Cricket versus Baseball

sohaib17

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Do you guys watch Baseball .. there are quite a few Aussies playing baseball here in US n Canada ... its hard to understand but its like cricket far too many rules and the game itself is a bit slow .. buh its crazy when you get into it
 
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Baseball like cricket but far too many rules? You cannot have more rules than what cricket has. I do hope it is a fair wicket as it makes it a better watch
 
12thMan said:
Baseball like cricket but far too many rules? You cannot have more rules than what cricket has. I do hope it is a fair wicket as it makes it a better watch

man do you know rules that are in baseball... i watch both and i can say there are far too many mind cracking rules

like Balk which is a pitcher may commit a number of illegal motions or actions which constitute a balk. In games played under Official Baseball Rules, a balk results in a delayed dead ball, and the balk is ignored under specified circumstances. Under other rule sets, notably the National Federation of High Schools (Fed) Baseball Rules in the United States, a balk results in an immediate dead ball. In the event a balk is enforced, the pitch is nullified and each runner is awarded one base while the batter remains at bat with the previous count. The balk rule in Major League Baseball was introduced in 1898

that is just one of its great rules
 
sohaib17 said:
man do you know rules that are in baseball... i watch both and i can say there are far too many mind cracking rules

like Balk which is a pitcher may commit a number of illegal motions or actions which constitute a balk. In games played under Official Baseball Rules, a balk results in a delayed dead ball, and the balk is ignored under specified circumstances. Under other rule sets, notably the National Federation of High Schools (Fed) Baseball Rules in the United States, a balk results in an immediate dead ball. In the event a balk is enforced, the pitch is nullified and each runner is awarded one base while the batter remains at bat with the previous count. The balk rule in Major League Baseball was introduced in 1898

that is just one of its great rules
Don't even start comparing pitching or bowling rules. I don't know what Balk is (maybe a jhappi or whatever it is called that you pretend and not bowl) - cricket you can only bowl with the arm you announce, you can only bowl from the side you announce, you can only stretch your leg to certain line (front or side), you can only bend your arm certain extent. These are just some just to bowl and umpire on the bowler's end is not just there to say LBW or snick but also if ball leaving the hand was legal (not what the ball did after it left).
 
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sohaib17 said:
well i donno maybe you don't like it .. but here in US especially its crazy .. its quite unknown around the world but americans don't care ... its their game and i love it too

i started loving cricket too after watching shoaib and pak in 1999

Baseball is big here in the US..and I agree with you..quite a fun sport when you are into it..like they say..baseball is AMERICA's favorite pastime..
 
sohaib17 said:
lol same is said here about cricket .. least watchable and boring ... just cuz where you live .. you can not deny the fact that its one of the great prime time sports of summer

with a crowd of approximately 30000 people everyday over 162 days .. lol

with bigger markets llike yankees, boston etc they avg around 40 000 people ...

and tv rating are prolly double wht cricket get around the world

You are right about attendance;
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/year/2008

Here are some other stats on MLB;
-- 30 franchise in 28 cities.
-- Season generally begins on the first Sunday in April and ends on the first Sunday in October --- for six month.
-- Play offs are played in October and sometimes into early November.
-- Each team plays a total of 162 games in the regular season (excluding play offs).
-- A total of 2430 games are played in each season (excluding play offs).
 
I enjoy both baseball and cricket equally...I see you are from Canada...Blue Jays are in rebuilding phase again!!!!
 
sohaib17 said:
lol same is said here about cricket .. least watchable and boring ... just cuz where you live .. you can not deny the fact that its one of the great prime time sports of summer

with a crowd of approximately 30000 people everyday over 162 days .. lol

with bigger markets llike yankees, boston etc they avg around 40 000 people ...

and tv rating are prolly double wht cricket get around the world
I've followed (and played) baseball in the past, and honestly, it is poor man's cricket. Almost 10 times dumbed down in terms of skills. Only when you play both do you realize an entirely new dimension that bounce is.

Look at the body sizes of the players; there's almost no athleticism involved (you can spend the entire match just standing in one place), and your strength is in your arms and upper torso.

Baseballs are used almost 100% new, and seaming and turning skill sets are absent. Swing factor is involved, but it's much more predictable given the short distances.

On the batting front, you really only need to learn how to play in the V (no cuts, hooks, pulls, square drives). Playing full tosses (no matter the speed) can spoil you if you've played cricket before.

The existence of rules is mainly because North American sports audience wants to follow a standardized game. Which I think is a good thing, as you want everyone to compete within the same rules. That's true for basketball, football, etc as well. And yes, cricket will not be popular here until its formats are tighter and you can fit a game within a normal day.
 
taaveez said:
I've followed (and played) baseball in the past, and honestly, it is poor man's cricket. Almost 10 times dumbed down in terms of skills. Only when you play both do you realize an entirely new dimension that bounce is.

Look at the body sizes of the players; there's almost no athleticism involved (you can spend the entire match just standing in one place), and your strength is in your arms and upper torso.

Baseballs are used almost 100% new, and seaming and turning skill sets are absent. Swing factor is involved, but it's much more predictable given the short distances.

On the batting front, you really only need to learn how to play in the V (no cuts, hooks, pulls, square drives). Playing full tosses (no matter the speed) can spoil you if you've played cricket before.

The existence of rules is mainly because North American sports audience wants to follow a standardized game. Which I think is a good thing, as you want everyone to compete within the same rules. That's true for basketball, football, etc as well. And yes, cricket will not be popular here until its formats are tighter and you can fit a game within a normal day.
i think you are totally wrong here

i play both sports and i am not being BS but baseball is way harder than cricket ... i ll tell you hitting is prolly hardest in baseball as you have a rounded bat with less than 20% of chance to square of a 95 98 MP ball that is thrown from a smaller distance ... its more intersting in a sense that the strike zone is different with every umpire its an imaginative rectangular box where the pitcher have to throw to get a strike..

pitching is also hard as you don't usually get the movement just placing your arm and body in away .. like to get away swinf from righties a rightie needs to get round arm with a side arm action

here in baseball its about your wrist your fingers ..etc


but both are different and too say one is superior than the other is totally wrong...

And bottom line is i like both of them and thats why i am here on PP ;-)
 
shaaan said:
I enjoy both baseball and cricket equally...I see you are from Canada...Blue Jays are in rebuilding phase again!!!!

yeah i know buh u know wht i am happy with the talent we got and in 2 yrs time we will challenge the evil empires of Yankees n Bosox
 
sohaib17 said:
well i donno maybe you don't like it .. but here in US especially its crazy .. its quite unknown around the world but americans don't care ... its their game and i love it too

i started loving cricket too after watching shoaib and pak in 1999
even in america baseball is not even in top 3 sport, maybe 4 or 5.
 
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sohaib17 said:
i think you are totally wrong here

i play both sports and i am not being BS but baseball is way harder than cricket ... i ll tell you hitting is prolly hardest in baseball as you have a rounded bat with less than 20% of chance to square of a 95 98 MP ball that is thrown from a smaller distance ... its more intersting in a sense that the strike zone is different with every umpire its an imaginative rectangular box where the pitcher have to throw to get a strike..

pitching is also hard as you don't usually get the movement just placing your arm and body in away .. like to get away swinf from righties a rightie needs to get round arm with a side arm action

here in baseball its about your wrist your fingers ..etc


but both are different and too say one is superior than the other is totally wrong...

And bottom line is i like both of them and thats why i am here on PP ;-)
cricket is one of the hardest sport in the world. 100s of factors matters in cricket.
 
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cric said:
even in america baseball is not even in top 3 sport, maybe 4 or 5.
i am pretty sure its second to NFL .. that is because football is more exciting than Baseball more interactions etc etc
 
cric said:
cricket is one of the hardest sport in the world. 100s of factors matters in cricket.
Factors ?????

if you ll say its played over five days etc etc than i should say baseball is 162 games over 175 days ... in a month you only get 1 or 2 days off thats it and they play for 3 n half hours every day lol

i m done with this debate lol :akhtar
 
cric said:
cricket is one of the hardest sport in the world. 100s of factors matters in cricket.
Then you don't know what American football is about.
 
sohaib17 said:
Factors ?????

if you ll say its played over five days etc etc than i should say baseball is 162 games over 175 days ... in a month you only get 1 or 2 days off thats it and they play for 3 n half hours every day lol

i m done with this debate lol :akhtar
it's in 3 different format. test odi 20 20. you need different skills for each format. then weather factor.pitch factor.fast bowlers. medium fast. spinners. off spinors. leg spinners. they have different variations. toss factor. bowling factor. batting factor, different way of making runs boundary singles and doubles, different way of getting out and list continues. you need all the skills thats needed in other sports.
 
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sohaib17 said:
i am pretty sure its second to NFL .. that is because football is more exciting than Baseball more interactions etc etc
NFL. NBA, and then maybe NHL and BASEBALL equal.
 
sohaib17 said:
i play both sports and i am not being BS but baseball is way harder than cricket ... i ll tell you hitting is prolly hardest in baseball as you have a rounded bat with less than 20% of chance to square of a 95 98 MP ball that is thrown from a smaller distance ...
I don't think you play both sports well enough, or you won't say what you did. The speed is 95-98mph BECAUSE of the shorter pitch (about 2 meters shorter); you can't double-count the reason as a result. Cricket has its share of 95 mph bowlers, but speed is only one, and mostly not the key, determinant of the bowling success.

1. The cricket pitch is longer than the baseball pitch, so the ball has to travel longer and has, thus, more chances to do different things. Plain physics.
2. In baseball, that rectangular box is where you have to aim. I can have my eyes half closed (or be half drunk) and in three strikes, there is a good chance I'll end up hitting the ball, as long as I match up the speed. Alternatively, you replace the pitcher with a machine, and the game won't vary much. (And my prediction is that's where the game will end up in 50 years anyways.)
3. The bat is narrower in baseball, but guess what? You've got a lighter bat, which knows that the ball has to fall within the rectangle, and a bigger ball. Plus, the expectations are not to score a 40 run average.
4. Could you bowl a much slower ball in baseball? Only if you'd like it to cower down on the ground before reaching the bat.
5. In cricket, the ball can travel anywhere, bounce anywhere, and be caught anywhere. There are literally million more potential outcomes.
As a result, baseball has to be made ARTIFICIALLY harder, by requiring you to use a narrower bat and to run upon striking. However, even if you get out, you've got several more chances that same night to make up. In cricket, one mistake and that might be the end of the series for you.
6. And I'm not even going to get into the pitch, field placement, ball conditions, and other sources of variations.

Like I said, baseball isn't about skill, it's about, frankly, a simpler game, which had to be toughened up with rules -- so as to make it professionally competitive.

sohaib17 said:
pitching is also hard as you don't usually get the movement just placing your arm and body in away .. like to get away swinf from righties a rightie needs to get round arm with a side arm action

here in baseball its about your wrist your fingers ..etc
Let me ask you this. If I ask you to throw a ball at me when I'm standing 20 metres away, what will be your natural throwing action? If you are one of the 5.9MM normal humans, you will throw it to me in a baseball throw (full chuck) because this is the natural way. Your strength is supposed to be in your arms and not shoulders.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia's fast bowling entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_bowling):
Code:
Bending the elbow and "chucking" the ball would make it too easy
for the bowler to aim accurately at the batsman's wicket and get them out.
Every variation that's available in baseball is also there in cricket. The problem? You cannot throw it, and if you toss it full, you'll get slaughtered.

sohaib17 said:
but both are different and too say one is superior than the other is totally wrong...
No one is calling one superior to the other. But, one is definitely harder than the other, or alternatively, the other is simpler than the first. Hence, the expression "a poor man's version".

That's exactly the reason why one is popular among fans who want to see 9 innings in a 3-hour period and a result. Cricket's T20 is the equivalent in that the skills are dumbed down, but crowd friendliness is improved.

Nothing wrong with either, but let's understand which one is really what. I personally feel cricket has too many formats: tests and ODIs need to be combined into one.
 
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cric said:
NFL. NBA, and then maybe NHL and BASEBALL equal.
no. MLB is generally considered to be the 2nd most popular sports league in the US after the NFL. NBA is 3rd and the NHL a distant 4th.
 
i'm not going to argue that baseball's harder than cricket or that cricket is harder than baseball. both sports played at the highest level demand a great deal of skill. the skill sets might be different but they're there.

i'd like to respond point by point.
1. The cricket pitch is longer than the baseball pitch, so the ball has to travel longer and has, thus, more chances to do different things. Plain physics.
even with a short distance pitchers can make the baseball do a million different things in the air before it reaches the batter. how you hold the seam, finger position, wrist position, release point, speed imparted, etc. all have an effect.
2. In baseball, that rectangular box is where you have to aim. I can have my eyes half closed (or be half drunk) and in three strikes, there is a good chance I'll end up hitting the ball, as long as I match up the speed. Alternatively, you replace the pitcher with a machine, and the game won't vary much. (And my prediction is that's where the game will end up in 50 years anyways.)
complete nonsense. a good pitcher will keep a hitter off balance i.e. make him unsure about a) the speed of the next pitch and/or b) the location. you might think the pitch is going to be 95 mph headed for smack in the middle of the plate, because that's how the pitcher has set you up. but three quarters of the way you'll realize its a curveball headed for your ankles. good pitchers will make you swing at pitches out of the strike zone. i would liken this to how a LBG bowler will set you up with leg break after leg break and then throw in the googly, or a seam bowler will continually seam away and then suddenly bring one in.
3. The bat is narrower in baseball, but guess what? You've got a lighter bat, which knows that the ball has to fall within the rectangle, and a bigger ball. Plus, the expectations are not to score a 40 run average.
okay, plain statistics will tell you that hitting/batting in baseball is harder to do than batting in cricket. over the course of the season, if a baseball hitter is able to successfully hit without getting out 35% of the time, it means he's had a phenomenal season. think about that for a second. 65% of the time you fail, and that is the mark of greatness. that's a success rate probably worse than your average tailender.
4. Could you bowl a much slower ball in baseball? Only if you'd like it to cower down on the ground before reaching the bat.
actually, having the ball do that is a great way to fool a batter and make him swing at it, as i pointed out in 2. pitches such as these are called 'balls in the dirt'. also there's a type of pitcher known as the knuckleballer. average speed is around 65-70 mph. contrast that with fastball pitchers who can reach 100 mph not infrequently. a good pitcher will have a slower pitch in his arsenal, which he'll spring on you from time to time. pitchers rely on change of pace a great deal. even a difference of 5 mph can make a huge difference.
5. In cricket, the ball can travel anywhere, bounce anywhere, and be caught anywhere. There are literally million more potential outcomes.
As a result, baseball has to be made ARTIFICIALLY harder, by requiring you to use a narrower bat and to run upon striking. However, even if you get out, you've got several more chances that same night to make up. In cricket, one mistake and that might be the end of the series for you.
yeah but in cricket you also have the luxury of just letting the ball go. no one's forcing you to play. i might call that artificially making it easier. but i won't. it's just different rules that require different skills.
6. And I'm not even going to get into the pitch, field placement, ball conditions, and other sources of variations.
cool, and i won't get into what pitch the catcher calls depending on whether it's a 3-0 count with 2 on and nobody out and you're down 1 run or an 0-2 count with nobody on base and 2 outs, whether you try to steal a base or bunt the guy over, ball park effects, lefty-righty matchups, no doubles defence, double play depth, infield fly rule, pickoff attempts, etc etc etc.

there are umpteen million nuances to baseball, as there are to cricket. and i think that's one of the main reasons why being a fan of cricket made it easier for me to get into baseball.
 
taaveez said:
I don't think you play both sports well enough, or you won't say what you did. The speed is 95-98mph BECAUSE of the shorter pitch (about 2 meters shorter); you can't double-count the reason as a result. Cricket has its share of 95 mph bowlers, but speed is only one, and mostly not the key, determinant of the bowling success.

1. The cricket pitch is longer than the baseball pitch, so the ball has to travel longer and has, thus, more chances to do different things. Plain physics.
2. In baseball, that rectangular box is where you have to aim. I can have my eyes half closed (or be half drunk) and in three strikes, there is a good chance I'll end up hitting the ball, as long as I match up the speed. Alternatively, you replace the pitcher with a machine, and the game won't vary much. (And my prediction is that's where the game will end up in 50 years anyways.)
3. The bat is narrower in baseball, but guess what? You've got a lighter bat, which knows that the ball has to fall within the rectangle, and a bigger ball. Plus, the expectations are not to score a 40 run average.
4. Could you bowl a much slower ball in baseball? Only if you'd like it to cower down on the ground before reaching the bat.
5. In cricket, the ball can travel anywhere, bounce anywhere, and be caught anywhere. There are literally million more potential outcomes.
As a result, baseball has to be made ARTIFICIALLY harder, by requiring you to use a narrower bat and to run upon striking. However, even if you get out, you've got several more chances that same night to make up. In cricket, one mistake and that might be the end of the series for you.
6. And I'm not even going to get into the pitch, field placement, ball conditions, and other sources of variations.

Like I said, baseball isn't about skill, it's about, frankly, a simpler game, which had to be toughened up with rules -- so as to make it professionally competitive.


Let me ask you this. If I ask you to throw a ball at me when I'm standing 20 metres away, what will be your natural throwing action? If you are one of the 5.9MM normal humans, you will throw it to me in a baseball throw (full chuck) because this is the natural way. Your strength is supposed to be in your arms and not shoulders.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia's fast bowling entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_bowling):
Code:
Bending the elbow and "chucking" the ball would make it too easy
for the bowler to aim accurately at the batsman's wicket and get them out.
Every variation that's available in baseball is also there in cricket. The problem? You cannot throw it, and if you toss it full, you'll get slaughtered.


No one is calling one superior to the other. But, one is definitely harder than the other, or alternatively, the other is simpler than the first. Hence, the expression "a poor man's version".

That's exactly the reason why one is popular among fans who want to see 9 innings in a 3-hour period and a result. Cricket's T20 is the equivalent in that the skills are dumbed down, but crowd friendliness is improved.

Nothing wrong with either, but let's understand which one is really what. I personally feel cricket has too many formats: tests and ODIs need to be combined into one.
what you said in bold just shows ypur little knowledge about baseball .. have you even watched the highlights ... :po:

first go here mlb.com and watch some videos and than come back and give me thoughts

i didn't read your post cuz i just stopped reading it when you started making stuff up and bringing in your personal BS in .. lol :pissed:
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
Baseball is probably the least watchable team game in the world


No that award goes to American Football, truly a dull game...
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
Says a lot about a sport when only one country is playing it

I agree with your point generally although i believe the japanese are heavily into baseball as well.

Generally I despise american sports however somehow I dont mind baseball, I remember a while back channel 5 in the UK used to broadcast live MLB late at night UK time and id leave the tv on watching baseball and eventually nodding off to sleep around 3am or so.
 
Its only Basketball of the American sports i really got into BUT that was about 10 years ago when the coverage here was decent - after that the interest started to die out
 
play both sports and i am not being BS but baseball is way harder than cricket ... i ll tell you hitting is prolly hardest in baseball as you have a rounded bat with less than 20% of chance to square of a 95 98 MP ball

LOL who the heck are you fooling? Just cause its a cricket forum, doesn't mean there are people here with no knowledge of baseball.

If your hitting a 95-98 MPH baseball, trust me, you wouldn't be playing in your school lot, you would be in some league.
 
No I dont.

I'll leave it at that.

Although I have watch the Babe Ruth film and heard of some guy called McGuire (sp) and Sosa (sp) and Roger something - who might have all been drug cheats?
 
Immy Ji said:
No that award goes to American Football, truly a dull game...

it has its moments, and is over relatively quickly, whilst Baseball is a complete snoozefest
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
it has its moments, and is over relatively quickly, whilst Baseball is a complete snoozefest

hmm perhaps thats why i used to enjoy falling asleep at night watching baseball :))
 
^^ definitely...no better way to cure insomnia than to watch the
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World Series
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There's a famous Robin Williams quote that "Cricket is basically baseball on valium". :)

I find it interesting that both baseball and cricket fans think that the other sport is slow and boring. To me it suggests that actually we're not that far apart.

One valid argument against baseball (which holds for NFL as well) is the lack of an international game. Though it's very slowly starting to change. There's the World Baseball Classic, which will be held every 4 years. There's also the Little League World Series, a youth tournament with teams from all over the world. Even Saudi Arabia has a team! I don't follow it too closely but it gets pretty decent coverage from ESPN.
 
^^ that's 'cos the Yanks are too stupid to understand cricket...if they tried to learn the rules of the game, they'd realise it's beauty
 
sohaib17 said:
i think you are totally wrong here

i play both sports and i am not being BS but baseball is way harder than cricket ... i ll tell you hitting is prolly hardest in baseball as you have a rounded bat with less than 20% of chance to square of a 95 98 MP ball that is thrown from a smaller distance ... its more intersting in a sense that the strike zone is different with every umpire its an imaginative rectangular box where the pitcher have to throw to get a strike..

pitching is also hard as you don't usually get the movement just placing your arm and body in away .. like to get away swinf from righties a rightie needs to get round arm with a side arm action

here in baseball its about your wrist your fingers ..etc


but both are different and too say one is superior than the other is totally wrong...

And bottom line is i like both of them and thats why i am here on PP ;-)

Saw a baseball game at Yankee stadium. Found it a little confusing. Asked the guy in front what the rules were. He replied:
"How can you not know what the rules of Baseball are?!" This was followed by
"You don't need to know the rules, you just need Beer!"

Baseball is big dumb sport for Big dump people. In the UK they call it rounders and only under 10s play it. Like a lot of US stuff baseball is over-hyped and over-sold.

Baseball is cricket with all the complexity, elegance, tactics, psychology and nunance taken out.

The best way to understand it is to compare South Asian Cooking to American Cooking.
 
american sports are full of starts and stops.... cricket is similar but not quite
 
hasanb said:
hmm perhaps thats why i used to enjoy falling asleep at night watching baseball :))
SAME CAN BE SAID ABOUT TEST CRICKET .. DON'T YOU THINK ?????
 
Amir said:
LOL who the heck are you fooling? Just cause its a cricket forum, doesn't mean there are people here with no knowledge of baseball.

If your hitting a 95-98 MPH baseball, trust me, you wouldn't be playing in your school lot, you would be in some league.
i never meant to say that i was hitting 95 mp fastball

in general even in MLB hitting 95+ MPH fastball is hard and i did play for my University which is university of Toronto last year and it was fun ...

and please don't act like you know everything lol........


show some respect to others
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
Says a lot about a sport when only one country is playing it
it just goes to show your little knowledge bout baseball...

You know why the West indies are in so dire situation after great dominance in early years...

i ll tell you why its because now people in carribean and the area around their are getting involved in baseball as they get good money as well as they live in US .. almost 40% of players drafted every year by teams are from that area ..

thats why the left overs then go into cricket ..


and japan, Korea (south n North), Australia, South africa, Netherland all have good teams ...and they have players playing in MLB

ever heard of baseball classic .. google it lol
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
Baseball SUCKS!
Yeah, terribly boring. Even the commentators go on 15 minute tangents because there's nothing actually happening in the game. An excessively bloated regular season leading to several meaningless games, a lack of true athletes (hence the plethora of fat dudes in tights), and way too many teams.

South Park had a great episode on baseball where the kids were purposely trying to lose so that they didn't have to play baseball any more. They were just bored of it.
 
Sheikh said:
Yeah, terribly boring. Even the commentators go on 15 minute tangents because there's nothing actually happening in the game. An excessively bloated regular season leading to several meaningless games, a lack of true athletes (hence the plethora of fat dudes in tights), and way too many teams.

South Park had a great episode on baseball where the kids were purposely trying to lose so that they didn't have to play baseball any more. They were just bored of it.

:)) gotta love South Park
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
it has its moments, and is over relatively quickly, whilst Baseball is a complete snoozefest

Don't you find that ironic coming from a Serie A supporter? :D :p

Yeah, terribly boring. Even the commentators go on 15 minute tangents because there's nothing actually happening in the game. An excessively bloated regular season leading to several meaningless games, a lack of true athletes (hence the plethora of fat dudes in tights), and way too many teams.
It definitely needs to change the season strucuture. I have been saying for years, they need to shed the last 2-3 weeks of the season so they can accomdate more teams into the playoffs and thus create more interest.

Says a lot about a sport when only one country is playing it

Didn't know Japan, China, Korea, Canada, Puerto Rico, Domincan Republic and others all amalgmated into one country. Interesting.

Anyways, I am a cricket fan over baseball any day. But there seems to be many wrong (or arrogant) perceptions of baseball (honestly, people who watch darts unless they are just watching and waiting for their turn should be the last to comment!!!).
 
sohaib17 said:
it just goes to show your little knowledge bout baseball...

You know why the West indies are in so dire situation after great dominance in early years...

i ll tell you why its because now people in carribean and the area around their are getting involved in baseball as they get good money as well as they live in US .. almost 40% of players drafted every year by teams are from that area ..

thats why the left overs then go into cricket ..


and japan, Korea (south n North), Australia, South africa, Netherland all have good teams ...and they have players playing in MLB

ever heard of baseball classic .. google it lol

No idea about Japan or Korea

BUT

Australia = Rugby, Cricket, Football, Aussie Rules, Hockey, Athletics etc etc all come before Baseball - its a non event really

South Africa = Rugby, Cricket and Football all come ahead of Baseball - I doubt if Baseball is even played at a decent level

Netherlands = Football is their main sport. Hockey is also popular - where does Baseball really rank in this?


Baseball is all about America - nobody else matters. Its NOT a global sport and never will be
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
Baseball is all about America - nobody else matters. Its NOT a global sport and never will be

Uhhhh, no. Baseball is America's sport in England but the rest of the world live outside that bubble. Mexico, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Canada and Venzeula all have respectable teams. And FYI, Central America produces some of the best players like Albert Pujols (google him, a guy who did it without the drugs).

Japan and China both have an established leagues and commercial markets (and I believe Korea too). In fact, Japan are world champions, so you still believe baseball is not big there?

In your post you mention how you don't know about Japan/China but then go onto make this foolish statement above. If you don't know it exists anywhere else, you can hardly say its America's sport.

I am not an advocate for baseball, cricket trumps it for me, but UKers need to get their head of their butt once in a while and realize there is a world across the water.
 
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a little adjustment, it's basically Americas' sport, along with Japan, Korea...didn't know China was making strides in it though
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
Baseball is probably the least watchable team game in the world

Agreed,
I have been living in Canada for my whole life and have played baseball and watched a few games as well and i can easily say that its the most boring game in the world imo.
 
Amir said:
Uhhhh, no. Baseball is America's sport in England but the rest of the world live outside that bubble. Mexico, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Canada and Venzeula all have respectable teams. And FYI, Central America produces some of the best players like Albert Pujols (google him, a guy who did it without the drugs).

Japan and China both have an established leagues and commercial markets (and I believe Korea too). In fact, Japan are world champions, so you still believe baseball is not big there?

In your post you mention how you don't know about Japan/China but then go onto make this foolish statement above. If you don't know it exists anywhere else, you can hardly say its America's sport.

I am not an advocate for baseball, cricket trumps it for me, but UKers need to get their head of their butt once in a while and realize there is a world across the water.

Again your post is all nice and pretty BUT is frankly lacks any meaning whatsoever in relation to my point

A few countries play baseball and that proves its a global sport? yeah right - there are as much if not more that play Darts BUT that does not mean anything really. Heck i bet Tddlywinks is played in more countries
 
Oh and the fact thats its shown on Channel 5 here pretty much tells you all you need to know about it
 
sohaib17 said:
SAME CAN BE SAID ABOUT TEST CRICKET .. DON'T YOU THINK ?????

No I dont think....and do you usually have to post with Caps Lock on to be noticed?
 
Hooked _for_6 said:
Saw a baseball game at Yankee stadium. Found it a little confusing. Asked the guy in front what the rules were. He replied:
"How can you not know what the rules of Baseball are?!" This was followed by
"You don't need to know the rules, you just need Beer!"

Baseball is big dumb sport for Big dump people. In the UK they call it rounders and only under 10s play it. Like a lot of US stuff baseball is over-hyped and over-sold.

Baseball is cricket with all the complexity, elegance, tactics, psychology and nunance taken out.

The best way to understand it is to compare South Asian Cooking to American Cooking.

:))) :)))

Thats the thing you notice about American Sports - mainly NFL and Baseball, its all about the Food and Drink. It would be interesting to know what would happen to a American sports attendance if Alcohol was prohibited
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
Again your post is all nice and pretty BUT is frankly lacks any meaning whatsoever in relation to my point

A few countries play baseball and that proves its a global sport? yeah right - there are as much if not more that play Darts BUT that does not mean anything really. Heck i bet Tddlywinks is played in more countries

This is where we differ. On the definition of global sport. To me any sport, that is played internationally that is recgonizable (keyword) is a global sport. Baseball has its own World Cup and there are multiple leagues around the world that have proper commercial value. On the other hand, pigskin football I do not regard as international because there is no international set up for starters and very few markets as opposed to baseball with many markets.

I just find it like throughout your argument, you been stretching it. First, you said it was America's sport. Then when you found out there are others (which you didn't know and made this passing comment), you know have to stretch your argument even further. So I ask you, where is the threshold? How many countries have to be playing baseball for you to recgonize it is an international sport? And once there is that many countries, what do you do....do you keep stretching that threshold until it conforms to your argument?

The facts are at least on the table. Baseball, whether you like it or not has viable markets around the world and is not only played by the US.
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
:))) :)))

Thats the thing you notice about American Sports - mainly NFL and Baseball, its all about the Food and Drink. It would be interesting to know what would happen to a American sports attendance if Alcohol was prohibited

Unfortunately this is the downfall of the American sporting industry. Too many a time they price out people who just want to see teh game, for corporate junkies who turn up to the big games and when they do, they send 10 dollars on a cup of beer.

I have always said the American sporting structure needs to change, but it won't. As long as it is yielding some profits, these guys only get greedier. Perfect example overseas would be the idiot Glazers and pricing out United fans.
 
Amir said:
This is where we differ. On the definition of global sport. To me any sport, that is played internationally that is recgonizable (keyword) is a global sport. Baseball has its own World Cup and there are multiple leagues around the world that have proper commercial value. On the other hand, pigskin football I do not regard as international because there is no international set up for starters and very few markets as opposed to baseball with many markets.

I just find it like throughout your argument, you been stretching it. First, you said it was America's sport. Then when you found out there are others (which you didn't know and made this passing comment), you know have to stretch your argument even further. So I ask you, where is the threshold? How many countries have to be playing baseball for you to recgonize it is an international sport? And once there is that many countries, what do you do....do you keep stretching that threshold until it conforms to your argument?

The facts are at least on the table. Baseball, whether you like it or not has viable markets around the world and is not only played by the US.

There is actually a baseball world cup? it says a lot when a domestic tournament (the laughably named world series) is more know than the baseball world cup (if that is what its called)

My comment was tongue in cheek - i think you will find there is no sport that is restricted to any one country, regardless of how odd it might be (see Buzkashi for example) so that comment of mine was not entirely serious - BUT the general point remains, when you think Baseball you think America.

pigskin football is played in Europe so its as global as Baseball is
 
There is actually a baseball world cup? it says a lot when a domestic tournament (the laughably named world series) is more know than the baseball world cup (if that is what its called)

Well it started in America yes, but in the past 20 years, baseball has grown exponentially throughout the world. The World Cup only started a few years ago, as I said, it has grown so now there are more viable teams.

My comment was tongue in cheek - i think you will find there is no sport that is restricted to any one country, regardless of how odd it might be (see Buzkashi for example) so that comment of mine was not entirely serious - BUT the general point remains, when you think Baseball you think America.
Not the same. All sports are played somewhere else in the world. The question is do they have a recgonizable and commercial market? This is where baseball differs.

And when you think of baseball you think of America, well possibly because it started there. Same with basketball (though in Canada but recgonizable in America). Basketball has grown int'ly over the past 15 years, prior to that it was all America. America use to put out their C team and win the Olympic Gold. Is it just cause now that you watch basketball you don't regard it as the same? It has the same roots as baseball.

Moreover just cause the UK bubble thinks it, doesn't mean it holds true. Hopefully, I have opened your eyes in this thread to recgonize it is played in other markets and has much recgonition. Maybe next time you think of baseball, you will think of this thread.

pigskin football is played in Europe so its as global as Baseball is
No. Its has two markets, which never play each other competitively or any international fixtures. Baseball has many recgonizable leagues that do play each other competitively internationally.
 
Amir said:
Not the same. All sports are played somewhere else in the world. The question is do they have a recgonizable and commercial market? This is where baseball differs.

And when you think of baseball you think of America, well possibly because it started there. Same with basketball (though in Canada but recgonizable in America). Basketball has grown int'ly over the past 15 years, prior to that it was all America. America use to put out their C team and win the Olympic Gold. Is it just cause now that you watch basketball you don't regard it as the same? It has the same roots as baseball.

Moreover just cause the UK bubble thinks it, doesn't mean it holds true. Hopefully, I have opened your eyes in this thread to recgonize it is played in other markets and has much recgonition. Maybe next time you think of baseball, you will think of this thread.

Actually i hope i dont ever have to think of Baseball because it will mean i would have really sunken to the depths of boredom - heck i have wasted far too much time talking about such a bakwaas khel in this thread

I dont watch Basketball anymore - actually my comment about Baseball being an American thing is applicable to the other American sports

The Americans sports are geared perfectly to their culture of lazy and obesity - its all about constant time out's and eating junk food
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
Actually i hope i dont ever have to think of Baseball because it will mean i would have really sunken to the depths of boredom - heck i have wasted far too much time talking about such a bakwaas khel in this thread

I dont watch Basketball anymore - actually my comment about Baseball being an American thing is applicable to the other American sports

The Americans sports are geared perfectly to their culture of lazy and obesity - its all about constant time out's and eating junk food
reading through your posts i get this sense that you don't like baseball or other american sports just because they are boring etc but you don't like them because they are American sports and as usual you are a typical pakistani who just hates American even their good things ..

ill give u an example

last time i was in pakistan ( way back in 2003) this Mullah and his friends started hammering their tv with long sticks in front of everyone on the road just because Bush was giving a speech

now this is what i call just pure stupidity
 
sohaib17 said:
reading through your posts i get this sense that you don't like baseball or other american sports just because they are boring etc but you don't like them because they are American sports and as usual you are a typical pakistani who just hates American even their good things ..

ill give u an example

last time i was in pakistan ( way back in 2003) this Mullah and his friends started hammering their tv with long sticks in front of everyone on the road just because Bush was giving a speech

now this is what i call just pure stupidity

Actually your post is stupidity for making a wild assumption

I dont hate America nor all American sports. I used to follow Basketball BUT the other sports dont really appeal to me

As for your example - Im not surprised with that reaction. Bush is a mass murderer and you should have applauded the reactions of those people instead of labelling them as "Mullahs"
 
another really stupid thing about baseball is how Errors are part of the scoring
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
another really stupid thing about baseball is how Errors are part of the scoring
why do you find it stupid? it's a good measure of defensive (i.e. fielding) ability.
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
another really stupid thing about baseball is how Errors are part of the scoring
thats a good thing that enable us or scouts to see how good the fielder is


only if it was in cricket pak would be in last among all teams lol
 
sohaib17 said:
thats a good thing that enable us or scouts to see how good the fielder is


only if it was in cricket pak would be in last among all teams lol

lol, so you would look at a scorecard rather than use the good ol' eyes to see how good a player is? lame statistic, laughable that it is part of the scoring
 
Born and raised Pakistani in New York/New Jersey.

Always preferred cricket over baseball.

I think baseball is trash.
 
AZ I usually respect you as a poster but that is a terribly stupid post. They track it not because they don't know how good a player is. People do watch it and can see how good a player is. Tracking errors is just a statistical reason, its not cause they can't tell.

Your argument is very poor. There is no structure and you seem to be a wind up right now because I am not sure anyone can logically support your point. Its almost as saying "why track a batsmen strike rate....if your watching it, you should know how fast he is batting!"
 
Amir said:
AZ I usually respect you as a poster but that is a terribly stupid post. They track it not because they don't know how good a player is. People do watch it and can see how good a player is. Tracking errors is just a statistical reason, its not cause they can't tell.

Your argument is very poor. There is no structure and you seem to be a wind up right now because I am not sure anyone can logically support your point. Its almost as saying "why track a batsmen strike rate....if your watching it, you should know how fast he is batting!"

I'm not looking for support here buddy, there are tons of reasons why Baseball sucks...the Errors part is one thing I find really stupid, so see it whichever way you like, not here to convince you on why I dislike the game
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
Baseball is probably the least watchable team game in the world

Funny, that's what a lot of Americans say about cricket too. Just goes to show how most games can be unwatchable if you don't know how to play them, don't know what the rules are or haven't grown up watching them. That said, you're entitled to your opinion of course, though millions of Americans, Japanese, Canucks and South Americans would probably disagree.

Personally, being a pretty keen sportsman, I've tried to learn to play as many games as I can of sports I'm not familiar with. So when I moved to the US I started to play gridiron (though I played that in OZ), ice hockey (fun but @#$% hard and I spent more time slipping and landing on my ****) and baseball.

I found playing baseball fascinating. It’s a lot more challenging than it looks. And even though it looks like batters just heave at the ball it takes a lot of skill to hit it with a rounded bat, and with a 70 degree field in front of you. We may think that there's less skill involved in batting in baseball, but the margins for error are very small - the bat has a much smaller contact area, plus you have a narrow field in which to hit the ball. Plus in cricket you can play and miss and leave the ball - in baseball you can only play and miss three times and leaving the ball is risky. In baseball you cannot a ) play yourself in; b ) swing and miss more than 3 times; and c ) cut or pull the ball more than 60 degrees to either side. And basically you have 8 fielders in front of you, all in your scoring areas. If you try and nudge the ball around a la Paul Collingwood you will likely get runout while if you keep smashing it in the air a la Afridi slogging it to cow corner you have a good chance of getting caught unless you're hitting it for six regularly. It's a lot harder than it looks.

Then as a pitcher you have a very small strike zone to work in, and a limited number of pitches to do your job before you get yanked. I've been impressed with how some of the pitchers can make the ball move in the air without the benefit of a ) shining the ball; b ) getting it scuffed; and c ) making contact with the ground. Keep in mind they replace the ball after pretty much every few hits or so.

One area where cricket is definitely harder is in fielding, both in the slips and in the run saving areas without using gloves.

It's an intriguing sport. Can't say I prefer it to cricket, but then again I grew up playing cricket.

I think there's a lot that cricket can take out of baseball, just as there's a lot baseball can take out of cricket. The long, flat throws from the outfield that most cricket teams use now were pioneered by Australia as a result of the training the team got from our baseball fielding coach Mike Young.
 
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Geordie Ahmed said:
The Americans sports are geared perfectly to their culture of lazy and obesity - its all about constant time out's and eating junk food

Actually GA it's about advertising!! Makes the world go round in terms of the bling bling here.
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
I'm not looking for support here buddy, there are tons of reasons why Baseball sucks...the Errors part is one thing I find really stupid, so see it whichever way you like, not here to convince you on why I dislike the game

Oh I know, I am just telling you your argument is crap and point is your thicker than I thought.
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
another really stupid thing about baseball is how Errors are part of the scoring

It's not part of the scoring but part of the statistics that are collected about each player. Which isn't a bad thing - I'd love to see stats on what our slip cordon's dropped chances % is, and going even further to try and determine what the average cost in runs/losses etc each drop cost. I would love to see all that Sabermetric stuff in cricket. :)
 
OZGOD said:
It's not part of the scoring but part of the statistics that are collected about each player. Which isn't a bad thing - I'd love to see stats on what our slip cordon's dropped chances % is, and going even further to try and determine what the average cost in runs/losses etc each drop cost. I would love to see all that Sabermetric stuff in cricket. :)

lol, that is something I definitely would NOT want to see for the Pakistan team :p
 
OZGOD said:
It's not part of the scoring but part of the statistics that are collected about each player. Which isn't a bad thing - I'd love to see stats on what our slip cordon's dropped chances % is, and going even further to try and determine what the average cost in runs/losses etc each drop cost. I would love to see all that Sabermetric stuff in cricket. :)
you know i'm pretty sure this sort of analysis is being done ever since Bob Woolmer became the pioneer 'laptop coach'. in his stint with South Africa he had fielding down to a science.

the only difference in this respect between baseball and cricket is that in baseball a lot of this statistical analysis is in the public domain. it's actually fans of the game who are doing some of the best work. whereas in cricket this is all behind the scenes and not accessible to the viewing public.
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
as always, didn't ask for your opinion

Obviously you did if your posting such stupid comments on a message board, open to anyone to comment.
 
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Not a big fan of baseball but if I should pick a side, it would be the Toronto Blu-Jays, the side that won back to back world series with Robbie Alomar, Devon WHite, Joe Carter, John Allurude coached by Cito Gaston.....................
 
Was never really into either sport cricket or baseball.. Growing up in the US I never really knew anything but cricket except from what my father told me of his experiences back in the day.. Baseball just wasnt my thing was too obsessed with NFL ( American football) to even look at another sport, yeah same goes for NBA...
 
Don't understand the rules and don't intend to. I'm not a fan of American sports generally.....far too many stoppages. I think it's something to do with Americans and their low attention spans.
 
I watch only good baseball matches, I know all the rules :D

I also watch NBA, NFL, and NHL :)
 
I went to a baseball game in chicago last year. It was a lot of fun. Cricket could learn a lot from it.
 
If it’s all about a bat, ball and pitching it right, how can baseball be far behind in India!

Major League Baseball, one of USA’s favourite sport, is slowly spreading its wings in India and recently celebrated its first anniversary in July, when the lockdown derailed its home run.

In no tearing hurry to establish an American sport in India, MLS has long-term plans and wishes to ride the popularity of Bollywood and cricket’s superstars at an “appropriate” juncture.

Speaking to Outlook, Jim Small, Major League Baseball’s senior vice president, international, said that baseball and cricket had “many crossovers” but to understand the fundamentals of a fiercely professional game, that wins some of the largest global broadcast fees, “will be a difficult one.”

Jim Small (left), Major League Baseball’s senior vice president, during an event

Small says India is unique and therefore needs an ecosystem that wins “social permission” to grow.

“India is not like any other place in the world. It will be disrespectful if we tried to replicate the US way or the Chinese way here. Our aim is to make MLB an Indian sport and establish multiple social connects for kids to learn and play,” said Small.

READ: MLB Cancels All-Star Game For First Time Since 1945

MLB has already taken baby but effective steps in India. Till the lockdown forced a break in the development plans, MLB claims to have reached out to over 30,000 children in the age-group of 8-14 years through 320 workshops in schools across Mumbai, Delhi-NCR and Bengaluru as a part of its First Pitch Program.

“The idea is not to work in specific markets but run programmes nationally. We wish to work with the states and the education departments so that we can reach the schools, our focus area,” said Small, adding that north-east India, that has a natural affinity for Westernised sport, will get attention.

“I believe there is a strong baseball population in Manipur. They were inspired by US Airmen who were based in Manipur during World War II,” Small said.

Apart from spreading baseball through coaching programmes, MLB wants to explore the online gaming platforms route to expand its market. Cricket across the world is riding fantasy sports platforms to grow and MLB could do the same.

"We could work together with the BCCI and give them a value proposition in the United States. When India goes to play cricket in the US, they play in baseball stadiums. So there can be synergy," Small explained.

The top MLB official said it was important to work with the national baseball federation of India and to build a strong national team was a priority.

“Why not have a India vs Pakistan or India vs China in baseball. To represent the country is a major attraction and we will like an Indian team participate in global tournaments,” said Small.

While MLB will fund most developmental work in the initial years, Small said it would look at a “mix” model to grow and sustain the game since MLB can’t be an “eternal sponsor.”

“We know it will take some time to grow the numbers in India but once we have them, local sponsors who have kids in their mind and an attitude to change lives through sports will be our ideal partners,” said Small.

China have been a major market for MLB. The game has grown and attracted a lot of local sponsorship. “Rather than a Coca-Cola coming and trying to buy everything off, local sponsors work better,” said Small.

With education-technology platforms among the biggest spenders in Indian sports, MLB should have options but as Small reckons, “growing baseball through a robust ecosystem will be top priority.”

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...kets-help-to-spread-footprint-in-india/359420
 
Baseball is a great sport, not sure how one can argue otherwise as the same arguments can be made against cricket.. if you watch the MLB playoffs you’ll see how entertaining and strategic the game can be.
 
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