What's new

Anti-India protests erupt in held Kashmir as Indian troops kill 17

The catalans werent fighting with AK 47s Grenades etc etc. They were demanding freedom via a peaceful referendum. Even that was not allowed and the Catalan PM is on the run.

Nice try, equating terrorists with Catalan demonstrators.
Fistly, you're the one who brought the comparison with Catalonia into the discussion. Secondly, are you claiming that the vast majority of Kashmiris are terrorists because they support separation from India? So which is it? That the vast majority of Kashmiris are Indian civilians (and thus should not have the Indian Army on active deployment within an Indian state - Kashmir? Or as is the case, the vast majority of Kashmiris don't regard themselves as Indians, and neither does the Indian government, hence why it's deployed the Indian Army as an occupying force in the state of Kashmir? Like I said, Police (and sometimes National Guard) maintain internal law and order. Armies fight external foes and/or occupy foreign lands.
 
Fistly, you're the one who brought the comparison with Catalonia into the discussion. Secondly, are you claiming that the vast majority of Kashmiris are terrorists because they support separation from India? So which is it? That the vast majority of Kashmiris are Indian civilians (and thus should not have the Indian Army on active deployment within an Indian state - Kashmir? Or as is the case, the vast majority of Kashmiris don't regard themselves as Indians, and neither does the Indian government, hence why it's deployed the Indian Army as an occupying force in the state of Kashmir? Like I said, Police (and sometimes National Guard) maintain internal law and order. Armies fight external foes and/or occupy foreign lands.

The example of Catalonia was to tell you how strongly secession is dealt with.

The Indian Army is there to fight the terrorists who are funded,armed and trained by a neighbouring country.

The same terrorists who killed 100s of Kashmiri pandits and forced 100s of 1000s to flee the valley.

Hope now you are clear why Indian Army is there.

Can you tell me why is Pak Army deployed in Balochistan or Waziristan or FATA? Some say even in KPK. Are they occupying forces in a foreign land? I have even heard helicopter gunships and F16s being used.
 
The example of Catalonia was to tell you how strongly secession is dealt with.

The Indian Army is there to fight the terrorists who are funded,armed and trained by a neighbouring country.

The same terrorists who killed 100s of Kashmiri pandits and forced 100s of 1000s to flee the valley.

Hope now you are clear why Indian Army is there.
In civilised western countries (of which I'm a citizen of and where I live), police and specialist police units, and not the British Army, together with the help of internal intelligence services (eg Mi5), are the ones who fight terrorism. Are you suggesting that India is not a civilised country that aspires to hold standards akin to those of Western countries?

Can you tell me why is Pak Army deployed in Balochistan or Waziristan or FATA? Some say even in KPK. Are they occupying forces in a foreign land? I have even heard helicopter gunships and F16s being used.
No I cannot tell you why Pakistan army is deployed in Balochistan. This thread is about Indian occupied Kashmir. If you wish to discuss why Pakistan army is deployed in Balochistan, then I suggest you open a thread on the topic rather than trying to derail this one..
 
In civilised western countries (of which I'm a citizen of and where I live), police and specialist police units, and not the British Army, together with the help of internal intelligence services (eg Mi5), are the ones who fight terrorism. Are you suggesting that India is not a civilised country that aspires to hold standards akin to those of Western countries?

No I cannot tell you why Pakistan army is deployed in Balochistan. This thread is about Indian occupied Kashmir. If you wish to discuss why Pakistan army is deployed in Balochistan, then I suggest you open a thread on the topic rather than trying to derail this one..

1. India is a big country with a 1.3bn population a 2.5tn economy.Unlike some small country we do not copy other countries rather we develop our own system that works in our environment. I find no reason why India should follow the security system in UK. Or why India should follow the US system where they can detain people for months without a trial on suspicion. We follow our own system.

2.You cannot tell because it exposes your hypocrisy. Its enjoyable to see you talk about Catalonia or UK but squirm and avoid talking about Pakistan. Go first make Pakistan civilised and then we can talk about India.
 
Indians who support their brave and professional army in murdering/attacking defenceless children have no grounds to talk about a civilised society.
 
The ignorance of the Indian Army, and worse; the people, the educated citizens of India is downright despicable. Ignorance can further be divided into two sub-topics:

1) The fact that Indians - out of blind patriotism - support this. Absolutely disgusting.

2) That the Army and both the people fail to recognize, such unrest is only going to come back to bite them.

Mark my words, it will not be long before IoK is independent. "Independence" does not mean a part of Pakistan - only nothing to do with India.

And soon to follow will be the undying Khalistan movement.
 
Pakistanis of all people crying for Kashmir's independence is the most hilarious hypocrisy ever witnessed by mankind.

It was them who invaded Kashmir back in 1947 when it was independent in the first place. History doesn't lie.
 
The ignorance of the Indian Army, and worse; the people, the educated citizens of India is downright despicable. Ignorance can further be divided into two sub-topics:

1) The fact that Indians - out of blind patriotism - support this. Absolutely disgusting.

2) That the Army and both the people fail to recognize, such unrest is only going to come back to bite them.

Mark my words, it will not be long before IoK is independent. "Independence" does not mean a part of Pakistan - only nothing to do with India.

And soon to follow will be the undying Khalistan movement.
There are higher chances of earth collapsing than any inch of land going anywhere....we all want khalistan to be created in whole india with lahore its capital.And it will surely happen one day.
Kashmir is not going anywhere for sure..justice has to be served to kashmiri pandits and mother nature balances everything for sure.
 
RIP to every life that was lost, soldiers from my country and the civilians. Both India and Pakistan have blood on their hands, Pakistan for instigating it and using Kashmiris as pawns on a chess board and Indian army even though they were acting on self defense they still murdered their citizens..............
 
The ignorance of the Indian Army, and worse; the people, the educated citizens of India is downright despicable. Ignorance can further be divided into two sub-topics:

1) The fact that Indians - out of blind patriotism - support this. Absolutely disgusting.

2) That the Army and both the people fail to recognize, such unrest is only going to come back to bite them.

Mark my words, it will not be long before IoK is independent. "Independence" does not mean a part of Pakistan - only nothing to do with India.

And soon to follow will be the undying Khalistan movement.

With posts like these, I understand why Pakistan is in the mess it is in and going backwards... Well done...
 
2.You cannot tell because it exposes your hypocrisy. Its enjoyable to see you talk about Catalonia or UK but squirm and avoid talking about Pakistan. Go first make Pakistan civilised and then we can talk about India.
Why do you have a fixation with trying to get posters, who are western citizens living in the west, into discussions about Pakistan in a thread about India? Like I've said, if you feel the need to discuss Pakistan then start a thread on the topic. And if it's interesting enough, then I might participate and post on it, or I might not. You need to see a doctor my friend. This fixation you have of trying to get western based posters to discuss/bring Pakistan into every thread about India is not good for your health.
 
In civilised western countries (of which I'm a citizen of and where I live), police and specialist police units, and not the British Army, together with the help of internal intelligence services (eg Mi5), are the ones who fight terrorism. Are you suggesting that India is not a civilised country that aspires to hold standards akin to those of Western countries?

No I cannot tell you why Pakistan army is deployed in Balochistan. This thread is about Indian occupied Kashmir. If you wish to discuss why Pakistan army is deployed in Balochistan, then I suggest you open a thread on the topic rather than trying to derail this one..

I have no idea why Indians bring in western nations as a comparison point, can you imagine a western country's army strapping a youth to an army vehicle to drive through that youth's region? Then further having that action endorsed by a govt connected t-shirt campaign which was found so offensive that when the image was posted here it was removed by the mods? Yet Indian posters will defend this childish behaviour to the hilt while laughably comparing themselves to the west. In another hundred years maybe.
 
Does anyone in the world believe in the Pakistani narrative? Wonder if anyone supports the LeT JeM Hizbul etc except for one nation.

Pakistani narrative starts with their media reports and ends with people crying in green forums. Too bad rest of the world doesn't believe in celebrating terrorists as heroes.
 
I have no idea why Indians bring in western nations as a comparison point, can you imagine a western country's army strapping a youth to an army vehicle to drive through that youth's region? Then further having that action endorsed by a govt connected t-shirt campaign which was found so offensive that when the image was posted here it was removed by the mods? Yet Indian posters will defend this childish behaviour to the hilt while laughably comparing themselves to the west. In another hundred years maybe.

The reason why Indians like to compare with the West is due to the - fair and lovely - stigma attached with British rule. We never see or hear a Pakistani lookup to the British.
 
Pakistani narrative starts with their media reports and ends with people crying in green forums. Too bad rest of the world doesn't believe in celebrating terrorists as heroes.

57cbfb1812abf.jpg


e3dd2af6919149a98ff8e8b80a96e01b--indian-army-palestine.jpg


f89730a79bec111161f46083cc7da079--indian-army-little-people.jpg
 
The reason why Indians like to compare with the West is due to the - fair and lovely - stigma attached with British rule. We never see or hear a Pakistani lookup to the British.

And what exactly are the millions of Pakistanis living in the West, and millions who still want to escape to the West looking up to, may I ask?
 
And what exactly are the millions of Pakistanis living in the West, and millions who still want to escape to the West looking up to, may I ask?

Living in the West and looking up to the West for approval are 2 distinct aspects. I doubt Indians will ever realise the difference.
 
That's how army vs mob ends up, anywhere in India or anywhere in the world.

do these kids looks like terrorists to you ? do they deserve to die like this becoz they were throwing stones on your brave soldiers and your soldiers tiny ego gt hurt ? YES or NO
 
Indian High Commissioner calls on NSA Janjua to discuss worsening situation in Kashmir

Indian High Commissioner Ajay Bisaria called on National Security Adviser (NSA) Retired Lt General Nasser Khan Janjua on Tuesday to discuss the recently worsening situation in Indian-held Kashmir, read a statement issued by the office of NSA.

The NSA said Pakistan is pursuing a policy of friendly relations with its neighbouring countries including India, and that "normalcy of relations are always a top priority".

"Pakistan is committed to resolving all outstanding issues through comprehensive dialogues," Janjua was quoted as saying.

Janjua expressed concern over the "ongoing human rights violations in India-held Kashmir", saying that the "use of force alone can lead us nowhere".

"Rather, it diminishes hope, injures the society and further worsens the fragile situation," the adviser said.

“Pakistan is deeply committed to the cause of Kashmir and supports to resolve this issue politically and according to the aspirations of Kashmiri people. The process of dialogue is the only way forward to resolve our disputes. It is by way of peaceful resolution of our disputes that can enable both the countries to belong to the future,” read the statement.

In response, the envoy acknowledged that Pakistan and India need to improve bilateral relations, and said, “Both countries have immense potential to improve the relationship, and cater to each other’s needs.”

Bisaria also suggested taking small steps to improve bilateral relations including the exchange of prisoners, visits of medical teams and trade initiatives.

“We can build on these small steps and take the relationship towards normalcy to address the bigger issues,” the Indian envoy was quoted as saying.


https://www.dawn.com/news/1399329/i...jua-to-discuss-worsening-situation-in-kashmir
 
What was the point of this meeting? Does the high commissioner actually has something to offer, something like resumption of dialogue etc?

The worthy High Commissioner wants trade which suits India but his country won't play a cricket match with Pakistan even in the UAE deserts.
 
Your state has insurgency as well.

My foot! All those morons were squashed by the army back in the 80's and 90's. We Assamese people hated those scoundrels back them, we hate them now. We're proud Indians, will always be forever.
 
I have no idea why Indians bring in western nations as a comparison point, can you imagine a western country's army strapping a youth to an army vehicle to drive through that youth's region? Then further having that action endorsed by a govt connected t-shirt campaign which was found so offensive that when the image was posted here it was removed by the mods?

You need to read a bit on how the Americans treated the captured terrorists in Guantanamo Bay and how the British treated the captured IRA terrorists. Compared to this, the way Indian security personnel treat Kashmiri terrorists is more like a walk in the park.

So much for the West.
 
My foot! All those morons were squashed by the army back in the 80's and 90's. We Assamese people hated those scoundrels back them, we hate them now. We're proud Indians, will always be forever.

Does not matter is you hate or support them. Point is you have insurgents in Assam.
 
Same story, different day. Pakistan and India have done more harm to the people of Kashmir than they've done good. But lunatics from both sides will devalue human life just because it doesn't fit their narrative. It's pathetic how things have gotten to this point with no sign of improvements in the near future.
 
Remember folks, Pakistan was happy for Kashmir to be independent, but it was India that refused by not agreeing to the standstill agreement, and in returne parked their army on the Kashmiri border. India then got out played and ran crying to the UN for help.
 
Remember folks, Pakistan was happy for Kashmir to be independent, but it was India that refused by not agreeing to the standstill agreement, and in returne parked their army on the Kashmiri border. India then got out played and ran crying to the UN for help.

Namak,

Indian Kashmir will always be India's, forever till the end of man kind, you know it, I know it, the whole world that dont give 2 hoots about Kashmiri's know it. If your delusional chest thumping on the keyboard brings you inner peace, so be it, type and believe what your heart desires.
 
An Aussie concerned about Kashmir is like the Indian army concerned about defenseless unarmed children.

Someone will run to Google and read up on the standstill agreement for sure.

:)
 
Opinion: For how long can New Delhi justify the killing of civilians in Kashmir?
Three parallel encounters in South Kashmir on Sunday have left behind a trail of blood: 13 local militants, four civilians and three soldiers were killed in the span of a few hours. Government forces celebrated the operation, the largest in a decade, as a major success against militants whose presence has seen a rapid increase in Kashmir in general and South Kashmir in particular.

But first, the term “encounter” needs to be interrogated. Online dictionaries have started listing a separate meaning for the word in the South Asian context: “A violent incident in which a suspected criminal is killed by a member of the police, especially under controversial circumstances.”

In Kashmir, the word has come to signify, more often than not, a carefully planned operation with coordination between various security forces, the police, the Army and the Central Reserve Police Force. According to the police, the standard operating procedure demands that forces closing in on a target ask the militants to surrender. In most cases, however, these operations end with death.

After Sunday’s gunfights, police officials also spoke of a change in strategy – operations launched late at night and finished by first light in order to minimise civilian casualties. Reportedly, security agency records speak of “search and destroy” operations conducted in the last few months.

Even when used in the South Asian sense, the term “encounter” seems inadequate to describe the violence in Kashmir. Almost every operation seems to follow a pattern that has become a ritual, from the search operations and the laying of the security cordons, to the opening of fire and the protests by civilians, to burnt houses and bodies and vast public funerals.

Do these encounters help in bringing peace, or have they pushed Kashmir into a situation where violence has become a norm?

Up in arms

The phenomenal increase in militancy, especially local militancy, has brought the situation back to square one. From a few dozen militants, mostly foreigners, in 2013, the numbers have swelled to 300. Moreover, local militants outnumber foreigners. This has led to involvement of the civilian population in any operation that targets militants.

In 2016, Hizbul Mujahideen commander Burhan Wani, described as the poster boy of militancy, was killed and the unrest that followed claimed nearly 100 civilian lives. A dead Wani proved to be a more effective mobiliser for militancy, just like Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front founder Maqbool Butt, hanged in 1984, and Afzal Guru, hanged in 2013.

If Guru’s execution for his role in the 2001 Parliament attack pushed youth into the web of a resurgent militant network, Wani’s death also gave a fillip to the recruitment of locals. That is why the number surged to 126 in 2017, and 27 have already joined militancy in the first quarter of 2018. The son of the separatist Tehreek-e-Hurriyat chairman, Ashraf Sehrai, was the latest high-profile recruit to militant ranks.

Security forces versus population

However, the April 1 gunfights have raised more questions about how to deal with the situation. If this is the way that militants are to be taken off the scene, then it sets a dangerous trend of security forces versus the population.

Sunday’s bloodbath shows how intricately militants and the civilian population are linked. It also shows how the civilian population prefers to side with militants rather than so-called security forces. Are they supposed to be in Kashmir for the security of the people?

Local participation in militancy has led to huge civilian support for the structures that hold it together. This is especially true of South Kashmir. A large number of local youth who have joined the ranks no longer find themselves in isolation or ostracised. The general public rallied behind militants in the 1990s too, at the height of militancy. This time there is even more aggressive support, visible when people try to foil armed operations. Going after militants sometimes looks like an operation to take on the population.

To kill 13 militants, the security forces also had to kill four civilians and injure over 150, besides locking down South Kashmir and other parts of Valley. Some of the injured civilians are badly hit with pellets from shotguns. This huge collateral cost will work as ammunition for anger, which will make new militants.

Winning no hearts and minds

Unfortunately, the killings are celebrated in the rest of India, especially by those associated with the ruling party. Sunday’s gunfight took place against the backdrop of reports that the Centre was thinking of scaling down armed operations to ensure a “peaceful summer” and encourage tourism in the Valley. But that seems to be a far-fetched idea: projecting Kashmir as a peaceful destination.

The strategy to deal with the upsurge of discontent in Kashmir has been purely law-and-order centric. Whether there is a need to rethink the strategy to deal with the situation is a question for the experts.

But this much is clear: it is a large-scale war in which the civilian population is also pitted against the forces. It no longer fits the description of “Winning Hearts and Minds”, the official doctrine that was touted as the solution to Kashmir about a decade ago.

But for how long can security forces justify the killing of civilians, and how many can they afford to kill? More youth will join the ranks, that too without significant training and ammunition, since they no longer cross the border.

The political route

The crisis that is unfolding is the result of a failed policy. The military approach has failed in Kashmir, if only decision makers in Delhi would care to see it. A policy of dismissing the frustration and despondency on the ground as merely Pakistan-sponsored has led to Sundays like this.

Without using politics as a springboard to address the situation, Kashmir is unlikely to see any change. Even the mainstream parties elected to power have failed to make any difference on the ground, despite pushing an ambitious developmental agenda.

Recognising it as a political problem and talking to all stakeholders without conditions is the only way. Pakistan also is important to the process of finding a solution. Killing militants has come at a huge cost. The forces may kill militants but will not kill the ideas behind militancy. The past 27 years have shown that repeatedly.
https://amp.scroll.in/article/874212/for-how-long-can-new-delhi-justify-the-killing-of-civilians-in-kashmir?__twitter_impression=true
 
Namak,

Indian Kashmir will always be India's, forever till the end of man kind, you know it, I know it, the whole world that dont give 2 hoots about Kashmiri's know it. If your delusional chest thumping on the keyboard brings you inner peace, so be it, type and believe what your heart desires.

That is all they are capable of. Considering they dont have the capacity to change the status Quo.
 
Had, not have. Was never supported by us Assamese people back then.

Perhaps the majority did not support it, you can say that. I don't know the numbers but many still do support it. This happens everywhere in the subcontinent, don't get so defensive or be illogical.
 
Namak,

Indian Kashmir will always be India's, forever till the end of man kind, you know it, I know it, the whole world that dont give 2 hoots about Kashmiri's know it. If your delusional chest thumping on the keyboard brings you inner peace, so be it, type and believe what your heart desires.

Heard this statement from many oppressive regimes before but then history happened.
 
Army's Assurance After Protests Over Jammu And Kashmir Civilian Killings

The Jammu and Kashmir police have filed a case and promised a fair probe while the Army assured cooperation into investigations after two civilians were killed in firing outside an army camp in Rajouri yesterday. The killings triggered massive protests with angry demonstrators throwing stones at the camp, blaming the Army for the killings.

The victims were identified as Surinder Kumar and Kamal Kishore, said the Army. Another man, Anil Kumar - a resident of Uttarakhand, was also injured in the incident. The victims, who were labourers at the camp, were approaching the base when they were fired at.

The army had said both the civilians were killed in terrorist firing. "In an early morning firing incident by unidentified terrorists at Rajouri near Military Hospital, there has been fatal casualty of two individuals. The police, security forces and civil administration officials are on the site," they had said.

But hundreds of protesters blocked the Jammu-Poonch highway, demanding action against army guards whom they accused of the killings. A senior army officer later assured them that the Army will cooperate in the investigations and also help the families of the victims.

"An FIR has been registered. A thorough probe will be conducted. Whatever will be the findings of the probe will be shared. We assure the people that there will be a fair probe into the matter," said Haseeb Mugal, Deputy Inspector General of Police, Rajouri-Poonch.

Ravinder Raina, president of BJP state unit, demanded a Court of inquiry into the killings. He said he's hopeful the army will maintain highest standards and respond accordingly to the allegations.

"Like in the past, when some civilians were killed in Shopian, Army conducted a Court of Inquiry and those involved were taken to task," said Mr Raina. "I have full faith in the Army that in this unfortunate and painful incident, the Army's Northern Command will think over it and take action under its own court of inquiry," he added.

In July 2020, three labourers from Rajouri were killed in a staged encounter in Shopian and passed off as Pakistani terrorists. A subsequent Court of Inquiry by the Army indicted its men, including an army officer, for killing the innocent men.

Mr Raina further said he's hopeful that the Jammu and Kashmir administration and the Army will help the victims' families.

All political parties in Jammu and Kashmir have condemned yesterday's killings and demanded an impartial probe.

NDTV
 
Special Probe For Civilian Killings Outside Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir

The Jammu and Kashmir Police has constituted a special investigating team (SIT) to probe the killing of two civilians in a firing incident outside an Army camp in Rajouri district, official sources said in Jammu. The killings of two civilians and injuries to another on Friday lead to massive protests with people demanding a fair probe into the incident.

While the Army had said in a tweet that some "unidentified terrorists" had started firing at the camp, eyewitnesses claimed a sentry posted at the gate opened fire at approaching locals, resulting in the casualties.

The sources said the police on Monday night set up an SIT headed by a gazette-rank police officer to probe the incident. The SIT has been constituted by Deputy Inspector General of Police, Rajouri Poonch range, Haseeb Mughal, they said.

The SIT will work under the supervision of Senior Superintendent of Police, Rajouri, Mohammad Aslam and will be headed by Deputy SP (headquarters), Rajouri, Chanchal Singh. Its members will be Inspector Danish Maqbool, Probationary Sub-Inspector (PSI) Jatinder Sharma, and two head constables, the sources said.

The SIT has been asked to update the day-to-day progress of the investigation with the range police headquarters, they said.

The team will investigate the incident of firing that took place at the Alfa gate of the Army camp in the Phalyana area of Rajouri town in which two local men, Surinder Kumar and Kamal Kumar, both residents of ward 15 Phalyana, got killed, while Anil Kumar from Uttrakhand was injured and is under treatment in Government Medical College (GMC), Rajouri, the sources said.

NDTV
 
Back
Top