Can India really rely on Mohammad Shami?

[Drreddymd]

Since his debut he has been plagued with injuries and he never played a full season untill now. After world cup he took 18 months break to recover from knee surgery but he didnt last even 2 full tours.

he was rested from Nz odis as well to be fit for eng tests and he lasted 3 tests in that series. Now he is not selected for first 2 tests of aus series as well after missing eng odi, t 20 s, bang test

 

[TahirFan]

By your logic, the same can be said of Dale Steyn

Can the Proteas really rely on Dale Steyn

 

[Zak_Fan]

A shame really. He is head and shoulders above any Indian fast bowler but has never really worked hard on his fitness. I remember Kohli calling him the laziest Indian cricketer on some show.

 

[Drreddymd]

By your logic, the same can be said of Dale Steyn

Can the Proteas really rely on Dale Steyn

What logic r u speaking of? A guy who from the start of his career is suffering from injuries is being compared to a player who rarely missed a test untill last year isnt it?

 

[Drreddymd]

A shame really. He is head and shoulders above any Indian fast bowler but has never really worked hard on his fitness. I remember Kohli calling him the laziest Indian cricketer on some show.

Why is he getting repeatedly injured as he doesnt look over weight like zaheer used to be in his time?

 

[Zak_Fan]

Why is he getting repeatedly injured as he doesnt look over weight like zaheer used to be in his time?

He doesn't look athletic or fit either. If you look at the likes of Kohli and Jadeja, you will see that over time, their bodies have evolved as a result of the hard work they put in. Shami on the other hand still looks like some random guy you just picked from the street. He hasn't changed at all. I blame lack of effort.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

A bit like Zaheer, at least Zak was more fitter in his early days.

 

[sarthak]

Good thread and I think this might come back to trouble India on overseas tours.

Right now, the spinners are getting a sizeable number of wickets to cover him but outside, Yadav, Bhuvi and Ishant will really require a fit Shami.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

India don't rely on Shami. We won our last 3-4 tests without Shami.

Although having him does add a bit to our pace attack but we don't rely on him completely.

Now if Ashwin was someone that'd miss out, it would hurt us bad.

 

[Tekcirc]

Good thread and I think this might come back to trouble India on overseas tours.

Right now, the spinners are getting a sizeable number of wickets to cover him but outside, Yadav, Bhuvi and Ishant will really require a fit Shami.

They are doing quite well in Shami's absence. India has the best bench strength of fast bowlers right now compared to when we struggled to have decent pacers in playing XI.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

What more frustrating is that India is playing regular 5 bowlers and rotation in odi to save fasters from injury and they are still getting injuries
At least in Zaheer khan time khan use to have lot of work load.

 

[Stumper]

Yes he is our main bowler but now a day's all of our bowlers are putting lot of efforts to take wickets, which you can see from past few series, everyone has stepped up. Umesh, ATG Ishant and Bhuvi to had worked upon setting up the batsmen be it with reverse swing or normal swing i clearly see they are bowling to a plan, which in yester years was a dream to expect from Indian Fast bowlers.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

I would like to see Umesh, Aaron and Ishant fully fit in a test match. Bhuvi and Shami are injury prone.

Bumrah and Nehra are ODI and T20 specialist death bowlers who don't play other formats.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Shami is our all conditions pacer.

Not having him for overseas leg will hurt.

 

[sarthak]

They are doing quite well in Shami's absence. India has the best bench strength of fast bowlers right now compared to when we struggled to have decent pacers in playing XI.

It will look all hunky dory now because they know that they will share the workload with spinners or play second fiddle to them.

Overseas, things will be very different where the onus is on fast bowlers to take 20 wickets. In a 3 or 4 man pace attack, one or two under-performers will stand out. Don't forget that Shami was part of several overseas tours in the last cycle and is still the first pick in the attack.

Let's see how these 3 perform against Australia. They have only started gelling as a pace attack, so needn't overhype them. Also, benchmarking with India's past is not going to help because many of those bowlers were quite mediocre.

 

[Drreddymd]

India don't rely on Shami. We won our last 3-4 tests without Shami.

Although having him does add a bit to our pace attack but we don't rely on him completely.

Now if Ashwin was someone that'd miss out, it would hurt us bad.

In eng series he is the stand out pacer in entire series even after missing 2 tests

 

[Drreddymd]

It will look all hunky dory now because they know that they will share the workload with spinners or play second fiddle to them.

Overseas, things will be very different where the onus is on fast bowlers to take 20 wickets. In a 3 or 4 man pace attack, one or two under-performers will stand out. Don't forget that Shami was part of several overseas tours in the last cycle and is still the first pick in the attack.

Let's see how these 3 perform against Australia. They have only started gelling as a pace attack, so needn't overhype them. Also, benchmarking with India's past is not going to help because many of those bowlers were quite mediocre.

Absolutely. In india spinners can cover for his absence but in overseas we will struggle big time

 

[SandyB]

We still haven't figured out how to effectively manage pacers. Same can be said about Australia too .They have the best bench strength with pacers, but yet many suffer too many injuries..

Steyn's career has been a masterclass is player management by CSA. I don't think Steyn is as durable a bowler like the W's or Ambrose/Walsh.. He has been managed exceedingly well..

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If he really wants to prolong his career then he should stay away from 2 months of mumbo jumbo cricket. He is our best pacer and a product of domestic cricket. He gave his everything in the World Cup 2015 despite getting injured. He is a must in champions trophy.

 

[JaDed]

We still haven't figured out how to effectively manage pacers. Same can be said about Australia too .They have the best bench strength with pacers, but yet many suffer too many injuries..

Steyn's career has been a masterclass is player management by CSA. I don't think Steyn is as durable a bowler like the W's or Ambrose/Walsh.. He has been managed exceedingly well..

I think we have started improving ,last year or something BCCI paid Shami extra money for losing out on IPL so he can concentrate on INTL.

http://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/mohammad-shami-gets-rs-2-2-crore-for-loss-of-pay-in-ipl-2015-2907145/
[MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] that was possible because of "IPL" money.

 

[Drreddymd]

If he really wants to prolong his career then he should stay away from 2 months of mumbo jumbo cricket. He is our best pacer and a product of domestic cricket. He gave his everything in the World Cup 2015 despite getting injured. He is a must in champions trophy.

Please for gods sake stop. He has fitness issues from the beginning and it was not due to ipl.
So tell me what has ipl got to do with his recent injuries?

He didnt play 2015 ipl but bcci paid him 2.2 crore as a loss of pay due to his injury.

 

[Drreddymd]

Guys do u think ipl is the cause of his injury problems ?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Please for gods sake stop. He has fitness issues from the beginning and it was not due to ipl.
So tell me what has ipl got to do with his recent injuries?

He didnt play 2015 ipl but bcci paid him 2.2 crore as a loss of pay due to his injury.

Meh you should learn to read properly and then put your questions.

I said in order to prolong his career he should avoid these leagues. I would rather have him rest during pyjama league and play in champions trophy because he is injury prone. Where did I say that IPL is responsible for his injuries? Don't you want a fit Mohammed Shami too for champions trophy?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

[MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] that was possible because of "IPL" money.

What part of my post you guys didn't get? I just said in order to prolong his career he should stay away from these leagues because he is an injury prone player. Why should he waste his energy in these leagues when Indian team needs his services the most? BCCI paid him because he performed in the world cup 2015 even when he was injured.

 

[Drreddymd]

Meh you should learn to read properly and then put your questions.

I said in order to prolong his career he should avoid these leagues. I would rather have him rest during pyjama league and play in champions trophy because he is injury prone. Where did I say that IPL is responsible for his injuries? Don't you want a fit Mohammed Shami too for champions trophy?

If ipl is not the cause then how can u be so certain that he will be fit if he doesn't play ipl?

Who said we dont want fully fit shami in champions trophy?

So u dont want a fully fit shami for important test series like Australia but for a meaningless champions trophy

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If ipl is not the cause then how can u be so certain that he will be fit if he doesn't play ipl?

Who said we dont want fully fit shami in champions trophy?

So u dont want a fully fit shami for important test series like Australia but for a meaningless champions trophy

Champions Trophy is meaningless now? For you bilaterals are useless, champions trophy is uselss. Only thing important for you is IPL where you claim to find talent that will represent india in intl. matches. After all this you want me to take fans like you seriously.

 

[Drreddymd]

What part of my post you guys didn't get? I just said in order to prolong his career he should stay away from these leagues because he is an injury prone player. Why should he waste his energy in these leagues when Indian team needs his services the most? BCCI paid him because he performed in the world cup 2015 even when he was injured.

Because he has to make a living as well isn't it ? As u r telling he is an injury prone player atleast ipl gives him safety isnt it ?

So for the sake of indian team he has to sacrifice his future and satisfy fans like u

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

So for the sake of indian team he has to sacrifice his future and satisfy fans like u

Obviously I want him to play for India because that will benefit both the indian team and him. You are making no sense here and are just posting for the sake of it.

 

[Drreddymd]

Champions Trophy is meaningless now? For you bilaterals are useless, champions trophy is uselss. Only thing important for you is IPL where you claim to find talent that will represent india in intl. matches. After all this you want me to take fans like you seriously.

So what about the important test series ?

 

[Drreddymd]

Obviously I want him to play for India because that will benefit both the indian team and him. You are making no sense here and are just posting for the sake of it.

Why he has to lose his earnings? Tell me?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

So what about the important test series ?

I can't help you when you see IPL everywhere. Read my first post in this thread i didn't even take IPL's name and just said he should avoid these mumbo jumbo leagues. This will be the advice of any cricket fan to protect his player that he should concentrate more on intl games now that he has made his name in the intl cricket. Obviously this is too much to understand for a guy who thinks every series is useless and test cricket has no future.

 

[Drreddymd]

Guys i created a thread on his fitness problems and why he is getting injured frequently.

Instead of explaining why he gets injured repeatedly and what he has to do to improve his fitness this guy came with a magical solution that skipping ipl will miraculously provide answers to his problems.

Do u guys agree with that kind of reasoning?

 

[rhony]

What part of my post you guys didn't get? I just said in order to prolong his career he should stay away from these leagues because he is an injury prone player. Why should he waste his energy in these leagues when Indian team needs his services the most? BCCI paid him because he performed in the world cup 2015 even when he was injured.

I think he should play tests and IPL for financial security. His body can't handle the stress of ODIs and T20Is

 

[rhony]

Guys i created a thread on his fitness problems and why he is getting injured frequently.

Instead of explaining why he gets injured repeatedly and what he has to do to improve his fitness this guy came with a magical solution that skipping ipl will miraculously provide answers to his problems.

Do u guys agree with that kind of reasoning?

He has a point though. Players tend to play prematurely without proper injury rehabilitation just for the cash in IPL. IIRC, Shami did the same a couple of years ago. Good pacers are a rare resource in Indian cricket. You can't deprive Shami of IPL or it's cash. He should focus on IPL and tests for India. His body can't cope with ODIs and T20Is. It is not good to be injured so many times in your mid 20s

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Guys i created a thread on his fitness problems and why he is getting injured frequently.

Instead of explaining why he gets injured repeatedly and what he has to do to improve his fitness this guy came with a magical solution that skipping ipl will miraculously provide answers to his problems.

Do u guys agree with that kind of reasoning?

Injruy prone players should pick and choose which series they should play or skip. IPL is not that important for him at this stage of his career. He can play in it once he crosses the age of 34. You asked for a solution and this is my solution to lessen his burden. Whether you like it or not that is a different story but you have no right to stop people from posting.

 

[Drreddymd]

I can't help you when you see IPL everywhere. Read my first post in this thread i didn't even take IPL's name and just said he should avoid these mumbo jumbo leagues. This will be the advice of any cricket fan to protect his player that he should concentrate more on intl games now that he has made his name in the intl cricket. Obviously this is too much to understand for a guy who thinks every series is useless and test cricket has no future.

Dont try to act too smart. What is that mumbo jumbo league that lasts for 2 months?

U didnt explain why he should lose his earnings? Are no other indian bowlers playing in mumbo-jumbo leagues?

Its never a players fault if he gets repeatedly injured? Instead of attributing responsibility to the player and work on his fitness u r blaming something else

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Dont try to act too smart. What is that mumbo jumbo league that lasts for 2 months?

U didnt explain why he should lose his earnings? Are no other indian bowlers playing in mumbo-jumbo leagues?

Its never a players fault if he gets repeatedly injured? Instead of attributing responsibility to the player and work on his fitness u r blaming something else

lol where did i blame? I said he should avoid these leagues to prolong his career. If you can't understand this simple sentence and are assuming something else then that is not my problem.

 

[Drreddymd]

He has a point though. Players tend to play prematurely without proper injury rehabilitation just for the cash in IPL. IIRC, Shami did the same a couple of years ago. Good pacers are a rare resource in Indian cricket. You can't deprive Shami of IPL or it's cash. He should focus on IPL and tests for India. His body can't cope with ODIs and T20Is. It is not good to be injured so many times in your mid 20s

But for him his life is not important. He should be a slave to the national team and show his patriotism by losing his earnings and be a good citizen

 

[Drreddymd]

lol where did i blame? I said he should avoid these leagues to prolong his career. If you can't understand this simple sentence and are assuming something else then that is not my problem.

So u don't want him to improve his fitness and avoid injuries isnt it? Just skip ipl and he will be fine?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

But for him his life is not important. He should be a slave to the national team and show his patriotism by losing his earnings and be a good citizen

Yeah this is why i wanted him to prolong his career? Playing for India also doesn't mean anything for you now. I can understand when guys like [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] or [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] discuss this with me. They value domestic cricket too but you are just an IPL fan not a cricket fan. And you claim to have been watching cricket since 80's?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

So u don't want him to improve his fitness and avoid injuries isnt it? Just skip ipl and he will be fine?

He is a human not an animal. 2-3 months of rest will help his fitness and will recharge him. You surely don't have any idea about how both mental and physical rest works. BCCI can pay him again for missing IPL and playing in an important champions trophy.

 

[Drreddymd]

Yeah this is why i wanted him to prolong his career? Playing for India also doesn't mean anything for you now. I can understand when guys like [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] or [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] discuss this with me. They value domestic cricket too but you are just an IPL fan not a cricket fan. And you claim to have been watching cricket since 80's?

Where has i said ipl is everything and international cricket is meaningless?
Show me one statement where i said so

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Where has i said ipl is everything and international cricket is meaningless?
Show me one statement where i said so

Did you not say bilaterals are useless? Did you not say champions trophy is useless? If these are not international cricket then what is?

 

[Drreddymd]

Did you not say bilaterals are useless? Did you not say champions trophy is useless? If these are not international cricket then what is?

Where has i said ipl is everything? Please show me the post.

 

[Drreddymd]

Did you not say bilaterals are useless? Did you not say champions trophy is useless? If these are not international cricket then what is?

Why is champions trophy more important than a test series against australia? Explain? I made this thread because of him skipping important test series due to his injuries but u have no explanation for that and just blabber about champions trophy isnt it?

What has champions trophy got to do with him skipping aus series?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Where has i said ipl is everything? Please show me the post.

Where did I say 'I hate IPL' but you still call me an IPL hater don't you? Apply this same logic to call yourself an IPL lover and intl cricket hater.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Why is champions trophy more important than a test series against australia? Explain? I made this thread because of him skipping important test series due to his injuries but u have no explanation for that and just blabber about champions trophy isnt it?

What has champions trophy got to do with him skipping aus series?

That is india's next intl cricket assignment after IPL sir. He will have enough rest before it.

 

[BaaliSoda]

The way Shami has improved as a bowler (and how crucial he was for our test wins) post his WC injury comeback (till he had another injury break, recently) and the frequency of his injuries, I would be tempted to have him play just test cricket (like Philander is used by Saffers) for us. For ODIs and T20 we can afford to not have him in the squad.

It is also true that Snami is way too injury prone. I think our injury management program for pacers needs more technical expertise (Saying this, Australia despite having numerous modern facilities/programs and coaches doesn't stop them from having their promising pacers getting break down way too frequently, over the last few years) along with bold decision making from the team's think tank (Kumble and MSK's team is doing this bit by bit, already) of selecting crucial players only for more important series (à la Tests and major ICC tournaments) than having them selected for every JAMODI/T20s.

 

[Abdullah719]

[MENTION=142737]Drreddymd[/MENTION] [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION]

Cut it out. Post respectfully or don't bother interacting with each other.

 

[Drreddymd]

That is india's next intl cricket assignment after IPL sir. He will have enough rest before it.

I am worried about our next immediate series. Thats why i made a thread about it? I never made a thread about ipl and never said that players should skip international cricket for ipl ?

 

[aloo paratha]

Guys i created a thread on his fitness problems and why he is getting injured frequently.

Instead of explaining why he gets injured repeatedly and what he has to do to improve his fitness this guy came with a magical solution that skipping ipl will miraculously provide answers to his problems.

Do u guys agree with that kind of reasoning?

That's not even what he said...

If he gets injured, it is because he isn't fit enough to play many games. As our priority and hopefully yours is international cricket, we'd rather have him play internationals than a 2 month league.

Makes sense. I'd say the same fr Steyn, or any injury prone player.

 

[aloo paratha]

Where has i said ipl is everything and international cricket is meaningless?
Show me one statement where i said so

"So u dont want a fully fit shami for important test series like Australia but for a meaningless champions trophy"

 

[aloo paratha]

Why is champions trophy more important than a test series against australia? Explain? I made this thread because of him skipping important test series due to his injuries but u have no explanation for that and just blabber about champions trophy isnt it?

What has champions trophy got to do with him skipping aus series?

He's already injured how do you expect him to play the AUS series??????????

 

[Rightarmfast]

Shami has always been on and off the team. So we really dont depend upon him. But we have a good bench strength, not to mention the domestic cricket is having a good pool of fast bowlers who are bowling consistently around 90mph. So, I dont see how anyone's presence of absence is going to affect things much.

 

[Bilal7]

He's your best bowler by a mile, across formats, so you'd best hope you can.

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

He doesn't look athletic or fit either. If you look at the likes of Kohli and Jadeja, you will see that over time, their bodies have evolved as a result of the hard work they put in. Shami on the other hand still looks like some random guy you just picked from the street. He hasn't changed at all. I blame lack of effort.

Really? Someone who has had a career threatening injury (after playing through serious pain during the WC), had multiple injuries, made a comeback and bowled at 140+ in tests isn't putting enough effort?

In 2016 he played 10 tests. Thats not bad at all. With Shami, Umesh, Bhuvi and Ishant, we should be shuffling the bowlers around every two tests to give them enough rest and manage their workload.

Right now, I think the focus is to have him fit for Champions Trophy. Will be a key bowler for us there. vs BD and Aus, we will manage without him.

 

[Bilal7]

Shami is trying his level best to be a rarity for India: A good fast bowler. To say he has lacked hard work is silly. By default, a fast bowler works harder than any batsman or spinner and just because he's not interested in having abs doesn't mean he's not running his socks off just by bowling in the nets.

 

[roshanrocks]

Indian team management is not going to induct Shami right back into the team once he says he is fit.

Even if he had regained full fitness, Shami couldn't have made the squad as per the guidelines set by the recently-appointed coach Anil Kumble, who wants any player vying to make a national comeback to prove form and fitness at the domestic level. Shami wasn't part of the East Zone squad in the Syed Mushtaq Ali trophy.

India can depend on him once he proves his match fitness..

 

[Drreddymd]

He's already injured how do you expect him to play the AUS series??????????

Thats why i made a thread about his repeated injuries isnt it? Why is he getting repeatedly injured and can india rely on him but instead of explaining why he is injured repeatedly and what he should do to improve his fitness u r blaming ipl for his injuries right?

So him skipping ipl will solve all his injury problems isnt it?

Why he got injured in the first place? Is it due to ipl? Due to lack of fitness ?

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Thats why i made a thread about his repeated injuries isnt it? Why is he getting repeatedly injured and can india rely on him but instead of explaining why he is injured repeatedly and what he should do to improve his fitness u r blaming ipl for his injuries right?

So him skipping ipl will solve all his injury problems isnt it?

Why he got injured in the first place? Is it due to ipl? Due to lack of fitness ?

People are telling you injuries are part of a fast bowler's career. He had a career threatening injury and was almost written off. Made a comeback to play 10 tests in 2016 on not so supportive pitches which is massive.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

He's our best pacer hands down so...
Good thing is we have a good team at the moment with a decent pace attack. If he was playing ten years ago and got injured, that would have been a bigger loss to the team.

 

[Drreddymd]

Just because he is injury prone means he is not absolved of the blame isnt it? He should by now understand what he has to do to prevent injuries.

 

[Princejain191]

I don't think India has a choice, regardless of the fact that they defo would if there was one, because Shami is by some distance India's best fast bowler - home or away.

 

[PakLFC]

From the little I have seen there is nothing special in Shami at all. By Indian bowling standards he probably is a special pacer.

 

[Drreddymd]

I don't think India has a choice, regardless of the fact that they defo would if there was one, because Shami is by some distance India's best fast bowler - home or away.

He is absolutely India's best bowler but he is too injury prone and india will suffer when we tour outside as our spinners will be ineffective and we need our best 3 pacers and we cannot afford to miss him

 

[Drreddymd]

From the little I have seen there is nothing special in Shami at all. By Indian bowling standards he probably is a special pacer.

He is not special by any means. India would be very happy if he reaches zak level

 

[aloo paratha]

Thats why i made a thread about his repeated injuries isnt it? Why is he getting repeatedly injured and can india rely on him but instead of explaining why he is injured repeatedly and what he should do to improve his fitness u r blaming ipl for his injuries right?

So him skipping ipl will solve all his injury problems isnt it?

Why he got injured in the first place? Is it due to ipl? Due to lack of fitness ?

No one blamed IPL FOR his injuries. If he doesn't play, he gets time to rest, hence, less chance of injury.

You won't understand though so whatever.

 

[Ab Fan]

India doesn't rely on him in Asia.

Outside Asia, he is inproven.

 

[Rightarmfast]

From the little I have seen there is nothing special in Shami at all. By Indian bowling standards he probably is a special pacer.

Shami is not special at all. You got that right. Although he is Asia's best pacer by a mile, but not special by any means!

 

[PakLFC]

Shami is not special at all. You got that right. Although he is Asia's best pacer by a mile, but not special by any means!

No I think even at the moment Amir is better then him. Want to see Shami performing successfully abroad where Bharat always struggles. He is special by Indian standards when it comes to producing second rate pace men. Pak standards in this department are far higher.

 

[Rightarmfast]

No I think even at the moment Amir is better then him. Want to see Shami performing successfully abroad where Bharat always struggles. He is special by Indian standards when it comes to producing second rate pace men. Pak standards in this department are far higher.

I think you missed watching Amir's bowling lately!

 

[PakLFC]

I think you missed watching Amir's bowling lately!

He was decent against the Aussies. Not following the PPL if he is representing anyone.

 

[Hitman]

He was decent against the Aussies. Not following the PPL if he is representing anyone.

Yea, extremely decent with a decent average of 62 and strike rate of 115 in that series.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Yea, extremely decent with a decent average of 62 and strike rate of 115 in that series.

Compared to how some other superstars fared, this indeed is quite decent.