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Do Pakistan have the best lower order in the Champions Trophy?

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SarfiBabarHaris

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Imo Imad , Shady , Fahim , Hasan and Amir are good enough.

Imad: Proper batsman. Plays for Islamabad on difficult conditions in Diamond ground and have seen him many times rescuing his team. Capable of averaging ~35-40 in test cricket too.

Shady: Once again a proper batsman. Rate his batting highly along with bowling. Glimpses shown in PSL and his 1st test innings. He is just inexperienced. Will come good.

Fahim: Lower order hitter who can strike the ball from the word go. Should groom him like what India is doing with Pandya.

Hasan: Can hit a few and support likes of Fahim to score 30 off 3 overs. Couldn't deliver in 2 psl knockout matches but back him to become better with time.

Amir: Better than Hasan at defense and support likes of Imad etc when the chips are down for a big partnership.


If we go with these 5 then I rate our lower order as the best in CT. Yes even better than the much celebrated England lower order of Moeen, Woakes, Rashid, Plunkett and Wood.
 
Our top order especially openers are bakwas playing at SR of 70-75 in modern era and deserve criticism but feel lower order needs our backing.
 
Offcourse. As an Indian fan I am shivering at ths prospect of facing them on 4th of june.Pakistani lower order is miles ahead of any in this tourney.
 
I'd say England but no doubt our lower order is a massive improvement on years past. At the last WC our tail began with Afridi at 7.
 
No.

Calm down and no need to get super excited over a warm up match.
 
Not really,the tail can wag a bit,thats all.However this is probably the best tail for Pakistan in the last 5 years.
 
It was a warm up match against Bangladesh. It's funny how us Pakistani fans jump to to conclusions over one match. Let's see what happens against Australia
 
The only way you can even ask this question is if we have decided that England's depth is so good that they don't even have a lower order.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Imo Imad , Shady , Fahim , Hasan and Amir are good enough.

Imad: Proper batsman. Plays for Islamabad on difficult conditions in Diamond ground and have seen him many times rescuing his team. Capable of averaging ~35-40 in test cricket too.

Shady: Once again a proper batsman. Rate his batting highly along with bowling. Glimpses shown in PSL and his 1st test innings. He is just inexperienced. Will come good.

Fahim: Lower order hitter who can strike the ball from the word go. Should groom him like what India is doing with Pandya.

Hasan: Can hit a few and support likes of Fahim to score 30 off 3 overs. Couldn't deliver in 2 psl knockout matches but back him to become better with time.

Amir: Better than Hasan at defense and support likes of Imad etc when the chips are down for a big partnership.


If we go with these 5 then I rate our lower order as the best in CT. Yes even better than the much celebrated England lower order of Moeen, Woakes, Rashid, Plunkett and Wood.
Click to expand...

Lol.

Imad has a strike rate of less than 100 which is not acceptable for a lower order striker.

Shady and Fahim have not scored any runs in international cricket. Fahim as a relative poor List A record.

Hasan and Amir - no better than Waqar and Mushy with the bat.
 
cricketInsight said:
Lol.

Imad has a strike rate of less than 100 which is not acceptable for a lower order striker.

Shady and Fahim have not scored any runs in international cricket. Fahim as a relative poor List A record.

Hasan and Amir - no better than Waqar and Mushy with the bat.
Click to expand...

hehe Imad has a SR of 100.

Man to man Eng vs Pak:

Imad/Ali: Imad with avg of 42 and SR of 100. Ali with avg 28 and SR 103.
Shady/Woakes: Woakesis better
Fahim/Rashid: Fahim is better
Hasan/Plunkett: Plunkett is better
Amir/Wood: Amir is better

So 3-2. Pak wins :P

But yeah thats only if we play Fahim over Wahab/Junaid which I hope so. Otherwise Eng lower order is better.
 
I am not talking about top 6. We all know that English top 6 of Hales, Roy, Buttler, Morgan, Root and Stokes is much better than our top 6. So overall their batting is much stronger than us. But lower order we do have a case.
 
England have strongest lower order.

If you do not have strong top order who can play aggressively , then lower order cannot be used.
 
No logical reason to blv this. They could be useful, but that's more a hope than a forecast
 
Justcrazy said:
If you do not have strong top order who can play aggressively , then lower order cannot be used.
Click to expand...

SarfiBabarHaris said:
Unfortunately this for Pakistan.

Our top 6 is weak which leads too much to ask for the lower order.
Click to expand...

Just give a decent top order like Aus and see what Pak lower order is capable of. I am not even asking for an Eng like top order.

Our lower order is underrated but I understand where people are coming from.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
hehe Imad has a SR of 100.
Click to expand...

Which is extremely poor for a lower order batsman/hitter.

Your top order is supposed to have 90-100 strike rate. Anything at 5 or below should have a strike rate of AT LEAST 120-130.
 
Hawkeye said:
Which is extremely poor for a lower order batsman/hitter.

Your top order is supposed to have 90-100 strike rate.
Click to expand...

Agree but the reason for that is weak top 6. Imad is capable of playing 70 off 50 balls innings. He takes time to settle and then whack. If you need quick runs from the word go for example in the last 5 overs then Fahim is the man. Players like Moeen, Pandya, Moris etc get a solid base from top order at good RR.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Agree but the reason for that is weak top 6. Imad is capable of playing 70 off 50 balls innings. He takes time to settle and then whack. If you need quick runs from the word go for example in the last 5 overs then Fahim is the man. Players like Moeen, Pandya, Moris etc get a solid base from top order at good RR.
Click to expand...

He cannot, and you're too optimistic.

Let the matches start, you'll get to know. Top 6 is weak, so is the lower order.
 
I laughed when I saw the thread title but I will go about it a politically correct way.

No - we absolutely do not have the best lower order. In fact, quite possibly the worst.


best to worst in order 6 7 8 9 batsman


1)ENGLAND - BUTTLER, ALI, WOAKES, PLUNKETT

analysis: England have the deepest lineup of any team. even at #10 adil Rashid or david willey can strike a few. the dangerous hitting actually starts at #5 with ben stokes, who usually ends up being around overs 35 to 40 when the fun starts. England set themselves up well thanks to reliable batting from hales, morgan, etc. with stokes buttler woakes and plunkett there is massive hitting all over the place. Now with moeen ali having learned to strike a ball, and having gotten fitter and stronger, it is clear even the once weak link is now a dangerous batsman. England bat strong and deep and hit the ball hard!

2) SOUTH AFRICA - BEHARDIEN, MILLLER, MORRIS, PRETORIOUS

analysis: miller and morris are 2 of the worlds most dangerous strikers. combine that with behardien's reliability and pretorious's big hitting and south Africa have a very dangerous lower order.

3) SRI LANKA - GUNARATNE, THISARA PERERA, PRASANNA, KULASEKARA

analysis: as unsettled and new as sri lanka's team may be on paper, the majority of the uncertainty is in the top order. the bottom order is very dangerous. all four of these guys can take a match away from any bowling attack. extremely dangerous and underrated.


4) INDIA - DHONI, PANDYA, JADEJA, ASHWIN

analysis: 3 dangerous guys, and a very reliable #9, albeit maybe not a very big hitter in ashwin.

5) NEW ZEALAND - NEESHAM, MUNRO, SANTNER, MILNE

analysis: like sri lanka, new Zealand has shuffled a bit and there are questions in the top and middle order. the bottom order, however, is very dangerous. these guys can all clear the boundary.



6) AUSTRALIA - HENRIQUES, WADE, STOINIS, CUMMINS

analysis: without Faulkner and marsh or Maxwell as part of the lower order, it doesn't seem quite as dangerous as they were a year ago, a time where Australia may have been #1 in the lower order dangerous striking ability department. with the current squad it is unclear based on one practice match who the 6 7 8 and 9 will in fact be. regardless, all these guys are capable of clearing the boundary and all are reliable, with the exception of cummins. However, Cummins is still a very capable and dangerous slogger, and can go toe to toe with almost any other #9.

7) BANGLADESH - SHAKIB AL HASAN, MAHMADULLAH, NASIR HUSSAIN, MORTAZA

analysis: almost unfair to place them at 7 with some serious firepower between those 4.

8) PAKISTAN - IMAD, SHADAB, FAHIM, HASSAN

analysis : imad and shadab are good strokeplayers, but not the prototypical lower order strikers you need to finish a match. nor are they the type who will score 60 off 30 to save a match, Hassan ali has hardly done anything at the international level and fahim is still an unknown. these four are totally unproven and hardly dangerous on paper to any quality death bowling attack.





as you can see Pakistan do not have multiple big hitters like these other teams, nor has anyone proven themselves at all. they are dead last.
 
The top order comprising of Azhar, Shehzad and Hafeez won't even leave any balls for the lower order to have any impact.
 
IM NOT YOU said:
I laughed when I saw the thread title but I will go about it a politically correct way.

No - we absolutely do not have the best lower order. In fact, quite possibly the worst.


best to worst in order 6 7 8 9 batsman


1)ENGLAND - BUTTLER, ALI, WOAKES, PLUNKETT

analysis: England have the deepest lineup of any team. even at #10 adil Rashid or david willey can strike a few. the dangerous hitting actually starts at #5 with ben stokes, who usually ends up being around overs 35 to 40 when the fun starts. England set themselves up well thanks to reliable batting from hales, morgan, etc. with stokes buttler woakes and plunkett there is massive hitting all over the place. Now with moeen ali having learned to strike a ball, and having gotten fitter and stronger, it is clear even the once weak link is now a dangerous batsman. England bat strong and deep and hit the ball hard!

2) SOUTH AFRICA - BEHARDIEN, MILLLER, MORRIS, PRETORIOUS

analysis: miller and morris are 2 of the worlds most dangerous strikers. combine that with behardien's reliability and pretorious's big hitting and south Africa have a very dangerous lower order.

3) SRI LANKA - GUNARATNE, THISARA PERERA, PRASANNA, KULASEKARA

analysis: as unsettled and new as sri lanka's team may be on paper, the majority of the uncertainty is in the top order. the bottom order is very dangerous. all four of these guys can take a match away from any bowling attack. extremely dangerous and underrated.


4) INDIA - DHONI, PANDYA, JADEJA, ASHWIN

analysis: 3 dangerous guys, and a very reliable #9, albeit maybe not a very big hitter in ashwin.

5) NEW ZEALAND - NEESHAM, MUNRO, SANTNER, MILNE

analysis: like sri lanka, new Zealand has shuffled a bit and there are questions in the top and middle order. the bottom order, however, is very dangerous. these guys can all clear the boundary.



6) AUSTRALIA - HENRIQUES, WADE, STOINIS, CUMMINS

analysis: without Faulkner and marsh or Maxwell as part of the lower order, it doesn't seem quite as dangerous as they were a year ago, a time where Australia may have been #1 in the lower order dangerous striking ability department. with the current squad it is unclear based on one practice match who the 6 7 8 and 9 will in fact be. regardless, all these guys are capable of clearing the boundary and all are reliable, with the exception of cummins. However, Cummins is still a very capable and dangerous slogger, and can go toe to toe with almost any other #9.

7) BANGLADESH - SHAKIB AL HASAN, MAHMADULLAH, NASIR HUSSAIN, MORTAZA

analysis: almost unfair to place them at 7 with some serious firepower between those 4.

8) PAKISTAN - IMAD, SHADAB, FAHIM, HASSAN

analysis : imad and shadab are good strokeplayers, but not the prototypical lower order strikers you need to finish a match. nor are they the type who will score 60 off 30 to save a match, Hassan ali has hardly done anything at the international level and fahim is still an unknown. these four are totally unproven and hardly dangerous on paper to any quality death bowling attack.





as you can see Pakistan do not have multiple big hitters like these other teams, nor has anyone proven themselves at all. they are dead last.
Click to expand...

First while making this thread I thought the lower order starts at 7. So didnt include the likes of Buttler who come at no 6. But as you did, atleast have same positions for all teams. When was the last time Imad batted at 6?

This is Pak 7-11 which I thought that if they play are better than all others. Imad, Shadab, Fahim, Amir, Hasan.

I will add few comments on your analysis.

Eng:
Explained in my above posts how Pak wins 3-2 ;)

SA:
You said Miller and Morris are dangerous hitters. First Miller comes at no.6 and secondly are we talking about the same Miller , Morris who couldn't achieve 7 off 6 balls yesterday?
SA no 7-11 are Morris, Phelakyo, Rabada, Tahir, Parnell/Morkel. Pak 7-11 better than them imo

Ind:
Dhoni comes at 5 and Jedhav at 6. Most likely No 7 is Pandya, 8 Jadeja, 9 Ashwin, 10 Shami, 11 Bumrah. Dont think it is better than Pak 7-11
 
Nah mate. England's is still better, they have proper century makers in their line up while we have sloggers who aren't even that good at it.

Fahim has potential, lets see how he performs in actual matches.
 
Syed1 said:
The top order comprising of Azhar, Shehzad and Hafeez won't even leave any balls for the lower order to have any impact.
Click to expand...

You have a serious obsession against those three. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a creepy shrine of them in your house like those serial killers from the movies.

Every thread is not an excuse for you to repeat the same thing the millionth time.
 
KhalidRafi said:
You have a serious obsession against those three. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a creepy shrine of them in your house like those serial killers from the movies.

Every thread is not an excuse for you to repeat the same thing the millionth time.
Click to expand...

You talking to me? You talking to meee?
 
Ooper batting hai nahi aur aye lower order keh gun gaatay hway.

This is like having a fancy exterior for an engineless car
 
IM NOT YOU said:
I laughed when I saw the thread title but I will go about it a politically correct way.

No - we absolutely do not have the best lower order. In fact, quite possibly the worst.


best to worst in order 6 7 8 9 batsman


1)ENGLAND - BUTTLER, ALI, WOAKES, PLUNKETT

analysis: England have the deepest lineup of any team. even at #10 adil Rashid or david willey can strike a few. the dangerous hitting actually starts at #5 with ben stokes, who usually ends up being around overs 35 to 40 when the fun starts. England set themselves up well thanks to reliable batting from hales, morgan, etc. with stokes buttler woakes and plunkett there is massive hitting all over the place. Now with moeen ali having learned to strike a ball, and having gotten fitter and stronger, it is clear even the once weak link is now a dangerous batsman. England bat strong and deep and hit the ball hard!

2) SOUTH AFRICA - BEHARDIEN, MILLLER, MORRIS, PRETORIOUS

analysis: miller and morris are 2 of the worlds most dangerous strikers. combine that with behardien's reliability and pretorious's big hitting and south Africa have a very dangerous lower order.

3) SRI LANKA - GUNARATNE, THISARA PERERA, PRASANNA, KULASEKARA

analysis: as unsettled and new as sri lanka's team may be on paper, the majority of the uncertainty is in the top order. the bottom order is very dangerous. all four of these guys can take a match away from any bowling attack. extremely dangerous and underrated.


4) INDIA - DHONI, PANDYA, JADEJA, ASHWIN

analysis: 3 dangerous guys, and a very reliable #9, albeit maybe not a very big hitter in ashwin.

5) NEW ZEALAND - NEESHAM, MUNRO, SANTNER, MILNE

analysis: like sri lanka, new Zealand has shuffled a bit and there are questions in the top and middle order. the bottom order, however, is very dangerous. these guys can all clear the boundary.



6) AUSTRALIA - HENRIQUES, WADE, STOINIS, CUMMINS

analysis: without Faulkner and marsh or Maxwell as part of the lower order, it doesn't seem quite as dangerous as they were a year ago, a time where Australia may have been #1 in the lower order dangerous striking ability department. with the current squad it is unclear based on one practice match who the 6 7 8 and 9 will in fact be. regardless, all these guys are capable of clearing the boundary and all are reliable, with the exception of cummins. However, Cummins is still a very capable and dangerous slogger, and can go toe to toe with almost any other #9.

7) BANGLADESH - SHAKIB AL HASAN, MAHMADULLAH, NASIR HUSSAIN, MORTAZA

analysis: almost unfair to place them at 7 with some serious firepower between those 4.

8) PAKISTAN - IMAD, SHADAB, FAHIM, HASSAN

analysis : imad and shadab are good strokeplayers, but not the prototypical lower order strikers you need to finish a match. nor are they the type who will score 60 off 30 to save a match, Hassan ali has hardly done anything at the international level and fahim is still an unknown. these four are totally unproven and hardly dangerous on paper to any quality death bowling attack.





as you can see Pakistan do not have multiple big hitters like these other teams, nor has anyone proven themselves at all. they are dead last.
Click to expand...

This thread didn't deserve a post with as much effort
 
Pakistan has a very good batting line up. It is the bowling which is garbage
 
If the top order fires then the lower order is not even required to bat. Personally I seriously doubt that Pakistan lower order can do much against a strong bowling attack.
 
What if we swapped our lower order for our top order, wouldn't on average we always be 100 or so after first 15-20 overs?
 
We should reverse our batting line up,

Hassan
Fahim
Babar
Amir
Shoaib
Imad
 
Let these guys score and contribute on a more consistent basis before deciding whether it's the best tail in the world.
 
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