Babri Masjid - A lost opportunity for Indian Muslims?

[Nitin Tomer]

Babri demolition is a black spot on India's secularism and rightly so. It gace rise to religious extremism on both sides and there are still repercussions.

I have had these thoughts in my mind for a long time, putting them here for a discussion - I believe that Indian Muslims lost a huge opportunity to show their generosity and to get assimilated in the mainstream.

The 70s and 80s were tumultuous decades in India. Early nineties saw Rajeev Gandhi at the helm. He was a political novice and did whatever his political advisers said. There had been a history of Muslim appeasement (in smaller matters, overall they still lag behind) in India and there had been an anger in Hindus against it. The historic Shahbano judgement and Rajeev's unconstitutional reversal of it, fanned it even more.

Then comes the matter of Ram temple. Ram is one of the biggest Gods of Hindus, and his birthplace is very, very holy. Whereas Babri was just another mosque for Muslims. There had been umpteen attempts to explain this to Muslims and get only a little land where Ram was supposedly born and make a small temple there. Moderate sections of Muslims were ready for it, but hardliners vehemently against.

Advani exploited Rajeev's Muslim appeasement and this unwillingness by Muslims to concede even a little to the hilt. Most of the Hindus are not as strongly religious as Muslims are; I would put their numbers as high as 90% (there is a reason why BJP is out of power, and Mosi isn't a viable PM candidate). But even the moderates see Advani's PoV and it fanned anger. This culminated in Babru demolition, subsequent riots and it's after-effects can still be felt.

If only the Muslim leadership had shown little magnanimity, not only they would have won Hindus' hearts for ever, but would have also nipped the Hindu religious extremism for ever.

Your thoughts?

 

[eradicator]

Very well said. If only Muslims could have just given up that land which holds no significance for them to the Hindus ( who care ) for whom its the most sacred place , could have done wonders for the unity.

But Since that hasnt happened one can wonder how much the other party demands and how much are they willing to offer to others even for the sake of peace .

I think its only the duty of Hindus to give up their rights so as to maintain communal harmony in India but such a policy can work only for some time and it will come to bite back in the longer run and we have history as an evidence of it.

And mind you if the demographies were opposite to what they are in India right now, all the proud secularism would have thrown in some garbage bag , no court rulings would have taken place and wasted time on that case for so many years but a Mosque would have already been built on that land by now.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The great Lord Rama couldn't show any trust in her great (the actually great) wife Seeta. She committed no sin during her stay in Lanka after Raavan abducted her and kept her honour. But The great Lord Rama abandoned her just because a few losers in Ayodhya questioned her character. Seeta ji then left Ayodhya, gave birth to two children. Can you imagine the hardships of a single mother? Then later on The great Lord Rama gets to know about his two children and gets them back. Poor Seeta ji didn't wish to go back to the man who showed no trust in her and left this world. What a sad life! I don;t know about you, but i can't forgive the great lord Rama.

 

[King Cobra]

The great Lord Rama couldn't show any trust in her great (the actually great) wife Seeta. She committed no sin during her stay in Lanka after Raavan abducted her and kept her honour. But The great Lord Rama abandoned her just because a few losers in Ayodhya questioned her character. Seeta ji then left Ayodhya, gave birth to two children. Can you imagine the hardships of a single mother? Then later on The great Lord Rama gets to know about his two children and gets them back. Poor Seeta ji didn't wish to go back to the man who showed no trust in her and left this world. What a sad life! I don;t know about you, but i can't forgive the great lord Rama.

How is this related to topic in hand ?

 

[shakil]

Babri Masjid should have been sealed through court order and should have remained so until the Muslims and Hindus could come up with a solution through dialogues (The solution of division without both parties agreeing was idiotic)

What transpired is first Babri Masjid was used as a Temple and then destroyed because of the claim that the invading Muslims destroyed a temple and constructed a Mosque over the same place. Clearly a deadlock situation.

But I guess secularism can only work when the majority general public is completely secular. Islam couldn't assimilate within Hinduism and India as originally envisioned by Sardar and Gandhi jee

 

[Bhaijaan]

How is this related to topic in hand ?

Seems like some Seniks are gonna be coming at me with bamboo and trishul. Before you destroy my house let me tell you Raavan was the greatest Shiva devotee.

 

[justarslan]

If only you knew your history you would know that there is no historical evidence that modern Ayodhya is Ayodhya of Ram. It was a political decision by a Hindu King to found modern Ayodhya as his capital and he made it Ayodhya of Ram. This gave legitimacy to his empire in the eyes of Hindus.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

If only you knew your history you would know that there is no historical evidence that modern Ayodhya is Ayodhya of Ram. It was a political decision by a Hindu King to found modern Ayodhya as his capital and he made it Ayodhya of Ram. This gave legitimacy to his empire in the eyes of Hindus.

It's not about historical evidence buddy, it's about faith. And it's Hindus' faith that Ram was born there.

 

[Bhaijaan]

People are hating on me because i am taking Mother Sita's side against Lord Rama?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Babri Maszid - a lost opportunity for Indian muslims?

If only you knew your history you would know that there is no historical evidence that modern Ayodhya is Ayodhya of Ram. It was a political decision by a Hindu King to found modern Ayodhya as his capital and he made it Ayodhya of Ram. This gave legitimacy to his empire in the eyes of Hindus.

Religion is based on beliefs else there is no proof that god exists.

@OP

ShahBano case was what fanned the Hindu anger towards appeasement of Muslims.They realised that a few people can get unconstitutional issues made legal by political support.The constitutional amendment making separate laws for Muslim on which courts couldnt issue judgement fanned huge discontent among the hindus who have never tried to assert their religious laws into the state laws.

That was the biggest blunder by Rajiv Gandhi who remains the worst PM in Indian history.

@FC
You are mature enough to know that how your statement has the potential to hurt the sentiments of others.You are free to believe whatever you want but your freedom shouldnt hurt others.

 

[justarslan]

It's not about historical evidence buddy, it's about faith. And it's Hindus' faith that Ram was born there.

Then it is just majority oppressing the minority even if Indian Muslims compromise. Ball is in Hindus court. Find historical evidence and you can built Ram temple. No evidence no ram temple to replace Babri Mosque.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Then it is just majority oppressing the minority even if Indian Muslims compromise. Ball is in Hindus court. Find historical evidence and you can built Ram temple. No evidence no ram temple to replace Babri Mosque.

I didn't want to go into this, but you leave me no choice - do you have any evidence that Muhammad was a prophet, that God revealed Quran to him, that there actually is a God. If not, then even the mosque should not be there. No?

 

[Bhaijaan]

@FC
You are mature enough to know that how your statement has the potential to hurt the sentiments of others.You are free to believe whatever you want but your freedom shouldnt hurt others.

Got a bit carried away yar. Apologies to all for calling Lord Rama a 'guy'. Kindly forgive me.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Babri Maszid - a lost opportunity for Indian muslims?

Then it is just majority oppressing the minority even if Indian Muslims compromise. Ball is in Hindus court. Find historical evidence and you can built Ram temple. No evidence no ram temple to replace Babri Mosque.

ASI has already found a temple remains under the Masjid.So that Masjid was built by demolishing a temple.

Please prove that GOD exists and he revealed the Holy Quran to The Prophet(PBUH).It is the belief of Muslims that Prophet was blessed by Allah and the Quran was revealed to him.

Religion is all based on Beliefs.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Then it is just majority oppressing the minority even if Indian Muslims compromise. Ball is in Hindus court. Find historical evidence and you can built Ram temple. No evidence no ram temple to replace Babri Mosque.

Govt of India says Ram Setu is a myth. If thats a myth, Ramayana is a myth and so is Lord Ram and so is my allegation.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-says-ram-setu-a-myth-bjp-up-in-arms/48518-3.html

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Why people fail to understand that there is a reason religion is called "faith".

 

[King Cobra]

People are hating on me because i am taking Mother Sita's side against Lord Rama?

Is this thread about who was right among Rama and Sita ? Or does Sita being right and Rama being wrong have any connection with Hindu's right to have a temple at land where Babri Mosque stood ?

 

[prtikul]

Govt of India says Ram Setu is a myth. If thats a myth, Ramayana is a myth and so is Lord Ram and so is my allegation.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-says-ram-setu-a-myth-bjp-up-in-arms/48518-3.html

It's not question whether Lord Rama was myth or not. Hindus believe that he was not human but incarnation of God Vishnu who helps in maintening universe.Like christians believe that Jesus Christ was son of God or like Muslims believe that he was a prophet or like Ahmaddiya muslims believe that Ahmad was sent by God like Jesus to end all religious wars and to reinstitute morality,justice and peace.

All above examples are of faith as neither can be proved. We need to respect it as long as believer don't show biogetry by claiming that "Only my religion is true while others are myth or corrupted" without any contrete evidence to back this claim.

 

[Garuda]

I have never seen or interacted with God Ram or for that matter any XYZ god.


However, almost every day I interact with a muslim who is a human and shares his life on this earth with me.

I will never choose a temple or a God against a human. For me the human has more value than any God, temple, mosque etc etc.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Is this thread about who was right among Rama and Sita ? Or does Sita being right and Rama being wrong have any connection with Hindu's right to have a temple at land where Babri Mosque stood ?

Makes sense considering the kind of crazy importance that is being given to such mythical figures. OP is glorifying Lord Ram and expecting everyone to hold him in high regard as well. OP says Muslims should have shown big heart and let those moronic Hindu extremists demolish their place of worship. Now i am very nonreligious and neutral but even i have that much sense that all places of worship hold equal importance. A glorious golden temple is no greater than a humble mosque. OP referred to it as just another mosque and kind of justified its demolition for a dream project for another mythical figure who was also flawed.

Ironic that people are expecting me to show tolerance on here regarding their fantasies and are at the same time asking Muslims not to take offense to the Ayodhya Mandir project=Heart breaking demolition of a Masjid.

 

[King Cobra]

I have never seen or interacted with God Ram or for that matter any XYZ god.


However, almost every day I interact with a muslim who is a human and shares his life on this earth with me.

I will never choose a temple or a God against a human. For me the human has more value than any God, temple, mosque etc etc.

From where does the question of choice between God or Human arises ?

 

[Garuda]

From where does the question of choice between God or Human arises ?

If not then there wouldn't have been a drive to demolish the mosque by hindus or a decade long court case from muslims.

I don't believe in religion and to me it doesn't matter if there is a temple or a mosque or a plain field.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Ramayana may be racist as well, since it depicts Lankans as ugly demons and Ram's people as proper humans with fair complexion. At least that's what i noticed in the tv serial.

Apparently Lord Lakshaman made fun of Raavan's sister's ugliness, the main reason behind the whole story.

 

[Garuda]

Ramayana may be racist as well, since it depicts Lankans as ugly demons and Ram's people as proper humans with fair complexion. At least that's what i noticed in the tv serial.

Apparently Lord Lakshaman made fun of Raavan's sister's ugliness, the main reason behind the whole story.

I think you are going too much here

If there is a war shown between Europeans and Africans, then the serial is not going to show Africans looking like Europeans. Right. ?

Well, they might have generalized the looks of all Srilankans and Indians in the serial but that is not due to racist.

 

[justarslan]

I didn't want to go into this, but you leave me no choice - do you have any evidence that Muhammad was a prophet, that God revealed Quran to him, that there actually is a God. If not, then even the mosque should not be there. No?

You are taking it to a totally wrong direction. I am not questioning authenticity of Hinduism. I am just asking of if Hindus have historical evidence that modern Ayodhya is Ayodhya of Ram.

I have a even more simpler solution for you guys. Change the name of country from Republic of India to Hindu Republic of India, make Hinduism official religion and stop calling India secular country. This way Hindus can built their Ram temple on a fake location and you can openly oppress minorities as well.

 

[eradicator]

Mandir Wahi Banaengay .

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Babri Maszid - a lost opportunity for Indian muslims?

You are taking it to a totally wrong direction. I am not questioning authenticity of Hinduism. I am just asking of if Hindus have historical evidence that modern Ayodhya is Ayodhya of Ram.

I have a even more simpler solution for you guys. Change the name of country from Republic of India to Hindu Republic of India, make Hinduism official religion and stop calling India secular country. This way Hindus can built their Ram temple on a fake location and you can openly oppress minorities as well.

The name the approximate location the river etc all tally.

 

[Ambi]

I have a even more simpler solution for you guys. Change the name of country from Republic of India to Hindu Republic of India, make Hinduism official religion and stop calling India secular country. This way Hindus can built their Ram temple on a fake location and you can openly oppress minorities as well.

Do you want us to behave like you.No thanks

 

[King Cobra]

When the court itself has decided that a Temple stood on the disputed land then I dont think there is any need to give any Safai on the authenticity of Temple , especially to Pakistanis.

 

[Ambi]

Why hindus waited for 356 years to claim the ownership of the land

 

[Nitin Tomer]

OP is glorifying Lord Ram and expecting everyone to hold him in high regard as well. OP says Muslims should have shown big heart and let those moronic Hindu extremists demolish their place of worship.

Where and how I glorified Ram? I said that majority of Indian Hindus hold him in a high regard; is that not true?

And you do have comprehension issues. The whole point of this thread is that demolitions should never have happened.

OP referred to it as just another mosque and kind of justified its demolition for a dream project for another mythical figure who was also flawed.

Are you really a dud, or merely trying to act like one? I have very specifically condemned the demolition. My point was that if Muslims have given only a small part of land (Sanctum Sanctorum), things would have been much better today. For one, Modi would have been a nobdy, and probably Gujrat 2002 would have never happened.

Ironic that people are expecting me to show tolerance on here regarding their fantasies and are at the same time asking Muslims not to take offense to the Ayodhya Mandir project=Heart breaking demolition of a Masjid.

Who asked you that and where? You are imagining stuff. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly. Do it 100 times, it will help.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Why hindus waited for 356 years to claim the ownership of the land

Ambi, it was this kind of attitude which led to demolition and chaos afterwards. The initial demand was for a very small part of land. If both communities had shown restraint, things would have never come to such a pass.

 

[Ambi]

Ambi, it was this kind of attitude which led to demolition and chaos afterwards. The initial demand was for a very small part of land. If both communities had shown restraint, things would have never come to such a pass.

Hindus should have demanded for an excavation of the site at first instead of occupying a part in mosque.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Hindus should have demanded for an excavation of the site at first instead of occupying a part in mosque.

We can keep on arguing on it till the turn of century. Or accept it as a matter of faith, and accept that it supposedly being the birthplace of Ram, does hold a special place for Hindus.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I didn't want to go into this, but you leave me no choice - do you have any evidence that Muhammad was a prophet, that God revealed Quran to him, that there actually is a God. If not, then even the mosque should not be there. No?

The Prophet(pbuh) existed, he cleared the holy site from idols accepted by almost all historians which continues to exist today.

There was no temple and your logic is one of extremist idiocy. You cannot just go jumping on others holy sites like monkeys on a false belief with no historical evidence to support a lunatic belief of a temple underneath hundreds of years ago.

The Indian court ruling rewarding these nutjjob extremists with a portion of the land shows India appeases and is influenced by right Hindu extremists. The BJP is the second biggest party.

Please take your Hindutva right wing nonsense to some other forum.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

The Prophet(pbuh) existed, he cleared the holy site from idols accepted by almost all historians which continues to exist today.

Who questioned his existence?

 

[Zarrar]

Not surprised by the fact that the Indian Muslims being so marginalized, persecuted, disenfranchised and subjugated in India, that only one (assuming Ambi is one) managed to show up in this thread...from a population of 200 million, their web presence/penetration or lack thereof is reflective of and perfectly inline with their overall deprivation in the so called "secular" and "democratic" India...

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Not surprised by the fact that the Indian Muslims being so marginalized, persecuted, disenfranchised and subjugated in India, that only one (assuming Ambi is one) managed to show up in this thread...from a population of 200 million, their web presence/penetration or lack thereof is reflective of and perfectly inline with their overall deprivation in the so called "secular" and "democratic" India...

Azim Premzi
The Bollywood Khans
Abdul Kamal Azad

Need I say more?

 

[eradicator]

You cannot just go jumping on others holy sites like monkeys on a false belief with no historical evidence to support a lunatic belief of a temple underneath hundreds of years ago.

Yeah but some other animals aka Good Taliban whom you idolize so much, can dynamite and destroy the harmless Buddhist stupas in Afghanistan.

The very same like minded motivated group of people did the same to sacred places in India .

Its funny how whenever anyone does the same to a mosque you lot cant stop mourning over it.

You only reap what you sow.

 

[kaayal]

we must respect the religious sentiments of both parties here.Ayodhya is a pilgrim site of hindus like Mecca and Medina for muslims.The act of attacking a mosque by a mob and then demolishing it also cannot be justified.
And about we could have prevented it,we actually don't know what dialogues were going on between concerned parties during the past 60yrs.we only hear about the biased views of both of them.so its better we don't comment on it.

As the Allahabad court has given the verdict,i think the concerned parties should now sit together and should put an end to this controversy.we should now show the world it as an example of communal harmony moving away from its tortured history.

And mods-pls correct the title.

 

[TM Riddle]

we must respect the religious sentiments of both parties here.Ayodhya is a pilgrim site of hindus like Mecca and Medina for muslims.The act of attacking a mosque by a mob and then demolishing it also cannot be justified.
And about we could have prevented it,we actually don't know what dialogues were going on between concerned parties during the past 60yrs.we only hear about the biased views of both of them.so its better we don't comment on it.

As the Allahabad court has given the verdict,i think the concerned parties should now sit together and should put an end to this controversy.we should now show the world it as an example of communal harmony moving away from its tortured history.

And mods-pls correct the title.

Top post ..completely agree with you

 

[prtikul]

we must respect the religious sentiments of both parties here.Ayodhya is a pilgrim site of hindus like Mecca and Medina for muslims.The act of attacking a mosque by a mob and then demolishing it also cannot be justified.
And about we could have prevented it,we actually don't know what dialogues were going on between concerned parties during the past 60yrs.we only hear about the biased views of both of them.so its better we don't comment on it.

As the Allahabad court has given the verdict,i think the concerned parties should now sit together and should put an end to this controversy.we should now show the world it as an example of communal harmony moving away from its tortured history.

And mods-pls correct the title.

Good post,

This is what required to happen in secular democracy like India. Respect for other faiths is prerequisite for communal harmony.

You sounds like a secular Indian muslim

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Babri Maszid - a lost opportunity for Indian muslims?

Not surprised by the fact that the Indian Muslims being so marginalized, persecuted, disenfranchised and subjugated in India, that only one (assuming Ambi is one) managed to show up in this thread...from a population of 200 million, their web presence/penetration or lack thereof is reflective of and perfectly inline with their overall deprivation in the so called "secular" and "democratic" India...

Oh.How is the Pakistani Muslims better?Bangladesh 1971 Balochistan daily drone and suicide bombing killings.I guess Indian muslims are much better off.These Indian muslims rejected the idea of Pakistan and told those who wanted Pakistan that their loyalties lie.to their country and that a country doesnt have anything to do with religion.Dont think they need Pakistani help support or advise now.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Babri Maszid - a lost opportunity for Indian muslims?

The Prophet(pbuh) existed, he cleared the holy site from idols accepted by almost all historians which continues to exist today.

There was no temple and your logic is one of extremist idiocy. You cannot just go jumping on others holy sites like monkeys on a false belief with no historical evidence to support a lunatic belief of a temple underneath hundreds of years ago.

The Indian court ruling rewarding these nutjjob extremists with a portion of the land shows India appeases and is influenced by right Hindu extremists. The BJP is the second biggest party.

Please take your Hindutva right wing nonsense to some other forum.

First you dont have the right to tell anyone what they can post here.

Secondly the ASI has already proved by its excavation that a temple existed at the sight of that Masjid.

Please tell me who declared BJP an extremist party?Pakistanis?Sorry but that doesnt apply.

Neither the Indian democracy or Indian Judiciary needs certification from Pakistanis.India's democratic credentials are well respected world over.

 

[kaayal]

pls zarrar,don't talk about Indian muslims without knowing the ground realities.If any muslims are marginalised or oppressed,its because of their own fault.they never wanted to come out of their shell and was confined to their own religion.they were never concerned about the education and mostly involved in small family businesses which didn't required any technical knowledge.but now the situation has changed a lot and they know that religion only will not bring any food to the family.most of them know that without education one cannot survive in this modern world.as a result of this every parent is working hard to give their children best possible education and secure their lifes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

When the court itself has decided that a Temple stood on the disputed land then I dont think there is any need to give any Safai on the authenticity of Temple , especially to Pakistanis.

Well then why post the thread here then?

 

[Indiafan]

@FC
You are mature enough to know that how your statement has the potential to hurt the sentiments of others.You are free to believe whatever you want but your freedom shouldnt hurt others.

Come, I thought hinduism was one religion in the world where people were free to criticize Gods and also share a laugh just because the faith of hinds are so strong. Guess, I was wrong and hindus are as insecure as anyone else

 

[oyei]

Religion is based on beliefs else there is no proof that god exists.

@OP

ShahBano case was what fanned the Hindu anger towards appeasement of Muslims.They realised that a few people can get unconstitutional issues made legal by political support.The constitutional amendment making separate laws for Muslim on which courts couldnt issue judgement fanned huge discontent among the hindus who have never tried to assert their religious laws into the state laws.

That was the biggest blunder by Rajiv Gandhi who remains the worst PM in Indian history.

@FC
You are mature enough to know that how your statement has the potential to hurt the sentiments of others.You are free to believe whatever you want but your freedom shouldnt hurt others.

oh the irony..

 

[oyei]

First you dont have the right to tell anyone what they can post here.

Secondly the ASI has already proved by its excavation that a temple existed at the sight of that Masjid.

Please tell me who declared BJP an extremist party?Pakistanis?Sorry but that doesnt apply.

Neither the Indian democracy or Indian Judiciary needs certification from Pakistanis.India's democratic credentials are well respected world over.

oh the irony again...

 

[Khaleefa]

The great Lord Rama couldn't show any trust in her great (the actually great) wife Seeta. She committed no sin during her stay in Lanka after Raavan abducted her and kept her honour. But The great Lord Rama abandoned her just because a few losers in Ayodhya questioned her character. Seeta ji then left Ayodhya, gave birth to two children. Can you imagine the hardships of a single mother? Then later on The great Lord Rama gets to know about his two children and gets them back. Poor Seeta ji didn't wish to go back to the man who showed no trust in her and left this world. What a sad life! I don;t know about you, but i can't forgive the great lord Rama.

but then who was the biological father of those kids? Didn't u just say Seeta had a great character?

 

[Smiling Creed]

Got a bit carried away yar. Apologies to all for calling Lord Rama a 'guy'. Kindly forgive me.

FC....do you know why he left sita? What was the motive behind that?

 

[Fallen King]

Babri Masjid is not worth it and especially after reading the comments of this thread. Just because people claim for the nation doesn't make that one.

Knowing the history of Gujarat and the possibility of Modi coming back to power, Babri Masjid is not worth it. Indian Muslim needs to stay away from the controversial land that may trigger the inevitable riot and possibility life-threatening for the community, Allahu Alim!.

 

[KingKhanWC]

First you dont have the right to tell anyone what they can post here.

Secondly the ASI has already proved by its excavation that a temple existed at the sight of that Masjid.

Please tell me who declared BJP an extremist party?Pakistanis?Sorry but that doesnt apply.

Neither the Indian democracy or Indian Judiciary needs certification from Pakistanis.India's democratic credentials are well respected world over.

I can suggest not to post RSS, Hindutva nonsense which all this is. Deal with it.

ASI is a government organistion, India a Hindu majority nation and a corrupt nation. Their evidence is weak, mainly bones. The ASI report has been criticised by many organistaions but the Hindu extremists of the RSS , BJP and other nutjobs started ripping their safron hairbands in excitement. The BJP follows Hindutva ideology, a right wing extreme form of Hindu nationalism, it's on their website if you would like to check. But you follow the same ideology but don't have the self respect to admit this even on a forum.

India is influenced by Hindu extremists, this is an open secret.

 

[Smiling Creed]

^ I am also curious about that. I hope that's okay. FC

Ok....here is one POV.

When he assumed his role as king of Ayodhya, he used to go out at night to check the ground realities in disguise. Once on one such visit, he heard a washerman throwing his wife out of home, as she had not returned home last night. He heard him saying, I am not Raja Ramchandra, who can keep his wife even after she stayed days/nights out of her home. He is hell bent on breaking all the rules (maryada), but I won't.

Hearing this, he discussed this with Sita and his ministers. His ministers adviced against his decision to drive sita out of raj mahal, but he took the step, to keep the rules (maryada). He was called "Maryada Purushottom"( Purushottom - Best of Men). These rules were made in Vedic ages and he was following them, knowing fully well that Sita is not fault.

Compare this to today's age - Will our leaders take even hear the general public?

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Why demolish Babri if RAM was born in Ayodhya? Why not declare and treat whole city as his birth-place? If a Masjid/Maseet can co-exist right next to Golden Temple (Mecca of the Sikhs) then what was issue there?

 

[Smiling Creed]

but then who was the biological father of those kids? Didn't u just say Seeta had a great character?

She was pregnant when she was banished.

 

[Khaleefa]

Babri demolition is a black spot on India's secularism and rightly so. It gace rise to religious extremism on both sides and there are still repercussions.

I have had these thoughts in my mind for a long time, putting them here for a discussion - I believe that Indian Muslims lost a huge opportunity to show their generosity and to get assimilated in the mainstream.

The 70s and 80s were tumultuous decades in India. Early nineties saw Rajeev Gandhi at the helm. He was a political novice and did whatever his political advisers said. There had been a history of Muslim appeasement (in smaller matters, overall they still lag behind) in India and there had been an anger in Hindus against it. The historic Shahbano judgement and Rajeev's unconstitutional reversal of it, fanned it even more.

Then comes the matter of Ram temple. Ram is one of the biggest Gods of Hindus, and his birthplace is very, very holy. Whereas Babri was just another mosque for Muslims. There had been umpteen attempts to explain this to Muslims and get only a little land where Ram was supposedly born and make a small temple there. Moderate sections of Muslims were ready for it, but hardliners vehemently against.

Advani exploited Rajeev's Muslim appeasement and this unwillingness by Muslims to concede even a little to the hilt. Most of the Hindus are not as strongly religious as Muslims are; I would put their numbers as high as 90% (there is a reason why BJP is out of power, and Mosi isn't a viable PM candidate). But even the moderates see Advani's PoV and it fanned anger. This culminated in Babru demolition, subsequent riots and it's after-effects can still be felt.

If only the Muslim leadership had shown little magnanimity, not only they would have won Hindus' hearts for ever, but would have also nipped the Hindu religious extremism for ever.

Your thoughts?

hhmmm....
How about Hindu extremists would have call it quits, rehabbed the masjid with their own funding and labor and respectfully invited Muslims to take over the premises and use it as a fully functional masjid IN AN ATTEMPT to win the hearts of muslims FOREVER ???

And so far as your assessment goes about BJP being out of power, mark my words and bookmark this thread. "Narendra Modi is the future Prime Minister of India".

 

[Bhaijaan]

Stupid questions, they were all Gods basically and none of them ever need sperms to exist.

 

[Singham]

This is a dead and buried issue. Indian Muslims or Hindus don't care abt this anymore.

 

[Khaleefa]

She was pregnant when she was banished.

and who got her pregnant if I may ask?

 

[Bhaijaan]

and who got her pregnant if I may ask?

It is believed that it was Lord Ram himself, nowhere does it say actually that it was divine pregnancy.

 

[Bhaijaan]

^ Actually it would be if it is Lord Ram because he was divine.

 

[Smiling Creed]

and who got her pregnant if I may ask?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama#Children

 

[TM Riddle]

and who got her pregnant if I may ask?

Rama of course

 

[Smiling Creed]

Why demolish Babri if RAM was born in Ayodhya? Why not declare and treat whole city as his birth-place? If a Masjid/Maseet can co-exist right next to Golden Temple (Mecca of the Sikhs) then what was issue there?

Read about Gyanvapi mosque.

 

[shan]

Babri Masjid is not worth it and especially after reading the comments of this thread. Just because people claim for the nation doesn't make that one.

Knowing the history of Gujarat and the possibility of Modi coming back to power, Babri Masjid is not worth it. Indian Muslim needs to stay away from the controversial land that may trigger the inevitable riot and possibility life-threatening for the community, Allahu Alim!.

Agreed, as Indian ppers say here that Hindus are sleeping. Now one can imagine what they will do if they wake, Indian muslims should continue to suffer in silince.

 

[Smiling Creed]

Agreed, as Indian ppers say here that Hindus are sleeping. Now one can imagine what they will do if they wake, Indian muslims should continue to suffer in silince.

That would be sad day if "Internet" Hindus do decide to wake up.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Allahabad High Court (Lucknow Bench) judgement in Ayodhya Ram Janmabhoomi
Babri Masjid land dispute case

Judgement of SU Khan: Summary

1. The disputed structure was constructed as mosque by or under orders of Babar.
2. It is not proved by direct evidence that premises in dispute including constructed portion belonged to Babar or the person who constructed the mosque or under whose orders it was constructed.
3. No temple was demolished for constructing the mosque.
4. Mosque was constructed over the ruins of temples which were lying in utter ruins since a very long time before the construction of mosque and some material thereof was used in construction of the mosque.
5. That for a very long time till the construction of the mosque it was treated/believed by Hindus that some where in a very large area of which premises in dispute is a very small part birth place of Lord Ram was situated, however, the belief did not relate to any specified small area within that bigger area specifically the premises in dispute.
6. That after some time of construction of the mosque Hindus started identifying the premises in dispute as exact birth place of Lord Ram or a place wherein exact birth place was situated.
7. That much before 1855 Ram Chabutra and Seeta Rasoi had come into existence and Hindus were worshipping in the same. It was very very unique and absolutely unprecedented situation that in side the boundary wall and compound of the mosque Hindu religious places were there which were actually being worshipped along with offerings of Namaz by Muslims in the mosque.
8. That in view of the above gist of the finding at serial no.7 both the parties Muslims as well as Hindus are held to be in joint possession of the entire premises in dispute.
9. That even though for the sake of convenience both the parties i.e. Muslims and Hindus were using and occupying different portions of the premises in dispute still it did not amount to formal partition and both continued to be in joint possession of the entire premises in dispute.
10. That both the parties have failed to prove commencement of their title hence by virtue of Section 110 Evidence Act both are held to be joint title holders on the basis of joint possession.
11. That for some decades before 1949 Hindus started treating/believing the place beneath the Central dome of mosque (where at present make sift temple stands) to be exact birth place of Lord Ram.
12. That idol was placed for the first time beneath the Central dome of the mosque in the early hours of 23.12.1949.
13. That in view of the above both the parties are declared to be joint title holders in possession of the entire premises in dispute and a preliminary decree to that effect is passed with the condition that at the time of actual partition by meets and bounds at the stage of preparation of final decree the portion beneath the Central dome where at present make sift temple stands will be allotted to the share of the Hindus.

 

[Singham]

Its a dead and buried issue. Just leave it as it is. Many youngsters born after 1990s don't know what it is and most of them don't care abt it. I hope all the old farts just die and leave this issue to new generation. The new generation does not care abt this nonsense.

 

[Sankalp]

Agreed, as Indian ppers say here that Hindus are sleeping. Now one can imagine what they will do if they wake, Indian muslims should continue to suffer in silince.

I think Pakistani muslims care abt Indian muslims more than Indian Muslims themselves
As SRK and Javed Akthar mentioned on record (I shall post the you tube videos later) - they are extremely happy in India and get immense respect. They are as much Indian as any Hindu. Sad to see my pakistani friends see it otherwise.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Not this again!!!

People fight for an invisible God who is completely dependent on faith, but could careless for a fellow human even if he is dying.

Keep fighting and killing each other like apes and lets see which God will show up first to stop the carnage

Even apes do not kill members of their own troop. They only kill if they are attacked by rival troops.

 

[mithun_minhas]

I have a simple suggestion...

There are thousands of temples and mosques all over India...

Why not leave that place for the Gods to decide? Let us wait and watch. If God does exist, he/she does not need a Ramchand or Salim to build a home for him/her. God is capable of handling himself.


Just leave that place and go pray else where. I bet there are many more Mosques and temples in Ayodhya.

Better yet, just sit at your home and pray. Nobody would ever bother you

 

[RexRex]

When people need physical structures and symbols to feel secure in their faith you know something is not right.
If it weren't for the blot of 92 and 01 , the BJP and the Congress would have had a proper two horse race that would have benefited India and concentrated on real issues like corruption.
Instead the much needed public /political discourse and media coverage on this have been derailed by these three communal tragedies, sikh riots included. Sad!

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

When people need physical structures and symbols to feel secure in their faith you know something is not right.
If it weren't for the blot of 92 and 01 , the BJP and the Congress would have had a proper two horse race that would have benefited India and concentrated on real issues like corruption.
Instead the much needed public /political discourse and media coverage on this have been derailed by these three communal tragedies, sikh riots included. Sad!

That cover allmost all of the humanity except some atheiest. what are you on about

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Babri Masjid - a lost opportunity for Indian muslims?

[/B]

oh the irony..

[/B]

oh the irony again...

And what is the irony?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Babri Masjid - a lost opportunity for Indian muslims?

I can suggest not to post RSS, Hindutva nonsense which all this is. Deal with it.

ASI is a government organistion, India a Hindu majority nation and a corrupt nation. Their evidence is weak, mainly bones. The ASI report has been criticised by many organistaions but the Hindu extremists of the RSS , BJP and other nutjobs started ripping their safron hairbands in excitement. The BJP follows Hindutva ideology, a right wing extreme form of Hindu nationalism, it's on their website if you would like to check. But you follow the same ideology but don't have the self respect to admit this even on a forum.

India is influenced by Hindu extremists, this is an open secret.

And i suggest you dont tell Indians on how India government should work and what should happen.Also dont issue certificates on which Indian organisation is what.There are credible global organisations that label people or institutions as extremists like UN declared Hafiz Saaed an extremist.

There were pillar and wall remains etc etc on that site.

If India just functioned on basis of what you said then i guess they could have torn down every masjid and built a temple.Dont think much would have happened againist that striaght after 1947.

Again as i said dont tell Indians how to run their country.If you have any credible global institution that has declared BJP as extremist or India as an extremist country else like you your post will have no credibility.

 

[Bhaijaan]

When he assumed his role as king of Ayodhya, he used to go out at night to check the ground realities in disguise. Once on one such visit, he heard a washerman throwing his wife out of home, as she had not returned home last night. He heard him saying, I am not Raja Ramchandra, who can keep his wife even after she stayed days/nights out of her home. He is hell bent on breaking all the rules (maryada), but I won't.

Hearing this, he discussed this with Sita and his ministers. His ministers adviced against his decision to drive sita out of raj mahal, but he took the step, to keep the rules (maryada). He was called "Maryada Purushottom"( Purushottom - Best of Men). These rules were made in Vedic ages and he was following them, knowing fully well that Sita is not fault.

Compare this to today's age - Will our leaders take even hear the general public?

Exactly!

It's Lord Ram himself who screwed Indian society forever through that act. Instead of slapping that stupid washerman right in his face for mistreating his wife and teaching him to show more faith in her, he let it happen and by giving the same treatment to Sita mata he just left a poor legacy behind for generations to follow. That no matter if your sister/mother was honourable, if the pathetic society is gossiping about her character you just abandon her. God knows how many women have suffered and even died in Hindustan since then because of this mentality. Sita Mata even went through Agni pareeksha. Wonder how many women even suffered that fate later on, there must have been a lot. Can't ever doubt those backward baboons we have had.

 

[Smiling Creed]

Exactly!

It's Lord Ram himself who screwed Indian society forever through that act. Instead of slapping that stupid washerman right in his face for mistreating his wife and teaching him to show more faith in her, he let it happen and by giving the same treatment to Sita mata he just left a poor legacy behind for generations to follow. That no matter if your sister/mother was honourable, if the pathetic society is gossiping about her character you just abandon her. God knows how many women have suffered and even died in Hindustan since then because of this mentality. Sita Mata even went through Agni pareeksha. Wonder how many women even suffered that fate later on, there must have been a lot. Can't ever doubt those backward baboons we have had.

There are two views to look into this -

View #1 - Lord Ram, not willing to use his mind, trying to appease his subject did the unthinkable and threw Sita out.

View #2 - King Ram, knew that once he looses respect from his subject, his rule will always be questioned.

It was a fight between a husband and king.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think Pakistani muslims care abt Indian muslims more than Indian Muslims themselves
As SRK and Javed Akthar mentioned on record (I shall post the you tube videos later) - they are extremely happy in India and get immense respect. They are as much Indian as any Hindu. Sad to see my pakistani friends see it otherwise.

It's hard to tell really. On all the boards I've seen, you rarely hear from Indian Muslims, partly the reason I suspect why topics like this get posted on a Pakistani boards rather than Indian. Indian Muslims are probably too scared to voice an opinion in case it unleashes mob violence across the cities.

 

[battler]

i agree with fc on what he says about lord ram.it was disgraceful what he did to sita.(and before people hate on me let me say i'm a hindu).