Can Pakistan really play England style of (white-ball) cricket and be successful?

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Anyone who heard Ramiz yesterday knows what I am talking about. He clearly wants them to play high risk game

He even said he doesn’t care if team fails but he really wants them to play aggressive.

Also he said he even made it clear to the players

Another thing he pointed out yesterday is about the accumulators. He thinks Pak has one aggressive player then one accumulator then one aggressive player then an accumulator in playing 11. He wants them to keep attacking throughout the match (English style of play). He sounded like he won’t take accumulators in his team, which shows him adding (useless) hitters in Asif, Khushdil and Azam. Also hired Hayden

Can Pakistan really be successful by playing English type of cricket in LOIs!

 

[mastimasti]

No one but England can play ENglish style LO cricket. But it took years of prep to get to this stage. Skysports reported man, many years ago, I think maybe even pre-2015 with a young Stokes and a young Buttler, whose entire day of batting drills was having the machine shoot down yorkers and the aim was to hit every yorker for a boundary.

It wasn't until post-2015, not quite even 2017 (already a terrific ODI side by now) but really by 2018 when they became a mammoth batting unit. It also helped that they had the two best ODI wicket takes in Plunkett and Rashid through that period.

Pakistan can't just become an aggressive batting unit without a method, a method which takes years to deliver results.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Aggressive without being intelligent will only fetch them to 130-7 in 50 overs cricket.

or 240-8 in 35 overs if they mindlessly slog.

They should practice more on how to hit outta the park consistently with more timing and less slogging.

Finding gaps and rotating strike go a long way in limited overs cricket, which pakistan lack a lot which is a huge difference compared to the top teams.

In the bowling dept , they need to find two proper spinners , but instead they are still going with bits and pieces in Shadab, Imad and Nawaz.

The next 50 cwc is in India , they need batsman who can play spin very well and time their shots instead of ugly hoicks like Khusdil and asif ali,.. Before they even hit the ball we know where it is going to be get caught..

 

[Abdurmirr]

Considering the best power hitters within Pakistan are Asif Ali, Khushdhil Shah, Danish Aziz, Iftikhar Ahmed, Azam Khan and other TTF's who have failed consistently on the international stage where as England have guys like James Vince, Tom Banton, Ben Ducket, Sam Billings, Liam Livingstone etc sitting in reserves I think the answer is clear at the moment.

It's hard enough for teams like Australia, New Zealand or India to replicate the same aggressive style of cricket seen by England over the past 6 years, instead we have seen each of those teams play their own unique brand of cricket with different approaches towards aggression. Pakistan will also need to develop it's own form of aggressive cricket that looks to play aggressive cricket without sacrificing some of our better batsmen for mediocre domestic bullies who cannot produce any sort of performances in international cricket.

Areas where Pakistan could look to improve in terms of aggression with our current batting line up include: developing the art of taking quick singles, looking to innovate against spin, lowering dot ball percentages per innings between wickets and trying to find a batsmen who can consistently score quick runs in the death.

 

[Hasan123]

Look at Pakistan best team vs England’s best team and you will have your answer.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ramiz is out of his mind. He has been saying this for the last decade. It means nothing. You can't just spin a magic wand and expect teams to transform. How can Pakistan play like England when we barely have any players that possess the ability to play like that?

Comparing Asif Ali to Buttler or Khushdil to Morgan is like comparing a '64 Pontiac or a '67 Camaro to a broken down, run-down 1989 Corolla.

 

[Omer2002]

The physique of our players doesnt allow us to be that aggressive. we just have sloggers and playing more aggressive will be a disaster.

Only thing they should concentrate is the DOT balls that is criminal in white balls. Strike rotation is imperetive.

 

[mastimasti]

Some interesting stats to think about:

England are no longer the batting behemoths they were from end of WC 2015 to 2019. Currently ranked 3rd in terms of RPO (in matches where they scored 300+), and the only team in the top 5 with a batting average below 50, it seems the tactics are starting to wear off.

It must also be added 2 of the 5 matches where 300+ was scored, they did field a B team. Still no excuse with what India have accomplished or even Australia and South Africa.

 

[daytrader]

We have our own brand of cricket, why not cultivate that rather than follow another team's approach

 

[gazza619]

England bat all the way down to number 10. This allows their batsmen the freedom to be aggressive. Their players also have a much higher pedigree as well.

 

[gazza619]

We have our own brand of cricket, why not cultivate that rather than follow another team's approach

Yep, our brand is nicely presented by Ramiz Raja’s 150 ball 100 in the opening 1992 WC against the WI.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think it is unlikely that Pakistan can replicate England. Pakistan need to come up with their own formula.

They also need to improve bowling department as Pakistani bowling has declined.

 

[Zaz]

Its not gonna work Pakistan doesnt have the depth, player pool or the quality

Players are gonna fall flat in the face going gung ho from ball one

Itd been much more sensible if pakistan looked at making other changes such as improving shot selection and rotation rather than getting the sloggers now

 

[Amjid Javed]

Yep, our brand is nicely presented by Ramiz Raja’s 150 ball 100 in the opening 1992 WC against the WI.

Pakistan now has Imam now to play the role as pinch blocker at the top of the order.

 

[mon858]

For t20 yes it can potentially work even in short term as we have depth in batting and you only need to last 20 overs.
For odi. Yes but target has to be after 3 to 4 years. England used to bat with similar accumulation mindset for decades until 2010s. And they Transformed. Nothing magical. Set a vision. Hite professional coaches to tech the specific skills from national but more importantly down to domestic NHPC A team and under 19 level. And then players have to put in effort to practice the drills and execute on them in nets and domestics. Them you can hope to see results in 3+ years. People will need to be patient.

However, it is a conflicting vision because on one hand he wants us to retuen to "our way" of playing which was always accumulate and go full Blast in last 10 overs (same formula if you 92 wc, 99 wc, and even as recent as 2019 eng series or wc or uae series pak vs aus). We did post several 320+ scores with that formula in 2019. On other hand he wants to go aggressive throughout and pairing of aggressive partners which has frankly not been the pakistan way of playing and more England modern way.

 

[Saj]

That word aggressive again.

It's taken over the word talent, as the most over-used word in Pakistan cricket.

Play aggressive and it's almost like it's an excuse to lose.

 

[Buffet]

For that, Pakistan would need to have decent batting till the 10th wicket.

 

[Ab Fan]

How do they play that with Imam ul haq as opener?

 

[Titan24]

No team in the world can currently play the way Eng does in whiteball cricket. Eng has the highest average SR amongst its top 7 in the world.

One doesnt necessary need to look at Eng. The change which Bmac brought to NZ in last decade was also pretty impressive and he didnt have as much resources or players available as Eng. That revolutionized the game in NZ and the interest of fans in cricket as as high as it has ever been (NZ fans can confirm if its near to reality) due to the style of play they brought.

Thing which Pakistan can do and what the ex players and possibly Ramiz means is to have more intent and players to be bit more expressive on the field. Yes skills can be argued but other than 3-4 players rest of Pak players look to be insecure/in a shell and thus perform nowhere near their optimal level.

This approach will require optimal performance of the players who are capable enough to start with and obviously will also require to find the right set of players to further add fuel to this approach in the long run.

 

[Amjid Javed]

If you want to see where pakistan is lacking in white ball cricket rewatch the 3rd T20 vs England on last tpur. Its not all about smacking the ball out of the park. Our batsmen only seem to be able to play standard cricket shots or wild slogs. There is no game intelligence to create angles at the crease work, ball into gaps past fielders to the boundary. Prime example being not a single reverse sweep was played against england spinners in that in that game. When things like that happen it makes it easier for bowlers to keep runs down. Same goes when playing quicks etc.. how many of our batsmen play the scoop? ramp shot? or other angle worked strokes to again make it hard for bowlers. Yes it takes hours of practice to do this stuff but its plain to see players arent working on their games enough and also not been coached well enough to be "so called aggresive" . Add to that just like WI batsmen our players eat up to many Dot balls which has been a problem for last 20 years. Simple improvements in areas ive listed would gain pakistan an extra 50 or 60 runs per game. Its not all about aggresive, its about getting with times and needs of the game.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That word aggressive again.

It's taken over the word talent, as the most over-used word in Pakistan cricket.

Play aggressive and it's almost like it's an excuse to lose.

A buzzword that means absolutely nothing in the context that its used

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think Hafeez said it best when he said that his 12 year old son has better game awareness and cricketing sense than Ramiz.

Don't know his son but I don't doubt this claim.

 

[Titan24]

If you want to see where pakistan is lacking in white ball cricket rewatch the 3rd T20 vs England on last tpur. Its not all about smacking the ball out of the park. Our batsmen only seem to be able to play standard cricket shots or wild slogs. There is no game intelligence to create angles at the crease work, ball into gaps past fielders to the boundary. Prime example being not a single reverse sweep was played against england spinners in that in that game. When things like that happen it makes it easier for bowlers to keep runs down. Same goes when playing quicks etc.. how many of our batsmen play the scoop? ramp shot? or other angle worked strokes to again make it hard for bowlers. Yes it takes hours of practice to do this stuff but its plain to see players arent working on their games enough and also not been coached well enough to be "so called aggresive" . Add to that just like WI batsmen our players eat up to many Dot balls which has been a problem for last 20 years. Simple improvements in areas ive listed would gain pakistan an extra 50 or 60 runs per game. Its not all about aggresive, its about getting with times and needs of the game.

Valid points.

Range and strokes need a lot of improvement and there is no shortcut to that rather than putting in the hard yards. First struggling to rotate and then relying on 2/3 release shots is not going to work in international cricket most often. Mohammad Rizwan is the only Pak player in recent times who has worked on his game, his range and different strokes to produce a substantial change in whiteball cricket. Other than that we have only seen natural evolution of Babar and somewhat range enhancement from Fakhar when he is trying to play properly.

Rest of the players whether new or experienced they are yet to show any the growth and development they need to succeed at international level so a lot of work has to be put in.

 

[Mp812]

Yep, our brand is nicely presented by Ramiz Raja’s 150 ball 100 in the opening 1992 WC against the WI.

Different. Era....different strategies...not fair to compare

 

[Saj]

A buzzword that means absolutely nothing in the context that its used

A lot of our boys think aggression is being pumped up ahead of the game or at the team huddle or shouting at a team-mate.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Different. Era....different strategies...not fair to compare

The strategies for most teams in 1992 was to get off to a flyer in 1st 15 overs as it was 1st world cup where fielding restrictions were brought in.

England opened with botham, NZ with greatbatch, WI with lara, india with Shastri so the aim was for quick runs.

Rameez batted selfishly most of time and like a snail. Im sure rameez will encourage players like imam to play like that also.

 

[TheSultan]

You have to have a strategy that works for you as a team and utilises the tools at your disposal.

The decade long Misbah led effect means we do not have the quality of power hitters that other teams do.

To counter this, Sarfraz and Arthur developed a strategy for the Pakistan team at the time for T20s. This involved the “big squeeze” in the middle of an innings. It worked, as Pakistan became a formidable T20 team for a couple of years.

Personally I didn’t like that strategy, I thought it was promoting mediocrity and gave rise to a lot of bits n pieces players rather than what I like to see as a purist - specialists.

However, in light of what’s come before and after I have to commend them because they at least developed a strategy and in hindsight, that was probably the best strategy at that time with the tools available to them. Personally I would have liked to see them utilise they fast bowling a bit better.

Yes I’m fully aware that it wasn’t 100% tested in real pressure situations and in a way we’ve been robbed of finding out because misbah came in, changed everything without any alternative planning or strategy.

It will be interesting to see what the strategy is moving forward.

 

[Nasty Naz]

You need talent to pull off what England has been able to. It's not simply "be more aggressive" and it automatically happens. A better domestic system and instilling a higher SR approach will take years before it bears fruit. People expecting some sort of overnight progress like that won't happen but rather at least a decade to implement.

PCB have no long-term vision and everybody gets cycled through every few years with people who have their own image & vision. Meaning, nothing will ever stick long enough to be implemented and follow through on.

 

[unemployedgm]

A few more words,

Talent Evaluation
Roster Construction
Lineup Construction

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Anything is possible, have subr something which fans don’t have

 

[Snowflake]

We have our own brand of cricket, why not cultivate that rather than follow another team's approach

Because the other team's method has won them the WC?

 

[pratiktc]

England selectors at any point of time can pick a top 6 in ODI XI all capable of averaging min 35+ at SR of min 95+.
They now have a pool of atleast 12 such batters excluding their self imposed ban on Hales
(Roy, Bairstow, Root, Malan, Vince, Livingstone, Buttler, Stokes, Morgan, Billings, Crawley, Salt, Pope)

They can supplement this top 6 with 2 faux all-rounders who can average 25+ at 95+ SR from a pool of 4 solid contenders
(Moeen, Sam Curran, David Willey, Chris Woakes)

Pakistan or any other teams selectors can only dream about such depth. So can forget about copying Eng template. Have to find their own way to play and compete.

 

[IndianMafia]

England style of play is little overrated. India just defeated them on flattest tracks recently , that too with shardul and prasidh krishna as fast bowlers.

 

[shamaan]

Pakistan should play attacking cricket but that doesn't mean you be reckles.they also need a long batting line up in which wasim should bat at 10.

 

[sharmaji]

Pakistan was famous for playing aggressive cricket before England made it popular. The likes of Saeed Anwar, Amir Sohail, Ijaz Ahmed, Imran Nazir, Abdul Razzak, and the baap of all: Shahid Afridi. Phew! Pakistan only has to look into its own history to find inspiration for aggressive batting. No need to copy England.

 

[ufcfan]

England has a pretty good attack in limited overs cricket, Pakistan on the other hand struggling with it
Shaheen is good ,Hasan,Rauff all are inconsistent
England will not be able to produce batsmen of this calibre in short formats in future like they are now, saturation does come at a point,they will change their approach with whatever resources they will have then
India with Sehwag,Yuvi,Dhoni,Sachin,Raina too had a tremendous depth once,they too launched at opponents on flat decks but things changed when they all retired ,India had to adopt an approach which could work in most conditions/situations

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I think Hafeez said it best when he said that his 12 year old son has better game awareness and cricketing sense than Ramiz.

Don't know his son but I don't doubt this claim.

When did he say that and in what context?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

When did he say that and in what context?

Not sure. I saw a clip online. Either it was in a TV interview for some small channel, or in an interview for some YouTube channel.

The question was in the context of certain negative comments Ramiz has made in the past about Hafeez on his own YouTube channel. Hafeez essentially said that Ramiz makes such comments for 'masala' purposes and generating clicks. And then said the line I quoted.

 

[daytrader]

How can we play like England if we don't have a professional setup like the ECB? England didn't get to where they are overnight. We are hoping for the destination without taking the hard road. We need a period of stability and professionalism rather than making serial changes based on an individual's whim. ECB doesn't replace it's entire coaching staff just because they have a new chairman