Do we have players in our domestic cricket who can replace the dead weight in our team and do better?

Savak

Test Captain
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
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47,619
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Some might have the opinion that the likes of Fakhar, Shadab, Iftikhar, Azam Khan, Imad Wasim are the best we have and therefore we have no choice but to keep picking them.

But at some point you have to hold players accountable especially when they have lost 5-6 major events in a row and even if it is perceived the domestic players aren't any better, you have to respect your domestic system and give a chance to other players and give them a decent amount of games to show case their talent, ability.

Personally my biggest concern is the fact that our players especially the batsmen coming in our system in our domestic cricket, the PSL and even established players in the national team have not developed modern T20 skills ie ramp shot, helicopter shots, reverse sweeps, reverse flicks, intelligently walking down at the last second to convert a yorker into a full toss, making enough room at the last minute to play a yorker towards third man. I mean these are modern T20 batting skills which we see in the IPL, Big Bash, SAT20 but you never seen this enough in the PSL.

You will see limited Pakistani batsmen do the same thing again and again ie cross batted slog on the leg side or waiting for a ball in the slot to free their arms as if someone like Bhumrah will give it to them on a platter but you won't see a single batsman play a surprise shot out of the box. This is why our limited overs T20 & ODI team has fallen so far behind the major teams in the world but what is the PCB doing to address this problem on a long term basis, this has to be addressed at our domestic, academy level.
 
POTW for me , you correctly pointed out , our batsmen still keep relying on hitting traditional slog shots when they try to hit and even they are not good at that , none of the batsmen having IQ to destabilize the bowlers plan by looking to play unexpected shots and actually execute it well most of the time, it’s clearly lack of skill and we are lacking behind in modern cricket,

Sorry none of the domestic batsmen are good enough for the national side except may be Sahibzada Farhan and Haseebullah, we need to get modern t20s coaches at the grass root level who can teach the young batters on how to outsmart the bowler so that he actually bowls a delivery in your hitting zone , t20 batting has become like chess and batters with low IQ will be all at sea.
 
I believe PJL was a strong contender for the structure of installing modern t20 batting but sadly due to politics it was scrapped
 
shahwaiz irfan can become a good t20 batter but he is not playing any domestic cricket , he’s got Rohitesque timing and massive power for his age.
 
Bro, when Fakhar played a ramp shot in the last match he was critisized like no tomr. Thing is, you get bashed if you do and you get bashed if you dont.

No matter who we play results will be same.

I remember back in the days i used to get angry at Afridi because he used to get out by playing aerial shots. He was no different than the current lot, but now is remember as some great finisher.

As @Mamoon has always said, no matter what, we were and are and will be just a normal side thats about it. We will have times when we will be absolutely brilliant, but not much hope from our side.
 
To answer the title of the thread, over the last 2 decades we always had prospects coming in who always did well, the domestic set up was flooded with talent and we were not short of depth in quality. Remember at one point we had influx of world class spinners now it’s zero lol.

Eventually, not upgrading the infrastructure, not keeping up with the transition and innovative changes in cricket was going to catch up with Pakistan and that’s exactly what has happened.

We are now witnessing players playing traditional outdated shots, limited in their game. Hell, I’d say we were more innovative 13-15 years ago when we had Jamshed, Nazir, Anwar, Afridi and Razzaq playing.

Now we have no quality, depth, exciting talent coming through. The players we have right now is the reality. Likes of Ayub/Haris have been struggling to adapt. We are on a decline. We have declined and it will only get worse.

Pakistan now LACKS aura, intelligence, tactical awareness and offensive play. This team has NO brand.
 
Haider Ali as finisher is better than both Iftikhar and Azam.

Shadab isn't better than Agha as a batsman or A/R

Fakhar and Imad are difficult to replace
 
20 years ago we had batsmen even though traditional ones but they had proper timing and quality shots against both pacers and quality spin bowling, we had spinners who can turn the ball miles and fairly accurate , now we don’t even have the initial level talent let alone the transition to modern cricket.
 
Seeing the under 19 batters really boiled my heart , they are being coached to play by the books with no innovation and even then they were not timing the ball on consistent basis , the spin talent is non existent at all levels which is shocking to see the least.
 
Saim , Haider , Haris , Shamyl are no where near the young talent of other countries in terms of consistent timing or innovation and outsmarting the bowlers
 
No, our domestic pool of talent is dead too. We don't have players like Virat Kohli, Travis Head, Bumrah, Jos Buttler, and Rachin Ravindra.

I challenge anyone to name a player we have who is like any of them.
 
I really think Pakistan should look to pick up ex-pat kids from the UK or elsewhere and offer them a contract. The kids these days are practicing all sorts of crazy shots and are executing them.

I really do not understand that after so many years of PSL there’s such a dearth of innovators and improvisers.

No one even tries the Miandad shots.
 
Check out the scorecards for any domestic T20 tournament in Pakistan. There are no upcoming talents that are in the system.
 
I really think Pakistan should look to pick up ex-pat kids from the UK or elsewhere and offer them a contract. The kids these days are practicing all sorts of crazy shots and are executing them.

I really do not understand that after so many years of PSL there’s such a dearth of innovators and improvisers.

No one even tries the Miandad shots.
That is the worst suggestion ever, rather than grass root efforts you are looking to pawn off others efforts. This will further kill whatever talent is left.
 
That is the worst suggestion ever, rather than grass root efforts you are looking to pawn off others efforts. This will further kill whatever talent is left.
It's not the worst suggestion but it does highlight how desperate we are. The Australian, Indian and English 2nd 11 would crush us 8 times out of 10.
 
No, our domestic pool of talent is dead too. We don't have players like Virat Kohli, Travis Head, Bumrah, Jos Buttler, and Rachin Ravindra.

I challenge anyone to name a player we have who is like any of them.

I didn't see a lot in the PSL, but I would pick a lot of them just because they are younger and might develop. Far better than sticking with deadwood that failed at their peak and are now even losing to USA. Saim Ayub didn't get to play a shot so far in this tournament, but did going with the tried and tested flops pay off any better?
 
The main issue is not talent and skill, it is mental toughness and physical fitness. Yes, Pakistan's talent pool has deteriorated over the years but in my opinion it is still good enough to compete internationally. Even yesterday we dismissed India for 120 and at the halfway mark we were right where we should have been. But then we imploded and our fitness issues, both physical and mental, were exposed. No amount of skill would have changed that. When your brain freezes and your body refuses to obey, you might have all the shots in the world you won't be able to execute them.

Iftikhar couldn't even hit the ball and it wasn't as if Indian bowlers were bowling unplayable deliveries. Imad was not able to run singles, let alone convert the ones into twos, and that wasn't because the Indian fielders weren't letting him, it was his knees. The issue wasn't them not being able to play lap sweeps or scoops the issue was a basic one just like it was in the US game with Aamir in the super over - they don't have the physical and mental fitness to execute in high pressure situations. I can bet my bottom dollar that Ifti would have hit the same balls for sixes had this been some league game or when the pressure was off. Similarly Imad's knees wouldn't have been an issue in league games, but at the highest level of the game such things are instantly exposed.

In team games mental strength is not just an individual's own ability but is equally dependent on the rest of the team and especially on the leader. Why do teams collapse when they have everything in control? Why and how can one ball change a game like Rizwan's wicket did yesterday. Because panic is contagious and its doubly dangerous when you aren't mentally and physically fit and don't have enough confidence in your abilities. History is replete with examples where far less talented players have achieved great feats and where good leaders have inspired mediocre teams to produce great results.

You can bring in any player from the domestic circuit but if the team and leadership isn't settled and there isn't a sense of belief then no player, however great, will win you games.

Not to say there aren't issues in this squad. There definitely are. Azam and Usman aren't international level players. Shadab's form doesn't merit selection and Imad doesn't have the fitness for international cricket. Who could we have selected instead?

Call me outdated but when it comes to batting I am still a firm believer in technique being the most important factor. Given the right training and a willingness to learn a technically competent player can learn aggression and powerhitting. And technically the best young player we have is Abdullah Shafique. I believe the guy has a very high ceiling and should play all formats. I also still think Saim has what it takes to be successful at the international level if he gets the right guidance and is more selective in his shot making.

Although pretty young and untested, I rate Arafat Minhas as one for the future and someone who can solve our allrounder issue. Aamir Jamal deserves more chances and so does Sahibzada Farhan (although I am not convinced about him). Haseeb looks like a good talent but perhaps more suited to ODIs.
 
That is the worst suggestion ever, rather than grass root efforts you are looking to pawn off others efforts. This will further kill whatever talent is left.
My point really is - what have we actually done at grassroots level - nothing.

We have spent years and years doing absolutely zilch.

And we are not likely to with a corrupt government and corrupt PCB.

So my suggestion is terrible but it’s also an indictment of Pakistan cricket.
 
first we need to change the captain. When your captain is dull , lacks innovation. Isn’t a good team manager . Has absolute no leadership quality or experience. Give him team of 10 match winners he will find a way to lose . Guy hasn’t even won a domestic tournament
 
We will only know once we give them change to prove themselves at international level. We should give these domestic top performers chance when we play against teams like Ireland, Zimbabwe, etc. but unfortunately our top players don't want to skip any of these games so they keep on playing and the domestic players keep on waiting.
 
Bro, when Fakhar played a ramp shot in the last match he was critisized like no tomr. Thing is, you get bashed if you do and you get bashed if you dont.

No matter who we play results will be same.

I remember back in the days i used to get angry at Afridi because he used to get out by playing aerial shots. He was no different than the current lot, but now is remember as some great finisher.

As @Mamoon has always said, no matter what, we were and are and will be just a normal side thats about it. We will have times when we will be absolutely brilliant, but not much hope from our side.
No one got mad at fakhar besides misbah clique. Everyone wants him to open and believes he's an odi specialist and proper t20 OPENER.

You'll never see @Rana @emranabbas @Dr_Bassim @YousafTheBeast or anyone else who loyally support actually blame fakhar considering even in that game he showed intent with a 6.

Their is no damn if you do, damn if you don't. All attention is on rizwan for bottling it.
 
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Salman can easily replace the likes of Azam khan and Iftikhar, Abrar should be your regular spinner now. Pacers are doing fine so far so cant really blame them. we need a solid middle order and need to get rid of hacks like Saim and Azam , usman khan type players now. They are not good enough.
 
There are players but they will get nowhere with Pakistan's inconsistent selection policies and lack of general direction. Not to mention, all these meaningless and useless T20 bilateral series that are played by our first team players just so they can break these equally meaningless records like fastest to 3000 T20 runs that nobody gives a sh!t about.

Off the top of my head, Agha Salman, Mohammad Haris, Saim Ayub, Abrar Ahmed, Abdullah Shafique, Mohammad Wasim Jr, Aamer Jamal, Irfan Khan are just some of the names that could benefit from a good, consistent run in the national side.

Saud Shakeel could be a serious player for us in Tests and ODIs. It might not even be too late to save Haider Ali. Let him work with a real coach like Gary Kirsten who understands his strengths and can maybe empower him to play a certain way and get rid of whatever mental block is holding him back.

But for any of this to happen you need to have balls to take risks and the foresight to be able to look at the bigger picture. Which the PCB or these selectors do not. They are afraid of failure. Which is funny because we are already losing these meaningless bilateral series with our first team and are on the cusp of being knocked out of a World Cup.

How much worse could a team made up of younger, more dynamic players possibly do? And who cares if we even lose these series? The only thing that matters is the T20 World Cup, which we have failed to win in 15 years.
 
Shahid Afridi, while talking to a local channel, said:

"Respect domestic cricket, keep in front the performances of those who play domestic cricket all year round. There are such boys. Let’s talk about Agha Salman, Khushdil Shah, shahibzada Farhan, and Mohammad Ali, who are all potential players where you need them in the team."

"Besides, there are many cricketers in domestic cricket. It’s not that no one has performed in domestic cricket. If Ahmad Shahzad is capable and has given so much in domestic cricket, then Ahmad, I mean to say, is a player you have. You should not sideline these players at all and send those who are needed back to domestic cricket."

"Our standards used to be such that playing for Pakistan was easy, and making a place in domestic cricket was a big deal. If someone played first-class cricket, they would become famous in the entire region as a first-class cricketer."

"We used to have very high standards for our domestic cricket. I don’t know why we ended department cricket because, Mohammad Wasim and Sohail Tanvir will tell you that there used to be very high standards for domestic cricket, and all players used to play when Pakistani players were not on tour or there was no international cricket."

"Believe me, everyone used to play domestic cricket. I even saw Javed Bhai playing all matches of department cricket. So, these were the standards, and in my opinion, the same thing is that Sohail Tanveer was just talking about, you take seniors and juniors together."
 
^^^ that is the problem, trying to look for inspiration from an era that Pakistan were good in, but only because the rest of the world hadn't improved, that old system wont work today.

you need ground up revitalisation, a massive program of grass root level coaching for modern cricket, a proper transparent pyramid, and a lot more domestic cricket. u cant play 3 months of the year and expect that's enough in a professional era.

you need age grade cricket running for three months, the premier domestic tournaments running for 4 months, and the best players out of them playing reserve and A grade cricket for 3 months, then graduating onto international leagues, and then being considered for Pakistan.

if you start today, u will get good players in 4 or 5 years, its not difficult, England show how it can be done, they went from being one of the most boring teams in white ball cricket to arguably the most exciting, all in about one world cup cycle, but you need professionalism, and that is something u will not get from a system which is an primarily and extension of political patronage.
 
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