Are Pakistani Muslims safer in the West or Pakistan?

[ExpressPacer]

Just heard on the news about a car crashing into 6 people in the UK leaving after the Eid prayers. And this is only one of the few instances that we've heard of in the past. People like Tommy Robinson inciting violence, people throwing accusations at Muslims, racism and what not. My own cousin who was born and raised in the UK is a target of daily racism, street violence and cat calling. Some people have even tried to take her Hijab off. So much so, she's stopped going to Uni by the subway or bus but rather goes by taxi because of how afraid she is now.

Thousands and thousands of Muslims live in London and they're perfectly fine and I understand that. But a lot of the people I personally know are afraid. My friend's uncle's wife was brutally beaten in the USA.

My very own teacher from when I was in school was recently stabbed by a man in Australia and left for dead with multiple, severe injuries.

This begs the question, would Pakistani Muslims be better off living in Pakistan? I have hundreds (literally hundreds) of friends who've relocated themselves back to Pakistan in the last half a decade or so. Some move to Pakistan with a false hope of a more Islamic society but more and more people are coming back because of security concerns.

Discuss.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Just heard on the news about a car crashing into 6 people in the UK leaving after the Eid prayers. And this is only one of the few instances that we've heard of in the past. People like Tommy Robinson inciting violence, people throwing accusations at Muslims, racism and what not. My own cousin who was born and raised in the UK is a target of daily racism, street violence and cat calling. Some people have even tried to take her Hijab off. So much so, she's stopped going to Uni by the subway or bus but rather goes by taxi because of how afraid she is now.

Thousands and thousands of Muslims live in London and they're perfectly fine and I understand that. But a lot of the people I personally know are afraid. My friend's uncle's wife was brutally beaten in the USA.

My very own teacher from when I was in school was recently stabbed by a man in Australia and left for dead with multiple, severe injuries.

This begs the question, would Pakistani Muslims be better off living in Pakistan? I have hundreds (literally hundreds) of friends who've relocated themselves back to Pakistan in the last half a decade or so. Some move to Pakistan with a false hope of a more Islamic society but more and more people are coming back because of security concerns.

Discuss.

This incident was an accident. The woman arrested at the scene (for careless or dangerous driving I assume) was a Muslim lady who had just attended the Eid prayers.

Nevertheless, your wider point about people being fearful is a valid one.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3880251/newcastle-eid-crash-muslims-accident-driver-video-car/

 

[Moiza]

Depends a lot on the city you live in Pakistan or abroad

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

It all depends upon your Mindset and people you come across.


Otherwise No Place of World atm is Jannat.

 

[Yossarian]

Are Pakistani Muslims safer in the West or Pakistan?

Silly question.

First of all, there are almost 200 million Pakistanis in Pakistan.
Are you referring to those living in areas close to the Afghan border? Those living in Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar? Islamabad? Those living in villages in rural Punjab?

As for 'in the West', do you mean those with Pakistani nationality, those born in Pakistan, those whose parent's or grandparents were born in Pakistan? In the case of the latter, what if only one of their parents or grandparents was of Pakistani origin, do you still classify them as 'Pakistani'?
Furthermore, 'in the West' do you mean in the UK, in Poland, in France, in the USA ...?

As for 'safer', do you mean in physical danger? verbal racist abuse? traffic accidents? victims of violence, theft, muggings?

In absolute numbers? As percentage of population?

Depending upon the aforementioned criteria, the answers will vary.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Silly question.

First of all, there are almost 200 million Pakistanis in Pakistan.
Are you referring to those living in areas close to the Afghan border? Those living in Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar? Islamabad? Those living in villages in rural Punjab?

As for 'in the West', do you mean those with Pakistani nationality, those born in Pakistan, those whose parent's or grandparents were born in Pakistan? In the case of the latter, what if only one of their parents or grandparents was of Pakistani origin, do you still classify them as 'Pakistani'?
Furthermore, 'in the West' do you mean in the UK, in Poland, in France, in the USA ...?

As for 'safer', do you mean in physical danger? verbal racist abuse? traffic accidents? victims of violence, theft, muggings?

In absolute numbers? As percentage of population?

Depending upon the aforementioned criteria, the answers will vary.

The question is what it is and I'd expect any well read and educated person to understand at first glance but I'll break it down for you. Are Muslims of Pakistani heritage living in the West (generalizing Europe, UK, USA, OC) safer in the West or would they be better off relocating themselves to Pakistan (mostly Isb, Lhr, Mirpur, Karachi, Fsbd)?

Don't turn the question into something I haven't said. If you want to answer, go for it. If not, then there isn't any need for you to waste your time trying to sound knowledgeable.

 

[Yossarian]

The question is what it is and I'd expect any well read and educated person to understand at first glance but I'll break it down for you. Are Muslims of Pakistani heritage living in the West (generalizing Europe, UK, USA, OC) safer in the West or would they be better off relocating themselves to Pakistan (mostly Isb, Lhr, Mirpur, Karachi, Fsbd)?

Don't turn the question into something I haven't said. If you want to answer, go for it. If not, then there isn't any need for you to waste your time trying to sound knowledgeable.

Still a silly question. If I was living in Southall or Moss side in Manchester and had the opportunity to go and live in the Hunza Valley whilst being able to do the job I currently do via remote access, then I'd jump at the chance.

Conversely, even though I have to drive over an hour once every week or two just to stock up with halal meat, and there are no halal restaurants in the vicinity, and maybe I'll get the odd looks now and then from some old codger driving by "... did you just see that brown looking chap? He doesn't live around here does he? .." I wouldn't move to Pakistan even if I was to live in the wealthiest part of Karachi or Islamabad.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

I think the stats speak for themselves - sure Britain, America, Canada, mainland Europe etc isn't perfect for Pakistanis and other migrants but the cases of serious religious or racially motivated attacks are few and far between here. Can you really say the same about Pakistan? (or any other country in the area).

 

[ExpressPacer]

Still a silly question. If I was living in Southall or Moss side in Manchester and had the opportunity to go and live in the Hunza Valley whilst being able to do the job I currently do via remote access, then I'd jump at the chance.

Conversely, even though I have to drive over an hour once every week or two just to stock up with halal meat, and there are no halal restaurants in the vicinity, and maybe I'll get the odd looks now and then from some old codger driving by "... did you just see that brown looking chap? He doesn't live around here does he? .." I wouldn't move to Pakistan even if I was to live in the wealthiest part of Karachi or Islamabad.

OK. Thanks for the input buddy!

 

[PakLFC]

C'mmon man! Europe, USA and Canada etc are far better for Pakistanis then their own country.There may be Islamophobic incidents every and again but by and large everyone is treated fairly in the west.Pakistan has territorial disputes, religious extremism, abuse of minorities and poverty on a massive scale. Pakistanis living in the west must also stop making a fuss about everything instead try to integrate with other communities.The incident in Newcastle was not terrorist related.

 

[Tommo]

Don't worry about Pakistanis..they can handle themselves anywhere and have proven it; time and again. However, islamophbia is peaking at the minute, so anything can happen.. The far right is in full swing of late and gaining impetus! I've listened to their narrative about Islam, they twist the Quran just like banned outfits do and have stirred the pot lots of late!

 

[Tommo]

P.S As long as one frequents the gym, the chances of someone trying to get in your face is pretty much nill. Racists here (England) tend to target middle aged Asian cab drivers, high school kids, takeaway staff and their prime target is always a brown female. Shameless cowards.

 

[Tommo]

Most Pakistanis in the uk live in Closed communities where 90% of the people they interact with are Pakistani, this gives them a feel of familiarity and comfort, but once you step out of these areas which frankly are pretty bad and have cultural baggage brought over from pakistan, you do get people looking at you oddly, or the odd chav calling you a ****, mostly they pick on the vulnerable like old and weak looking guys, Appearance is everything if you can present an image of someone who can look after yourself it won't escalate past the 'dirty look' 99% of the time.

Pretty much summed it up. Appearance is everything. If you look feeble you'll be bullied to high heaven. If you look well, dress well and in-shape, it's really very funny how everyone inc chavs and right wingers are dead friendly haha.

 

[Tommo]

On the flipside, for the interest of a balanced assessment, many Pakistanis are also to blame as they refuse to mingle with the white majority. They prefer to live in enclaves, are acutely involved in: Drugs, grooming and what not. Furthermore, many refuse to learn English, and for a reason alien to me prefer to dress in Asian cultural clothing (sticking out like a sore thumb).. I'm not saying all, but a fair amount of Pakistanis have a lot of growing up to do, although the situation has vastly improved over the past two decades.

 

[imrankhannsu]

This is quite a complex question and obviously depends alot on other factors.

IMO most Muslims live safely in the UK. However recently there is a silent fear that if one ventures into certain areas (known racist or chav areas) , they might face direct abuse.

But Allhamdullilah UK is one of the most tolerant countries for ethnic people compared to other European countries. Particullary in London for muslims, there is not a mosque far away. Halal option is almost standard at many small and large eating places. Many females wear hijabs.

I hope InshahAllah we all stay stafe regardless of where we are.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This doesnt make sense. Those in Pakistan will not be subject to Islamaphobia. In the UK this has risen but it's still the minority who would threaten anyone with such hatred. For every Islamaphobe in the UK there are a 100 who aren't.

British Pakistani's have been here for decades now, most live a comfortable and safe life here.

Personally Id rather be here where we have good law and order than Pakistan where you safety can be compromised in so many ways.

 

[Yossarian]

A hijab wearing female is probably better off in Pakistan because she won't stand out in the crowd and attract undue attention towards herself. And won't need to justify herself to others on a regular basis as to why she wears the hijab.

A working class individual with a modest income (or no income at all) is way better off in the West.

However, when it comes to well off middle class and above, the answer is not so clear cut. Yes, security is better in the West when you're out on your own.

BUT, someone in that category in Pakistan also gets the benefit of bypassing whatever rules they don't like, from breaking the law to getting preferential treatment, merely by slipping a few notes to the right individual.

Furthermore, unlike their equivalent in the West, even a decent professional in Pakistan is likely to have drivers, cooks, cleaners etc. which all goes towards making an individual and their family that bit more secure (eg driver takings kids to school or driving female family members to shops, not leaving the house empty during the day when working, when out socialising or away on holiday).

Hence it's not all as clear cut as it seems.

 

[Adil_94]

you are more likely to be a victim of an anti Muslim attack living in a western country than Pakistan. But you are more likely to be killed in a terror attack murder be a rape victim. suffer at the hands of corruption die of disease or a workplace accident in Pakistan.

It also depends on what u look like if u are a woman wearing visble islamic clothing then u are more likely to be attacked by an anti muslim bigot than if u are a 6ft tall muslim guy who works out at the gym.

it also depends on where u live. A lot of Pakistanis in the U.K live in close knit communities where majority of their neighbours and areas are people from pakistani background.

If u live in an upper middle class area with mostly white brits then you will mostly get the dirty look by those who dont like your appearance but they wont attack you but will just spout hate on the daily mail comments section.

if u go on social media u will feel like that muslims in uk are likw rohingyas or something.

not at all all what happens is the people who dont like muslims or pakistanis just come out the woodwork after terror attacks n also some more peopl do get bought in by their words. most of the people who attack a muslim would have most likely held anti muslim views before terror attacks.

still safer in all aspects to live in the u.k than Pakistan

 

[member250]

Absolutely because people of Pakistani heritage in west no matter what are temporary guests and should always be prepared to be asked to go back. In Pakistan you will be received with open arms even if you are 6th generation Pakistani brought up in Europe or north america.

blood is thicker than water

 

[junoon]

If by Pakistani muslims, the OP meant sunni muslims even then it is very debatable whether they are safer and better off living in the West or Pakistan. Lots of sunnis from Pakistan would still want to move to countries in Europe and North America despite the racism and rising Islamophobia. They are excited by the opportunities and first world amenities that these countries have to offer.

But the OP has absolutely no idea about the plight of shia muslims, ahmedis and non-muslims (mostly christians and hindus) living in Pakistan. Infact, the shias and ahmedis are probably safer in India than Pakistan.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Make yourself watch this. God have mercy. I'm shattered. &#55357;&#56468;&#55357;&#56851; We cannot allow this Islamophobic hate to stand <a href="https://t.co/fYx88jDhc5">pic.twitter.com/fYx88jDhc5</a></p>— Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@MuslimIQ) <a href="https://twitter.com/MuslimIQ/status/880785883745718273">June 30, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Pakistanian]

In Pakistan, fundamentalists will kill you if you're not Muslim enough. In the west, fundamentalists will kill if you're too Muslim. Catch 22.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

^^
[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] @Yoassarian [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] [MENTION=137723]JoniInsafian[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] [MENTION=42489]Black Zero[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]


A humble request to raise your voice. If you can.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

In Pakistan, fundamentalists will kill you if you're not Muslim enough. In the west, fundamentalists will kill if you're too Muslim. Catch 22.

And this is the great America (Paradise on Earth)


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Deepest prayers for sister Nabra's parents and family. May God give them patience in this incredibly difficult time. ��<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ramadan?src=hash">#Ramadan</a> <a href="https://t.co/jAr3wlr2Fn">pic.twitter.com/jAr3wlr2Fn</a></p>— Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@MuslimIQ) <a href="https://twitter.com/MuslimIQ/status/876568764132843520">June 18, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Police Spokeswoman: The fire set at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Nabra?src=hash">#Nabra</a>'s memorial "wasn't motivated by bias."<br><br>[slams head into wall]<a href="https://t.co/JavoqAbvBv">https://t.co/JavoqAbvBv</a> <a href="https://t.co/KeCltG4Fvx">pic.twitter.com/KeCltG4Fvx</a></p>— Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@MuslimIQ) <a href="https://twitter.com/MuslimIQ/status/877607220321452032">June 21, 2017</a></blockquote>
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