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Can Pakistan defeat England in upcoming Test series without Yasir Shah?

MenInG

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Simple question.

Remember he had bucket loads of wickets last time but that was late summer....
 
Yes of course we can. He wouldn't have bowled much due to the nature of the conditions. This series will be won by how we bat against the new ball and how we bowl with the new ball.
 
We also had Misbah and Younis.

I think this time our batting is weaker.

I would say Pakistan can beat England based on bowling, but winning an actual Test will require twice the effort.
 
We will only win the series if Amir pitches the ball up and doesn’t waste the new ball.

Need him to take a 10fer in both tests.
 
We will only win the series if Amir pitches the ball up and doesn’t waste the new ball.

Need him to take a 10fer in both tests.

Aap khawab dekhney chor dein. I would like him to take at least 8 wickets in 2 tests.
 
With or without Yasir Shah and even if the pacers click like they did in the 2010 tour it won't be enough to avoid defeat as we saw then because the batting is below international standard. That is the hard reality we have to accept when there was no planning process to replace Misbah and Younis.
 
This is an excellent opportunity for Pak and India to win a series in England.. Currently they are very poor side with very unsettled batting and an aging bowling lineup
 
Pakistan won't but they have outperformed England completely over this decade.

3-0 in 2012
2-0 in 2015
2-2 in 2016

i.e. 7-2. No team has pumelled England as much as Pakistan have done in last 6-7 years.
 
Yasir was second highest wicket taker in the 2016 series
 
Yes we can. Our fast bowlers have to step up. It will be interesting to see Hassan Ali's bowling in England. He can be the decisive factor.
 
Can't recall too many spinners bowling their team to victory in early summer Tests in England so Yasir, as important he is to our attack, wouldn't have got many overs.

The key is for our brittle batting to hold together and somehow limp to 300 in each game.
 
Haan Ji. And we will do it.
If only Amir pitches the new ball a bit fuller.
But I expect Hasan Ali will wreak a havoc with the ball.

Let's go for it
Hopefully we will see the pushups again.

:salute
 
I think Pakistan will win.

Cook looks done, the other opener and #3 are shaky, Root keeps losing concentration when he gets to fifty, Stokes has a court trial hanging over him, Bairstow is being handicapped with the gloves, Beard has sunk and there is no test match spinner.

The one advantage England have is their seam attack which will get wickets given helpful tracks (not a certainty) and a bit of moist rising air.
 
How are Pakistan touring England again ? I remember the last series being as recent as 2016. Anyway , it should be a good series. This is probably Anderson's final summer.
 
How are Pakistan touring England again ? I remember the last series being as recent as 2016. Anyway , it should be a good series. This is probably Anderson's final summer.

I think only 2 Tests this time? And one against Ireland AFAIK.
 
I think Pakistan will win.

Cook looks done, the other opener and #3 are shaky, Root keeps losing concentration when he gets to fifty, Stokes has a court trial hanging over him, Bairstow is being handicapped with the gloves, Beard has sunk and there is no test match spinner.

The one advantage England have is their seam attack which will get wickets given helpful tracks (not a certainty) and a bit of moist rising air.

I was going to say England's bowling attack is probably the weakest point, but of Jimmy's wickets, about 17% of them have been at Lord's! : http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...e=results;type=bowling;view=dismissal_summary
 
How are Pakistan touring England again ? I remember the last series being as recent as 2016. Anyway , it should be a good series. This is probably Anderson's final summer.

Only 2 Tests, this time, Pakistan are back in England next year for 5 ODIs and 1 T20 match.
 
I think Pakistan will win.

Cook looks done, the other opener and #3 are shaky, Root keeps losing concentration when he gets to fifty, Stokes has a court trial hanging over him, Bairstow is being handicapped with the gloves, Beard has sunk and there is no test match spinner.

The one advantage England have is their seam attack which will get wickets given helpful tracks (not a certainty) and a bit of moist rising air.

we only have one proven test batsmen ( Azhar) and another who has shown he is competent against pace (Haris)

you guys should win if you make a green track
 
PAK's chances are actually higher without Yasir. If he was fit, it would have been difficult to drop him. In those 2 Tests, he won't have done much with ball, even containing job is tough for a leggi in UK for the moistly condition.

If PAK has to win, it has to be unreal performance by 3 pacers - Amir, Rahat and may be Asif. On top of that Azhar, Asad, Babar has to bat well and catching has to be top notch. Of the 3 formats, Safrfaz is easily the weakest in Test, as Captain and as WK as well, hence he has to pull socks and be positive on field. Poms have got real thrashing down under, and I expect them to come back hard at home.
 
PAK's chances are actually higher without Yasir. If he was fit, it would have been difficult to drop him. In those 2 Tests, he won't have done much with ball, even containing job is tough for a leggi in UK for the moistly condition.

If PAK has to win, it has to be unreal performance by 3 pacers - Amir, Rahat and may be Asif. On top of that Azhar, Asad, Babar has to bat well and catching has to be top notch. Of the 3 formats, Safrfaz is easily the weakest in Test, as Captain and as WK as well, hence he has to pull socks and be positive on field. Poms have got real thrashing down under, and I expect them to come back hard at home.

You think Asif would make a big difference here?
 
You think Asif would make a big difference here?

If he is fit enough to bowl for average 23-25 overs per day (of 90s overs) at an average pace of 127K. His skills are exceptional and he is still the best new ball bowler in PAK.

Ideally, PAK should bowl first in both Tests if Sarfraz wins the toss (without Yasir, that's one of the pre-condition to have a chance), on Day 1, I am expecting Asif to bowl 29 overs, because he'll be fresh on 1st day of a Test -

1st spell : 9 overs (80 minutes)
20 minutes rest : 3 overs before Lunch
6 overs after lunch
6 overs combined either side of tea with a 55-63 overs old ball
5 overs with 2nd ball, at the end.

If he can do that at <3 economy, other 3 pacers (Amir, Hasan, Rahat) can bowl absolute flat out for 52-55 overs max, without looking at economy. 5-8 tight overs from Hari in between.

Next morning 6/7 overs with semi new ball - Poms shouldn't last more than 1st hour of Day 2 for a score in between 319 to 343, unless it's like a 575 per batting condition. Rest is on batsmen, to take a 3 digit lead - something like 426 or 450.

Pom comes to bat an hour before stumps on Day 3 - they'll go to 4th lunch with slight lead and 5 down.

PAK should chase 170, comfortably - this Pom attack couldn't split Sodhi/Wegnar for 3.5 hours, even with a new ball in between.
 
Backing Bobby to come good in England.

As do I, but we have to be real here

Most of all I want to see a consistent performance from Asad, not just a ton in a loosing cause to save his spot.

He has given very little when you consider he has had 8 years of constant selection
 
Depends on Amir. If he unleashes his beast mode, Pak batting can just about manage to outbat Eng. It has to be a low scoring series for Pak to win.
 
Let’s see if Hasan can take test cricket by storm.

He actually got injured in his first Test match. I think the likes of him and Amir are more suited to the glitz and glamour of the shorter format and do not have it in them to grind it out.
 
He actually got injured in his first Test match. I think the likes of him and Amir are more suited to the glitz and glamour of the shorter format and do not have it in them to grind it out.

Maybe, but if the conditions are helpful then they can trundle and still cause havoc.
 
England far too strong for us with or without Yasir. A victory would require Azhar Ali getting a bucketload of runs but he's going to be coming out and facing the new cherry regularly. I don't see any bowlers in our team who's going to rip through the England batting line up. Barring freak individual performances it's hard to see anything but 2-0 England.
 
Maybe, but if the conditions are helpful then they can trundle and still cause havoc.

It's not about trundling, even Abbas has a good to great record. It's about not having the willpower, determination, resilience for the longer format. I mean if you can make your living playing T20s, T20s/ODIs while bowling 2, 4 or 10 overs maximum, why put your career in jeopardy by bowling 12-15+ overs per day for 5 continuous days?
 
Pakistan won't but they have outperformed England completely over this decade.

3-0 in 2012
2-0 in 2015
2-2 in 2016

i.e. 7-2. No team has pumelled England as much as Pakistan have done in last 6-7 years.

No quite... Australia in the last 3 series:

5-0 in 13/14
2-3 in 15
4-0 in 17/18

for a combined score of 11-3, a slightly better W/L ratio than 7-2.
 
Our pace attack has to be Amir, Hasan and Wahab
No need of trundlers like Rahat and Abbas and we want bowlers who can bat because runs will have to come from tail too.
Shadab should replace Yasir

My XI would be

1) Sami
2) Imam
3) Azhar
4) Babar
5) Harris
6) Asad
7) Shadab
8) Sarfaraz
9) Amir
10) Hassan
11) Wahab
 
Yes we can. The onus will increase on the batsmen to score more runs in the absence of our trump card, Yasir. England, historically struggle against subcontinental spinners. I think it will end 1-1. Should and still can add a third Test.
 
No. No team replies on one player more than we do. If Yasir was going to be ineffective, we weren't going to win. If he doesn't play. we will not win. Our batsmen don't win us game and we don't have a single established quality test pace bowler if Amir insists on trundling at 135 KPH at short of a length.
 
1-1.

I think Pak will win a Test (prob Lord's). Early summer. Pacers will get something and England are unsettled.
Amir, Hasan and probably Wahab. Don't rate Abbas at all. Young Shadab will play and can prove useful v England esp in a secondary role. 5th bowler in Fahim will ease many a burden.

Pak bat quite deep with such a team.
 
No. No team replies on one player more than we do. If Yasir was going to be ineffective, we weren't going to win. If he doesn't play. we will not win. Our batsmen don't win us game and we don't have a single established quality test pace bowler if Amir insists on trundling at 135 KPH at short of a length.

Actually last time round our batsmen such as Azhar, Misbah and Younis were instrumental in our victory.
 
Simple question.

Remember he had bucket loads of wickets last time but that was late summer....
Yasir Shah would have been unselectable in green, soggy May conditions - just as he had to be dropped in NZ in November 2016.

Pakistan need four quicks and an all-rounder in May conditions. And no Shan Masood.

I would select:

1. Imam-ul-Haq
2. Azhar Ali
3. Azad Shafiq
4. Babar Azam
5. Haris Sohail
6. Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
7. Aamer Yamin
8. Shadab Khan
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Hasan Ali
11. Mohammad Abbas

It’s too late to get a visa for Mohammad Asif. In fact, the team really ought to be flying out now, not in 3 weeks.
 
Yasir Shah would have been unselectable in green, soggy May conditions - just as he had to be dropped in NZ in November 2016.

Pakistan need four quicks and an all-rounder in May conditions. And no Shan Masood.

I would select:

1. Imam-ul-Haq
2. Azhar Ali
3. Azad Shafiq
4. Babar Azam
5. Haris Sohail
6. Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
7. Aamer Yamin
8. Shadab Khan
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Hasan Ali
11. Mohammad Abbas

It’s too late to get a visa for Mohammad Asif. In fact, the team really ought to be flying out now, not in 3 weeks.


Why? I think PAK will fly in early May, that's 3 weeks at least. Is it for his past record?
 
Actually last time round our batsmen such as Azhar, Misbah and Younis were instrumental in our victory.

The only common factor in our wins was Yasir and his 10-fer at Lords and 5-fer at the Oval
 
It will be tough obviously considering our team is in transition but England is easily the weakest of all SENA nations. When you throw in that this series could be a bowling shootout across only 2 tests, I'd back our boys to nick a test.

Time for Amir, Hasan to really step up and hopefully this is the coming of age for the likes of Babar and Haris in tests. As frustrating as Sami's timid batting was against SL I think he's the best option to start considering his experience in ENG.

I know it's never going to happen but I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Fakhar at 6. Good player of spin, experience against new ball and we are desperately lacking someone that provides impetus lower down the order.

Out of the most likely options my starting XI :

Azhar
Sami
Haris
Fawad
Shafiq
Babar
Sarfraz
Hasan
Amir
Abbas
Rahat/Shadab
 
England is a strong side in English conditions, they have recently defeated south Africa in england
 
It all depends on how Pakistan batting holds up against the English bowling. Looking at how the batting did against SL at home, I would be very worried. Amir did not do anything special in 2016 against England and Hasan Ali is inexperienced. Yasir was the difference between the two sides in the two wins Pakistan had in 2016.
 
Amir is obviously demotivated in tests as he wants to shorten the amount he plays. Hopefully he goes in with positive intent and doesn't think at all about cutting on tests but trying his best. That is what I'm most afraid of, if he isn't motivated enough because he's already set tests aside.
 
Like many of the posters have already said, I also am of the opinion that this series will be decided by how our batsmen perform in early english conditions! If we can get decent runs, I expect our bowlers to take the wickets . . If we can't get the runs, then well . . it is fait accompli really!

I already said in one of previous posts that Pakistan needs to have a batting all-rounder batting at number 7 with the WK moving to number 6! and that all-rounder needs to be the best batting all rounder in the country! If that's Hussain Talat, then he needs to debut. Or Faheem or Aamer Yamin, etc.

With Yasir out, I would straight give that role to Shadab and have another all rounder and play Shadab as a 5th bowler.

My team would become:

Shan/Sami
Azhar
Babar
Harris
Asad Shafiq
Sarfaraz
Hussain Talat/Aamer Yamin/Faheem
Shadab
Hasan Ali
Amir
Abbas
 
A whitewash is on the cards I'm afraid. We got away with it in summer of 2016 because we got flat, grassless wickets. It allowed our batsmen to put in some respectable scores, and brought Yasir into the game.

In hindsight, although Pakistan were playing with 10 men for the first three Tests thanks to Younis, it was a series that we should have won.

It was a golden opportunity missed - England had a messed up top-order, Anderson was below his best because of his shoulder injury and Stokes only played 1 Test. In addition, as I stated earlier, the conditions were friendly as well.

This time, since we are touring in early summer, the conditions are not going to favorable at all. They will be similar to the ones we faced in New Zealand in 2016, where we got blanked in both Tests and Younis Khan averaged 4.

It will take a miracle for Pakistan to even draw a Test, let alone win. The only glimmer of hope that I see is Amir running through England once. He is a rubbish Test bowler, but he can be lethal on green pitches.
 
It all comes down to how our opening batsman handle Anderson and Broad. It's probably going to be Anderson's swansong summer. And if they prepare grassy wickets, we need the likes of Azhar and Sami to bat out of their skins. In terms of our bowling Amir is absolutely key, much more so than Hasan. I'd expect to have Bhuvneshwar-levels on impact if the wickets have some swing in them. Should be a cracking series, and easily our best option to get a result there despite not having Yasir. (who is a big loss however I don't think he's going to be the deciding factor even if he was fit)
 
No quite... Australia in the last 3 series:

5-0 in 13/14
2-3 in 15
4-0 in 17/18

for a combined score of 11-3, a slightly better W/L ratio than 7-2.

Actually England won 3-0 in 5 match 2013 home series vs Australia. So, 11-6.
 
Since Yasir Shah's test debut, 3.5 years ago, Pakistan haven't won a single test in which Yasir hasn't contributed heavily / bowled well.

Our pacers are often unable to make the most of friendly conditions and clearly don't have the fitness required to be a top test team.
 
Yes but it's unlikely as our Test team is our worst since 2010.

Fakhar must play as Sami and Imam are sitting ducks. Will play at best 60 balls for 10 runs.
 
If we catch better than 2016, that will help a lot - especially as batting on paper, is weaker. Azhar could score big in 1 innings, someone else is going to have to step up - Shafiq tends to in tandem with another scorer.

Bowling could be fun though - Amir's best since his comeback may well have been the England tour, certainly in tests. He got through the tail quickly at Lords for instance. Hasan and Abbas, no reason why they can't come to the party too.

Also, spin wise, while he could get walloped about - Shadab does have this aggression/desire that is much needed, and he has the variation over Shah.

See how we go, hope we fight hard and keep hold of a few...England tends to give visitors more of a sniff than Oz/SA/India.

It is early Summer in England - something that both sets of batsman will be concious of.
 
A whitewash is on the cards I'm afraid. We got away with it in summer of 2016 because we got flat, grassless wickets. It allowed our batsmen to put in some respectable scores, and brought Yasir into the game.

In hindsight, although Pakistan were playing with 10 men for the first three Tests thanks to Younis, it was a series that we should have won.

It was a golden opportunity missed - England had a messed up top-order, Anderson was below his best because of his shoulder injury and Stokes only played 1 Test. In addition, as I stated earlier, the conditions were friendly as well.

This time, since we are touring in early summer, the conditions are not going to favorable at all. They will be similar to the ones we faced in New Zealand in 2016, where we got blanked in both Tests and Younis Khan averaged 4.

It will take a miracle for Pakistan to even draw a Test, let alone win. The only glimmer of hope that I see is Amir running through England once. He is a rubbish Test bowler, but he can be lethal on green pitches.

why not Hasan?
 
Yes, if only we go with Hasan, Amir (provided he shuns his defensive length), Abbas, Shadab, as our bowling attack, along with Fahim as a batting all rounder at 6, and play Fawad, Fakhar, Haris and Salahuddin in the batting line up.
 
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I would make Fakhar work extremely hard on his bowling from now till the tour and play him as a batting all rounder at 6.

Azhar
Sami
Haris
Babar
Shafiq
Fakhar
Sarfraz
Faheem
Amir
Hasan
Abbas

With Fakhar and Faheem we have the firepower down the order. Faheem would also be a handful for the English as he gets good seam movement.
 
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I think there is no need for a third specialist pacer, I would pick Fahim over Amir, as he can be a reliable batsman, but as they haven't selected a reliable batting all rounder, picking Fahim as a batting all rounder is must, in order to share the overs burden.

My playing XI:

Azhar
Fakhar
Haris
Fawad
Salahuddin
Fahim
Sarfraz + *
Shadab
Amir
Hasan
Abbas
 
I hope they do. Hopefully the fast bowlers are fast and fierce. And when you get some swing, any batting line-up can have that one low score. So there is always a chance.
 
Early year UK conditions means our bowlers should do well, but with a poor test batting line up even against an average england side we will lose 2-0.
 
Not Yasir, but Haris Sohail's performance will decide whether Pakistan win or draw/lose the series. Best player of pace, swing and seam along with Kane and Shai Hope!
 
Key players to watch out for which might turn the tide in Favour of Pak

Fakhar Zaman (If he plays, yes the ball will be swinging but the guy knows his game so he will have an impact)
Haris Sohail (Technically looks equipped however is yet to play in overseas tests)
Azhar Ali (Has history)
Hussain Talat (If he plays, I want him to play as all rounder and acting 5th bowler)
Abbas (He can destroy the English batting on green tracks single handedly)
Hassan (He is gonna surpass everybodys expectations in Eng tests)
Amir (If he is in rhythm and balls from closer to the wicket with correct seam position its gonna be a sight to watch)
 
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why not Hasan?

Hasan is a superior bowler overall, but Amir is better on green-tops in my view. He can swing the ball both ways conventionally at good pace. He reverses the ball into the right-handers, but I haven't seen him bowl conventional in-swingers. Like Steyn, he appears to be an out-swing bowler with the new ball.
 
No quite... Australia in the last 3 series:

5-0 in 13/14
2-3 in 15
4-0 in 17/18

for a combined score of 11-3, a slightly better W/L ratio than 7-2.

You're excluding 2010/11, which would be part of this decade.
 
To answer the question, it has become exponentially more difficult to beat England but it's not impossible. The English batting line up is unsteady, Root is short of confidence, Cook is short of everything, and if Jimmy and Broad can be inhibited in some way, the back up bowlers just aren't that good. Yes Ali had a sparkling summer but Pak should be able to handle him, although England may try Leach who Pak should eat up. Stokes is a restrictive bowler and not much of a wicket threat and whoever remains, Wood or someone else, isn't good enough.

Basically it is Pakistan's batting against Jimmy and Broad.
 
Eyes. Haris is untroubled by pace, seam, swing, bounce. You name it, he can play it.


Hasn't played a test match innings in those conditions. He's good but can't say he's one of the best till he actually performs.
 
Hasn't played a test match innings in those conditions. He's good but can't say he's one of the best till he actually performs.

[MENTION=143023]SarfiBabarHaris[/MENTION] bhai has the best eye for talent.
 
[MENTION=143023]SarfiBabarHaris[/MENTION] bhai has the best eye for talent.

You are not understanding my point.

How can someone who has never played a test match in seam bowling friendly conditions be one of the best batsmen in the world in such skill? That's my question

Harris has the potential to perform but until he has performed you can't say he is one of the best.
 
You are not understanding my point.

How can someone who has never played a test match in seam bowling friendly conditions be one of the best batsmen in the world in such skill? That's my question

Harris has the potential to perform but until he has performed you can't say he is one of the best.

He has played in Pakistan domestics which are basically the same conditions.

But anyway, all shall be revealed in May/June :)
 
He has played in Pakistan domestics which are basically the same conditions.

But anyway, all shall be revealed in May/June :)


Playing Broad and Anderson is a different test all together.

Expecting Harris to get at least 1 big score. Just worried about his fitness..
 
Playing Broad and Anderson is a different test all together.

Expecting Harris to get at least 1 big score. Just worried about his fitness..

The only problem with Haris. If he could have stayed fit over the years he would have been a top test batsman already.
 
Sure anything is possible I guess but Pakistan got beat by Sri Lanka at home... so I mean, it's not really likely and losing your best bowler doesn't help your chances.
 
Don't have much hope in Tests from this current bunch. Would be pleasantly surprised if we don't lose too badly and would be over the moon if we draw.
 
It's only a 2 test series so gonna be harder than last time even if England seem down on their strength in tests. We're going to miss Misbah and YK too this time.

Our test team is unsettled in pretty much every regard, openers, middle order, fast bowlers. I'm also kind of worried the players that are more settled in the team apart from Sarfraz (though he himself hasn't been great in tests of late), are test specialists. And test specialists for us hardly play much international cricket, and it's only a 2 test series.

I hope we win, I wasn't too happy with the drawn series in England, it was ripe for the taking and overall we were the better side IMO. Was a stupid collapse founded on a lot of careless shots and recklessness which cost us the series.
 
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