Babar Azam completes a full set of all format humiliations

[RyanRyan10]

Tests: Pakistan suffered defeat to Australia at home and then endured a whitewash at the hands of England. They barely managed a draw against New Zealand.

ODIs: During the 2023 World Cup, Pakistan could only secure a single victory over New Zealand amongst the top sides and also suffered a defeat against Afghanistan. This was one of the worst runs for Pakistan in World Cups. Under Babar's leadership, Pakistan was unable to reach even the final of the Asia Cup and was also whitewashed by a third string English team.

T20Is: Pakistan, under Babar's leadership, has suffered defeats against teams like New Zealand C, Zimbabwe, Ireland, and recently, USA.

Every captain who has captained a side for a substantial period of time has endured some humiliating defeats. But under Babar, who is highly regarded and considered the savior of Pakistan cricket by his fans, embarrassment has become a regular occurrence for the national side.

 

[Shaheenthefalcon]

We say babar is the “king”. Sure lmao king at losing and scoring runs only against minnows or c teams that they send to pakistan. No team is interested to play against pakistan. Afg… qualified like kings. Take that and such swallow.

 

[Sherazkhalid]

We say babar is the “king”. Sure lmao king at losing and scoring runs only against minnows or c teams that they send to pakistan. No team is interested to play against pakistan. Afg… qualified like kings. Take that and such swallow.

Absolutely, everyone send their C teams to Pakistan to test their bench strength and these stats padder think they are top of the world. The brand is tarnished and no one wants to play with us.

 

[jnaveen1980]

We say babar is the “king”. Sure lmao king at losing and scoring runs only against minnows or c teams that they send to pakistan. No team is interested to play against pakistan. Afg… qualified like kings. Take that and such swallow.

Michael Vaughan " I don't think Pakistan has the skill set to play T20.I honestly don't think they've got many great T20 players.Babar Azam is exceptional,but would he make England's, Australia's, India's, or the West Indies' T20 teams? Probably not."

 

[emranabbas]

Michael Vaughan " I don't think Pakistan has the skill set to play T20.I honestly don't think they've got many great T20 players.Babar Azam is exceptional,but would he make England's, Australia's, India's, or the West Indies' T20 teams? Probably not."

Why wouldn't he? He's the number 1 batsmen in then world

 

[Markhor]

4.5 years of almost dictatorial authority and nothing to show for it.

Not only will Babar go down as one of the worst captains of any international team in the modern era, but also one of the worst ever captains period.

His captaincy has been a failure at every level from U19, domestic, PSL and international cricket.

To think some folks said "he was the best captain in the PSL" and deserved reappointing.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Gonna play Devil's Advocate here. Bobby is an average captain and a highly overrated batsman.

But let's not pretend that a change in captaincy is going to drastically change Pakistan's fortunes.

Masood was given captaincy in Tests. Result was still 3-0 in Australia with Pakistan competing only in 1 Test. Opening bowlers were bowling at 125 kph.

The skill levels are abysmally low. If you need Mike Brearley level captaincy to beat a World Cup debutante like USA , then you are looking for a solution when you haven't defined the problem itself properly.

The fundamental assumption seems to be that there is a ridiculous amount of talent in Pakistan and it's the fault of captain/coach/selector etc.

This basic assumption needs to be questioned at some point instead of blaming everything else.

Sometimes, I really wonder if the denizens of Pakistan all suffer from extreme herpetophobia and pithecophobia . After all, the reptiles and apes there are "talented" Pakistani animals and they must all look like Godzillas and King Kongs to the people who live there.

 

[Asif321]

Babar goes down as worst captain in history of Pakistan cricket surpassing Azhar Ali

 

[Croma]

Why wouldn't he? He's the number 1 batsmen in then world

If the No.1 batsman in the world cannaot make it into any of the top teams, then there is something really wrong with how the rankings are calculated.

 

[pakistani pride]

Add to that his losses at HOME in TEST cricket. By far the worst captain ever.

He has turned Pak into T20 team and even then could not win a single WT20 in 3 attempts.

 

[RyanRyan10]

If the No.1 batsman in the world cannaot make it into any of the top teams, then there is something really wrong with how the rankings are calculated.

Due to most top teams resting their best players for bilateral T20Is, they lose ranking points. The Pakistan team is ranked 7th in T20Is, despite consistently facing weakened opponents. They held the top position in T20I rankings during Sarfaraz's tenure.

 

[ahmed16]

Michael Vaughan " I don't think Pakistan has the skill set to play T20.I honestly don't think they've got many great T20 players.Babar Azam is exceptional,but would he make England's, Australia's, India's, or the West Indies' T20 teams? Probably not."

Not sure about that assessment, I reckon Babar Azam would make the first 11 of most of those teams on numbers alone. Whether he would keep his place in the side is altogether a different matter, I'm sure that England and Australia at the very least would drop him as soon as his performances in crunch situations didn't match the numbers he walks into the team with.

Vaughan being Vaguhan as usual.

 

[Forum363]

Gonna play Devil's Advocate here. Bobby is an average captain and a highly overrated batsman.

But let's not pretend that a change in captaincy is going to drastically change Pakistan's fortunes.

Masood was given captaincy in Tests. Result was still 3-0 in Australia with Pakistan competing only in 1 Test. Opening bowlers were bowling at 125 kph.

The skill levels are abysmally low. If you need Mike Brearley level captaincy to beat a World Cup debutante like USA , then you are looking for a solution when you haven't defined the problem itself properly.

The fundamental assumption seems to be that there is a ridiculous amount of talent in Pakistan and it's the fault of captain/coach/selector etc.

This basic assumption needs to be questioned at some point instead of blaming everything else.

Sometimes, I really wonder if the denizens of Pakistan all suffer from extreme herpetophobia and pithecophobia . After all, the reptiles and apes there are "talented" Pakistani animals and they must all look like Godzillas and King Kongs to the people who live there.

Captaincy doesn’t make a difference is the biggest myth used to justify terrible leaders in cricket.

Captaincy makes a HUGE difference in this sport.

Everyone had this argument about Root being captain of England, he lost 14/15 games in a row. Stokes captaining the same team took them to immediate victories.

You can argue Pakistan doesn’t have the resources that England does but the point is - captaincy is huge.

It’s why captains like Dhoni have won everything, regardless of which teams they’ve been in charge of.

And it’s abundantly clear that Babar is a rubbish captain, a not great pressure player and an egotistical stubborn man. All those have been a curse on the Pakistan team.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Captaincy doesn’t make a difference is the biggest myth used to justify terrible leaders in cricket.

Captaincy makes a HUGE difference in this sport.

Everyone had this argument about Root being captain of England, he lost 14/15 games in a row. Stokes captaining the same team took them to immediate victories.

You can argue Pakistan doesn’t have the resources that England does but the point is - captaincy is huge.

It’s why captains like Dhoni have won everything, regardless of which teams they’ve been in charge of.

And it’s abundantly clear that Babar is a rubbish captain, a not great pressure player and an egotistical stubborn man. All those have been a curse on the Pakistan team.

Bavuma was a rubbish captain, even worse than Babar, and South Africa made the semis comfortably in 2023 and even fought hard in the latter half of the semi to get close to the final. A skilled side is what you need, first and foremost.

Stokes' captaincy did not win England the series in NZ, the home Ashes or stop a 4-1 thrashing in India.

Babar is the same guy who took Pakistan to semis in 2021 unbeaten. But the skill levels of Shaheen, Shadab etc. were higher. The players' skills have regressed and is easy to see for anyone who has watched cricket.

Babar cannot be held responsible for the lack of individual skills or regression in skills etc.

Babar wasn't captain against Afghanistan in 2023 T20 series and the team lost 2-1. Lost 4-1 in NZ under Shaheen's captaincy too

By all means, Pakistan should appoint a new captain. But it won't change the results much, if at all.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Babar is a poor captain and deserves to be booted but no captain in the world could stop Amir bowling a 9 ball over for 18 runs against the US.

 

[cricketmania22]

Pakistanis are in a denial that they have a poor team that’s why they are using Babar as a scapegoat! Babar is a poor captain who’s leading a very poor team!

 

[Human786]

Now that Babar - Shaheen - Babar been tried , how about making the slightly selfish Rizzu the skipper . What say @Rana ?

 

[Human786]

Pakistanis are in a denial that they have a poor team that’s why they are using Babar as a scapegoat! Babar is a poor captain who’s leading a very poor team!

This - poor captain of a mediocre team

 

[topspin]

4.5 years of almost dictatorial authority and nothing to show for it.

Not only will Babar go down as one of the worst captains of any international team in the modern era, but also one of the worst ever captains period.

His captaincy has been a failure at every level from U19, domestic, PSL and international cricket.

To think some folks said "he was the best captain in the PSL" and deserved reappointing.

@Mamoon

 

[Human786]

Babar is a poor captain and deserves to be booted but no captain in the world could stop Amir bowling a 9 ball over for 18 runs against the US.

@DeadlyVenom , lets look a bit deeper , the bowling attack touted by many here & in Chakram's words '' the best pace bowling attack in World with terrific spinners '' in pre-match comments could not defend 159 in 20 overs against USA . Since batting is not the strong point of these guys , how decent has the bowling been ? Fact is , all round a mediocre team !

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@DeadlyVenom , lets look a bit deeper , the bowling attack touted by many here & in Chakram's words '' the best pace bowling attack in World with terrific spinners '' in pre-match comments could not defend 159 in 20 overs against USA . Since batting is not the strong point of these guys , how decent has the bowling been ? Fact is , all round a mediocre team !

Mediocre team but Babar and Rizwan have contributed to that mediocrity in the WC big time.

They shouldn't be involved in the leadership going forward.

 

[Human786]

Mediocre team but Babar and Rizwan have contributed to that mediocrity in the WC big time.

They shouldn't be involved in the leadership going forward.

sure as far as this format goes ... still imo , the cricketers need cricket camps & not military camps & they need to play more TESTS on SPORTING pitches to truly determine who are all format khiladis ! Look at Naseem , guy has bowling talent but drops 1 catch at least out of 3 which come his way - why was he not in nets & in a friggin military camp carrying stones overhead on a incline !!!

 

[Mamoon]

@Mamoon

Imad and Amir fans should stay low after they way embarrassed themselves.

But but but they are experienced and mentally strong and can handle pressure

 

[Master Blaster]

Bobby's failures as a captain and batsman also exposes how outdated Immy and Rambo are with contemporary cricket.

It's one thing for a common fan to hype a player to the moon. But the way these two exaggerate Bobby's prowess is way over the top.

 

[TheSultan]

King Bobsy - I mean the name says it all.

Bobsy sounds more like the court jester - which is more fitting

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

This is what happen when overhype an ordinary player to the moon

 

[hafizexpress]

Bobby's failures as a captain and batsman also exposes how outdated Immy and Rambo are with contemporary cricket.

It's one thing for a common fan to hype a player to the moon. But the way these two exaggerate Bobby's prowess is way over the top.

To be fair, the whole world does. Most ex-players, pundits, and commies from across the world highly praise Babar.

 

[hafizexpress]

Gonna play Devil's Advocate here. Bobby is an average captain and a highly overrated batsman.

But let's not pretend that a change in captaincy is going to drastically change Pakistan's fortunes.

Masood was given captaincy in Tests. Result was still 3-0 in Australia with Pakistan competing only in 1 Test. Opening bowlers were bowling at 125 kph.

The skill levels are abysmally low. If you need Mike Brearley level captaincy to beat a World Cup debutante like USA , then you are looking for a solution when you haven't defined the problem itself properly.

The fundamental assumption seems to be that there is a ridiculous amount of talent in Pakistan and it's the fault of captain/coach/selector etc.

This basic assumption needs to be questioned at some point instead of blaming everything else.

Sometimes, I really wonder if the denizens of Pakistan all suffer from extreme herpetophobia and pithecophobia . After all, the reptiles and apes there are "talented" Pakistani animals and they must all look like Godzillas and King Kongs to the people who live there.

POTW

 

[Saj]

Pakistan cricket's problems aren't just with captaincy.

You could make anyone the skipper and the team would still struggle.

The bigger issue is the brand of cricket, the selection policy, their approach.

 

[hafizexpress]

POTW

Meant to edit this but time ran out.

I think there are caveats to this. Yes, shifts in captaincy alone wouldn't affect results, but one captain over a long period of time can leave long-lasting effects that we get normalized to. What we see today is a culmination of year after year of seeing Babar's decisions and choices. For example, you mentioned our test results with Masood as captain. Why do we have a team like that in the first place? Where Shaheen could barely bowl in the mid 130s kph, the other bowler is a debutant, and overall our bowling attack barely has 200 wickets combined? Why, in the England test series, was someone like Faheem Ashraf opening our bowling? These are all long-term effects of which Babar is the cause. He has been absolutely terrible at grooming players. He's the reason Shaheen has regressed (due to mishandling). He's the reason Imam was opening for us at the World Cup. He's the reason we didn't have any bench strength in the WC last year. He's the reason we have to resort to Hasan Ali time after time due to his experience because Babar didn't allow others to gain experience. He's the reason for a lot of demise to Pakistan cricket. Our test team is terrible, ODI team is a fraud, and t20 team just got exposed.

Babar was the right choice to become captain when he did. But he should have passed it on to someone else long ago. Instead, he was given it back after one series

 

[hafizexpress]

Pakistan cricket's problems aren't just with captaincy.

You could make anyone the skipper and the team would still struggle.

The bigger issue is the brand of cricket, the selection policy, their approach.

The brand of cricket, the selection policy, and their approach, have all significantly been in Babar's hands. He's a big reason the we play the way we play, why we've selected his friends over and over again and not developed bench strength, and why our approach has been timid for a long time.

 

[hafizexpress]

Meant to edit this but time ran out.

I think there are caveats to this. Yes, shifts in captaincy alone wouldn't affect results, but one captain over a long period of time can leave long-lasting effects that we get normalized to. What we see today is a culmination of year after year of seeing Babar's decisions and choices. For example, you mentioned our test results with Masood as captain. Why do we have a team like that in the first place? Where Shaheen could barely bowl in the mid 130s kph, the other bowler is a debutant, and overall our bowling attack barely has 200 wickets combined? Why, in the England test series, was someone like Faheem Ashraf opening our bowling? These are all long-term effects of which Babar is the cause. He has been absolutely terrible at grooming players. He's the reason Shaheen has regressed (due to mishandling). He's the reason Imam was opening for us at the World Cup. He's the reason we didn't have any bench strength in the WC last year. He's the reason we have to resort to Hasan Ali time after time due to his experience because Babar didn't allow others to gain experience. He's the reason for a lot of demise to Pakistan cricket. Our test team is terrible, ODI team is a fraud, and t20 team just got exposed.

Babar was the right choice to become captain when he did. But he should have passed it on to someone else long ago. Instead, he was given it back after one series

@Nikhil_cric

 

[Dantheone]

You can change captains, coaches, but there aren't good enough players. Pakistan is just slightly above Zim, BD, Ireland and other associates.

 

[umerz]

3 year captaincy was good enough for Babar Azam to realize he will not make it as a leader. I dont know who his support group which advised him to accept the captaincy after sacking 6 months ago. He should have just concentrated as a batsman, this has impacted his overall game too. He is not smart as a captain neither a quick learner. Big mistake

 

[kingusama92]

No doubt Babar is a terrible captain.

But to be fair to Babar, his on-field captaincy wasn't the issue this time around. I thought he did well against India. His bowlers were absolute idiots in the first match including Rauf who was bowling without a brain.

Captains can't do much when their bowlers don't bowl according to where the fielders are.

Babar shouldn't be captain but who do they replace him with? Shaheen and Rizwan are the only options. Fakhar would be an interesting one too to create a positive mindset in the team but does he have leadership experience?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Meant to edit this but time ran out.

I think there are caveats to this. Yes, shifts in captaincy alone wouldn't affect results, but one captain over a long period of time can leave long-lasting effects that we get normalized to. What we see today is a culmination of year after year of seeing Babar's decisions and choices. For example, you mentioned our test results with Masood as captain. Why do we have a team like that in the first place? Where Shaheen could barely bowl in the mid 130s kph, the other bowler is a debutant, and overall our bowling attack barely has 200 wickets combined? Why, in the England test series, was someone like Faheem Ashraf opening our bowling? These are all long-term effects of which Babar is the cause. He has been absolutely terrible at grooming players. He's the reason Shaheen has regressed (due to mishandling). He's the reason Imam was opening for us at the World Cup. He's the reason we didn't have any bench strength in the WC last year. He's the reason we have to resort to Hasan Ali time after time due to his experience because Babar didn't allow others to gain experience. He's the reason for a lot of demise to Pakistan cricket. Our test team is terrible, ODI team is a fraud, and t20 team just got exposed.

Babar was the right choice to become captain when he did. But he should have passed it on to someone else long ago. Instead, he was given it back after one series

To be honest, that's where I will have to disagree with you. I don't see how anyone can blame Babar for Shaheen's or Shadab's regression.

How are the bowlers monitored in Pakistan ?

Shadab's action has fallen apart with his leading arm falling away instead of pulling downwards . That is a technical flaw . That is upto the bowling coach and maybe coaches at the High Performance Centre to help correct.

Why is Shaheen collapsing (I think ) in his action and not able to power through the crease like he used to ?

These can't be blamed on Babar. If there is no technical support , players should seek and get the relevant support from the relevant coaches.

In Shaheen's case, he actively denies his decline in pace which tells me that he either doesn't know there is an issue or he simply doesn't care.

These issues cannot be put on Babar at all. These are issues in PCB's structure and with the individual players' themselves.

Babar can be blamed for his own performances and tactics maybe but that's about it. Issues are far deeper than that.

 

[hafizexpress]

To be honest, that's where I will have to disagree with you. I don't see how anyone can blame Babar for Shaheen's or Shadab's regression.

How are the bowlers monitored in Pakistan ?

Shadab's action has fallen apart with his leading arm falling away instead of pulling downwards . That is a technical flaw . That is upto the bowling coach and maybe coaches at the High Performance Centre to help correct.

Why is Shaheen collapsing (I think ) in his action and not able to power through the crease like he used to ?

These can't be blamed on Babar. If there is no technical support , players should seek and get the relevant support from the relevant coaches.

In Shaheen's case, he actively denies his decline in pace which tells me that he either doesn't know there is an issue or he simply doesn't care.

These issues cannot be put on Babar at all. These are issues in PCB's structure and with the individual players' themselves.

Babar can be blamed for his own performances and tactics maybe but that's about it. Issues are far deeper than that.

I didn't blame Babar for Shadab's regression. But yes, the reason Babar is a big reason for Shaheen's downfall is because he has little faith in any other bowlers in the country, and so he overrelied on Shaheen, didn't give him time to recover from his injuries fully, and bowled him every single game in every format. When Bumrah got injured, he went through full rehab and India gave him plenty time to rest and even made him miss the 2022 t20 WC, and you can see him back and fully fit as he ever was. On the other hand, Shaheen was forced to return from his incomplete rehab in the 2022 WC and got injured again, came back to playing every single game in all formats again, and you can clearly see a different bowler to what he was prior to that WC. Babar just could not give him a rest. You can even see that in the series since Babar became captain again. Against weaker sides like c string NZ, Ireland, etc., he's playing every single game for no reason. No other team plays their top bowlers as much as Pakistan has played Shaheen. You see people now constantly saying he should just take a rest for a good amount of time, when this should have happened long ago. He never got the proper opportunity to get back into rhythm.

Also, Shaheen does acknowledge his lack of pace. He's commented on it a couple of times and there was even a whole thread here about him saying that he feels he's back to full pace or something. I might be recalling incorrectly. But point is, he DOES know. And he should have been taken care of better long ago

 

[hafizexpress]

No doubt Babar is a terrible captain.

But to be fair to Babar, his on-field captaincy wasn't the issue this time around. I thought he did well against India. His bowlers were absolute idiots in the first match including Rauf who was bowling without a brain.

Captains can't do much when their bowlers don't bowl according to where the fielders are.

Babar shouldn't be captain but who do they replace him with? Shaheen and Rizwan are the only options. Fakhar would be an interesting one too to create a positive mindset in the team but does he have leadership experience?

I agree, his captaincy was much better in the last two games. But the damage that he has caused to Pak cricket in the last 4.5 years is going to take a long time to repair.

I wouldn't make Shaheen and Rizwan captains in the t20 format, but I don't mind Rizwan as captain for ODI.

 

[Energy]

Reason why Babar has come in this position now is his influence in player selections. And his stubbornness to resist change.

No captain in the world can tell Rauf how to defend 12 runs of 3 balls. No captain can turn Shadab into an aggressive wicket taking spinner. No captain can ask Iftikhar to finish games. No captain will back an unfit Azam as the front line batter.

The fact that Babar wasn't brave, and instead went with his friends within the comfort zone has ultimately resulted in his downfall. Add to that his own form and now he's been looked at as one of the worst.

It's nature's way of taking revenge due to badniyati. I'm a supporter of Babar but you cannot let this slip now and he must be held accountable.

 

[Kianig89]

Babar Azam is massively overated as captain, that's quite a shame his selections has been controversial since the dark ages era

 

[ahmed16]

To be honest, that's where I will have to disagree with you. I don't see how anyone can blame Babar for Shaheen's or Shadab's regression.

How are the bowlers monitored in Pakistan ?

Shadab's action has fallen apart with his leading arm falling away instead of pulling downwards . That is a technical flaw . That is upto the bowling coach and maybe coaches at the High Performance Centre to help correct.

Why is Shaheen collapsing (I think ) in his action and not able to power through the crease like he used to ?

These can't be blamed on Babar. If there is no technical support , players should seek and get the relevant support from the relevant coaches.

In Shaheen's case, he actively denies his decline in pace which tells me that he either doesn't know there is an issue or he simply doesn't care.

These issues cannot be put on Babar at all. These are issues in PCB's structure and with the individual players' themselves.

Babar can be blamed for his own performances and tactics maybe but that's about it. Issues are far deeper than that.

Spot on but this is too honest a post for Pakpassion.

The brains trust here thinks Babars to blame for everything

 

[dravidthewall]

Under Babar Azam's captaincy, Pakistan has failed to win any significant series or ICC events. They lost Test series at home against Australia and England, drew against New Zealand, and lost T20 series at home against New Zealand. Additionally, they lost the ODI series against Australia at home. Pakistan was eliminated in the group stage of the 2023 and 2024 T20 World Cups and lost the Asia Cup. They have also suffered losses against associate teams like Zimbabwe, USA, and Afghanistan. It seems that everything has gone wrong for Pakistan under Babar Azam's leadership