5 MNAs and 3 MPAs of South Punjab resign from assemblies and leave PMLN

[Mian]

Looks like PMLN falling like house of cards

5 of their sitting MNA and 3 MPA resigned and left the party today formed their own group asking for another province based on South Punjab and i fully support their demand. We the northies also want another province far away from this takhte lahore.

 

[Mian]

I lost the count how many MNA and MPA left PMLN in last 2 months. You know your party is coming to end when people are even joining PPP at this stage when they are weak too (Not everyone can be accommodated in PTI because of tickets so some are joining PPP too from Punjab)

 

[Pakpak]

This news along with rumors of Nisar...PMLN are done for. They're breaking up every single day.

 

[Mian]

This news along with rumors of Nisar...PMLN are done for. They're breaking up every single day.

But according to Dawn, Geo and Jang and our liberal neutral analysts this is helping Nawaz narrative

 

[Pakpak]

But according to Dawn, Geo and Jang and our liberal neutral analysts this is helping Nawaz narrative

I am loving all the meltdown from all these traitors

 

[Mian]

I am loving all the meltdown from all these traitors

I love it when after every damage they try to cover it by saying "Nawaz Sharif ka bayaniya or maqbool ho raha he awaam main" i mean seriously? )

 

[yasir]

Its not in the DNA of Muslim League to fight the establishment. Muslim league since 1905, has always being King's party, with very little ideology, first it was ****, then Army and Co are making new Muslim league whenever they need. Muslim League was never about any ideology, they will flake to the will of the King, pretty easily. We have seen that in last 3/4 years, half of those lotas are moving around, now this will get at much faster rate.

With Zaradari heading PPP for a decade, PPP has become another Muslim league, PTI is already King's party. There is no anti establishment party ATM moment in the country. Grip of Army has only gone stronger, they have nothing to worry about, election or no election, their reign continues and is stronger than before, its 1980s all over again

 

[Mian]

Its not in the DNA of Muslim League to fight the establishment. Muslim league since 1905, has always being King's party, with very little ideology, first it was ****, then Army and Co are making new Muslim league whenever they need. Muslim League was never about any ideology, they will flake to the will of the King, pretty easily. We have seen that in last 3/4 years, half of those lotas are moving around, now this will get at much faster rate.

With Zaradari heading PPP for a decade, PPP has become another Muslim league, PTI is already King's party. There is no anti establishment party ATM moment in the country. Grip of Army has only gone stronger, they have nothing to worry about, election or no election, their reign continues and is stronger than before, its 1980s all over again

And than these Liberals and Atheists blame conservatives and common pakistanis for coming up with conspiracy theories and blaming west and uncle sam for all the wrongs

 

[Mian]

mods please fix the title and make it "MNAs" and then MPAs"

 

[Greenstorm]

I think that PTI will win next election but the real question is that will Imran khan be able to bring about massive reforms that we are all expecting ? With all these dubious electables joining PTI, it will not be easy.

 

[Mian]

I think that PTI will win next election but the real question is that will Imran khan be able to bring about massive reforms that we are all expecting ? With all these dubious electables joining PTI, it will not be easy.

PTI isn't going to have clear majority with all these new parties and alliances being made. MMA, PSP, BAP, Seraiki Group, Ch Nisar Group (if he dont joins PTI)

 

[yasir]

I think that PTI will win next election but the real question is that will Imran khan be able to bring about massive reforms that we are all expecting ? With all these dubious electables joining PTI, it will not be easy.

I am not sure why people are expecting massive change or revolution, when most of the lotas are joining PTI??

PTI supporters are happy, that they are getting those lota electable into their party, this will help IK win. They forget that if these lotas are helping IK to win, IK has to bow down to them, not the other way around. IK cannot claim to be a revolutionary party.

 

[Greenstorm]

PTI isn't going to have clear majority with all these new parties and alliances being made. MMA, PSP, BAP, Seraiki Group, Ch Nisar Group (if he dont joins PTI)

Yes but I think PTI will be in goverment with these groups as allies which means Imran will have to compromise even more.

 

[yasir]

And than these Liberals and Atheists blame conservatives and common pakistanis for coming up with conspiracy theories and blaming west and uncle sam for all the wrongs

I am not sure what is your point? - No matter how much you blame the west, at some point you have to start home, you have to go after the establishment which is running the country. Politicians has no power, you can keep this circus for another 20 years, but until you go after the real King, nothing significant will change.

 

[Mian]

I am not sure what is your point? - No matter how much you blame the west, at some point you have to start home, you have to go after the establishment which is running the country. Politicians has no power, you can keep this circus for another 20 years, but until you go after the real King, nothing significant will change.

My point is you guys are not better i have seen liberals coming up with more conspiracy theories (and than they blame others for for conspiracy theories). It looks like for liberal atheists all the evil in the country is because of the army

 

[Greenstorm]

I am not sure why people are expecting massive change or revolution, when most of the lotas are joining PTI??

PTI supporters are happy, that they are getting those lota electable into their party, this will help IK win. They forget that if these lotas are helping IK to win, IK has to bow down to them, not the other way around. IK cannot claim to be a revolutionary party.

Yes that is my worry. I believe that Imran Khan on personal level is way better than the alternatives but in this kind of mess, I am doubtful that he can bring any considerable change even if he becomes prime minister.

Anyways, something is better than nothing. Atleast we will have a leader who is not corrupt and is sincere to his country.

 

[Mian]

Yes but I think PTI will be in goverment with these groups as allies which means Imran will have to compromise even more.

Yea this remind me of 2008 when PPP needed PMLN first and than PMLQ

 

[Greenstorm]

I am not sure what is your point? - No matter how much you blame the west, at some point you have to start home, you have to go after the establishment which is running the country. Politicians has no power, you can keep this circus for another 20 years, but until you go after the real King, nothing significant will change.

Don't you think that Imran Khan as a person will be difficult to handle by the presumed kings as compared to Sharifs and Zardaris ?

 

[yasir]

My point is you guys are not better i have seen liberals coming up with more conspiracy theories (and than they blame others for for conspiracy theories). It looks like for liberal atheists all the evil in the country is because of the army

You got that part right One has to go after God Father, not his puppets or agents in order bring change...You cannot put Army and Religion is such a high esteem and assume culture will change, they are the one who drives the vision and culture of the country...

 

[Mian]

So called liberal and neutral dawn, jang, geo sahafis had no issues when Shahbaz used a forward block containing 50-60 MPAs of PMLQ (won on their ticket) to form Punjab govt from 2008 to 2013. They also had no issues when PMLN imported 90% of the PMLQ electables to form 2013-2018 govt in Federal and Punjab but aaj in sab ko jamhuryat yaad aa rae he? or yeh sab unfair lag raha he?

 

[yasir]

Don't you think that Imran Khan as a person will be difficult to handle by the presumed kings as compared to Sharifs and Zardaris ?

So far we have not seen IK's confrontation with Army or Mullas, he is willing to join hands with Zardari even. IK is already in his 60s, right now he is desperate to be a PM, his legacy is at stake, everybody expects him to be PM, anything short of that would be huge disappointment for him, he is running out of time...In IK Army is having another popular leader in their pocket, like NS and Benezir in past...Benazir was desperate back in 1988, she made mistakes of bringing corrupt politicians into her party, that did not worked for her or PPP. PPP was know for its work class leaders back in 70s, they slowly become another Muslim League, there was no difference between PPP and Anti-PPP, PTI is going the same route, many of his die heart supporter will realize soon, this is not something new, we have seen this before.

If he get power, his hands will be full, to stitch all the lotas, mullas and what not together, there is very little time for policy...Which is again a trick by establishment aka Army, Politicians are worry about so many other things, its hard for them to focus on policy. NS wanted to have stronger trade with India(he has been booted out twice for that), wanted to drive trade policy, only 5% of our trade is local in SAARC, 95% remote, where as in North America, US has ~$1T trade with CA and Mexico, which is 30% of all US trade, trading local creates a friendly ENV in the region, if we have to live here we have to work togather or strive for that... Law and order is another example, you cannot be supporting islamic military groups as an assets, this policy has failed us, but no politician can change those fundamental coarse correction required, only somebody inside the Army can drive the policy changes...Army is doubling down on Mullas, every year we are getting more extremist, Blasphemy laws has such a massive support now then 2 decades ago...

In KPK, IK did not had any revolutionary stand against Mullas, weather it was APS, Mishal Khan or other Blasphemy related issues. He purposely tried not to be involved in anything on those lines. I doubt IK would try to formulate trade, budget, foreign or defense policy anytime soon, so business as usual. In KPK, he even let Mullas drive the education policy. Confrontation will come, once IK has policy stands at some point, right now his stands are wishy washy, try not to push buttons of establishment.

IK is also not of intellectual type either or much of policy guy, Asad Umar drives most of it. Asad like Atizaz had intellect but not popular votes, these types of folks will never be the top leaders of the country unfortunately. We have to listen to him more to get an idea, if they will have any vision for the country

Many times IK looks confused, he talks about far left liberal Atheists states like Norway, Sweden as role model, yet he is in piece with Army and Mullas

 

[Mian]

IK is also not of intellectual type either or much of policy guy, Asad Umar drives most of it. Asad like Atizaz had intellect but not popular votes, these types of folks will never be the top leaders of the country unfortunately. We have to listen to him more to get an idea, if they will have any vision for the country

Asad joined politics on IK request otherwise he was having a great career as a CEO but he did really well in last 6 years of his political career by winning Islamabad and making it his constituency (he is from Karachi and lived there for most of his life). After Tareen currently Asad is the most popular leader in PTI and the PTI youth loves him and chances are high he will become the head of party if Tareen remains disqualified (in that case Tareen will support him instead of SMQ to be next party chief)

 

[Mian]

When these guys joined PMLN back in 2013

 

[Greenstorm]

So far we have not seen IK's confrontation with Army or Mullas, he is willing to join hands with Zardari even. IK is already in his 60s, right now he is desperate to be a PM, his legacy is at stake, everybody expects him to be PM, anything short of that would be huge disappointment for him, he is running out of time...In IK Army is having another popular leader in their pocket, like NS and Benezir in past...Benazir was desperate back in 1988, she made mistakes of bringing corrupt politicians into her party, that did not worked for her or PPP. PPP was know for its work class leaders back in 70s, they slowly become another Muslim League, there was no difference between PPP and Anti-PPP, PTI is going the same route, many of his die heart supporter will realize soon, this is not something new, we have seen this before.

If he get power, his hands will be full, to stitch all the lotas, mullas and what not together, there is very little time for policy...Which is again a trick by establishment aka Army, Politicians are worry about so many other things, its hard for them to focus on policy. NS wanted to have stronger trade with India(he has been booted out twice for that), wanted to drive trade policy, only 5% of our trade is local in SAARC, 95% remote, where as in North America, US has ~$1T trade with CA and Mexico, which is 30% of all US trade, trading local creates a friendly ENV in the region, if we have to live here we have to work togather or strive for that... Law and order is another example, you cannot be supporting islamic military groups as an assets, this policy has failed us, but no politician can change those fundamental coarse correction required, only somebody inside the Army can drive the policy changes...Army is doubling down on Mullas, every year we are getting more extremist, Blasphemy laws has such a massive support now then 2 decades ago...

In KPK, IK did not had any revolutionary stand against Mullas, weather it was APS, Mishal Khan or other Blasphemy related issues. He purposely tried not to be involved in anything on those lines. I doubt IK would try to formulate trade, budget, foreign or defense policy anytime soon, so business as usual. In KPK, he even let Mullas drive the education policy. Confrontation will come, once IK has policy stands at some point, right now his stands are wishy washy, try not to push buttons of establishment.

IK is also not of intellectual type either or much of policy guy, Asad Umar drives most of it. Asad like Atizaz had intellect but not popular votes, these types of folks will never be the top leaders of the country unfortunately. We have to listen to him more to get an idea, if they will have any vision for the country

Many times IK looks confused, he talks about far left liberal Atheists states like Norway, Sweden as role model, yet he is in piece with Army and Mullas

The type of confrontation you want from Imran against Army and Mullah is too far fetched and not entirely necessary. I know you will not agree and it will lead to another debate so peace.

 

[Pakpak]

When these guys joined PMLN back in 2013

But no today they are all lotays according to Maryam Aurangzeb

 

[Mian]

But no today they are all lotays according to Maryam Aurangzeb

Wo tommy wali misaal to aapne suni hogi

 

[Mian]

 

[Loralai]

[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] is completely spot on with his analysis here. Whilst I, like [MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] support the demand for another province in South Punjab (anyone who has visited places like Dera Ghazi Khan, Rajanpur, Rahimyar Khan will attest that this area is in serious need of help), there is no doubt that IK will not bring real change unless people understand and appreciate that he is being propped up by the 'third umpire', who he himself often references in speeches.

 

[yasir]

The type of confrontation you want from Imran against Army and Mullah is too far fetched and not entirely necessary. I know you will not agree and it will lead to another debate so peace.

Can you list what you expect or want IK to do on policy front, after coming to power?

 

[Waseem]

I am not sure why people are expecting massive change or revolution, when most of the lotas are joining PTI??

PTI supporters are happy, that they are getting those lota electable into their party, this will help IK win. They forget that if these lotas are helping IK to win, IK has to bow down to them, not the other way around. IK cannot claim to be a revolutionary party.

These lotas are reality of our subcontinent politics and even Mr Jinnah wouldn't be able to do much about it, even Fatima Jinah was humiliated by the lotas and Bhutto had to suffer as well.

Imran Khan has already confirmed that if PTI comes to power, Asad Umar will be the finance minister.

I would take cabinet of Imran Khan, Asad Umar, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, Malik Amin Aslam (Environmentalist and brain behind Billion tree project), Shafqat Mahmood, Arif Alvi, Ali Muhammad Khan, Murad Saeed over Nawaz/Maryam/Shahbaz, Ishaq Dar, Abid Sher Ali, Rana Sanaullah, Khawaja Saad, Khawaja Asif ANYDAY

These lotas are irrelevant, they just give you numbers to form the government otherwise most of them hardly contribute in parliament.

 

[Waseem]

I think that PTI will win next election but the real question is that will Imran khan be able to bring about massive reforms that we are all expecting ? With all these dubious electables joining PTI, it will not be easy.

Yes but I think PTI will be in goverment with these groups as allies which means Imran will have to compromise even more.

Unfortunately yes, no doubt he will need to compromise more. You have have to do assessment based on reality and what i have learned about Pakistan politics, Imran Khan stands about 5-10% chance of coming to power without making compromises which means he will be able to achieve most of his targets but with these electables and big names he has about 40-50% chance of getting power but he will not achieve as much. Problem is if you have 5-10% winning chance then even your honest party workers and loyalists won't stand with you for too long.

Don't you think that Imran Khan as a person will be difficult to handle by the presumed kings as compared to Sharifs and Zardaris ?

The type of confrontation you want from Imran against Army and Mullah is too far fetched and not entirely necessary. I know you will not agree and it will lead to another debate so peace.

Spot on! People who have absolutely no idea about on ground situation expect Imran Khan to not only fight the mafia likes of Nawaz/Zardari/Altaf have created over the decades but also confront Army and Mullahs as well.

Contrary to what people think, Army's role has decreased and will decrease overtime when we strengthen our institutions, only a fool will expect deal makers like Nawaz/Zardari to do anything like this.

 

[Greenstorm]

Can you list what you expect or want IK to do on policy front, after coming to power?

Army is not as powerful as it was when Musharraf imposed martial law. The emergence of electronic media and Judiciary means that army no longer has same kind of open playing field. Their influence can only be reduced further by strengthening other institutions.

This is where IK can come in handy. He can start by bringing reforms in our police system. This alone will result in a lot of improvement in different sectors. A strong police will mean that army's role in internal matters will diminish with the passage of time. From my observation, army only fills vacuum in Pakistan, the moment a strong institution emerges, it will retreat instead of resisting. I do not know much about economy but I am sure Asad Umar as finance minister will be a lot better than Ishaq Dar. Tax reforms should be top priority.

I expect Imran Khan to protect the sovereignty of Pakistan and to safeguard our own interests at all costs. I do not think he will have personal relations with people like Modi and he won't be meeting Indian businessman in secrecy. He as a leader will be much able to take tough decisions in matters of foreign policy because he will not be dependent on anyone. He does not has money in foreign bank accounts nor he will become prime minister by the help of so called "Kings" so I expect him to challenge whatever he feels is against Paksitan's interest.

 

[DW44]

The type of confrontation you want from Imran against Army and Mullah is too far fetched and not entirely necessary. I know you will not agree and it will lead to another debate so peace.

While it is far fetched, its not unnecessary by any stretch of the imagination. As long as the military has a vise grip on our political syatem and enjoys a position od power relative to the government, your PM and his government are essentially a rubber stamp government while the army drives the real policymaking. With IK, we have a repeat of MQM and IJI (original N league) and the man is clearly too stupid to learn from history or hed have seen how teamin gup with the military to get political power works out in the long run. Just see how it worked out for NS or Altaf. They too started off as army sponsored stooges to weaken the power of existing political players.

 

[Greenstorm]

While it is far fetched, its not unnecessary by any stretch of the imagination. As long as the military has a vise grip on our political syatem and enjoys a position od power relative to the government, your PM and his government are essentially a rubber stamp government while the army drives the real policymaking. With IK, we have a repeat of MQM and IJI (original N league) and the man is clearly too stupid to learn from history or hed have seen how teamin gup with the military to get political power works out in the long run. Just see how it worked out for NS or Altaf. They too started off as army sponsored stooges to weaken the power of existing political players.

I do not think that army is behind Imran if that was the case then he would have won 2013 election. Only thing that Imran expects from army is free and fair election.

 

[DW44]

I do not think that army is behind Imran if that was the case then he would have won 2013 election. Only thing that Imran expects from army is free and fair election.

By that token, NS should not have won since he was the army's enemy number one for ~20 years prior to that election. Fact is army stopped directly interfering in elections or any other matter that brings their interference in the political system in the spotlight. That is because it's largely irrelevant to them who's in power in Islamabad as long as their power is unchallenged. That said, whether or not one believes IK is army backed depends on two things: (a) Which camp you're in. If you're pro IK/PTI, you will never concede that IK is establishment backed and (b) Whether or not you're familiar with the party's early history (1993-1998, Hamid Gul years and all).

 

[Mian]

Iska koi checkup kerwao

 

[Greenstorm]

By that token, NS should not have won since he was the army's enemy number one for ~20 years prior to that election. Fact is army stopped directly interfering in elections or any other matter that brings their interference in the political system in the spotlight. That is because it's largely irrelevant to them who's in power in Islamabad as long as their power is unchallenged. That said, whether or not one believes IK is army backed depends on two things: (a) Which camp you're in. If you're pro IK/PTI, you will never concede that IK is establishment backed and (b) Whether or not you're familiar with the party's early history (1993-1998, Hamid Gul years and all).

If that is the case then how is army behind IK now ? Could not army have used same tactics that they are allegedly using now to support Imran Khan in 2013 when he had larger public support ?

You are right that Hameed Gull(the man you despise) was among those people that encouraged Imran Khan to join politics but Hameed unceremoniously got retired in 1993 so he had nothing to with army back then.

Whether or not one believe that Imran is army backed depend on two things.
a) If you are anti army/anti Islam than you will see them behind everything and will not believe in any alternate way other than complete neutralization of those two 'evils'.
b) If you are a Noora or a Patwari than in your love of Sharifs, you will see every opposition and every act against them as establishment's sazish.

 

[Waseem]

By that token, NS should not have won since he was the army's enemy number one for ~20 years prior to that election. Fact is army stopped directly interfering in elections or any other matter that brings their interference in the political system in the spotlight. That is because it's largely irrelevant to them who's in power in Islamabad as long as their power is unchallenged. That said, whether or not one believes IK is army backed depends on two things: (a) Which camp you're in. If you're pro IK/PTI, you will never concede that IK is establishment backed and (b) Whether or not you're familiar with the party's early history (1993-1998, Hamid Gul years and all).

The fact that he got 1 seat in first 17 years of his career pretty much proves how much role Hamid Gul types played in his politics. Lot of people wanted him to join politics including Zia, Nawaz Sharif, Gul etc but if he received any kind of support from them then surely they were powerful enough even in retirement to get him more than 1 seat.

 

[Bewal Express]

By that token, NS should not have won since he was the army's enemy number one for ~20 years prior to that election. Fact is army stopped directly interfering in elections or any other matter that brings their interference in the political system in the spotlight. That is because it's largely irrelevant to them who's in power in Islamabad as long as their power is unchallenged. That said, whether or not one believes IK is army backed depends on two things: (a) Which camp you're in. If you're pro IK/PTI, you will never concede that IK is establishment backed and (b) Whether or not you're familiar with the party's early history (1993-1998, Hamid Gul years and all).

On the one hand the establishment so powerful that it has taken on the attributes of an all powerful deity and on the other it is so incompetent that it led to him to win next to nothing for nearly 20 years. Which of these is true? As i said earlier, in your desperation to pin something on him, you are clutching at straws. IK is the only the only guy not out to make money from poor PK`s!

 

[Saeed]

What is going to happen to these MNAs and MPAs when and if PTI wins the upcoming general elections? Will they be deseated after they outlast their usefulness?

 

[Mian]

What is going to happen to these MNAs and MPAs when and if PTI wins the upcoming general elections? Will they be deseated after they outlast their usefulness?

This group is so far independent and didn't join any party maybe they will decide their future after the elections if they win.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Not necessarily a good thing, Citizen Kane anyone?

 

[Mian]

According to numbers 37 parliamentarians left PMLN so far