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Do Pure Rank Turner Pitches Produce The Most Exciting Test Cricket Ever?

sensible-indian-fan

sensible-indian-fan

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I know I know.....please spare us the cliches about "cricket being destroyed", "balanced pitches", "unfair home advantage". This thread ain't about that.

Also no one is suggesting we should have rank turners always.

But I have noticed that whenever we get a rank turner, the games were far more competitive and INCREDIBLY MORE FUN. You just can't take your eyes off the game. If opposition was 25/0, you would start worrying :))

Here's a list of all the rank turner pitches India played at home since 2011 WC.

India vs England Mumbai 2012 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/565807.html

India vs Australia Chennai 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598812.html

India vs Australia Delhi 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598815.html

India vs South Africa Mohali 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903603.html

India vs South Africa Nagpur 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903607.html

For the fans who are surprised how so many runs were scored on some rank turners (300,400,500)....I have 3 pieces of advice:

a. Watch more cricket :uakmal
b. All rank turners are not made equal. Some rank turner pitches will have its easy and hard periods.
c. Sometimes rank turners can spin big but it can be consistent spin which can be high scoring

The Delhi rank turner game was the MOST FUN where India had to chase down 150 on a dangerous pitch with Pujara scoring a crazy good 82* on it. We could have easily lost it if not for Pujara.

----

I personally found every single rank turner game to be fun whether you win or lose.

Who can forget the legendary rank turner of 2004 Mumbai where the match was soo damn close between India and Aus

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/64102.html

Now green tracks are similar to rank turners but sometimes green tracks can ease out to become pattas. So there is no guarantee that it will remain low scoring throughout.

So are rank turners possibly the most entertaining form of test cricket?

What's your take?
 
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No green mambas do provided that the bounce is true for most part

In raging turners often the ability and class of a batsman is taken out of the equation with deliveries going straight, taking sharp turn, keeping low or jumping up.

In green mambas such non controllables are lesser

Also in green mambas the pacers still need to be somewhat good and skilled.

In the rank turners almost anyone who can roll the arm can end up with wickets like Harmer last year
 
Slog said:
No green mambas do provided that the bounce is true for most part

In raging turners often the ability and class of a batsman is taken out of the equation with deliveries going straight, taking sharp turn, keeping low or jumping up.

In green mambas such non controllables are lesser

Also in green mambas the pacers still need to be somewhat good and skilled.

In the rank turners almost anyone who can roll the arm can end up with wickets like Harmer last year
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Not true Slog ji.

You are comparing some decent green tracks with the worst rank turners.

Do a like for like comparison.

You can score 400+ on a rank turner but there is no way you can do that on a pure green mamba.

When the ball spins a lot, you still have the time to pay it.

On green tracks that jags around like crazy, you don't have time. That's why sub 100 scores are more common on ctazy green tracks than rank turners.

Here's proof - India tour of NZ where we had ATGs and a strong batting lineup

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64020.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64021.html

See the scores?
 
Also its not that pacers need more skill to succeed in green tracks than spinners on rank turners.

Pacers need accuracy to succeed in any pitch and its relatively harder for a pacer to be accurate than a spinner.

So success for pacers in green tracks is a question of accuracy and not skills.
 
A pitch that makes the likes of Ashwin and Jaddu turn into World Beaters against Amla and AB are the worst imo.

The Pitches in England for the Last series against Pakistan were the best for Test Cricket along with Aussie Test Wickets of the 90s.
 
This might be called a rank turner once Ashwin and Jaddu bowl :))
 
I disagree, I think the most entertaining cricket matches are played on hard and bouncy wickets like those typically found in Australia a decade ago. It's exciting to see the ball fly through to the keeper at great pace. It's exciting because the batsmen get great value for their shots and the bowlers get steep bounce off good lengths. Even spinners get something out of fast and bouncy wickets.

Green tops and turning tracks come second to fast, hard and bouncy wickets, because they only favour a certain kind of bowler and a certain kind of batsman. They're selective like that. So while they produce tight matches more often than bouncy fast wickets (which usually result in huge one-sided wins and not close games) I don't find them more entertaining or exciting.

Next come batting paradises, which occasionally can produce a thrilling day five finish - like the Adelaide Ashes test of 2006/07 and the Adelaide test of India's 2013/14 tour of Australia. Usually these are pretty boring for the first four days though.

The worst kinds of pitches are slow and low with absolutely nothing in them for anybody. At least flat roads have runs in them. Slow and low pitches offer nothing at all. Examples include the Cardiff pitch for the 2015 Ashes (which is the worst pitch I've ever seen) and the Nagpur pitch for England's tour of India in 2012/13.
 
And also the WACA pitch from this summer's New Zealand test was also atrocious in being slow and low.
 
Agree with [MENTION=135125]Pantani[/MENTION]'s post WABA has usually been my fav before it went weird,kinda liked Kolkata pitch in start but don't like that from Indian pitches.
 
Rank turners would provide an extremely interesting match if 2 very good teams are Asia, like Pakistan vs india or Sri Lanka, that'd be fun to watch.
 
Greem mamba generally flattens out in couple of days. So, not that entertaining for me after first two days while raging Turner keeps you glued to screen throughout the test match.

The question here is which is more exiting to watch, and definitely turner gives us more excitement.

The challenge on Turner is to play and judge balls, it's about skill of batsman not skill of bowler. If you have proper technique, you can play even warne of Turner without much sweat bur without technique playing even guy like harmer would be difficult.
 
Depends on how good players of spin the batters are. If they are rubbish against spin it can be comical at times.
 
No, not always.

I would prefer pitches like the one we had in this test. Classical Indian pitch, good for batting on first 2 days, starts acting up on day 3 and by the end of day 4 becomes a mine-field.

200-250 all 4 innings are no fun. You'd like to see the likes of Kohli, Rahane, Williamson score runs as well.

(I take liberty to say this test before its even completed because of hint of sharp turn and bounce that we can already see from rough spots)
 
aniket1911 said:
Greem mamba generally flattens out in couple of days. So, not that entertaining for me after first two days while raging Turner keeps you glued to screen throughout the test match.

The question here is which is more exiting to watch, and definitely turner gives us more excitement.

The challenge on Turner is to play and judge balls, it's about skill of batsman not skill of bowler. If you have proper technique, you can play even warne of Turner without much sweat bur without technique playing even guy like harmer would be difficult.
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Turner on the contrary takes away the skill factor and makes spin bowlers a threat whether you're a warne or murali kartik. And no matter how good a batsman you are, you will get one ball that does something crazy and you're out.

As a batsman you can probably negotiate one such ball every over, not 6 every over, no matter how much skill you possess.
 
How is it fair that a pitch can act well for 2 days and then become hard?

So team batting first gets all the nice advantage and the other side is left to rot?

A sporting pitch is one which brings in BOTH spinners and pacers while giving batsmen value for their shots..plus stays same for the duration of 1st innings of both sides before becoming harder.

This mythical pitch is super rare and hard to prepare.

Every other type of pitch is disadvantageous to spinners or pacers or team batting first or second.
 
They're fun once a in a while, not every match like the SA series last year.

Personally I prefer a green pitch more but that's just because I like watching fast bowling more. They're the same idea, destroy the batting, but even those I'd want once in a while.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
Turner on the contrary takes away the skill factor and makes spin bowlers a threat whether you're a warne or murali kartik. And no matter how good a batsman you are, you will get one ball that does something crazy and you're out.

As a batsman you can probably negotiate one such ball every over, not 6 every over, no matter how much skill you possess.
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But it's not like it's not been done before. Many players who had skills have shown how to play on turners, KPs knock come into my mind. By Turner I mean a proper Turner not variable bounce pitch (atleast for first three days) which is considered bad pitch.
 
No they're disgraceful. Imagine an uncovered Wanderers pitch hit by the elements (or over prepared in terms of water and grass cover). Not only would it be dangerous but unplayable
 
Personally, I find bouncy pitches like the Gabba that offer a bit of lateral movement to be the most exciting. It's fair contest because batsmen get value for their shots and bowlers despite having help cannot be off target because of the true bounce.
 
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I like the turners Sri Lanka produce, especially at Galle. Thought the Galle Tests last year vs Pakistan, India and West Indies were entertaining matches.
 
Rank turners and green mambas both produce somewhat unsatisfying cricket. Any pitch that produces good cricket is a good pitch. The pitches and the conditions in the recently concluded Eng vs Pak series were good pitches. We saw 200s being scored and bowlers taking 10 wickets in a match( a spinner and a fast bowler).
 
Any pitch that isn't dangerous for the players is a good pitch IMO. The reason we might think that green pitches or turners are the most exciting is because they have been pretty rare recently.
 
Any pitch that is fair to the bowling & batting can be termed a good pitch. I neither consider flatbeds as good or Greentop as good.
 
Rank turners are the most exciting for mine as well. Good watching. Every delivery becomes an event throughout the entire game. Whereas green mambas generally tend to flatten out after the first couple of days or so.
 
Rank turners are very good to watch, but then batsmen have to be good players of spin.
 
England vs Bangladesh

Day 3 and every single moment is a PRESSURE COOKER SITUATION.

Bangladesh looked slightly ahead at the start of today but Stokes changed the game.

Now England are at 28/3 with a lead of 73 hoping to set a target of 200.

Anything can happen. :D
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I know I know.....please spare us the cliches about "cricket being destroyed", "balanced pitches", "unfair home advantage". This thread ain't about that.

Also no one is suggesting we should have rank turners always.

But I have noticed that whenever we get a rank turner, the games were far more competitive and INCREDIBLY MORE FUN. You just can't take your eyes off the game. If opposition was 25/0, you would start worrying :))

Here's a list of all the rank turner pitches India played at home since 2011 WC.

India vs England Mumbai 2012 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/565807.html

India vs Australia Chennai 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598812.html

India vs Australia Delhi 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598815.html

India vs South Africa Mohali 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903603.html

India vs South Africa Nagpur 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903607.html

For the fans who are surprised how so many runs were scored on some rank turners (300,400,500)....I have 3 pieces of advice:

a. Watch more cricket :uakmal
b. All rank turners are not made equal. Some rank turner pitches will have its easy and hard periods.
c. Sometimes rank turners can spin big but it can be consistent spin which can be high scoring

The Delhi rank turner game was the MOST FUN where India had to chase down 150 on a dangerous pitch with Pujara scoring a crazy good 82* on it. We could have easily lost it if not for Pujara.

----

I personally found every single rank turner game to be fun whether you win or lose.

Who can forget the legendary rank turner of 2004 Mumbai where the match was soo damn close between India and Aus

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/64102.html

Now green tracks are similar to rank turners but sometimes green tracks can ease out to become pattas. So there is no guarantee that it will remain low scoring throughout.

So are rank turners possibly the most entertaining form of test cricket?

What's your take?
Click to expand...

watch Pakistan V West Indies, 1st Day Night game and how amazing it was, everyone is still praising the quality of cricket played btw the two sides. And that wasn't on a rank turner

Pakistan V England Test series, not the best pitches for spinners and look at the quality of cricket

so to answer your question, No. rank turners don't produce exciting cricket. Maybe exciting for the home fans but to a nuetral point of view they just kills the purpose of a Test cricket where two sides Test themselves out on equal conditions

Bangladesh are winning in their home grounds only. Will you call that exciting cricket. It is exciting for Bangladeshi fans but for the visitors they will call it poor pitches and nuetral like me will loose interest in their home games because the result is going to be obvious hence no excitement
 
The King of Kings said:
watch Pakistan V West Indies, 1st Day Night game and how amazing it was, everyone is still praising the quality of cricket played btw the two sides. And that wasn't on a rank turner

Pakistan V England Test series, not the best pitches for spinners and look at the quality of cricket

so to answer your question, No. rank turners don't produce exciting cricket. Maybe exciting for the home fans but to a nuetral point of view they just kills the purpose of a Test cricket where two sides Test themselves out on equal conditions

Bangladesh are winning in their home grounds only. Will you call that exciting cricket. It is exciting for Bangladeshi fans but for the visitors they will call it poor pitches and nuetral like me will loose interest in their home games because the result is going to be obvious hence no excitement
Click to expand...

Pakistan vs WI was a rubbish pitch. Called so by all neutrals. game got interesting due to Pakistan's screw up.

England vs Pakistan 2015 series was good. 2012 series was very good.

India vs NZ pitches were normal tracks but the games weren't close.

Rank turners produce exciting cricket regardless of quality of teams. Whether its a desirable method is another topic.
 
The King of Kings said:
watch Pakistan V West Indies, 1st Day Night game and how amazing it was, everyone is still praising the quality of cricket played btw the two sides. And that wasn't on a rank turner

Pakistan V England Test series, not the best pitches for spinners and look at the quality of cricket

so to answer your question, No. rank turners don't produce exciting cricket. Maybe exciting for the home fans but to a nuetral point of view they just kills the purpose of a Test cricket where two sides Test themselves out on equal conditions

Bangladesh are winning in their home grounds only. Will you call that exciting cricket. It is exciting for Bangladeshi fans but for the visitors they will call it poor pitches and nuetral like me will loose interest in their home games because the result is going to be obvious hence no excitement
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't. It was a borefest for the first 3 days, and then the game exploded in the last 2 days.

A rank turner is never a borefest, and is close irrespective of the opposition. A rank turners reduces the gap of quality between the spinners of the two sides. Thats why the SA bowlers from last years' series looked so threatening.

Having said that, I do not want India to play on more then 1 rank turner a series. Because it reduces the gap between the two sides. If we play on normal indian pitches, which are normal turners then it makes India extremely dominant, thanks to our spin attack, which is the best in the world right now.
 
Disadvantages:

1. Games get too close even with weaker teams due to opponent spinners coming into the game big time
2. Batsmen average reduces but no one gives them benefit for that
3. Bowlers' average gets better but people dismiss them anyways

So normal tracks mixed in with odd rank turners is the way to go.

But the normal tracks must have CONSISTENT spin (low to high as the game progresses) and not the kind we saw against NZ.

But if you want truly exciting cricket, rank turners are by far the BEST.

They never can flatten out unlike some green tracks.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Pakistan vs WI was a rubbish pitch. Called so by all neutrals. game got interesting due to Pakistan's screw up.

England vs Pakistan 2015 series was good. 2012 series was very good.

India vs NZ pitches were normal tracks but the games weren't close.

Rank turners produce exciting cricket regardless of quality of teams. Whether its a desirable method is another topic.
Click to expand...

no they don't and you can say all you want. Facts will remain the same, rank turners are bullying your way to victory. Test cricket is about testing each other on equal grounds. You provide alien conditions and then celebrate the victories like you won on their grounds. Pathetic is the least value word that comes to my mind
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Disadvantages:

1. Games get too close even with weaker teams due to opponent spinners coming into the game big time
2. Batsmen average reduces but no one gives them benefit for that
3. Bowlers' average gets better but people dismiss them anyways

So normal tracks mixed in with odd rank turners is the way to go.

But the normal tracks must have CONSISTENT spin (low to high as the game progresses) and not the kind we saw against NZ.

But if you want truly exciting cricket, rank turners are by far the BEST.

They never can flatten out unlike some green tracks.
Click to expand...

Green mambas > rank turners. Green mambas = exaggerated movement in the air and off the pitch, rank turners = uneven turn and bounce making it a lottery.
 
The King of Kings said:
no they don't and you can say all you want. Facts will remain the same, rank turners are bullying your way to victory. Test cricket is about testing each other on equal grounds. You provide alien conditions and then celebrate the victories like you won on their grounds. Pathetic is the least value word that comes to my mind
Click to expand...

Haha.... :)))
 
Cricket's most fascinating thing is watching a fast bowler bowl. Rank tuners take away that from you. Also pitch keeps deteriorating and every laloo panjoo spinners becomes unplayable.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Not really, you can predict what the ball will do, ot the case with rank turners. Anyway, we all know that you never change your mind :)
Click to expand...

As if you change your mind. :))

I change my mind when proper arguments are presented.

And you are incorrect in your post.

---

There are rank turners with even bounce...rank turners with uneven bounce....green tracks with even bounce...green tracks with uneven bounce.

Uneven bounce has a danger element whether a pitch is rank turner or green track or sluggish slow track. You have to do a like to like comparison.

In fact, rank turners can be high scoring while green tracks can never be. Check Chennai 2013, etc. The only high scoring green tracks are those which flatten out eventually.

---

And the above explanation is what I do best:

Reasoning.

Sorry for being a bit arrogant. Your response deserved it a bit. Nothing against you as a poster. ;-)
 
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But rank turners also due to their dusty nature brings the packers into play too. You know after all reverse swing is also available. Case in point : Stokesy's spell today.

Rank turners are clearly more eventful and happening.
 
"Do Pure Rank Turner Pitches Produce The Most Exciting Test Cricket Ever? "

Yes, it does. But not Indian ones which are up and down in bounce.

Sri Lankan ones produce spin and seam both, with good bounce. SL-IND test series is a good example of what is exciting cricket on rank turners.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
As if you change your mind. :))

I change my mind when proper arguments are presented.

And you are incorrect in your post.

---

There are rank turners with even bounce...rank turners with uneven bounce....green tracks with even bounce...green tracks with uneven bounce.

Uneven bounce has a danger element whether a pitch is rank turner or green track or sluggish slow track. You have to do a like to like comparison.

In fact, rank turners can be high scoring while green tracks can never be. Check Chennai 2013, etc. The only high scoring green tracks are those which flatten out eventually.

---

And the above explanation is what I do best:

Reasoning.

Sorry for being a bit arrogant. Your response deserved it a bit. Nothing against you as a poster. ;-)
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any green pitches produce shooters, at least not in the last 5 years. Could you give a few examples?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I know I know.....please spare us the cliches about "cricket being destroyed", "balanced pitches", "unfair home advantage". This thread ain't about that.

Also no one is suggesting we should have rank turners always.

But I have noticed that whenever we get a rank turner, the games were far more competitive and INCREDIBLY MORE FUN. You just can't take your eyes off the game. If opposition was 25/0, you would start worrying :))

Here's a list of all the rank turner pitches India played at home since 2011 WC.

India vs England Mumbai 2012 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/565807.html

India vs Australia Chennai 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598812.html

India vs Australia Delhi 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598815.html

India vs South Africa Mohali 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903603.html

India vs South Africa Nagpur 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903607.html

For the fans who are surprised how so many runs were scored on some rank turners (300,400,500)....I have 3 pieces of advice:

a. Watch more cricket :uakmal
b. All rank turners are not made equal. Some rank turner pitches will have its easy and hard periods.
c. Sometimes rank turners can spin big but it can be consistent spin which can be high scoring

The Delhi rank turner game was the MOST FUN where India had to chase down 150 on a dangerous pitch with Pujara scoring a crazy good 82* on it. We could have easily lost it if not for Pujara.

----

I personally found every single rank turner game to be fun whether you win or lose.

Who can forget the legendary rank turner of 2004 Mumbai where the match was soo damn close between India and Aus

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/64102.html

Now green tracks are similar to rank turners but sometimes green tracks can ease out to become pattas. So there is no guarantee that it will remain low scoring throughout.

So are rank turners possibly the most entertaining form of test cricket?

What's your take?
Click to expand...

Chennai 2013 wasnt a rank turner.Dhoni of all people scored a double ton :))

A rank turner is one which not only turns big and quick,but the also the bounce is uneven.Only the best players of spin are able to survive and no one can dominate for long

Mumbai 2004 and Mohali 2015 are true examples
 
Indian wickets are fine but if eery match is on a rank turner it's difficult
 
I'm all for greentops and rank turners. Personally I always like India being presented with greentops because that's the only way our pacers will gain venom and also I feel India have a top 5 with good enough top 5 to deal with it. Ashwin isn't bad on green tracks too.

There is a difference between a rank turner and an under prepared pitch. A pitch can be a rank turner, yet with consistent bounce. Now that tests the technique of a batsman against the turning ball where hacks will be found out. But an underprepared wicket has uneven bounce and spots where the ball doesn't turn and spots where it turns and bounces big time. Nagpur was one such wicket and I hate such wickets.

But the biggest enemies of cricket are pattas which assist neither pace nor spin bowling and you end up with scores of 580/3 after the first innings. Those are the wickets which drive people away from test cricket and makes it a snoozefest. Such wickets should be abolished from cricket.
 
Proving it yet again in the ongoing Eng vs Bang series.

What would have otherwise been a boring series with England winning it on flattish spin tracks has now turned into an enthralling one due to rank turners.

The series has been so close that either side could have whitewashed each other. :))

England still can.

But Bangladesh has the upper hand in this test and could level the series.
 
Where are those rank turners???? 2 out of 5 test are draw that too against england who lost a series to

bangladesh not too long ago .the last test wicket is pathetic than dubai pitch which is also as bad as any one
 
saeed5646 said:
Where are those rank turners???? 2 out of 5 test are draw that too against england who lost a series to

bangladesh not too long ago .the last test wicket is pathetic than dubai pitch which is also as bad as any one
Click to expand...

Because people complain if India puts out rank turners. So they laid out flat tracks for a change.
 
This series has been so painful to watching.

Bored out of my mind for 5 Tests, this isn't the damn Ashes where 5 Tests are justified...
 
Haha.....rank turners where art thou?

Even foreign fans are craving for such pitches after they got a taste of the "wonderful sporting" pitches dished out in this series.

Meanwhile in Chennai, Indian bowlers are bowling their heart out and still wicket hasn't fallen.
 
Yeah come to think of it, there really was no turner this series, was there?
 
Chrish said:
Yeah come to think of it, there really was no turner this series, was there?
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Mumbai was one. But a high scoring one where taking wickets was more harder than the slow and low dull pitches. But it made for great cricket where both centuries and wickets in that pitch could be appreciated.

But no pitch that really was favouring bowlers wherein they just had to land in the right areas. Very batsmen friendly series.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Mumbai was one. But a high scoring one where taking wickets was more harder than the slow and low dull pitches. But it made for great cricket where both centuries and wickets in that pitch could be appreciated.

But no pitch that really was favouring bowlers wherein they just had to land in the right areas. Very batsmen friendly series.
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Yeah it has been a dull series.. But then again SA series was equally dull too for being too predictable. There was no momentum

Not sure where middle-ground lies. I have a feeling we will see the wickets like current series from now on.

It seems ICC doesn't want to cope with criticism of making bad wickets
 
Chrish said:
Yeah it has been a dull series.. But then again SA series was equally dull too for being too predictable. There was no momentum

Not sure where middle-ground lies. I have a feeling we will see the wickets like current series from now on.

It seems ICC doesn't want to cope with criticism of making bad wickets
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Cricinfo Dobell wrote in an article yesterday that counties that prepare heavy seam tracks that get teams bundled out in a session don't get penalized while those that prepare heavy spin tracks (rarely if they do) will get penalized for poor pitches.

This is coming from a Westerner.

Same problem in the world.

What's worse is that the biggest critics of Asian pitches are Asians themselves.

The inferiority complex is so mind boggling. A lot of desi people either have a sense of inferiority or a sense of superiority (to make up for the inferiority).

The middle ground is good pitches for some matches mixed in with RAGING turners for some. Good seam tracks are not the only test a batsman has to pass.
 
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^All the recent series have been predictable cos opposition hasn't been upto the mark.

Don't think pitches can solve that problem.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Cricinfo Dobell wrote in an article yesterday that counties that prepare heavy seam tracks that get teams bundled out in a session don't get penalized while those that prepare heavy spin tracks (rarely if they do) will get penalized for poor pitches.

This is coming from a Westerner.

Same problem in the world.

What's worse is that the biggest critics of Asian pitches are Asians themselves.

The inferiority complex is so mind boggling. A lot of desi people either have a sense of inferiority or a sense of superiority (to make up for the inferiority).

The middle ground is good pitches for some matches mixed in with RAGING turners for some. Good seam tracks are not the only test a batsman has to pass.
Click to expand...

In the case of Dobell article, isn't it a western superiority complex? They think spin bowling is a lowly entity and should not be encouraged.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Cricinfo Dobell wrote in an article yesterday that counties that prepare heavy seam tracks that get teams bundled out in a session don't get penalized while those that prepare heavy spin tracks (rarely if they do) will get penalized for poor pitches.

This is coming from a Westerner.

Same problem in the world.

What's worse is that the biggest critics of Asian pitches are Asians themselves.

The inferiority complex is so mind boggling. A lot of desi people either have a sense of inferiority or a sense of superiority (to make up for the inferiority).

The middle ground is good pitches for some matches mixed in with RAGING turners for some. Good seam tracks are not the only test a batsman has to pass.
Click to expand...

I think the usual criticism of wicket is it's not supposed to start breaking down on day 2-3. It's supposed to last till at least day 4. when wicket breaks down, it creates uneven bounce and it creates bit of "lottery" element to keeping your wicket. The main criticism was when part-timer like Elgar was able to do so well..

But to counter that, NZ gambled with green tracks against Australia hoping they can make them bat 1st but lost the toss and got muled instead. Is this not a negative tactic too? Doesn't the side who bats 2nd have an unfair advantage over the side batting 1st?

So I can see there is definitely double standard..

And yes, India is just too good for tourists at home.. So turner or road, I don't see that would make any difference
 
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HateKiller said:
In the case of Dobell article, isn't it a western superiority complex? They think spin bowling is a lowly entity and should not be encouraged.
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Absolutely (which is what Dobell was lamenting). Aided with Asian inferiority complex, it makes a deadly combo.

Chrish said:
I think the usual criticism of wicket is it's not supposed to start breaking down on day 2-3. It's supposed to last till at least day 4. when wicket breaks down, it creates uneven bounce and it creates bit of "lottery" element to keeping your wicket. The main criticism was when part-timer like Elgar was able to do so well..

But to counter that, NZ gambled with green tracks against Australia hoping they can make them bat 1st but lost the toss and got muled instead. Is this not a negative tactic too? Doesn't the side who bats 2nd have an unfair advantage over the side batting 1st?

So I can see there is definitely double standard..

And yes, India is just too good for tourists at home.. So turner or road, I don't see that would make any difference
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Yeah....but the thing is that everyone accepts uneven bounce pitch is a bad one. But not all turners are uneven bounce. I can't remember the last time when a turner was risking injuries to batsman's. A random ball spitting is just as likely to happen in a seamer friendly track.

I feel there is nothing wrong in Dean Elgar taking a bunch of fluke wickets on a friendly pitch. He was carted around after that innings. If you give a green seamer to Ganguly, he could even take a 5fer.

In SA series, people could criticize cos our batting wasn't upto the mark. Had we scored 300-400 in those 2 rank turner tests (which we could have atleast in Mohali), they couldn't have criticized the pitch so much.
 
I feel Kohli has a lot of say in these matters and he as usual wanted "prove" India can win on non-rank turners that's why we have ended up with a pretty dull series,4 test matches were good enough 5 is way too much.
 
JaDed said:
I feel Kohli has a lot of say in these matters and he as usual wanted "prove" India can win on non-rank turners that's why we have ended up with a pretty dull series,4 test matches were good enough 5 is way too much.
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I think the series was good, 3 results and 1 draw making India sweat a little, while here England is fighting to save the test.
 
Metron said:
I think the series was good, 3 results and 1 draw making India sweat a little, while here England is fighting to save the test.
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Its about pandering to western media/fans/commentators,which I have come to dislike.
 
Will we get some extra overs in case Jaddu and Mishra finish the remaining 16 well ahead of time?
 
Spin bowling is boring, fast bowling is exciting. Spin is only exciting when done well on a pitch that is not made to cater to it. (warne etc)
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I know I know.....please spare us the cliches about "cricket being destroyed", "balanced pitches", "unfair home advantage". This thread ain't about that.

Also no one is suggesting we should have rank turners always.

But I have noticed that whenever we get a rank turner, the games were far more competitive and INCREDIBLY MORE FUN. You just can't take your eyes off the game. If opposition was 25/0, you would start worrying :))

Here's a list of all the rank turner pitches India played at home since 2011 WC.

India vs England Mumbai 2012 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/565807.html

India vs Australia Chennai 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598812.html

India vs Australia Delhi 2013 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/engine/current/match/598815.html

India vs South Africa Mohali 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903603.html

India vs South Africa Nagpur 2015 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903607.html

For the fans who are surprised how so many runs were scored on some rank turners (300,400,500)....I have 3 pieces of advice:

a. Watch more cricket :uakmal
b. All rank turners are not made equal. Some rank turner pitches will have its easy and hard periods.
c. Sometimes rank turners can spin big but it can be consistent spin which can be high scoring

The Delhi rank turner game was the MOST FUN where India had to chase down 150 on a dangerous pitch with Pujara scoring a crazy good 82* on it. We could have easily lost it if not for Pujara.

----

I personally found every single rank turner game to be fun whether you win or lose.

Who can forget the legendary rank turner of 2004 Mumbai where the match was soo damn close between India and Aus

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/64102.html

Now green tracks are similar to rank turners but sometimes green tracks can ease out to become pattas. So there is no guarantee that it will remain low scoring throughout.

So are rank turners possibly the most entertaining form of test cricket?

What's your take?
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Except NAGPUR I am fine with other pitches. No complain. Interesting than UAE.
 
I am all for rank turner and green mamba and dislike UAE type (uae,some Ind pitch,Khulna,fatullah and many other flat all around globe) pitches. I want result than only run fest.
 
IMO West Indian pitches are the worst. And personally I don't find high-scoring matches on rank turners to be that exciting. Bouncy tracks produce far more exciting Test cricket.
 
Actually I do like both. Turners as well as Green stuff. For me, the key thing is that the pitch should deteriorate enough so that 3rd and 4th Innings are wayyyyy tougher than the 1st and 2nd.

Not always, but often enough Green tracks flatten out by the 3rd innings. So, basically whatever happens on the first two days, drives the result.

In the end, I would like to see a full match, not just 3 days of hit or miss.

But if you are talking about excitement, then I might lean towards green mambas a bit. Thing is, not too many teams are competitive on rank turners. And without competition, there is no excitement.
 
For the bashing we did against indians for rank turners... I would gladly have rank turners instead of what rameez has given us
 
They seem to work for India and Sri Lanka, but I wouldn't call explosions on a Day 1 pitch 'exciting'. Rank-turners that give you 2.5 to 3 day tests are the opposite extreme of what Pakistan has dished out in this series.

The most exciting cricket is always when there is a relative balance between bat and ball. And the only country where I see matches that offer enough of this is England.
 
An ideal Test Pitch is the one where wickets fall frequently and runs are hard to come so Turner's are much more preferable than Flat Tracks.
 
An ideal test wicket should give some help to pacers on first day, good for batting on day 2,3 and 1/2 of 4th day and give help to spinners after lunch or tea on 4th day.

But any wicket, or even rank turners are better than dead roads like wickets .
 
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