Deliberate under performance, non cooperation with the captain, team management should have the same penalty as match fixing ie life ban

Savak

Test Captain
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We have seen the devastating consequences the Wasim Waqar rift had on Pakistani Cricket in the 90's and early 2000's.

There are plenty of media reports and sources claiming that around 8-9 players in the team were unhappy at Babar being given the captaincy for this T20 WC and the team was split in the Shaheen camp, Rizwan camp.

The PCB apparently knew full well about the problems in the team and how the players felt and apparently Mohsin Naqvi knew about this and his repeated visits to the players, team was to convince everyone to put aside their differences for the WC and all issues would be resolved after wards.

Everyone can clearly see on this WC the team was just not determined or committed to the cause.

I don't need to go into details off the teams off field activities and equation during the WC.

Question is if this is all proven true as per the reports of the captain, coach, manager, should the guilty players be given life bans to deter this crap from our cricket culture once and for all.
 
The players aren't good enough.

We can hide behind this drama of unity and stuff to make ourselves feel better.

But they just weren't good enough. Let's accept it and find a fix for the real issues plaguing our cricket and stop falling for this stuff.
 
I don't think it is possible to prove deliberate under performance, the others can be somewhat proven but they are subjective in nature and can be abused easily. Bans like this should be done onky when dealing with matters that can be proven with objectivity and truth, else it could backfire
 
The players aren't good enough.

We can hide behind this drama of unity and stuff to make ourselves feel better.

But they just weren't good enough. Let's accept it and find a fix for the real issues plaguing our cricket and stop falling for this stuff.
This.
They are just not good enough and should be kept away from Pak cricket!
 
We have to keep the following players away from Pakistan team for the next 2 years,

1. Babar Azam
2. Muhammad Rizwan
3. Shaheen Shah Afridi
4. Haris Rauf
5. Shadab Khan
6. Iftikhar Ahmed

Azam Khan should be kept away from our team forever.

We need to break this nexus and start from scratch.

Also, we need to keep Shahid Afridi away from the team. Else we might see his entire family playing for Pakistan.
 
Are they professional cricketers or a bunch of teenagers who can't get along?
 
Their wasn't any deliberate underperformance,

However since the past 4 years, the whole team is being selected to make babar and rizwan look good.

1) Fakhar Zaman

Fakhar is the ultimate confidence type player. When on song he can play innings no one in pakistan since the era of Saeed Anwar has been able to. The goal should have been to focus on how to make fakhar less inconsistent and more in form and understand why he's off color on most days.

Instead we shove him down to no 4 in t20, remove him from test and often boot him out in odi as well, He sat out half the cup for Abdullah and Imam lmao.

Why was he shoved down? Well because Misbah the great thinks fakhar is a goat at no 4 and rizwan is the opening king, if misbah was even remotely competent and not prejudice he'd try to coach fakhar on how to be more consistent.

2) Other players

Had to put fakhar in his own category, regardless many others are being shoved away or just not being given confidence as theirs a fear of failing and being sacked.

- Saud shakeel is a top to middle order bat but he is forced to play at 5 and sometimes at 6 to accommodate babar and rizwan. A position that's unnatural for him despite him being miles superior to rizzu as a player.

- Abrar Ahmed is being sidelined for sheddy friendship and babar is obviously hiding behind the whole but this tailender who can slog tulle baz is am allrounder on no 5.

- Tayyab was removed without getting a single odi game last year.

- Agha Salman is nowhere to be seen in the t20 squad due to Shadab and Chacha.

- Players like Muhammad haris is sitting out and not being allowed even league contracts due to the clown show that is wahab riaz.

^^ All these players up above and many more aren't being allowed to develop, They can play brilliant games, in the case of haris who was responsible for taking us to the final in 2022 wc, but the moment their off color their dropped for good, However rizwan and babar get free rides, as does shadab, as does chacha etc etc.

The only people who's gotten a fair run are Abdullah shafiq and Saim ayub, Abdullah capitalised but Saim didn't. The rest is a clown show.

Every tournament babar and rizwan top score by either being openers, Dropping players, or choosing absolute crap baskets like Chacha and shadab so that everyone can say Ha ha, look babar and rizwan are the best once again.

You're not developing anyone besides babar and rizwan so obviously no one will develop, Even Abdullah shafiw who's gotten a fair run now had to sit out until asia cup match against sri lanka and after wc 2023 where he did do well, He's sitting out of the t20 team and barely getting a proper psl?

Side Note: Just wanted to add this, Chacha always fields at slip with rizwan and drops catches and bottles games. I added this for you @Mohraheem

But ya you get the point, everyone is their to make babar and rizwan look good, thats where the priprities are, not to actually win a tournament. Thank you for your services to our cricket Lord Misbah ul Haq.
 
You need to keep Ramiz Raja far away too.

He is a far worse influence on the nexus as you say.
Babar group kinds reminds me of the nexus lol. Big dawgs to lonely individual superstars. But become random caws as soon as the face the big leagues in an 8 v 8 🤣. In bobby case it's 11 v 11
 
So many threads on this topic of grouping, politics. It’s a coping mechanism. The truth is that this group of players, irrespective of the politics, are behind on skills and fitness.
Even if they were United and gelled together, they would not amount to anything.
I wish the focus and discussion can focus more on skill development, particularly in batting department.
 
So many threads on this topic of grouping, politics. It’s a coping mechanism. The truth is that this group of players, irrespective of the politics, are behind on skills and fitness.
Even if they were United and gelled together, they would not amount to anything.
I wish the focus and discussion can focus more on skill development, particularly in batting department.

Yes they are behind on all the things you mentioned.

But we have had too many revolts grouping in our cricket history to the detriment of the team without any punishment to the offenders. Its about time an example is set of career ending punishment for this offence to deter future generations.
 
We have seen the devastating consequences the Wasim Waqar rift had on Pakistani Cricket in the 90's and early 2000's.

There are plenty of media reports and sources claiming that around 8-9 players in the team were unhappy at Babar being given the captaincy for this T20 WC and the team was split in the Shaheen camp, Rizwan camp.

The PCB apparently knew full well about the problems in the team and how the players felt and apparently Mohsin Naqvi knew about this and his repeated visits to the players, team was to convince everyone to put aside their differences for the WC and all issues would be resolved after wards.

Everyone can clearly see on this WC the team was just not determined or committed to the cause.

I don't need to go into details off the teams off field activities and equation during the WC.

Question is if this is all proven true as per the reports of the captain, coach, manager, should the guilty players be given life bans to deter this crap from our cricket culture once and for all.
How do you prove under performance? It has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt to impose any sanctions otherwise it will be thrown away by court. Plus it has to be fact based otherwise it could lead to vendetta politics.
 
They are not even mildly capable of turning the matches upside down like how Indians did twice in this tournament. So what’s the nakhra and groupings for?

These timid nobodies have lost to everybody home and away.

At least the 2W’s were legends and match-winners and could win games with sheer talent and skills.

I’m predicting the Zimbabwe level in 10 years. That’s how serious the matters are.
 
We have seen the devastating consequences the Wasim Waqar rift had on Pakistani Cricket in the 90's and early 2000's.

There are plenty of media reports and sources claiming that around 8-9 players in the team were unhappy at Babar being given the captaincy for this T20 WC and the team was split in the Shaheen camp, Rizwan camp.

The PCB apparently knew full well about the problems in the team and how the players felt and apparently Mohsin Naqvi knew about this and his repeated visits to the players, team was to convince everyone to put aside their differences for the WC and all issues would be resolved after wards.

Everyone can clearly see on this WC the team was just not determined or committed to the cause.

I don't need to go into details off the teams off field activities and equation during the WC.

Question is if this is all proven true as per the reports of the captain, coach, manager, should the guilty players be given life bans to deter this crap from our cricket culture once and for all.
There was no deliberate underperformance, no fights etc. The players were roaming around in US together as a happy bunch eating burgers,fries etc together and doing meet and greet. Unprofessional or semi-professional, yes.
But this is the best they could perform to. USA team came with perfect plans and executed them to down Pakistan.

Instead of going by fake media reports without any basis, as you do usually, just accept for once that domestic cricket is bad in Pakistan and there are a lot of structural issues to fix for such inconsistent performances. On top of that Babar's acumen and his selections are horrible. Shadab is not a No.5 batter for example. Fix these issues.
 
This cricket team or the PCB is a face of the country - incompetent, chaotic, shambles and unprofessional.

Domestic cricket/club/school in the whole country needs a serious revamp or we are heading to Zimbabwe level in 10 years.
 
How do you prove under performance? It has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt to impose any sanctions otherwise it will be thrown away by court. Plus it has to be fact based otherwise it could lead to vendetta politics.

If the managers, coach and captain are all saying the same stuff and if the PCB chairman knew there were issues in the team prior to the team then there is no smoke without fire. Let's be honest the manner in which Babar yanked the captaincy from Shaheen, everyone knew there would be issues in the team.
 
Yes they are behind on all the things you mentioned.

But we have had too many revolts grouping in our cricket history to the detriment of the team without any punishment to the offenders. Its about time an example is set of career ending punishment for this offence to deter future generations.
"Punishments” have been administered in the past, resulting in entire teams and individual players being sacked. Key players have been 'banned'—for instance, Pakistan once banned Younus and Yousuf after an Australian tour, only to swiftly reinstate them, highlighting setbacks caused. Despite Babar and Rizwan's lack of skills viz a viz international products, they continue to be the most skilled batters in Pakistan.

Punitive measures are not enduring solutions. Rather, the emphasis should shift towards reinforcement and gentle guidance. Building confidence within the team, fostering a sense of security, and developing a robust bench strength are pivotal. Competition nurtures healthy tension and motivates players to enhance their capabilities.
 
We have seen the devastating consequences the Wasim Waqar rift had on Pakistani Cricket in the 90's and early 2000's.

There are plenty of media reports and sources claiming that around 8-9 players in the team were unhappy at Babar being given the captaincy for this T20 WC and the team was split in the Shaheen camp, Rizwan camp.

The PCB apparently knew full well about the problems in the team and how the players felt and apparently Mohsin Naqvi knew about this and his repeated visits to the players, team was to convince everyone to put aside their differences for the WC and all issues would be resolved after wards.

Everyone can clearly see on this WC the team was just not determined or committed to the cause.

I don't need to go into details off the teams off field activities and equation during the WC.

Question is if this is all proven true as per the reports of the captain, coach, manager, should the guilty players be given life bans to deter this crap from our cricket culture once and for all.
Deliberate underperformance?? :facepalm Bhai, Pakistani players are not that powerful.
You lost to USA in a super over, which in itself was amazing come back for Pakistan. USA had bossed Pakistan for 75% of the game.
So last 4-5 overs of amazing fast bowling was underperformance by Pakistan?

No one was crying about it when India barely limped across 100 and actually got bowled in 19 overs. How was that underperformance?
Pakistan was simply not good enough or prepared for the tournament. That's it. Every loss doesn't have to be a conspiracy and intentional criminal acts against the team.

Honestly, sometimes I feel that Pakistani public is jealous of their own countrymen and loves to bring down their own team.
 
"Punishments” have been administered in the past, resulting in entire teams and individual players being sacked. Key players have been 'banned'—for instance, Pakistan once banned Younus and Yousuf after an Australian tour, only to swiftly reinstate them, highlighting setbacks caused. Despite Babar and Rizwan's lack of skills viz a viz international products, they continue to be the most skilled batters in Pakistan.

Punitive measures are not enduring solutions. Rather, the emphasis should shift towards reinforcement and gentle guidance. Building confidence within the team, fostering a sense of security, and developing a robust bench strength are pivotal. Competition nurtures healthy tension and motivates players to enhance their capabilities.

Not totally disagreeing with this post. I hope the PCB gives total control of the team to Gary Kirsten, Gillespie and empowering a new captain outside of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen.
 
The players aren't good enough.

We can hide behind this drama of unity and stuff to make ourselves feel better.

But they just weren't good enough. Let's accept it and find a fix for the real issues plaguing our cricket and stop falling for this stuff.
It's a bit of both actually, the players are definitely not good enough. They weren't underperforming, they just got outplayed. It's an issue we need to try and fix. 100% agreed on that.

However, the lack of unity and divisions within the team is a very real issue too and it can't be brushed under the carpet. It affects the performance of the team even if they aren't deliberately underperforming.
 
Babar is not an opening bat or a power bat like Fakhar, Fakhar is a must in the power play overs 1/6, it is well known Babar has his issues with spin bowling,

Babar trades places with Fakhar who is also very good player of spin?

Problem is Fakhar isn't really an accumulator (middle overs) that's more Rizwan Shadab type bat


I personally. Would give free reign to Gary and Jason to pick the teams and captains (as long as it's not Babbar) as they see fit ( it can't get any worse than T24WC
 
The players aren't good enough.

We can hide behind this drama of unity and stuff to make ourselves feel better.

But they just weren't good enough. Let's accept it and find a fix for the real issues plaguing our cricket and stop falling for this stuff.

They are good. But they don't have the will to learn and improve. As a player you need to evolve with time. Even geniuses like Wasim Akram or Sachin Tendulkar or Shane Warne had to do so.

Sachin Tendulkar had to add the slog sweep and paddle sweep to his repetoire to counter Warne in 1998.

Wasim Akram devised the famous leg cutter to outfox batsmen.

Warne added the slider to his armoury.

Here you have young players hyped by media and social media campaigns who think they are already the best.
 
First of all our king captain will get sacked due to this clause. lol

This media campaign of calling him King was so cringe.

Media had started calling Kohli as King Kohli as it rhymed(Original King is King Viv).

Suddenly you have pakistani media calling Babar as King Babar.

It seemed it was a media blitz to create a super star.
 
Waiting for unnecessary and passionate on field hugs and encouragements between Babar, Rizwan and shaheen in a meaningless bilateral matches
 
There was no deliberate underperformance, no fights etc. The players were roaming around in US together as a happy bunch eating burgers,fries etc together and doing meet and greet. Unprofessional or semi-professional, yes.
But this is the best they could perform to. USA team came with perfect plans and executed them to down Pakistan.

Instead of going by fake media reports without any basis, as you do usually, just accept for once that domestic cricket is bad in Pakistan and there are a lot of structural issues to fix for such inconsistent performances. On top of that Babar's acumen and his selections are horrible. Shadab is not a No.5 batter for example. Fix these issues.
These issues are not fixable. Not until the whole country and it’s system are fixed.

Pakistan cricket will not get talented cricketers anymore as there will be barely anyone left to play this sport.

You can’t inspire a generation when all your national team does is lose every game they play. They win by flukes, they have no skill and they don’t even understand the tactical side of the game.

I am expecting Pakistan to get destroyed by Bangladesh at home aswell in August, such is the level of confidence in the players at the moment.

We should really have the CT taken away from us to get people to understand the gravity of the situation.

Our legacy is getting tarnished by this bunch of no-good jahil cricketers representing a once proud cricketing nation.
 
This media campaign of calling him King was so cringe.

Media had started calling Kohli as King Kohli as it rhymed(Original King is King Viv).

Suddenly you have pakistani media calling Babar as King Babar.

It seemed it was a media blitz to create a super star.
But he was a king before and during the initial phases of his captaincy. He was scoring runs three years ago and remained the No. 1 ODI batter for quite a long time, earning big awards from the ICC and improving his Test stats and ranking. The downfall only started in 2022. He lacks cricketing sense, and I don't think he can improve it now, as he has already had plenty of time to work on his weaknesses.
 
But he was a king before and during the initial phases of his captaincy. He was scoring runs three years ago and remained the No. 1 ODI batter for quite a long time, earning big awards from the ICC and improving his Test stats and ranking. The downfall only started in 2022. He lacks cricketing sense, and I don't think he can improve it now, as he has already had plenty of time to work on his weaknesses.

He was never King.

He has one test century outside AsiA.

Many of his runs have come against B or C teams of the opposition.

Then came the flat tracks in Pakistan where opposition could score 500 in a day. Babar filled his boots.

Babar isn't half as good as media portrayed him.
 
He was never King.

He has one test century outside AsiA.

Many of his runs have come against B or C teams of the opposition.

Then came the flat tracks in Pakistan where opposition could score 500 in a day. Babar filled his boots.

Babar isn't half as good as media portrayed him.
Not defending him but this is not his mistake if Pakistan have more fixtures against B,C D teams and not touring out of asia much.
 
Not defending him but this is not his mistake if Pakistan have more fixtures against B,C D teams and not touring out of asia much.

When they tour Babar usually fails.

When did Kohli last played versus Zimbabwe? Or a b c d team?

Babar is miles away from Inzy. Let alone be a King.

Asia cup 2023, Pakistan bowled out India for 266 in very helpful conditions. Not 66 or 166 but 266. The pakistani media including this forum hyped Pakistani attack as the best fast bowling attack in the world.

This media hype has gone to the head of the players. They think they are but they aren't what media is hyping them to be.

And this started with one player a very avg player who was hyped by media for 15 years.
 
Not defending him but this is not his mistake if Pakistan have more fixtures against B,C D teams and not touring out of asia much.
True, but it's on him if he fails against top attacks in icc events and fills his boots in bilaterals against inferior attacks
 
They are good. But they don't have the will to learn and improve. As a player you need to evolve with time. Even geniuses like Wasim Akram or Sachin Tendulkar or Shane Warne had to do so.

Sachin Tendulkar had to add the slog sweep and paddle sweep to his repetoire to counter Warne in 1998.

Wasim Akram devised the famous leg cutter to outfox batsmen.

Warne added the slider to his armoury.

Here you have young players hyped by media and social media campaigns who think they are already the best.
Thats true. They are comfortable with their existing skillset.
 
When they tour Babar usually fails.

When did Kohli last played versus Zimbabwe? Or a b c d team?

Babar is miles away from Inzy. Let alone be a King.

Asia cup 2023, Pakistan bowled out India for 266 in very helpful conditions. Not 66 or 166 but 266. The pakistani media including this forum hyped Pakistani attack as the best fast bowling attack in the world.

This media hype has gone to the head of the players. They think they are but they aren't what media is hyping them to be.

And this started with one player a very avg player who was hyped by media for 15 years.
I agree with the above. The hype is really devastating for him. However, after watching cricket for the last 22 years, I understand that he is still young and has a good 7-8 years left in his career. He could become anything from an average and overhyped batsman to someone very good. I still believe he is the best ODI batsman Pakistan has ever produced and could become a great Test batsman in the coming years. However, he made a wrong choice early in his career by pursuing captaincy, which was not his strength, and lost some crucial years under the burden of leadership.
Pakistan a best bowling attack is a myth even when we had wasim, waqar and shoaib we got beaten by teams and many great batsmen of that era trashed our bowlers
 
I agree with the above. The hype is really devastating for him. However, after watching cricket for the last 22 years, I understand that he is still young and has a good 7-8 years left in his career. He could become anything from an average and overhyped batsman to someone very good. I still believe he is the best ODI batsman Pakistan has ever produced and could become a great Test batsman in the coming years. However, he made a wrong choice early in his career by pursuing captaincy, which was not his strength, and lost some crucial years under the burden of leadership.
Pakistan a best bowling attack is a myth even when we had wasim, waqar and shoaib we got beaten by teams and many great batsmen of that era trashed our bowlers

Not only him.

It applies to Shaheen Rauf etc as well.
 
Not only him.

It applies to Shaheen Rauf etc as well.
Disagree. Shaheen and Rauf are express fast bowlers, and the career of a fast bowler is often short. When you are a Pakistani fast bowler, you are expected to play all matches—whether Tests, ODIs, or T20s. Without a genuine rotation policy, you will not last long unless you are exceptionally fit, and we all know the fitness levels of our players. I recently saw Shadab and some other cricketers drinking fizzy cold drinks during a practice session at a club cricket match. This shows the kind of knowledge and understanding they have related to the cricketing affairs from which they earn their livelihood.
 
Pakistan's need for comparison for........... ever since I can remember Babar has been compared to Koli, every stat by now some folk might even know how often these guys brake wind together pmsl. Inzi /Sachin
Virat Kohli is original
Babar Azam is original, but Pakistan fans want to prove that he is better than Virat Koli albeit a cheap Chinese copy!

Don't give him the burden of captain, just tell him to show his love for his country on the pitch with bat!
 
So many people are misunderstanding the words United and gelled.

United and gelled is for everything. You improve your skills together, you improve your fitness together, you improve the team morale together, you improve the fielding together.

The goal is to be together. CT 2017 while having elements of Luck, won primarily due to the entire team being United. All 11 players in the semi and finals belived they could win, they shoved their ego's aside and every single one of them punched well > their weight. They all knew what to do and what to achieve and hence their skill set improved drastically as the tournament kept progressing.

It won't happen In this current set up when

A) Fitness is treated like a joke with every player going for food tours.

B) the whole team is selected on the basis of babar, Shadab and rizwan looking good.
 
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Joshila paaji is dropping harsh truth bombs in this thread regarding the mentality of our cricketers. Refreshing to hear.
 
These issues are not fixable. Not until the whole country and it’s system are fixed.

Pakistan cricket will not get talented cricketers anymore as there will be barely anyone left to play this sport.

You can’t inspire a generation when all your national team does is lose every game they play. They win by flukes, they have no skill and they don’t even understand the tactical side of the game.

I am expecting Pakistan to get destroyed by Bangladesh at home aswell in August, such is the level of confidence in the players at the moment.

We should really have the CT taken away from us to get people to understand the gravity of the situation.

Our legacy is getting tarnished by this bunch of no-good jahil cricketers representing a once proud cricketing nation.
Pakistan will thrash Bangladesh in Test Cricket. Rest of your points are genuine issues which Pakistan management and people of Pakistan need to sort out themselves.
 
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