Can Pakistan evolve their ODI mindset?

[WhenSultansBowled]

Season 2020-21 will be the key year for the Pakistani ODI set up, looking forward to WC2023.

In past few years we have been the punching bag for all good ODI teams (CT excluding).

In the ODI series before the world cup, against the mighty England, we went toe to toe and scored ~300 consistently. So, the capability is there.

We have good openers, a world class #3, an injury prone Haris, and good hitters in Immad/Shadab (spin ARs; the next world cup is in India!).

PCB should drop the dead weight for good. Bring in fresh blood (especially the middle order) and try to play aggressive cricket.
We should play like England. As a fan I won't be annoyed even if we keep on losing JAMODI series regularly.

It's the only way I see Pakistan lifting the next world cup.

 

[Red Devil]

We came a long way under Mickey. Went from a side that simply wasn't capable of scoring more than 260 at max to a side that has been consistently scoring 300+ now.

 

[Mueez]

You got to give credit to Mickey Arthur for changing the batting mindset.

Now it is upto PCB to retain or sack him.

My only wish is if Mickey has to go I would like to see someone who knows about the modern-game.

 

[topspin]

Season 2020-21 will be the key year for the Pakistani ODI set up, looking forward to WC2023.

In past few years we have been the punching bag for all good ODI teams (CT excluding).

In the ODI series before the world cup, against the mighty England, we went toe to toe and scored ~300 consistently. So, the capability is there.

We have good openers, a world class #3, an injury prone Haris, and good hitters in Immad/Shadab (spin ARs; the next world cup is in India!).

PCB should drop the dead weight for good. Bring in fresh blood (especially the middle order) and try to play aggressive cricket.
We should play like England. As a fan I won't be annoyed even if we keep on losing JAMODI series regularly.

It's the only way I see Pakistan lifting the next world cup.

Shadab is a good hitter?

 

[re82h]

Imad and Shadab are not good hitters.
Imad generally looks ugly when he tries to hit hard. He plays better playing proper shots.
Shadab has a lot to prove. Again he is not a hitter.

We need to give opportunity to some new blood in the middle order. Find the TYPE of players we need instead of accommodating similar run a ball (at best) batsmen. 4 years should be used to wisely to give opportunity to younger players not TTFs.

Many TTFs are lining up to come back into the national side judging by all the gym videos they are posting.

BEWARE of TTFs. Move on.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

I think it's not a question of "can" anymore. Now we have to and there's no other option. Bilateral cricket we don't play too much, and tournaments will favor the home sides which are loaded with gun players who we do not rival at all and in favorable conditions they will have a higher probability to win.

The world cup evened out for us as the pitches went from 330 par to 240 max and that got our batting in play. I don't know about the next tournament or the future, but we need to add a lot of firepower in our batting.

Asif does not cut it. Add to that his liability of a fielding and even if he scores a 30 ball 50, odds are, he'd have cost his side about thirty runs in the field. Faheem regressed like some posters here, boom to star, flat lined, then total bust. Shadab barely looks like someone who can clear the circle. And Imad who may even become our captain, does not cut it as a power hitter with the likes of Stokes, Butler, etc.

Time to invest in a newer crop, get people who can hit and hit big and work on their flaws. Khushdil Shah needs to be worked on for three months in NCA and see how that goes. Other players too, even those who are good at improvising need to be tried for example Hasan Mohsin. I really like what I saw of Nasir Nawaz but he just vanished into thin air. His bat swing was one of the cleanest that there was in Pak cricket. Hasan Ali needs to do some work too. He can be a good lower order batter, suitable for quick fire 30's of 12 - ball kinda region. Wouldn't discard his bowling completely, think he has suffered a really big dip in confidence but he is hardworking so it's not beyond him to make a comeback.

I'm so torn on the idea of Sharjeel. Know that he's been out for too long, and probably given his fitness he'd never be able to make back but we need a player like him if not him. So maybe he can get an academy job and help create next gen players. The under 19 boys need to get that sorta training right now, Haider and Rohail come to the picture.

Saif Badar needs to be roped in too. His hitting ability if properly developed can become dangerous.

But the biggest change should be change in the mindset. We need to have a team that on their day can out-bat opposition by scoring 400 plus and accept the risk that sometimes in doing so they may fall flat on their face for a paltry 173.

That said, Babar needs to be the pivot of this team moving forward. InshAllah he has enough class to actually be one of our best batters.

 

[Ram Shekhar]

Pakistan played extraordinarily well in 2019 WC already. They have already showed that by beating the finalists England and New Zealand. They lost out only because of the stupid NRR rule!

 

[Thephenom]

I don’t think on the whole Pakistan’s batting has improved, especially when it comes to ODI’s, and it won’t while we have a 2nd rate batting coach in grant flower!

 

[Majid Khan]

Risk taking and playing with courage is what is missing, but risk taking in a smart and calculated way is what’s needed.

Be attacking as a batsman but that means developing your game to adapt to good bowling and improvising to play your shots depending on the line and length of bowling - it does not mean playing pre-meditated slogs where you’ve decided that you will swing your bat wildly before the ball has been delivered, that’s been the traditional Pakistani way of attacking when batting and worked in previous eras, but bowlers in limited overs are becoming smarter now.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Shadab is a good hitter?

Unfortunately, we don't have Yuvrajs, Afridis or Stokes waiting

Got to try the resources we currently possess.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I think it's not a question of "can" anymore. Now we have to and there's no other option. Bilateral cricket we don't play too much, and tournaments will favor the home sides which are loaded with gun players who we do not rival at all and in favorable conditions they will have a higher probability to win.

The world cup evened out for us as the pitches went from 330 par to 240 max and that got our batting in play. I don't know about the next tournament or the future, but we need to add a lot of firepower in our batting.

Asif does not cut it. Add to that his liability of a fielding and even if he scores a 30 ball 50, odds are, he'd have cost his side about thirty runs in the field. Faheem regressed like some posters here, boom to star, flat lined, then total bust. Shadab barely looks like someone who can clear the circle. And Imad who may even become our captain, does not cut it as a power hitter with the likes of Stokes, Butler, etc.

Time to invest in a newer crop, get people who can hit and hit big and work on their flaws. Khushdil Shah needs to be worked on for three months in NCA and see how that goes. Other players too, even those who are good at improvising need to be tried for example Hasan Mohsin. I really like what I saw of Nasir Nawaz but he just vanished into thin air. His bat swing was one of the cleanest that there was in Pak cricket. Hasan Ali needs to do some work too. He can be a good lower order batter, suitable for quick fire 30's of 12 - ball kinda region. Wouldn't discard his bowling completely, think he has suffered a really big dip in confidence but he is hardworking so it's not beyond him to make a comeback.

I'm so torn on the idea of Sharjeel. Know that he's been out for too long, and probably given his fitness he'd never be able to make back but we need a player like him if not him. So maybe he can get an academy job and help create next gen players. The under 19 boys need to get that sorta training right now, Haider and Rohail come to the picture.

Saif Badar needs to be roped in too. His hitting ability if properly developed can become dangerous.

But the biggest change should be change in the mindset. We need to have a team that on their day can out-bat opposition by scoring 400 plus and accept the risk that sometimes in doing so they may fall flat on their face for a paltry 173.

That said, Babar needs to be the pivot of this team moving forward. InshAllah he has enough class to actually be one of our best batters.

Well said bro.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Pakistan played extraordinarily well in 2019 WC already. They have already showed that by beating the finalists England and New Zealand. They lost out only because of the stupid NRR rule!

Only the second part. We started like a minnow I mean losing to WI in such pathetic manner

Rules were same for every team. IMO New Zealand deserved the SF spot more than Pakistan

 

[Shafi]

May be 2027 onward!!! Malik cost us 2019 World Cup. Hafeez/Wahab/Sarfraz/Imad/Fakhar will cost us 2023 and retire. Something may happen after that or may be not.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not even England batted like England lol They beat the bowlers around on flat pitches. On challenging pitches they came apart just like any other team. Didn't Pakistan outbat England in England when it mattered. Honestly i don't subscribe to that. They got away in this world cup twice with that approach. If Pakistan needs to win a world cup they have to go back to their original old strength. A strong bowling unit where relentless pressure is applied. That is their strength.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Well said OP. It is all about mindset.

You can keep bringing in player after player, but if you play to not lose, as opposed to play to win, even Bradman/Sobers combo will struggle to influence the outcome.

 

[AdamM97]

We need a coach and a captain that can change the mindset of the team. The current lot of Pakistani players play with fear, they need to be more positive and brave.

 

[Bilal7]

Wrong. Pakistan should play like Pakistan and play well. Trying to copy another team's style will only lead in defeat because we don't have their resources and they do not have ours.

1) Imam
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Haris
5) Rizwan (wk)
6) ?
7) ?
8) Shadab
9) Amir
10) Shaheen
11) Hasnain

12) Imad
13) Hasan
14) ?
15) ?

It looks like we have a solid top four/five that can ensure us a score of at least 270 in each game and a strong bowling attack that can defend any score of 300+. We should fit in a hard-hitting lower-order finisher as well as an all-rounder at 6 and 7, respectively, as well as find another spinner to partner Shadab and we should be all set for the next World Cup.

 

[big_gamer007]

Pakistan has good core if they build the team around the core players they will do well. Possibly be one of favourites to win world cup if not the absolute favourite since WC is in India.

Upto PCB to develop the talent they have now.

 

[HGhazanfar]

Shadab needs to improve batting significantly and come in to the middle order, also needs to be able to bowl a consistent length in his bowling. Shaheen also needs to improve but as of now only prospect amongst the current lot to start in the 11. Babar is our best bat and rightly so deserves to be the captain. M Rizwan can come in place of Sarfraz - played 20% of the innings Sarfraz has and has 2 ODI centuries already, much fitter and better wicketkeeper.

Ahmed Shehzad
Sharjeel Khan
Babar Azam C
M Rizwan WK
Shadab Khan VC
Kamran Ghulam (Really fit lad and has improved his game significantly especially in batting)
Khusdil Shah (Finisher we need but needs to improve his offside game)
Zafar Gohar
Shaheen Afridi
Haris Rauf (Can swing the ball upfront and can be a good death overs bowler)
Naseem Shah (Hopefully is fast tracked, deadly pace with a scary bouncer and yorker, also one of the only pacers in the country that can swing the ball in)

Bench
M Hasnain
Usman Shinwari
M Musa
Haider Ali (Under 19) backup opener
Saud Shakeel
Ammad Butt (Pace allrounder depending on pitch)



Naseem Shah and Shaheen Afridi can be dangerous new bowl bowlers
Haris Rauf can come on first change

Zafar Gohar and Shadab can control the middle overs.

Khusdil Shah and Kamran Ghulam can also provide 5-6 overs each on any given day.

Sharjeel can be the power hitter upfront, with Shehzad as the anchor more technical partner

Middle order has accumulators to ensure a collapse does not take place (Babar Azam and M Rizwan, Shadab if batting improves)

Power Hitters lower order - Kamran Ghulam, Khusdil Shah

Fielding would be one of the greatest in history as well, Shadab, Ahmed Shehzad, Babar Azam, Kamran Ghulam, Zafar Gohar, Khusdil Shah, Naseem Shah

Shaheen Afridi and Haris Rauf would need to improve, and Sharjeel can be the slip fielder.

 

[szundercover]

Wrong. Pakistan should play like Pakistan and play well. Trying to copy another team's style will only lead in defeat because we don't have their resources and they do not have ours.

1) Imam
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Haris
5) Rizwan (wk)
6) ?
7) ?
8) Shadab
9) Amir
10) Shaheen
11) Hasnain

12) Imad
13) Hasan
14) ?
15) ?

It looks like we have a solid top four/five that can ensure us a score of at least 270 in each game and a strong bowling attack that can defend any score of 300+. We should fit in a hard-hitting lower-order finisher as well as an all-rounder at 6 and 7, respectively, as well as find another spinner to partner Shadab and we should be all set for the next World Cup.

That is a very good core of the team and I am hopefull that the missing links will be filled very soon.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Wrong. Pakistan should play like Pakistan and play well. Trying to copy another team's style will only lead in defeat because we don't have their resources and they do not have ours.

1) Imam
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Haris
5) Rizwan (wk)
6) ?
7) ?
8) Shadab
9) Amir
10) Shaheen
11) Hasnain

12) Imad
13) Hasan
14) ?
15) ?

It looks like we have a solid top four/five that can ensure us a score of at least 270 in each game and a strong bowling attack that can defend any score of 300+. We should fit in a hard-hitting lower-order finisher as well as an all-rounder at 6 and 7, respectively, as well as find another spinner to partner Shadab and we should be all set for the next World Cup.

Imad at no. 6 and Zafar Gohar, Amir Yamin, Rohail Nazir, Haris Rauf and a few others as well.

 

[szundercover]

Shadab needs to improve batting significantly and come in to the middle order, also needs to be able to bowl a consistent length in his bowling. Shaheen also needs to improve but as of now only prospect amongst the current lot to start in the 11. Babar is our best bat and rightly so deserves to be the captain. M Rizwan can come in place of Sarfraz - played 20% of the innings Sarfraz has and has 2 ODI centuries already, much fitter and better wicketkeeper.

Ahmed Shehzad
Sharjeel Khan
Babar Azam C
M Rizwan WK
Shadab Khan VC
Kamran Ghulam (Really fit lad and has improved his game significantly especially in batting)
Khusdil Shah (Finisher we need but needs to improve his offside game)
Zafar Gohar
Shaheen Afridi
Haris Rauf (Can swing the ball upfront and can be a good death overs bowler)
Naseem Shah (Hopefully is fast tracked, deadly pace with a scary bouncer and yorker, also one of the only pacers in the country that can swing the ball in)

Bench
M Hasnain
Usman Shinwari
M Musa
Haider Ali (Under 19) backup opener
Saud Shakeel
Ammad Butt (Pace allrounder depending on pitch)



Naseem Shah and Shaheen Afridi can be dangerous new bowl bowlers
Haris Rauf can come on first change

Zafar Gohar and Shadab can control the middle overs.

Khusdil Shah and Kamran Ghulam can also provide 5-6 overs each on any given day.

Sharjeel can be the power hitter upfront, with Shehzad as the anchor more technical partner

Middle order has accumulators to ensure a collapse does not take place (Babar Azam and M Rizwan, Shadab if batting improves)

Power Hitters lower order - Kamran Ghulam, Khusdil Shah

Fielding would be one of the greatest in history as well, Shadab, Ahmed Shehzad, Babar Azam, Kamran Ghulam, Zafar Gohar, Khusdil Shah, Naseem Shah

Shaheen Afridi and Haris Rauf would need to improve, and Sharjeel can be the slip fielder.

Excellent analysis but sorry to burst your bubble we dont need ahmed shehzad he is an tested failure and we cant discard imam ul haq he is a must in this team and makes the team on merit.

 

[Shafi]

@ HGhazanfar,
Shehzad is even worse than Imam, Sharjeel is finished as well.
Rest is ok

 

[HGhazanfar]

Unfortunately, we don't have Yuvrajs, Afridis or Stokes waiting

Got to try the resources we currently possess.

We do they've just never gotten a chance, Khusdil Shah, Saif Badar, Kamran Ghulam are good young prospects.

 

[Obaidd]

Season 2020-21 will be the key year for the Pakistani ODI set up, looking forward to WC2023.

In past few years we have been the punching bag for all good ODI teams (CT excluding).

In the ODI series before the world cup, against the mighty England, we went toe to toe and scored ~300 consistently. So, the capability is there.

We have good openers, a world class #3, an injury prone Haris, and good hitters in Immad/Shadab (spin ARs; the next world cup is in India!).

PCB should drop the dead weight for good. Bring in fresh blood (especially the middle order) and try to play aggressive cricket.
We should play like England. As a fan I won't be annoyed even if we keep on losing JAMODI series regularly.

It's the only way I see Pakistan lifting the next world cup.

Shadab is not exactly a good hitter, even by PSL standards.

One opener, Fakhar, is not that good. I say this because he’s not consistent and clicks far less frequently than a good opener should.

Babar and Haris are top tier.

I think we need a good attacking keeper batsman and a specialist spinner who can perform in all conditions. You are right about the evolution evident in Eng series and it’s a welcome change.

The bilateral ODIs that you say are not too important are actually what make a team what it is. Examples are India and England. They win most of their bilateral series and consequently performed well at the big stage.

 

[barah_admi]

The batting has been exceptional and with shaheen and amir in form, with hasan hopefully gaining form, with another 1 or 2 pace bowlers around and shadab getting better, its a very good all round side. They just need consistency and the right collection of players, and as you say, malik and hafeez must likely go.

 

[Faizi Zeta]

For ODI

1) Imam (Must Improve strike rate)
2) Abid Ali (Give him proper chance)
3) Babar (Must know how to finish inning)
4) Haris (Avoid injury )
5) Rizwan (wk)
6) Sarfraz (C) (Let Rizwan keep the behind focus on batting & Captaincy)
7) Asif (Don't try to be Afridi try to follow Maxwell role)
8) Shadab (you can improve your batting)
9) Amir (Same like Shadab)
10) Shaheen (you can increase your speed)
11) Hasnain (Give him proper chance)
12) Imad (little improvement on both dep)
13) Usman (calm your nerves after boundary)
14) Fakhar (Work on your batting)
15) Usama Mir (try one more spinner)

Work in NCA
16) Faheem (Work in both Dep)
17) Hussain Talat (Work in both Dep)
18) Hasan (find yourself)
19) Saad Nasim (Wait for turn)
20) Sharjeel Khan (we need you so work on your basics and come back)

We need change in fielding coach
Try local: Why not Younis Khan??? (Mentor as well) By one get one free

 

[naseem]

No...

Diff coaches 4 diff format will not help

Keeping Sharjeel away 4rm cricket won't help

Playing just 3 ODIS in a year will not help

Teams keep on the momentum by playing cricket.... A gap of 4 months will not help...

Now Zim is banned so pak will play even less cricket.....playing cricket with Ban Afg even Ire is better than with Zim...

Constant A tours to England and Australia are must.....but Pak don't do it..


So. A big NO

 

[cricketerB94]

I want to see the following 11 in the upcoming ODIs:

Imam
Rizwan (He is good against pacers and not so good against spinners. So he should be utilized at the top of the order and he can give quick starts.)
Babar
Haris
Fakhar (He needs to calm down. He is good against spinners and can play long innings. So he should be utilized in the middle overs)
Umar Akmal (Unfortunately, he is still the best striker in Pakistan and can be useful in the lower order. Asif cannot play in India in the next WC.)
Imad
Shadab
Faheem/A specialist spinner in Asia
Amir
Shaheen

This line up has fire power and quality.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Babar is an opener by design , pakistan can easily form a good opening combination by playing babar and imam as openers.

Haris sohail is good against swing and can play at one down position easily.
Muhammad Rizwan
Khushdil shah at number 5 , a very good hitter as well.
saud shakil.
imad wasim
Fast bowling all rounder
Amir
zafar gohar
Shaheen