Can the Pakistan bowling attack be better off without the hype of Mohammad Amir?

[Savak]

Amir to me in reality just gets too much hype without the output to really justify it. Because of him alone, the bowlers who served Pakistan Cricket, toiled on the wickets of UAE like Junaid Khan, Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Imran Khan Jr have completely been discarded.

With Amir's presecene in the team, everyone suspects that Pakistan's bowling is a strong bowling unit which is further from the truth. In reality Pak's bowling attack strongly depends on Yasir.

I believe the Pak pace attack without Amir will not get much hype and will not carry a lot of expectations and the likes of Abbas, Hasan Ali benefited tremendously from the lack of expectations.

It was just embarrassing to see Amir operate at 126-130 km/hr for 60% of the time on wickets meant for pacers, if you are not going to bend your back in South Africa, where will you exactly? To me, he has zero commitment to Pakistan Cricket and is actually a much cunning operator who knew exactly what he was doing in the 2010 England Tour even at the age of 18.

He needs to be treated exactly like the others

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Amir has been very good in last year or so, it's not his problem that that people have unrealistic expectations from him to win a match alone with others not performing because Amir is present.

Yasir has been useless overseas except for West Indies where every bowler was brilliant.

Amir is the highest wicket taker across England and SA series up till now with the best stats. He was crucial for us leveling with England 1--1 this year bowling mostly at 140 Kph.

 

[The Viper]

Tbf he has done decently in tests recently. Needs to step up in ODIs though.

 

[Savak]

Amir has been very good in last year or so, it's not his problem that that people have unrealistic expectations from him to win a match alone with others not performing because Amir is present.

Yasir has been useless overseas except for West Indies where every bowler was brilliant.

Amir is the highest wicket taker across England and SA series up till now with the best stats. He was crucial for us leveling with England 1--1 this year bowling mostly at 140 Kph.

To be honest, his stats are no different from the stats Junaid Khan had spearheading the Pak bowling attack from 2012 to 2014. Junaid also was far better in the UAE and Sub continent in general in comparison to Amir. Just imagine what his career would look like if he got the same amount of backing as Amir did in the last 3 years. Junaid played a vital role in our 2017 CT triumph and now again he is sitting on the bench and not even being consistently considered for selection.

 

[786warrior]

I will always rate Amir! Even if he was deemed unable to spearhead the attach I would have him as first change. I also believe he could become a decent hand with the bat!

 

[Hawkeye]

WTH?

This blind hatred for the best bowler we have is appalling. No matter how bad you think he is, he's still the best performing bowler from PAK right now.

Not Abbas, Talha, CHeema, or the other of your favorites.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Honestly, we don't need Amir. As you mentioned, it was pathetic seeing Amir operating between 126-130kph, with the effort bowl being 135+.

For those of you that will say "oh look at Abbas.." yes, but he has a different role in the team. Amir, on the other hand, has a different role, and it's to bowl with pace and swing the ball.

TBH, it feels like Pakistan and India have swapped pace roles in the past year or so. Pathetic! Hope the new administration brings this new change we keep talking/hearing about.

How can bowlers build stamina on those pathetic domestic pitches, how can batsmen learn to play long innings? Pakistan cricket is well and truly on a downwards spiral (has been for a while). We as fans, had our pace battery to brag about, seems like that is also being taken away from us :/

 

[Buffet]

Why will you drop some one based on hype being a factor?

You should only look at performance and drop if replacements are better.

 

[babajee]

Amir has been decent in tests over the last year and the best in the world in T20s. It's just been ODIs since the CT where he has been terrible and needs to step up.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

To be honest, his stats are no different from the stats Junaid Khan had spearheading the Pak bowling attack from 2012 to 2014. Junaid also was far better in the UAE and Sub continent in general in comparison to Amir. Just imagine what his career would look like if he got the same amount of backing as Amir did in the last 3 years. Junaid played a vital role in our 2017 CT triumph and now again he is sitting on the bench and not even being consistently considered for selection.

Junaid was still averaging 28-29 during that period while Amir is 20-21. Junaid was good in UAE but he wasn't any good overseas, failing in South Africa Test series in 2013.

 

[Savak]

Junaid was still averaging 28-29 during that period while Amir is 20-21. Junaid was good in UAE but he wasn't any good overseas, failing in South Africa Test series in 2013.

That SA tour was his debut series. Junaid now is a seasoned and experienced bowler and does not carry the hype that Amir does.

 

[Fahdi]

No. A fully fit Amir still has a role to play in places like SENA even if it's not one of a strike bowler.

Amir may not be a strike bowler who can run through line ups but he is a very good support bowler.

His modus operandi is keep it tight around the fourth stump, dry up the runs and wait for something to happen. This is how Jimmy Anderson operated last time in the UAE. The problem occurs when you ask these guys to bowl without a strike bowler or a spear head. What happens is what you saw in the previous test match. He got 4 wickets for 88 but it took him 30 overs to do so, impact-less performance.

What Amir needs is a strike bowler who will actually make things happen instead of waiting for things to happen operating from the other end. Hassan is lacking in discipline and experience but he has shown to be someone to take the attack to the batsmen and actually make them feel the heat. He struck with the new ball both times and almost had South Africa 2 down for less than 20 to defend 149. Amir also performed better thanks to Hassan and Shaheen's presence who performed the role of strike bowlers.

Also in swinging conditions Amir is a much better bowler. There isn't a lot of swing here but rather movement off the pitch. With not a lot of movement in the air Amir bowled even more defensively.

The only reason to drop Amir is if one feels there too many support bowlers in the shape of Amir and Abbas. In which case it comes down to who do you value more of the two.

Regardless when it comes to SENA Amir cannot and should not be discarded. On slower pitches he is pretty much useless unless he starts to bowl with real pace once again and rediscovers that exaggerated swing.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

That SA tour was his debut series. Junaid now is a seasoned and experienced bowler and does not carry the hype that Amir does.

Still, I just checked and basically all his performancens are against Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in Tests and nothing much other than that. We don't how he would have performed against better teams but I don't think he would have performed that good because he didn't swing the ball at all and mainly relied on seaming of the track or reverse swing and bowled around 130 Kph.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Rahat Ali's whole career has been disappointing and finished when he was unable to take wickets against Ireland of all teams on a pitch favouring his type of bowling.

Wahab Riaz was also good only in UAE in some spells and to an extent Australia but nothing spectacular. He failed in all other countries, also the only thing he had was pace that he just lost as visible against Australia.

 

[hadi123]

Mohammad Amir's Tests stats in the last year or so have actually been amazing, which is surprising to many. In the England series he had a bowling average of 21.28, economy rate of 2.70 and SR of 47.2 which is fantastic.

In the current series, his average is 23.87, ER 2.72 and SR of 52.5. Most people consider a bowling average below 30 good, and his average has been WELL below 30, so he doesn't deserve the hate he is getting.

 

[Hawkeye]

Mohammad Amir's Tests stats in the last year or so have actually been amazing, which is surprising to many. In the England series he had a bowling average of 21.28, economy rate of 2.70 and SR of 47.2 which is fantastic.

In the current series, his average is 23.87, ER 2.72 and SR of 52.5. Most people consider a bowling average below 30 good, and his average has been WELL below 30, so he doesn't deserve the hate he is getting.

Of course this isn't good enough for [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=133920]Fahdi[/MENTION].

They want real strike bowlers, i.e. Rahat Ali, Cheema, Talha.. probably Junaid as well. Umar Gul, missing him much?

The hate is unbelievable for our best performer.

 

[gazza619]

I think Pakistan needs a proper fifth bowler. The batting doesnt score enough even with 6 batsmen so might as well fit it a 5 bowler/Al rounder. At least we can go all out when bowling.

 

[Khwaja78]

Amir plays or does'nt play, does'nt matter anymore. He is not quarter the bowler he is hyped to be. Bowling coach Azhar Mahmood was right about him. Offering A contract on the platter where the bloke bowl barely 128 km/hr where he can bowl 140s. This laadla treatment should end. What has the management done to Sohail Khan and Junaid? Even they can bowl with same speed with more dedication and threatening length . Mir Hamza would've been a handful on this pitch, Sarfraz has been a blot in this series overall but he was proven right by Amir himself that any swing bowler like hamza would've done well here.

 

[PakLFC]

If he is talking wickets then he should be in the team. There can be no special treatment for him either way. Can't keep him out the team for not taking enough wickets when others are equally guilty of the same.

 

[Hawkeye]

If he is talking wickets then he should be in the team. There can be no special treatment for him either way. Can't keep him out the team for not taking enough wickets when others are equally guilty of the same.

Thing is, he's the one actually taking wickets and performing.

Others aren't.

Except Shaheen.

 

[Fahdi]

Of course this isn't good enough for [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=133920]Fahdi[/MENTION].

They want real strike bowlers, i.e. Rahat Ali, Cheema, Talha.. probably Junaid as well. Umar Gul, missing him much?

The hate is unbelievable for our best performer.

Even when I defend Amir and call him a good bowler you feel so insecure you have to make up stuff.

 

[Hawkeye]

Even when I defend Amir and call him a good bowler you feel so insecure you have to make up stuff.

How come the only bowler who's taking wickets, bowling tons and tons of overs, just a "support bowler"?

He's the only strike bowler we have, who can make use of the new ball and make it talk both ways.

 

[Syed1]

In the SA series:

Amir: Average 24, Wickets 8
Afridi: Average 27, Wickets 5
Hasan: Average 36, Wickets 3
Abbas: Average 57, Wickets 2
Shah: Average 123, Wickets 1



Surely the highest wicket-taker and lowest averaging bowler is the issue. PP logic ko ikhees toppon ki salami

 

[Arsalan Pro]

In the SA series:

Amir: Average 24, Wickets 8
Afridi: Average 27, Wickets 5
Hasan: Average 36, Wickets 3
Abbas: Average 57, Wickets 2
Shah: Average 123, Wickets 1



Surely the highest wicket-taker and lowest averaging bowler is the issue. PP logic ko ikhees toppon ki salami

Afridi has 9 not 5 but at a higher average and economy than Amir.

 

[Hawkeye]

In the SA series:

Amir: Average 24, Wickets 8
Afridi: Average 27, Wickets 5
Hasan: Average 36, Wickets 3
Abbas: Average 57, Wickets 2
Shah: Average 123, Wickets 1



Surely the highest wicket-taker and lowest averaging bowler is the issue. PP logic ko ikhees toppon ki salami

Logical post after a long time.



Don't understand the hate for Amir.

 

[topspin]

That SA tour was his debut series. Junaid now is a seasoned and experienced bowler and does not carry the hype that Amir does.

Junaid Khan is a lesser bowler than Amir, he's past his purple patch (prior the 2013 injury) when he was bowling at 140 clicks. Now he's a gun barrel straight bowler without much skills to show for. Who wants a 130-135 trundler who can't swing it? His fitness levels and physique are quite ordinary as well.

 

[Birdman]

In the SA series:

Amir: Average 24, Wickets 8
Afridi: Average 27, Wickets 5
Hasan: Average 36, Wickets 3
Abbas: Average 57, Wickets 2
Shah: Average 123, Wickets 1



Surely the highest wicket-taker and lowest averaging bowler is the issue. PP logic ko ikhees toppon ki salami

The problem is the best and most experienced strike bowler who has taken only 8 wickets in 4 inning is not good enough to win test matches.

Olivier has Avg:14.5 and 16 Wkts.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

The problem is the best and most experienced strike bowler who has taken only 8 wickets in 4 inning is not good enough to win test matches.

Olivier has Avg:14.5 and 16 Wkts.

It is basically 8 wickets in 3 innings as a target of 40 should not be considered to be a bowling innings.

Olivier has been bowling to legendary Pakistani batsmen which I am sure Pakistani bowlers would also wish for.

Amir cannot alone win Test matches.

 

[topspin]

Amir is a decent bowler outside Asia and perhaps the best if it turns out Abbas has been worked out but I won't jump to any conclusions with him just yet since he's just come back from injury and after all there are doubts whether he is 100% fit.

I understand OP's frustrations with his lack of commitment of not playing in UAE and trundling but sometimes you have to think horses for courses and the problem is he's one of the best we got. Amir has had a decent 2018 as well, yes he's not running through bowling attacks but at least he's economical and actually utilises the new ball for conventional swing and get wickets - I don't see anyone else doing that! It would be absurd for one to assume the bench and second string bowlers in Hasan Ali, Wahab, Junaid and etc are superior to him outside Asia.

 

[Birdman]

It is basically 8 wickets in 3 innings as a target of 40 should not be considered to be a bowling innings.

Olivier has been bowling to legendary Pakistani batsmen which I am sure Pakistani bowlers would also wish for.

Amir cannot alone win Test matches.

Na, its 4 innings. He did have the opportunity to take few wickets, but he did not. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof, he was hyped up as an extraordinary bowler but has not done anything extraordinary here.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Na, its 4 innings. He did have the opportunity to take few wickets, but he did not. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof, he was hyped up as an extraordinary bowler but has not done anything extraordinary here.

It's not his fault that he was claimed something supernatural by others, he hasn't done it himself and can't be blamed until he is performing the best out of Pakistani bowlers.

 

[Fahdi]

How come the only bowler who's taking wickets, bowling tons and tons of overs, just a "support bowler"?

Because that's how he bowls. It's the style he adopts. I have written at length on it more than once.

Sometimes a different Amir turns up when he bowls at a high pace and swings it prodigiously. But the usual Amir we see now a days operates in an entirely different way.

He's the only strike bowler we have, who can make use of the new ball and make it talk both ways.

Only when there is good amount of swing on offer. Here when that wasn't the case he has done next to nothing with the new ball. Didn't strike once with the new ball in the first match, second match he struck in the 12th over of the first innings when the did a little extra off the pitch, nothing in the second innings.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Because that's how he bowls. It's the style he adopts. I have written at length on it more than once.

Sometimes a different Amir turns up when he bowls at a high pace and swings it prodigiously. But the usual Amir we see now a days operates in an entirely different way.



Only when there is good amount of swing on offer. Here when that wasn't the case he has done next to nothing with the new ball. Didn't strike once with the new ball in the first match, second match he struck in the 12th over of the first innings when the did a little extra off the pitch, nothing in the second innings.

He took a wicket in his first 4.2 overs, of Hashim Amla giving 1 run until then in the first match.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

More than 60% of his deliveries were in the 120-132 kph range. If he doesn't get that pace up, he will get flogged on flat wickets. As it is, he took most of the wickets after SA had scored around 400.

 

[AMSS]

Close your eyes and picture Amir trundling in at 130k on flat, drop-in pitches with an old Kookaburra. Stuff of nightmares if you are a Pak fan.

 

[Pakpak]

The problem is the best and most experienced strike bowler who has taken only 8 wickets in 4 inning is not good enough to win test matches.

Olivier has Avg:14.5 and 16 Wkts.

Olivier had our inept batting to bowl at.

 

[Savak]

Even Wasim Akram is failing to make a difference to Mohd Amir

You have to be really crap to be hit for 2 sixes by Anwar Ali. Is this how the second coming of Wasim performs?