Abdur Rehman, Zulfiqar Babar, Nauman Ali and life after Yasir Shah

[zubair16]

Three left-arm orthodox bowlers brought into the test team relatively late into their First Class career. All three generally used as a support bowler to the front-line spinner (Danish Kaneria, Saeed Ajmal and Yasir Shah) and to keep things tight whilst taking a wicket or two. All three have shown to be capable with the bat. Although it's early days, I'm firstly very curious to see how people compare Nauman with Abdur Rehman and Zulfiqar - will he be more of the mould of a support bowler like Zulfiqar was or do we think he has that wicket taking ability like Abdur Rehman did?

Nauman has come into the team and shown how valuable first class experience is in test cricket. He is calm, patient and uses subtle variations to keep it tight and get the odd wicket. The low economy rate has been vital as Yasir does have a tendency to be quite expensive in recent times. We have tried a few support spinners to Yasir in recent times such as Bilal Asif, Mohammad Nawaz (more of an AR), Sajid Khan, Zafar Gohar and Shadab Khan (more of an AR). It can be easily argued that a lot of these bowlers haven't been given enough of a sample for them to be judge, and some of them will likely make their comeback at some point into the test team. Nauman Ali will likely stay around the team for a while but I fear his exit from the team may coincide with the exit of our front-line spinner. The question will be, do we have adequate replacements?

I still believe Yasir is our biggest match winner in the test team. You don't get 200 wickets as a leg spinner by being average. In the last 10 years no leg spinner comes close to Yasir in test matches. Bishoo of West Indies is the closest with 96 wickets therefore we have had a real gem in Yasir over these last 7 years. Whilst he is a match winner, nowadays when he isn't winning us a match he hasn't shown the capability to keep it tight due to bowling poor lines and/or poor captaincy (think Misbah's leg side field in Australia). Maybe he can keep himself fit, get his lines tight for when the ball isn't doing much and continue for a few years. But if he doesn't, who is ready to step in to be our front line spinner? Pakistan have a wonderful history of producing world class spinners who win matches on a regular basis. From Abdul Qadir to Mushtaq Ahmed to Saqlain Mushtaq to Danish Kaneria to Saeed Ajmal to Yasir Shah. Who will be next? Do we have someone that has the capability?

Nauman Ali has shown the benefit of having good first class experience. Our recent front-line spinners have both debuted relatively late (Ajmal and Yasir). Do we think our first class system has someone capable of taking on the mantle? Have we already debuted that person? I believe Shadab Khan and Mohammad Nawaz are more AR than front-line spinners. Maybe Zafar Gohar or Sajid Khan - are they good enough? Is there someone lurking in domestics such as a Zahid Mahmood, Ahmed Safi Abdullah, Mohammad Asghar?

Would love to know people's thoughts

 

[Rana]

I think Pakistan are planning to bring Zafar Gohar in when he is 34 years old

He is too young to be invested in as a Pakistani spinner according to these uncle standards

 

[Bewal Express]

The most talented spinner of the ball is Mohammed Asghar but he has fallen into the T20 trap without having the control of a T20 bowler.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

From all the uncles Abdul Rehman was the standout bowler. He was a frontline spinner in his own right and finished with a decent record. Babar started brightly but was quite poor towards the end and its too early to judge for Nauman,

I've not seen any standout bowlers in domestics and the spin cupboard is unfortunately looking very bare. Sajid Khan looked quite ordinary. I'm looking forward to seeing how Zafar gets on in his upcoming county stint. Hopefully he does enough to get noticed.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Looking at the bowlers in our domestic setup, nobody of note comes to mind.

Pakistan needs to move away from wrist-spinners in test cricket, this delusion that they are always attacking options won't help if the ones we have are mediocre at best.

A good finger-spinner is a pivotal aspect of most good test teams at the moment. When India thinks that Jadeja can hold their spin-bowling requirements and still win in England, it just proves how needless wrist-spinners are if you have good finger-spin bowling alternatives.

We need to think about this from two separate viewpoints. I like India's model the best: play two spin-bowling all-rounders in-home tests along with the main spinner if needed. Overseas in SENA, play your best batsman among those spinners. This mechanism splits the workload on a few different spinners and gives you more of a chance to fill your team with pacers overseas.

The other model is something that Australia would be following: play one frontline spinner regardless of the conditions with no other spinners on the team. This is to make sure that you have all your pacers in conditions that help, but it puts strain on the main spinner unless he's a finger-spinner who can bowl long overs.

For home series against NZ, ENG, and AUS, we will need to prepare pitches that offer considerable turn. Our model should be the following: two pacers being Shaheen and Hasan Ali, three reliable spin-bowling options of which one is Nauman Ali playing as the main spinner.

Alongside Nauman Ali, I can see Mohammad Nawaz fitting in, but the right-arm spin option is clearly missing. We need a quality right-arm finger spinner who can also bat, but we don't have that type of quality within the ranks. Therefore, we would need to either play Nauman Ali as a bowling all-rounder (which I don't like), and have someone like Sajid Khan or Mohammad Asghar as our right-arm finger spinner. Mohammad Nawaz would be competing with Zafar Gohar, and I think both should suffice well with Zafar seeming like the better batsman, but Nawaz being the better bowler.

A notable omission is Yasir Shah, who I would keep with the team but after he has recovered from his rustiness and his injury (which it's quite evident has impacted his bowling).

 

[Titan24]

I dont think anyone said Yasir was mediocre rather he was a world class operator and right up there with the best spinners of the world especially in surfaces which assisted him. However in last 2-3 years his numbers are really mediocre especially in overseas conditions, he have had back as well as hip issues during this time and his lack of effort to work in his fitness have impacted his pivot and thus spin. He relied heavily on his stock ball which was leg spinner and then throwing in some flippers and sliders to get the batsmen bowled and lbw as well. However, with the lack of spin on his stock ball especially on less assistive surfaces his other varieties have become less effective as well.

You don’t really need to have a leggie to call him the main spinner. In the last decade statistically the most successful type of spinners in test cricket have been finger spinners be it Lyon, Ashwin, Jadeja, Ajmal, Hearath etc. Only Ajmal out of them had dosra and maybe one can say Ashwin has carrom ball, rest had pretty conventional variations and they were good at it.

However, as per management’s thought process they have Zahid Mehmood as a specialist leg spinner replacement of Yasir if they really need a leggy. Shadab is in the radar, if he can perform in upcoming QAE with his bowling he can also find himself in the squad. There is Abrar Ahmed as well who is trying to find his feet at QAE main competition.

Faisal Akram (Chinamen) has been rated highly since his younger days and troubled Pak nationals in the camp and is someone who if all goes well is being looked at as possibly the next big wrist spinner in Pak cricket. He is currently with U19 team and will take few seasons of FC cricket to be possibly ready for top level cricket.

There are decent amount of finger spinners going on as well like you mentioned but, Nauman is currently looking like a decent option. Some young ones and are waiting for their opportunities in QAE like Aliyan Mehmood (Off spinner), Aarish Ali (SLA) etc.

 

[Bewal Express]

Looking at the bowlers in our domestic setup, nobody of note comes to mind.

Pakistan needs to move away from wrist-spinners in test cricket, this delusion that they are always attacking options won't help if the ones we have are mediocre at best.

A good finger-spinner is a pivotal aspect of most good test teams at the moment. When India thinks that Jadeja can hold their spin-bowling requirements and still win in England, it just proves how needless wrist-spinners are if you have good finger-spin bowling alternatives.

We need to think about this from two separate viewpoints. I like India's model the best: play two spin-bowling all-rounders in-home tests along with the main spinner if needed. Overseas in SENA, play your best batsman among those spinners. This mechanism splits the workload on a few different spinners and gives you more of a chance to fill your team with pacers overseas.

The other model is something that Australia would be following: play one frontline spinner regardless of the conditions with no other spinners on the team. This is to make sure that you have all your pacers in conditions that help, but it puts strain on the main spinner unless he's a finger-spinner who can bowl long overs.

For home series against NZ, ENG, and AUS, we will need to prepare pitches that offer considerable turn. Our model should be the following: two pacers being Shaheen and Hasan Ali, three reliable spin-bowling options of which one is Nauman Ali playing as the main spinner.

Alongside Nauman Ali, I can see Mohammad Nawaz fitting in, but the right-arm spin option is clearly missing. We need a quality right-arm finger spinner who can also bat, but we don't have that type of quality within the ranks. Therefore, we would need to either play Nauman Ali as a bowling all-rounder (which I don't like), and have someone like Sajid Khan or Mohammad Asghar as our right-arm finger spinner. Mohammad Nawaz would be competing with Zafar Gohar, and I think both should suffice well with Zafar seeming like the better batsman, but Nawaz being the better bowler.

A notable omission is Yasir Shah, who I would keep with the team but after he has recovered from his rustiness and his injury (which it's quite evident has impacted his bowling).

Asghar is left arm

 

[UzmanBeast]

Asghar is left arm

Ah okay.

So Nauman, Nawaz, Asghar, Gohar are all left-armers.

Only Sajid Khan to my knowledge is a right-arm finger spinner.

Shadab Khan, Zahid Mahmood, and Yasir Shah are wrist-spinners.

Faisal Akram is a chinaman but too undercooked.

Abrar Ahmed is a mystery spinner (both leg-spin and off-spin) but he is also too young.

Iftikhar Ahmed is a right-arm off-spinner albeit not a good one.

 

[UzmanBeast]

I dont think anyone said Yasir was mediocre rather he was a world class operator and right up there with the best spinners of the world especially in surfaces which assisted him. However in last 2-3 years his numbers are really mediocre especially in overseas conditions, he have had back as well as hip issues during this time and his lack of effort to work in his fitness have impacted his pivot and thus spin. He relied heavily on his stock ball which was leg spinner and then throwing in some flippers and sliders to get the batsmen bowled and lbw as well. However, with the lack of spin on his stock ball especially on less assistive surfaces his other varieties have become less effective as well.

You don’t really need to have a leggie to call him the main spinner. In the last decade statistically the most successful type of spinners in test cricket have been finger spinners be it Lyon, Ashwin, Jadeja, Ajmal, Hearath etc. Only Ajmal out of them had dosra and maybe one can say Ashwin has carrom ball, rest had pretty conventional variations and they were good at it.

However, as per management’s thought process they have Zahid Mehmood as a specialist leg spinner replacement of Yasir if they really need a leggy. Shadab is in the radar, if he can perform in upcoming QAE with his bowling he can also find himself in the squad. There is Abrar Ahmed as well who is trying to find his feet at QAE main competition.

Faisal Akram (Chinamen) has been rated highly since his younger days and troubled Pak nationals in the camp and is someone who if all goes well is being looked at as possibly the next big wrist spinner in Pak cricket. He is currently with U19 team and will take few seasons of FC cricket to be possibly ready for top level cricket.

There are decent amount of finger spinners going on as well like you mentioned but, Nauman is currently looking like a decent option. Some young ones and are waiting for their opportunities in QAE like Aliyan Mehmood (Off spinner), Aarish Ali (SLA) etc.

I agree with what you said, but the issue is that too many finger-spinners are inexperienced. We have practically no frontline right-arm finger-spinners in the system, though we have a few all-rounders.

If I were to group them (including all-rounders), this would be the tier list:

Tier 1: International Standard Frontline Bowlers
1) Yasir Shah (LB)
2) Nauman Ali (SLA)

Tier 2: International Standard All-Rounders
1) Mohammad Nawaz (SLA)

Tier 3: Domestic Standard Frontline Bowlers
1) Zahid Mahmood (LB)
2) Sajid Khan (RA)
3) Mohammad Asghar (SLA)

Tier 4: Inexperienced or Inconsistent All-Rounders
1) Shadab Khan (LB)
2) Iftikhar Ahmed (RA)
3) Qasim Akram (RA)
4) Zafar Gohar (SLA)

Tier 5: Inexperienced Frontline Bowlers
1) Faisal Akram (chinaman)
2) Abrar Ahmed (mystery)

There aren't many good options to select as most are inexperienced or too inconsistent.

Nauman is fine for now, but we will need to identify replacements soon. I think the management should get Faisal Akram into FC Cricket as soon as possible to see what he can produce.

 

[Bewal Express]

Ah okay.

So Nauman, Nawaz, Asghar, Gohar are all left-armers.

Only Sajid Khan to my knowledge is a right-arm finger spinner.

Shadab Khan, Zahid Mahmood, and Yasir Shah are wrist-spinners.

Faisal Akram is a chinaman but too undercooked.

Abrar Ahmed is a mystery spinner (both leg-spin and off-spin) but he is also too young.

Iftikhar Ahmed is a right-arm off-spinner albeit not a good one.

Nauman is solid and doesn't bowl rubbish
Yasir is on his last legs but could do a job on low, slow wickets
Sajid from what I saw bowls under cutters and didn't look like a international bowler.
Zafar is dreadful and is barely FC
Shadad is going backwards at a rate of knots, has a poor release and should be no where near the PK team
Zahid has missed the boat
Abrar has no mystery for good players and struggled to find the correct pace in the games I saw.

 

[Titan24]

I agree with what you said, but the issue is that too many finger-spinners are inexperienced. We have practically no frontline right-arm finger-spinners in the system, though we have a few all-rounders.

If I were to group them (including all-rounders), this would be the tier list:

Tier 1: International Standard Frontline Bowlers
1) Yasir Shah (LB)
2) Nauman Ali (SLA)

Tier 2: International Standard All-Rounders
1) Mohammad Nawaz (SLA)

Tier 3: Domestic Standard Frontline Bowlers
1) Zahid Mahmood (LB)
2) Sajid Khan (RA)
3) Mohammad Asghar (SLA)

Tier 4: Inexperienced or Inconsistent All-Rounders
1) Shadab Khan (LB)
2) Iftikhar Ahmed (RA)
3) Qasim Akram (RA)
4) Zafar Gohar (SLA)

Tier 5: Inexperienced Frontline Bowlers
1) Faisal Akram (chinaman)
2) Abrar Ahmed (mystery)

There aren't many good options to select as most are inexperienced or too inconsistent.

Nauman is fine for now, but we will need to identify replacements soon. I think the management should get Faisal Akram into FC Cricket as soon as possible to see what he can produce.

Agreed. I think that is why we are seeing Zahid and Sajid in the main squad as they have some experience and wickets behind them. I would personally put Shadab in the Tier 2 alongside Nawaz, I think he has the basics and the variety to be a decent enough leg spinner just needs to put in the hard yards to get the accuracy going. While Zafar isnt bowling as well as he should have been by now but, to be honest debuting a spinner in NZ was a really tough ask, he will have to create impact in this QAE season.

This year's QAE season would be really important for some other guys as well. However, it will coincide with World T20 as well as BD tour. Still I hope that guys like Shadab and Nawaz who play white ball cricket for Pak can get some games and bowl good amount of overs in QAE.

Faisal Akram should play the U19 WC next year and then should be inducted to the main team of SP (He has played U19 for them) or some other region in domestic cricket.

 

[zubair16]

One of the worries I have, and I'm sure plenty of others have, is the lack of domestic first class experience some of our players are getting. How can we expect someone like Shadab Khan to develop into a test match quality front-line spinner if he is busy with international duty whilst the Quaid-e-Azam is occurring.

It's a problem we have with a lot of our players who a regular-ish with the white ball team who have potential to play red ball cricket for Pakistan (like an Imam ul Haq, Abdullah Shaffique, Mohammad Hasnain, etc). As seen by Fawad Alam, Nauman Ali and Hasan Ali when he was injured, first class cricket experience is vital for performance

I was quite pleased to see Zafar Gohar getting picked up by Gloucestershire, not only for the experience in alien conditions, but for him to just play more first class cricket

 

[zubair16]

Would you add Agha Salman to that list - possibly to 4?

 

[zubair16]

I agree with what you said, but the issue is that too many finger-spinners are inexperienced. We have practically no frontline right-arm finger-spinners in the system, though we have a few all-rounders.

If I were to group them (including all-rounders), this would be the tier list:

Tier 1: International Standard Frontline Bowlers
1) Yasir Shah (LB)
2) Nauman Ali (SLA)

Tier 2: International Standard All-Rounders
1) Mohammad Nawaz (SLA)

Tier 3: Domestic Standard Frontline Bowlers
1) Zahid Mahmood (LB)
2) Sajid Khan (RA)
3) Mohammad Asghar (SLA)

Tier 4: Inexperienced or Inconsistent All-Rounders
1) Shadab Khan (LB)
2) Iftikhar Ahmed (RA)
3) Qasim Akram (RA)
4) Zafar Gohar (SLA)

Tier 5: Inexperienced Frontline Bowlers
1) Faisal Akram (chinaman)
2) Abrar Ahmed (mystery)

There aren't many good options to select as most are inexperienced or too inconsistent.

Nauman is fine for now, but we will need to identify replacements soon. I think the management should get Faisal Akram into FC Cricket as soon as possible to see what he can produce.

Would you add Agha Salman to that list - possibly to 4?

 

[Extra_Cover]

Ever since domination of Abdul Qadir, Pakistan has had a strong degree of attachment with leg spinners and genuinely believe them to be their trump cards. Imran Khan has been a very vocal supporter of leg spinners and so is Ramiz Raja, Wasim Akram, Inzi and Misbah. Its engraved in our mindset to give leg spinners priority over finger spinners.

This is the sole reason why we see long ropes being given to likes of Kaneria and Yasir Shah whilst the likes of Nauman Ali, Zulfiqar Babar and Abdur Rehman has to put long yards in first class before getting a nod.

Test cricket has evolved over the last 25 or more years whereby leg spinners are not genuinely regarded as trump cards unless they are superior bowlers to their counterparts. We have already seen in Asian and turning conditions the finger spinners are more effective hence we have to drop this association and preference to leg spinners.

 

[Titan24]

One of the worries I have, and I'm sure plenty of others have, is the lack of domestic first class experience some of our players are getting. How can we expect someone like Shadab Khan to develop into a test match quality front-line spinner if he is busy with international duty whilst the Quaid-e-Azam is occurring.

Yes thats definitely worrying. The reason is that some players like Shadab were selected too early for the national team and thus due to their whiteball commitments they couldn't the necessary red ball experience under their belt.

Not only it limits the development it also minimizes opportunities for them to make a test claim. Just like Shadab, Imam and few others couldnt play QAE to make a claim for test cricket.

I think its the issue with some other teams as well in modern day cricket where most national players of any format are rarely available for the FC competition.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Agreed. I think that is why we are seeing Zahid and Sajid in the main squad as they have some experience and wickets behind them. I would personally put Shadab in the Tier 2 alongside Nawaz, I think he has the basics and the variety to be a decent enough leg spinner just needs to put in the hard yards to get the accuracy going. While Zafar isnt bowling as well as he should have been by now but, to be honest debuting a spinner in NZ was a really tough ask, he will have to create impact in this QAE season.

This year's QAE season would be really important for some other guys as well. However, it will coincide with World T20 as well as BD tour. Still I hope that guys like Shadab and Nawaz who play white ball cricket for Pak can get some games and bowl good amount of overs in QAE.

Faisal Akram should play the U19 WC next year and then should be inducted to the main team of SP (He has played U19 for them) or some other region in domestic cricket.

Shadab for me hasn't had enough of an impact with the ball in test cricket to be included in that category.

His batting is useful, but his bowling is not convincing. He is in need of bowling long spells in the QEA Trophy before I consider him to be ready for international level test cricket.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Would you add Agha Salman to that list - possibly to 4?

Yes, I think he can be included as he is the best batsman out of all of them, but his bowling is more like that of a part-timer.

His fielding is questionable as well.

 

[Titan24]

Shadab for me hasn't had enough of an impact with the ball in test cricket to be included in that category.

His batting is useful, but his bowling is not convincing. He is in need of bowling long spells in the QEA Trophy before I consider him to be ready for international level test cricket.

We have to take into account that Shadab is yet to play in sub continent and thats a big stats and impact enhancer for the spinners. He has only played in overseas tests so far and that too in conditions where there isnt that much of assistance for spinners (Eng, Ireland, SA, WI). His numbers arent the worst if we compare him some other spinners around.

When you look at the variations Shadab has at this age if he can work on his accuracy along with flight and pace variations by playing 4 day cricket he can be a handy option. I agree he needs to play 4 day cricket, its a shame he has not been able to play for one reason or another.

 

[Zaz]

Have to agree this obsession pakistan has with leggies isnt healthy More often than not they have played them come what may

You pick the best spinner in the country not the best leggie

As we have seen in the past from rehman, nauman etc a good left arm orthodox bowler can do as good a job as the leggies and throw in the added bonus of offering control and keeping things tight

 

[Bewal Express]

DRS and the rise in the skill levels of finger spinners has totally changed the balance between finger and leg spinners.

 

[hitthestump]

I can't think of any spinner who will definitely be good enough to play international cricket, let alone any to feel genuinely excited about.

Spin bowling in Pakistan is going the same way as everything else. There is zero talent coming through.

 

[UzmanBeast]

We have to take into account that Shadab is yet to play in sub continent and thats a big stats and impact enhancer for the spinners. He has only played in overseas tests so far and that too in conditions where there isnt that much of assistance for spinners (Eng, Ireland, SA, WI). His numbers arent the worst if we compare him some other spinners around.

When you look at the variations Shadab has at this age if he can work on his accuracy along with flight and pace variations by playing 4 day cricket he can be a handy option. I agree he needs to play 4 day cricket, its a shame he has not been able to play for one reason or another.

For me, Shadab has a stake in the test team in the future, but he needs to work on his fitness and bowling.

Overseas, you don't need a specialist spinner, you need to prolong your tail and fit as many fast-bowlers as possible.

Shadab gives you a reliable option of spin-bowling along with good batting, which is what we need on overseas tours, especially to places like New Zealand and Australia.

He needs to stop going to T20 Leagues and take advantage of a full QEA Trophy. If he scores a few 50s or a hundred or two, and takes wickets, I can guarantee that he'll be an automatic selection.

 

[criclover2311]

Who should be the Spinners in coming home trst cycle.(WTC-AUS,ENG,Nz))

With Yasir Shah out, We need frontman who will create wicket taking opportunities continously. Said is alright as second spinner, because good teams will eventually figure him out, Nauman just does not looks like international quality, we saw how Tajiul bowled in two tests compared to him.

What we need is orthodox spinner who uses the air and pitch conditions well and is good with line and length, in short another Yasir shah/abdur rehman/Zulfiqar Babar.

 

[Shafi]

Zafar Gohar should be first choice spinner.

 

[shamaan]

With Yasir Shah out, We need frontman who will create wicket taking opportunities continously. Said is alright as second spinner, because good teams will eventually figure him out, Nauman just does not looks like international quality, we saw how Tajiul bowled in two tests compared to him.

What we need is orthodox spinner who uses the air and pitch conditions well and is good with line and length, in short another Yasir shah/abdur rehman/Zulfiqar Babar.

I think he needs someone who can contain runs.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Zafar Gohar 1000%