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Despite the disappointments in the Asia Cup, it's not all doom and gloom for Pakistan

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GreenKhan

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The final was very disappointing and the batting has its issues but the reaction of fans and critics alike in some quarters is such that it seems like we got knocked out even before the super 4s!

There are issues with every team and ours is the batting . Whether it’s a change in personnel, mindset or combinations issues need to be worked on but we got to a major final and came across a ruthless SL side with the eye of the tiger .

Compare this 2016, and we had Asia cup with the likes of Afridi, the ever so Mediocre Malik and Hafeez , sab ka laadla akmal etc and we barely won one match .

This team has shown growth , has some unity about them and have shown fight .

1) we nearly defended 148 against India
2) Chases 182 against India
3) A memorable win against Afg which we seemed certain to lose .

It’s not all doom and gloom . Relax people and be positive .
 
Pakistan have definitely improved they just lacking a good middle order batesman
 
pak people are super emotional, most want to throw out the entire team the night after a defeat, its partially the reason why the country is always so unstable but that's a diff topic.

fans will calm down about a week later lol, and by the time wt20 starts they'll be saying pak are favourites, lol. rinse and repeat.

if we talking about positives, i haven't enjoyed watching Pakistan fast bowlers that much since asif and amir in 2010.
 
Agreed 💯% was beginning to think every poster here is out of their mind.. nice to see a post that suggests there’s plenty of sane Pakistani cricket fans out there 👍🏽
 
Don't think we can compare 2016 with 2022 because that would be comparing ODI vs T20 formats.
 
Khushdil, Asif, Iftikhar, Nawaz, Shadab must be backed. These players need to be made to bat the overs 4 plus and beyond
 
You know things are bad when a win against Afghanistan has to be considered memorable.
 
Pakistan fans complaining about their team after reaching the WT20 and Asia Cup finals = first World problems.
 
Team had only one batsman ( Rizwan ) who was scoring . In all they had two , one ( Babar ) remained out of form . Team was carrying 4 passengers named Khushdil, Chacha, Asif and Fakhar. Its a miracle they reached final.
 
Our bowling traditionally has always been good. Throughout the tournament our batting and fielding were awful as usual. Where is the improvement?
 
Technics 1210 said:
Don't think we can compare 2016 with 2022 because that would be comparing ODI vs T20 formats.
Click to expand...

2016 was t20 format held in Bangladesh and we were bundled by India on 84 runs and thrashed by BD in the semi final.

We had likes of Malik, Hafeez, Umar Akmal, Sharjeel , Afridi and M. Sami
 
For me the bigger concern is Babar’s captaincy in crunch moments. That defines your successes and ability to win tournaments and important series
 
Varun said:
I am talking from the perspective of an Indian fan - we have barely managed to get past the group stages at these events.
Click to expand...

And we chose the exact same team for Wt20 and made Bishnoi as standby
 
Agree their is postives from this tourney as well

The fast bowling as whole despite not having shaheen and wasim jr we still did well in this tournament.

Haris rauf has shown such growth and really love how he played, aside from his bowling his ground fielding was good.

Spin bowling was looking good 2, despite not having world class spinners our spinners did a fine job

Babar tactic at sending Nawaz at 4 vs India was brilliant and was the only time we did something creative or out of the box but it paid off, hoping Babar can do this type of thing more in future when needed.

Despite not having middle order and babar having such bad form, we still managed to make the finals, so it was not just babar and bust.

Despite dropping catches and having misfields we still made finals.

All in all their is positives but of course things need to be looked at ideally tweaks need to be made, ideally some changes in middle order and adjusting batting order when needed according to match situation.
 
As a pace bowling fan, i enjoyed watching young NS, rauf, Dahani and hasnain. very young, will only get better.
Do not follow pak cricket or psl in details, but a big under rated +ve of Asia cup was your quick bowlers hitting sixes when least expected. That means they have some batting ability, at least for tonking maximums in T20's . surely that can be tapped into.
some day, these contributions from the tail enders will win matches.
 
nextover666666 said:
Agree their is postives from this tourney as well

The fast bowling as whole despite not having shaheen and wasim jr we still did well in this tournament.

Haris rauf has shown such growth and really love how he played, aside from his bowling his ground fielding was good.

Spin bowling was looking good 2, despite not having world class spinners our spinners did a fine job

Babar tactic at sending Nawaz at 4 vs India was brilliant and was the only time we did something creative or out of the box but it paid off, hoping Babar can do this type of thing more in future when needed.

Despite not having middle order and babar having such bad form, we still managed to make the finals, so it was not just babar and bust.

Despite dropping catches and having misfields we still made finals.

All in all their is positives but of course things need to be looked at ideally tweaks need to be made, ideally some changes in middle order and adjusting batting order when needed according to match situation.
Click to expand...

Sending Shadab at #5 against Afghanistan's spinners was also a masterclass move. Babar was pretty good with his decision-making right until the last match. There was no need to give Iftikhar more than 1 or 2 overs... robbed Nawaz there of economic and potentially wicket-taking overs (he conceded just 3 runs in the 16th over). The batting order could also have been adjusted to conduct the chase better.
 
We are getting into unchartered waters with some real depth in our pacers. We have 4 good fast bowlers and with the likes of Zeeshan coming through, that could make it amongst the top 2 in the World. Our spinners are solid. The batting needs new blood after the WC because its pretty mediocre
 
Completely agree. I really hope they don’t make wholesale changes to the batting order. Almost our entire batting lineup plays pace better than spin with the exception of Shadab. Babar is gonna thrive on Australian pitches with the big boundaries and batting tracks. Only changes I would try is a shuffling of the batting order (Babar at 3) and Haider in for Khushdil.

1.Mohammad Rizwan
2.Fakhar Zaman
3.Babar Azam
4.Haider Ali
5.Iftikhar Ahmed
6.Asif Ali
7.Shadab Khan
8.Mohammad Nawaz
9.Haris Rauf
10.Shaheen Afridi
11.Naseem Shah

Also people complaining about Babar’s captaincy need to relax. Babar’s made a semifinal and a final in his two tournaments as captain and has a fantastic overall record that matches up with any former Pakistan captain. His tactical awareness is definitely a work in progress but there is far more to captaincy than tactics; cohesiveness and command of the dressing room are equally important.

The Australian pitches are gonna suit our team much more than UAE, we just need to keep faith. Inshallah this is gonna be our tournament.
 
At the end of the day, Pakistan made WC semi's last year and were so very close to being in the finals. Made the finals in Asia Cup and had Sri Lanka collapsing and there were two batsmen who changed the game for them.

Pakistan is definitely going in the right direction. Fast bowling is a strong asset for this team, they also have the two very good allrounder spinners. Lower order power is there too and they do have a couple of top T20 batsmen. They are just lacking the middle order to round off the team but I do think pieces are there to make it work - the batting order & approach isn't being utilized correctly.

In all honestly, it's a miracle Pakistan even made it to the finals considering how poorly Babar/Fakhar/Khushdil were. Iftikhar wasn't able to capitalize on his starts either. In the end, Pakistan will never bat like the way England/India does. They have high end shot makers and Pakistan simply doesn't. The way they approach isn't ideal but it works for them but it does need to modified to be more aggressive early on, especially if they are batting first.

It's almost as if the team is collapsing, the players get scared to play the way they should because of the criticism if they get all out at a low score. Probably need to tune out the outside noise and just understand that T20 is a high risk, high reward game.
 
shady said:
Completely agree. I really hope they don’t make wholesale changes to the batting order. Almost our entire batting lineup plays pace better than spin with the exception of Shadab. Babar is gonna thrive on Australian pitches with the big boundaries and batting tracks. Only changes I would try is a shuffling of the batting order (Babar at 3) and Haider in for Khushdil.

1.Mohammad Rizwan
2.Fakhar Zaman
3.Babar Azam
4.Haider Ali
5.Iftikhar Ahmed
6.Asif Ali
7.Shadab Khan
8.Mohammad Nawaz
9.Haris Rauf
10.Shaheen Afridi
11.Naseem Shah

Also people complaining about Babar’s captaincy need to relax. Babar’s made a semifinal and a final in his two tournaments as captain and has a fantastic overall record that matches up with any former Pakistan captain. His tactical awareness is definitely a work in progress but there is far more to captaincy than tactics; cohesiveness and command of the dressing room are equally important.

The Australian pitches are gonna suit our team much more than UAE, we just need to keep faith. Inshallah this is gonna be our tournament.
Click to expand...

What if Babar doesn't want Fakhar to open?
 
After a nearly succesful Asia Cup campaign where they reached the final but lost twice, including in the final, to Sri Lanka, won one and lost one to India, and nearly stumbled against Afghanistan the key issues are
1 slow scoring in a pp during a chase
2 weak middle order

These 2 weakness are easily solvable.
Just proper alternatives need to be found.
 
Khusdil, Asif are going to be scapegoated for the selfishness of Rizwan, Babar and Fakhar.
 
The worrying trend is we are failing in crunch situations during semis and finals. Dropped catches, timid approach and laid back captaincy
 
It’s disappointing to see how many supporters see the victories at face value. If you dig a little bit deeper you can see that not much has changed. The 2 victories against Afghanistan (Naseems sixes) and India (Asif Ali being dropped) were laced with freak occurrences.

As much as I love Rizwans energy..he makes the most mundane of chases seem difficult. Teams have worked out that he has a very limited front foot game and will continue to pitch the ball full outside off. He literally plays from the crease..no big stride. Hence always seems late on the stroke.

Babar is tactically inept. It showed in the semi-final last year and the final. Literally no game awareness. The game plan seems set in concrete. No improvisation. The less said about Saqlain the better. Nothing but sound bites. Fakhar sadly is on the way out. The middle order again is non existent. Chacha ifti is a poor man’s misbah..block block, occasional six.

But it’s not all doom and gloom. The emergence of Nawaz as a genuine hitter and Shadab finding his mojo with the ball again.

Naseem shah along with Dahani showed promise. Although the former looks very injury prone. Hasnain looked quick and will hopefully continue to develop. Rauf still has the tendency to produce one poor ball an over..but overall has shown improvement.

Plenty to ponder going forward.
 
hafizexpress said:
Sending Shadab at #5 against Afghanistan's spinners was also a masterclass move. Babar was pretty good with his decision-making right until the last match. There was no need to give Iftikhar more than 1 or 2 overs... robbed Nawaz there of economic and potentially wicket-taking overs (he conceded just 3 runs in the 16th over). The batting order could also have been adjusted to conduct the chase better.
Click to expand...

your spot on forgot to mention about shadab being sent up as well.
Agree Iftikhar did bowl well, but just needed to bowl 2 overs maximum nothing more than that.
 
shamaan said:
What if Babar doesn't want Fakhar to open?
Click to expand...


Well, it’s a hope not a prediction. But even if it’s Babar and Rizwan opening again in Australia, I don’t think they’ll be as slow as they were in Dubai. Babar especially is a completely different player when the ball comes onto the bat like in Australia.
 
The only worry is that Pakistan doesn't seem to have a pool of middle order players. 40+ Malik is still in contention shows lack of options.
 
Pakistan made it to the finals without their # 1 and # 3 firing AT ALL in the whole tournament

I didn't expect middle order to perform anyway so thats a given

However, Babar came in as world's number 1 batter and he failed. That was the main reason
 
That's the problem with Pakistan cricket, not only selectors, captain and coaches are soft but a big number of cricket followers are also soft. After beaten twice by an inexperienced SL team , they are contended with " all is not doom and gloom with Pakistan cricket".

Appreciate the team when they play well but team deserves to be criticized in tough way when they lose with ridiculous performance, don't encourage them . Don't settle for minnow like performance. I hate statement like " we are doing something right",
 
shamaan said:
Can you please elaborate how selfishness of Babar and Rizwan has impacted Khushdil.
Click to expand...

You can't bat at a SR of 80-100 in a T20 game for 15-16 overs and leave the likes of Khusdil, Asif, Nawaz, Shadab with 50-60 required of 4 overs against quality bowling attacks, against long boundaries and on pitches where it is not easy to tee off from ball one.
 
GreenKhan said:
The final was very disappointing and the batting has its issues but the reaction of fans and critics alike in some quarters is such that it seems like we got knocked out even before the super 4s!

There are issues with every team and ours is the batting . Whether it’s a change in personnel, mindset or combinations issues need to be worked on but we got to a major final and came across a ruthless SL side with the eye of the tiger .

Compare this 2016, and we had Asia cup with the likes of Afridi, the ever so Mediocre Malik and Hafeez , sab ka laadla akmal etc and we barely won one match .

This team has shown growth , has some unity about them and have shown fight .

1) we nearly defended 148 against India
2) Chases 182 against India
3) A memorable win against Afg which we seemed certain to lose .

It’s not all doom and gloom . Relax people and be positive .
Click to expand...

Disagree. Makes no sense

1) That was ODI format and results would have been worse if 2022 was an ODI format too.

2) Pak got to 147 due to dahani cameo. Or would have been one sided.. 120 chase

3) Chase vs 182 was lost too had it not been a dolly dropped by arsh . its not dropped 9 out of 10 times and a fluke by nawaz

4) Afg was not memorable at all it was horrible chase of 129 ... and pak only won due to full tosses by Afg at end. one slow ball and we had lost it

WE LOST TWICE one sided games vs SL.

It was a bad asia cup and if squad doesnt change T20 WC is gonna be even worse.
 
Savak said:
You can't bat at a SR of 80-100 in a T20 game for 15-16 overs and leave the likes of Khusdil, Asif, Nawaz, Shadab with 50-60 required of 4 overs against quality bowling attacks, against long boundaries and on pitches where it is not easy to tee off from ball one.
Click to expand...

Even if it was 30 required off 4 overs. UdasDiL and Asif inspire zero confidence
 
Pakistan were one umpire’s call away from winning the title by 8 wickets.
Game of fine margins. The weaknesses got exposed tho and its upto them to work on it and improve.
 
It was an encouraging performance on the whole. A final isn’t a disaster. Fans do get too emotional.

Two very good bowling allrounders in Nawaz and Shadab, the no. 1 and 2 batsmen in Babar and Rizwan, and a world class fast bowler in Shaheen.

Tell me fans wouldn’t taken this a few years ago. Especially considering how low the talent standard in PSL felt, which is also why these five stand out in PSL above the rest by such a big margin.

We just need to improve our middle order, and really more we need to find a good no.3. Most teams are entirely reliant on their top 3, they face similar struggles with middle/lower order as it’s the top 3 that makes up the lion share of the runs.
 
To be really frank, Pakistan had a very poor tournament with the bat. Yes they batted well against HK and chased 180 against India but when you look on the whole the batting came off as underwhelming. If you are a Pakistan fan you should be really worried. Pakistan were bowled out in T20 format 3 times in 6 games and were almost bowled out one other time as well against Afghanistan. I see that as a huge issue and I don't know how that can be good when your batting fails 4 times out of 6 and that too on a surface where the Pakistan batters have had lots of experience.
 
Last edited:
It is never doom and gloom for Pakistani supporters, they have become so immune to mediocrity and failure that they are capable of finding positives out of anything.

Pakistani fans are comfortably the most delusional fans in the world. It is said that when a team becomes mediocre, the fans also become mediocre. It certainly applies to Pakistan fans.

Pakistani fans have learned to accept the bare minimum from their cricket team and they have lowered the bar for success to the point where PCB and the players are in their comfort-zone.

There is not enough pressure on them to deliver and be a high-achieving team.

The mentality of the fans can be summed up by the fact that they are still celebrating the win over India, conveniently forgetting that there were two matches against India and it ended 1-1.

Granted that India is miles better than Pakistan and 1-1 is a lot better than losing 2-0, but I have never seen a set of fans do so much trash-talking and claim bragging rights after a 1-1 scoreline.

Pakistan is an average team and I think it is what the average fans deserve. They thrive in this mediocrity.
 
Personally for me it is doom and gloom.
This is not because of any lack of talent.
We have the players who can play top level cricket, they have the playing ability to be the very best in all formats.

So why the doom and gloom? Because they collectively lack the one thing that can't be taught.
Lack of match intelligence which leads to a lack of game management, whether it's with bat or when they're fielding.

This is why you see a brilliant performance, or small run of brilliant wins followed by losing games we're expected to win.

Pundits call it inconsistency but really it's down to stupidness
 
shady said:
Well, it’s a hope not a prediction. But even if it’s Babar and Rizwan opening again in Australia, I don’t think they’ll be as slow as they were in Dubai. Babar especially is a completely different player when the ball comes onto the bat like in Australia.
Click to expand...

Yes i agree but I would like to see Babar or Rizwan move down to 3
 
Savak said:
You can't bat at a SR of 80-100 in a T20 game for 15-16 overs and leave the likes of Khusdil, Asif, Nawaz, Shadab with 50-60 required of 4 overs against quality bowling attacks, against long boundaries and on pitches where it is not easy to tee off from ball one.
Click to expand...

But the thing is Khushdil overall stats in t20s are garbage.
 
Mamoon said:
It is never doom and gloom for Pakistani supporters, they have become so immune to mediocrity and failure that they are capable of finding positives out of anything.

Pakistani fans are comfortably the most delusional fans in the world. It is said that when a team becomes mediocre, the fans also become mediocre. It certainly applies to Pakistan fans.

Pakistani fans have learned to accept the bare minimum from their cricket team and they have lowered the bar for success to the point where PCB and the players are in their comfort-zone.

There is not enough pressure on them to deliver and be a high-achieving team.

The mentality of the fans can be summed up by the fact that they are still celebrating the win over India, conveniently forgetting that there were two matches against India and it ended 1-1.

Granted that India is miles better than Pakistan and 1-1 is a lot better than losing 2-0, but I have never seen a set of fans do so much trash-talking and claim bragging rights after a 1-1 scoreline.

Pakistan is an average team and I think it is what the average fans deserve. They thrive in this mediocrity.
Click to expand...


Some of us just enjoy rooting for our favourite team. Not everyone watches sports with the same weird expectations that you do. You're free to be miserable every time you watch PCT but deriding others for enjoying themselves is really lame.
 
Analysis of the games
First game against India... lost in a close encounter.
Against HK..routed them
Against India in Super 4 , let India make 181 but credit to Pakistan they chased them. But an important point to note is that Singh dropped a catch in 18th over of a key player( I dont remember...was it Asif or Khusdil) If the catch was taken the game would have been lot more closer.
Against Afghanistan, sneaked in a win, somehow again . Its the 4th sneak in win against Afg since Asia cup 2018.
Against SL lost 2 consecutive games.
Not bad one would say as reaching final of a multination tournament is a feat worth applauding and this despite Babar beingout of form
 
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