Did averaging under 50 overseas in Tests count against the great batsmen?

[Harsh Thakor]

Brian Lara,Javed Miandad,Inzamam Ul Haq ,Hashim Amla and Ricky Ponting are 5 of the greatest batsmen of all time.Lara is probably in the top 3 while Ponting is amongst the top-7-8 if not in the top 5.Few batsmen were ever better match-winners or players of genuine quick bowling as Ricky while no batsmen so single-handedly carried the mantle of a weak team's batting on his shoulders or registered mamoth scores as Lara. .Inzamam was the best match-winner of his day .Javed was the best batsmen of his era in a crisis .In modern times Hashim was the ultimate epitome of consistency and been the fulcrum of the erstwhile champion test team that was South Africa.Still it is fascinating that all 5 batsmen average under 50 in tests away.Javed averaged 16 more at home,Lara and Ponting 11 less away,Inzy 8 less away and Amla 4 more at home.Although barely scraping 50 away Gary Sobers averaged around 66 at home.

One side of the coin is that for West Indies and Australian batsmen home conditions are more or as testing as away with the pitches posessing great pace and bounce.It is harder to bat on fast Perth track than to bat at Georgetown or Trinidad while it is a greater test to survive in Barbados or Kingston than at Lords or Oval.Similarly for South African batsmen often home pitches are more difficult to negotiate with their treacherous conditions.However still for an Australian,Kiwi,South African,English or West Indian batsmen it is a great test and challenge to succeed on turning track sin the sub-continent.Sub -continent tarcsk are often described as pancakes which Javed and Inzmam relished.

Morally I complement Walter Hammond.Ken Barrington, Viv Richards,Sunil Gavaskar,Sachin Tendulkar,Rahul Dravid , Steve Waugh and Alan Border for averaging over 50 and more away than at home.Such batsmen were equally in the seaming English conditions,on the bouncy Australian or Carribean tracks and negotiating the turning sub-continent wickets.Alan Border and Viv Richards are the best examples ,in my book.Steve Waugh and Alan Border averaged around 11 more runs away than at home.Although he played some classical knocks away Lara was often inconsistent in Australia and South Africa or even England.Ponting was not at his best on the sub-continent and averaged considerably less in England.It is fascinating that even Mohinder Amarnath averages over 50 in tests away,that too against great bowling.Gary Sobers averaged 66 at home, 16 runs more than his away average.The oustanding domination of Viv Richards in Australia,Pakistan,India and England nad the solidity of Waugh and Border on West indies,English and sub-continent tracks were trademarks of genuinely great batsmen.

Greg Chappell has parallel averages away and home .Neverthless add Kerry Packer world series stats and Greg would average over 53 away.No batsmen statistically performed better against the great Carribean pace battery in West Indies as Greg did in 1979 when scoring 621 runs at an average of 69,including 3 centuries.It just could be true that in term sof tackling pure pace playing at home is a greater test for Australian batsmen.However away wickets may posesse uneven bounce or could deteriorate quicker and the ball may seam around more like in England or turn considerably more like in India.


Arguable Lara is 2nd only to Bradman as a test batsmen but one has to throw light on the fact that his home record is considerably better just like Sir Garfield Sobers.More of Lara's great series have been at home and similar is the case with Ponting or Sobers.

Considering the opposition bowling attacks of his era arguably Alan Border stands on top if you compare overseas-home performance.Adding kerry packers stats. would elevate Viv Richards way average from 50.5 to around 52.5 as he had a phenomenal average of 86.2 in 1977 in packer supertests.I think the fast bouncy tracks of Australia suited Viv's style more than the Carribean pitches.It is also a tribute to Viv that his best series batting came on the seaming English tracks in 1976.Considering the great bowling he faced and pressure he encountered Gavaskar could morally draw level with Viv or Border.Arguably missing Kerry Packer cricket and playing aginst a deplete Australian attack down under in 1977-78 marginally went against him and failing on the 1983 tour of the Carribean.Steve Waugh's best bating came in England and then the Carribean.Rahul Dravid and Sachin Tendulkar no doubt brilliant,had the advantage of playing against weaker attacks oversesa.Neverthless Dravid championed the cause like few greats in Australia in 2003-04 ,in England in 2002 and 2011 and in Pakistan in 2004.Tendulkar was simply an epitome of consistency coming back like a Muhammad Ali in Australia in 2007-08 to ressurect his peak form.Few overseas batsmen ever played better in South Africa as he did in 2011 or earlier in 1997.





In this light I would complement Younis Khan who unlike Javed,Inzmamam,Zaheer Abbas or Hanif averages over 50 away from home .Younis is the only pakistani batsmen to average more than 50 away but hid did not face the calibre of bowling Javed or Inazmam did.

BRIAN LARA-averages around 11 runs less at home
[table= class:grid][tr][td]H/A[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO [/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]0[/td][td]4s[/td][td]6s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home[/td][td]65[/td][td]111[/td][td]5[/td][td]6217[/td][td]400*[/td][td]58.65[/td][td]10302[/td][td]60.34[/td][td]17[/td][td]26[/td][td]8[/td][td]785[/td][td]55[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away[/td][td]66[/td][td]121[/td][td]1[/td][td]5736[/td][td]277[/td][td]47.80[/td][td]9451[/td][td]60.69[/td][td]17[/td][td]22[/td][td]9[/td][td]774[/td][td]33[/td][/tr][/table]


RICKY PONTING-averages around 11 more at home than away
[table= class:grid][tr][td]H/A[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO [/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]0[/td][td]4s[/td][td]6s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home[/td][td]92[/td][td]154[/td][td]21[/td][td]7578[/td][td]257[/td][td]56.97[/td][td]12630[/td][td]60[/td][td]23[/td][td]38[/td][td]9[/td][td]839[/td][td]26[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away[/td][td]71[/td][td]125[/td][td]8[/td][td]5360[/td][td]206[/td][td]45.81[/td][td]9464[/td][td]56.63[/td][td]16[/td][td]23[/td][td]7[/td][td]617[/td][td]43[/td][/tr][/table]


INZAMAM UL HAQ-averages 8 runs more at home than away
[table= class:grid][tr][td]H/A[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO [/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]0[/td][td]4s[/td][td]6s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home[/td][td]49[/td][td]79[/td][td]10[/td][td]3709[/td][td]329[/td][td]53.75[/td][td]6974[/td][td]53.18[/td][td]11[/td][td]20[/td][td]9[/td][td]440[/td][td]29[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away[/td][td]68[/td][td]116[/td][td]11[/td][td]4821[/td][td]184[/td][td]45.91[/td][td]8798[/td][td]54.79[/td][td]13[/td][td]26[/td][td]6[/td][td]631[/td][td]15[/td][/tr][/table]

JAVED MIANDAD -averages 16 less away

[table= class:grid][tr][td]H/A[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO [/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home[/td][td]60[/td][td]86[/td][td]13[/td][td]4481[/td][td]280*[/td][td]61.38[/td][td]14[/td][td]17[/td][td]0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away[/td][td]64[/td][td]103[/td][td]8[/td][td]4351[/td][td]271[/td][td]45.8[/td][td]9[/td][td]26[/td][td]6[/td][/tr][/table]


HASHIM AMLA

averages around 4 less away .

[table= class:grid][tr][td]H/A[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO [/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]0[/td][td]4s[/td][td]6s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home[/td][td]54[/td][td]89[/td][td]5[/td][td]4174[/td][td]208[/td][td]49.69[/td][td]8037[/td][td]51.93[/td][td]14[/td][td]20[/td][td]6[/td][td]552[/td][td]4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away[/td][td]43[/td][td]74[/td][td]7[/td][td]3233[/td][td]311*[/td][td]48.25[/td][td]6736[/td][td]47.99[/td][td]10[/td][td]9[/td][td]4[/td][td]376[/td][td]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]neutral[/td][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][td]1[/td][td]392[/td][td]118*[/td][td]78.4[/td][td]730[/td][td]53.69[/td][td]2[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]38[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][/table]


Best overseas Test batsmen, from 1960 onwards (Qual: 3000 runs)
[table= class:grid][tr][td]Player[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KF Barrington (ENG)[/td][td]36[/td][td]58[/td][td]8[/td][td]3459[/td][td]172[/td][td]69.18[/td][td]14[/td][td]14[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AR Border (AUS)[/td][td]70[/td][td]120[/td][td]24[/td][td]5431[/td][td]200*[/td][td]56.57[/td][td]14[/td][td]28[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Waugh (AUS)[/td][td]76[/td][td]116[/td][td]25[/td][td]5083[/td][td]200[/td][td]55.85[/td][td]16[/td][td]20[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA)[/td][td]106[/td][td]176[/td][td]17[/td][td]8705[/td][td]248*[/td][td]54.74[/td][td]29[/td][td]36[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GC Smith (ICC/SA)[/td][td]52[/td][td]96[/td][td]6[/td][td]4854[/td][td]277[/td][td]53.93[/td][td]15[/td][td]19[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Kallis (ICC/SA)[/td][td]74[/td][td]130[/td][td]20[/td][td]5919[/td][td]189*[/td][td]53.8[/td][td]20[/td][td]23[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KC Sangakkara (SL)[/td][td]53[/td][td]97[/td][td]5[/td][td]4888[/td][td]319[/td][td]53.13[/td][td]14[/td][td]23[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Dravid (ICC/INDIA)[/td][td]94[/td][td]166[/td][td]21[/td][td]7690[/td][td]270[/td][td]53.03[/td][td]21[/td][td]36[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA)[/td][td]60[/td][td]106[/td][td]9[/td][td]5055[/td][td]221[/td][td]52.11[/td][td]18[/td][td]22[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Amarnath (INDIA)[/td][td]37[/td][td]63[/td][td]5[/td][td]3008[/td][td]138[/td][td]51.86[/td][td]9[/td][td]17[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AB de Villiers (SA)[/td][td]44[/td][td]76[/td][td]9[/td][td]3396[/td][td]217*[/td][td]50.68[/td][td]7[/td][td]17[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI)[/td][td]73[/td][td]115[/td][td]8[/td][td]5404[/td][td]291[/td][td]50.5[/td][td]13[/td][td]31[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Younis Khan (PAK)[/td][td]68[/td][td]121[/td][td]12[/td][td]5486[/td][td]267[/td][td]50.33[/td][td]16[/td][td]18[/td][/tr][/table]


YOUNIS KHAN

averages morally around 6-7 runs more at home if you include run son neutral venues.Only Pakistani batsmen to average more than 50 away but hid did not face the calibre of bowling Javed or Inazmam did.

[table= class:grid][tr][td]H/A[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO [/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]0[/td][td]4s[/td][td]6s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home[/td][td]19[/td][td]33[/td][td]1[/td][td]1898[/td][td]313[/td][td]59.31[/td][td]3440[/td][td]55.17[/td][td]7[/td][td]5[/td][td]2[/td][td]225[/td][td]10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away[/td][td]68[/td][td]121[/td][td]12[/td][td]5486[/td][td]267[/td][td]50.33[/td][td]10604[/td][td]51.73[/td][td]16[/td][td]18[/td][td]12[/td][td]618[/td][td]35[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]neutral[/td][td]28[/td][td]53[/td][td]6[/td][td]2593[/td][td]213[/td][td]55.17[/td][td]4997[/td][td]51.89[/td][td]11[/td][td]9[/td][td]4[/td][td]229[/td][td]24[/td][/tr][/table]



GARY SOBERS.just scraped over 50 away and averaged 16 more run sat home ,that too averaging over 90 in India.Adding scores for rest of the world in 1970 and 1072 it would barely touch 50 away.
[table= class:grid][tr][td]H/A[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO [/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home[/td][td]44[/td][td]75[/td][td]14[/td][td]4075[/td][td]365*[/td][td]66.8[/td][td]14[/td][td]12[/td][td]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away[/td][td]49[/td][td]85[/td][td]7[/td][td]3957[/td][td]198[/td][td]50.73[/td][td]12[/td][td]18[/td][td]6[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[Big Mac]

It only ever harms Asian batsmen because we still have the old colonial inferiority complex where we tear down our own players if they don't score in England/Australia and don't shine as great a light on the failures of their batsmen in Asian conditions even though they play far more regularly in Asia than we do in England or Australia.

It's something that people are slowly becoming aware of but it's still a huge problem. You see the same thing when it comes to commentary, the Channel 9 crew are famous for chatting complete nonsense but if they make a comment on the air then you see PPers hold it up as gospel but if an Indian or Bangladeshi commentator had said the same comment they would get criticised for being clueless.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

It only ever harms Asian batsmen because we still have the old colonial inferiority complex where we tear down our own players if they don't score in England/Australia and don't shine as great a light on the failures of their batsmen in Asian conditions even though they play far more regularly in Asia than we do in England or Australia.

It's something that people are slowly becoming aware of but it's still a huge problem. You see the same thing when it comes to commentary, the Channel 9 crew are famous for chatting complete nonsense but if they make a comment on the air then you see PPers hold it up as gospel but if an Indian or Bangladeshi commentator had said the same comment they would get criticised for being clueless.

I am discussing Lara,Ponting,Sobers more than anything and praising Border,Waugh,Gavaskar and Younis.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Inzamam was the best match-winner of his day

Please explain how you came to this conclusion and also explain how he achieved this vs Aus & SA.


Thanks...

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Please explain how you came to this conclusion and also explain how he achieved this vs Aus & SA.


Thanks...

Inzy scored the most number of match-wining centuries and the highest average of 78 by any batsmen of his time in games won.Sadly not at his best against Aus.or S.Africa.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Sadly not at his best against Aus.or S.Africa.

There is the problem, so who were these teams he scored those match winning innings against ?

Inzi was a good batsmen but he is not in the company of greats not with poor performances vs the best sides of his era...

 

[Kakar]

There is the problem, so who were these teams he scored those match winning innings against ?

Inzi was a good batsmen but he is not in the company of greats not with poor performances vs the best sides of his era...

And how many match winning innings did Lara, Tendulkar and Dravid play in those places? How many did Ponting play in India?

 

[Buffet]

And how many match winning innings did Lara, Tendulkar and Dravid play in those places? How many did Ponting play in India?

Point was about against two best teams of that time and not about venues. Inzzy went missing against those teams even in Pakistan so venues had nothing to do with it. Lara, SRT, Ponting, Dravid etc didn't go missing against best teams everywhere. Two different situations.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Point was about against two best teams of that time and not about venues. Inzzy went missing against those teams even in Pakistan so venues had nothing to do with it. Lara, SRT, Ponting, Dravid etc didn't go missing against best teams everywhere. Two different situations.

Thank you.

 

[Bilal7]

Amla averages 50+ away. Those neutral matches took place in the UAE against Pakistan. His away average rises further when you take out numbers against the minnow nations.

Truly a fantastic batsman. Great record and great performances everywhere.

 

[Bilal7]

Point was about against two best teams of that time and not about venues. Inzzy went missing against those teams even in Pakistan so venues had nothing to do with it. Lara, SRT, Ponting, Dravid etc didn't go missing against best teams everywhere. Two different situations.

Add Younis Khan to that list.

 

[soso_killer]

Amla averages less than 50 away?
Enlighten me...

 

[Abdullah719]

I have made a few changes to OP - replaced stats with tables for readability and updated overseas batsmen stat.

[MENTION=132062]Harsh Thakor[/MENTION] - I think you're confusing Amla's average with his SR. His home average is only 1.5 higher than away average and if you add the UAE numbers to the away stat then he's averaging 50.34 away in comparison to 49.69 at home.

 

[Bilal7]

I have made a few changes to OP - replaced stats with tables for readability and updated overseas batsmen stat.

[MENTION=132062]Harsh Thakor[/MENTION] - I think you're confusing Amla's average with his SR. His home average is only 1.5 higher than away average and if you add the UAE numbers to the away stat then he's averaging 50.34 away in comparison to 49.69 at home.

Yeah, I was confused too because I had always known Amla averages 50+ away.