Do you miss the time when Zimbabwe used to be a strong team?

[Dr_Bassim]

I understand in the middle of 90s and early 200s Zimbabwe had a much stronger team.

Now I know, it was not able to compete at that point with the level of Pakistan or Australia or other teams, but it was still able to hold its own.

Players like Andy Flower, Grant Flower, Paul Strang, Bryan Strang, Heath Streak were really good players who could turn matches around.

Even though by then West Indies were going down, they were signs that Zimbabwe would also follow the same route.

And alas they did.

So do you guys miss those times when a tour to Zimbabwe or West Indies was not just a meh tour?

That you actually had to perform to some level to get a positive result?

Nowadays, just showing up in Zimbabwe or West Indies means a win for the strong teams?

Opinions?

And also why did Zimbabwe fall down?

I understand the Windies were more interested in basketball and all also a couple of islands joined together with no inherent sense of patriotism was bound to lead to their downfall.

But what about Zimbos?

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Zimbabwe declined due to a ridiculously corrupt board, racist policies against white players, and Mugabe's general racism which led to a huge emigration of the white population who had historically made up the majority of the playing population.

In the 15 years since the ICC have done absolutely nothing to halt or control this, content to fling millions of dollars at the black hole that is ZC where the admin no doubt had a nice spending spree, and now its gotten to the point they cant even play domestic cricket and teams are batting with 3 players as the rest are on strike over unpaid wages. Throw in any promising young player rightfully fleeing as fast as they can to nations where they can earn a stable income and you've got a fine mess.

 

[WC-Passion]

Zimbabwe declined due to a ridiculously corrupt board, racist policies against white players, and Mugabe's general racism which led to a huge emigration of the white population who had historically made up the majority of the playing population.

In the 15 years since the ICC have done absolutely nothing to halt or control this, content to fling millions of dollars at the black hole that is ZC where the admin no doubt had a nice spending spree, and now its gotten to the point they cant even play domestic cricket and teams are batting with 3 players as the rest are on strike over unpaid wages. Throw in any promising young player rightfully fleeing as fast as they can to nations where they can earn a stable income and you've got a fine mess.

Good post, explains the situation well. Didn't realise that the situation had gotten that bad though, the domestic cricket part is shocking.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Good post, explains the situation well. Didn't realise that the situation had gotten that bad though, the domestic cricket part is shocking.

Happening right now actually. Can see the match for yourself on cricinfo. People at the ground saying the players aren't even trying and you can't blame them when the opposition has 3 players.

Only reason game is even underway is the national players have received their money, domestic players treated like dirt again.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Lol so this just happened.

Players went on strike.

National Players refused to back the domestic players who already get paid a pittance and havent received wages, decide to play anyway. The Rhinos who were 64/4 overnight went out several hours after the scheduled start and batted one ball then declared with a lead of 280.

Tuskers then went out to bat with only 3 batsmen, Williams,Mutumbami,Chari as they have national contracts. The game was played with absolutely zero attempt to make a match according to people there, noone knows how many fielders there even were, basically a farce. So Williams gets out, his replacement comes on and bats one ball and the Tuskers declare in their final innings 200 runs behind and lose the game

Full Membership eh, amazing how it allows crap like this to occur with impunity

 

[Last Monetarist]

Yes it's a massive shame along with the collapse of West Indian cricket. One of my favourite test series over the past two decades was the one played in June 2001 between India and Zimbabwe that was immensely competitive and produced an engrossing narrative. Still remember it fondly.

 

[WC-Passion]

Happening right now actually. Can see the match for yourself on cricinfo. People at the ground saying the players aren't even trying and you can't blame them when the opposition has 3 players.

Only reason game is even underway is the national players have received their money, domestic players treated like dirt again.

Surely something has to be done about this. Zimbabwe shouldn't be allowed to play tests anymore and should be fined for treating their domestic cricketers like this.

Sadly I don't see it happening because it would be ICC's responsibility and we all know that they won't do anything about it.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=43242]Dr_Bassim[/MENTION] - I'll try to keep the story as short as possible. You can't really separate the state of Zimbabwe cricket from the political and historical situation there. Zimbabwe is a former British colony, once called Rhodesia. In the 1960s, Britain had a policy of "no independence without majority rule" meaning political power had to be transferred from the white minority to the black majority. The then Prime Minister Ian Smith refused and announced a Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI). Black nationalists took up arms and eventually won the Rhodesian Bush War, and Robert Mugabe was elected in 1980.

However the whites retained their superior economic and political status. After arriving in the late 19th century, whites claimed the vast majority of the country's most arable land. There were attempts to redress the land imbalance after the war, with Britain financing some of the costs of compensating the white farmers, but in 1997 Tony Blair withdrew the funds. In 2000, Mugabe's government sanctioned land invasions of white farms, and many white farmers were killed.

Two cricketers that were white farmers include Heath Streak and Guy Whittall. Whites dominated the national team in the 1980s and 1990s. The ZCB in 2004 started to apply pressure on the coaches and selectors to change the racial composition of the team.

Heath Streak was the captain, and in theory didn't mind having quotas but wanted more clarity and transparency. He preferred official quotas so the white players knew on what basis they were being dropped. He sent demands to the ZCB including 1) an end to unofficial quotas, 2) more stringent qualification standards for the role of selector, and 3) the setting up of a players' association. Otherwise, Streak would resign as captain. The ZCB refused to bow to ultimatums from players and so 20 year old Tatenda Taibu was appointed captain. 13 white players went on strike, demanding Streak's reinstatement. The ZCB sacked the rebels and since then Zimbabwe cricket has been in crisis.

Mugabe's regime since the 1980 elections has become increasingly authoritarian and has presided over a disasterous economy so there's a lack of investment in all levels of Zimbabwe cricket. And the funds that have been given by the ICC have been mismanaged by Mugabe's cronies in the ZCB who are almost $20m in debt. Take for example Harare Sports Club's floodlights. Pylons were built years ago but the lights have not gone up because ZCB cannot afford the cost of getting them installed !

The pay of players at international and domestic cricketers is poor and that's if the players get paid on time - infact today a Logan Cup (Zim's FC competition) match had to be abandoned as the players are on strike over non-payment of salaries. The better cricketers like Brendan Taylor and Kyle Jarvis would rather ply their trade overseas now.

The only light at the end of the tunnel is when old man Mugabe hits the deck. Mugabe meanwhile has announced he's standing for the 2018 elections at the ripe age of 92 !

 

[giri26]

Neil Johnson
Alistair Campbell
Grant Flower
Andy Flower
Guy Whittal
Murray Goodwin
Ray price
Heath Streak
Paul Strang
Andy Blignaugt
TJ Friend
Stuart Carlisle
Doug Marillier

The above was a fantastic Zim squad before the 2003 WC. This squad would give lots of current teams a run for their money currently.

 

[Markhor]

Now to be fair, Heath Streak is now their head coach whilst Tatenda Taibu is the chairman of selectors and they seem genuine about wanting to revive Zimbabwean cricket.

They need far more international fixtures. A former Zimbabwe international described the ZCB's decision to vote against the 2 Tier system as akin to putting a gun in the roof of their mouths and shooting themselves as it'd have guaranteed Zimbabwe regular Test cricket.

The new bilateral structures being proposed by the ICC would be huge as it could provide that and if they pool their television rights with other boards, they should gain more revenues with their games being televised to a larger audience.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

1. Andy Flower

2. Murray Goodwin

3. Heath Streek

4. Henry Olonga

5. Travis Friend

6. Andy Blignaut

7. Alaister Campbell

8. Sean Ervine

9. Grant Flower

10. Neil Johnson

11. Tatenda Taibu

12. Brendon Taylor

13. Kyle Jarvis



Some quality players produced by Zim.


Zim did quite well in Worldcups. They did quite a few upsets in Odi Cricket.



Definitely a big loss for Int Cricket.

 

[ExpressPacer]

West Indies is still not in that bad of a situation and I think the Test that they won vs Pakistan was the start of their revival. Especially with good talent coming through they hopefully will be a strong team despite all the corruption.

Zimbabwe however is another case. I'm extremely disappointed. They could have still been a very strong side despite many white players having stopped playing cricket if they paid the ones that did play.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Now to be fair, Heath Streak is now their head coach whilst Tatenda Taibu is the chairman of selectors and they seem genuine about wanting to revive Zimbabwean cricket.

They need far more international fixtures. A former Zimbabwe international described the ZCB's decision to vote against the 2 Tier system as akin to putting a gun in the roof of their mouths and shooting themselves as it'd have guaranteed Zimbabwe regular Test cricket.

The new bilateral structures being proposed by the ICC would be huge as it could provide that and if they pool their television rights with other boards, they should gain more revenues with their games being televised to a larger audience.

Whoever the coach is is irrelevant. They had Simmons who went on to do wonders with Ireland, sacked. Whatmore = sacked the list could go on and on if I wanted.

Its the admin who are the root cause of the problem, the admin will never change, therefore these problems will always persist, just look at the farce that took place domestically today.

Unless the ICC step in and govern things themselves ala what they're doing in the US, Zimbabwe will forever remain a basket case of epic proportions. If they wanted to revive Zimbabwean cricket they'd pay the players.

 

[Markhor]

Whoever the coach is is irrelevant. They had Simmons who went on to do wonders with Ireland, sacked. Whatmore = sacked the list could go on and on if I wanted.

Its the admin who are the root cause of the problem, the admin will never change, therefore these problems will always persist, just look at the farce that took place domestically today.

Unless the ICC step in and govern things themselves ala what they're doing in the US, Zimbabwe will forever remain a basket case of epic proportions. If they wanted to revive Zimbabwean cricket they'd pay the players.

I mentioned all that in #9 - the point about the coach is just a follow-on from that. I'm not letting the board off the hook.

However its not just the administration but the entire country you must look at. Until Mugabe and his cronies leave so the political and economic situation can stabilise in Zimbabwe - then there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Zimbabwe is broke as a country. There is no money to invest in basic infrastructure let alone sport, and whatever money Mugabe's cronies in the ZCB do receive from the ICC is mismanaged.

One example is Ozias Bvute. This crook played a big part in the 2004 crisis and took over from Vince Hogg who was actually a decent administrator. Bvute holds significant numbers of shares in MetBank. In 2012 a $6m loan from the ICC was given to the ZCB to retire a portion of their debt. It was instead deposited in a non-interest-bearing account with MetBank !

The ICC would take sterner action but the BCCI sees the ZCB as a useful voting ally, and that friendship is repaid with annual tours to Zimbabwe which is the only series that ZCB make any money from.

 

[Last Monetarist]

The ICC would take sterner action but the BCCI sees the ZCB as a useful voting ally, and that friendship is repaid with annual tours to Zimbabwe which is the only series that ZCB make any money from.

Wholeheartedly agree that the ZCB have been a mere pawn in the voting block which supports the BCCI. There is a concern, however, that sporting sanctions on Zimbabwe won't really affect change as there is no real appetite for transformation within the Mugabe regime and they probably don't care a jot for international isolation. The country's economic devastation is testament to such attitudes and sporting decay is probably the least of their concerns. Any ICC support funding that is allowed to drift down to grassroots cricket is probably keeping the game alive in that country, and we don't want a scenario such as Kenya's where the game completely disappears off the social sphere. Nonetheless, the ICC should ideally clamp down on overt corruption within the ZCB administration such as the Bvute affair and not play such a squalid part in enabling it.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

I understand in the middle of 90s and early 200s Zimbabwe had a much stronger team.

Now I know, it was not able to compete at that point with the level of Pakistan or Australia or other teams, but it was still able to hold its own.

Players like Andy Flower, Grant Flower, Paul Strang, Bryan Strang, Heath Streak were really good players who could turn matches around.

Even though by then West Indies were going down, they were signs that Zimbabwe would also follow the same route.

And alas they did.

So do you guys miss those times when a tour to Zimbabwe or West Indies was not just a meh tour?

That you actually had to perform to some level to get a positive result?

Nowadays, just showing up in Zimbabwe or West Indies means a win for the strong teams?

Opinions?

And also why did Zimbabwe fall down?

I understand the Windies were more interested in basketball and all also a couple of islands joined together with no inherent sense of patriotism was bound to lead to their downfall.

But what about Zimbos?

Really miss flower brothers and their team. What a great team that was.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Liked Henry Olonga's hair and his passion.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Only indians know what kind of strong team zimbabwe was in those days. Back in those days winning a test match in zimbabwe was tough for us. We also lost couple of ODI's to them especially can't forget that Douglas Marillier one where he snatched the match from us by playing some unorthodox, never seen before kind of shots infront of the jam packed crowd.

Other one I remember was when Zaheer Khan hit 4 consecutive sixes in the last over of the first inning. That was an odi with white kits. It was played in Kochi I think? We scored 260 something and still lost that match.

 

[PakLFC]

Cricket needs as many strong countries as possible. I sure miss a powerful and changing Zimbabwe side.

 

[GenericBrand]

Only indians know what kind of strong team zimbabwe was in those days. Back in those days winning a test match in zimbabwe was tough for us. We also lost couple of ODI's to them especially can't forget that Douglas Marillier one where he snatched the match from us by playing some unorthodox, never seen before kind of shots infront of the jam packed crowd.

That Zim team has a test series win in Pakistan and BD was their punching bag, so you're not alone.

 

[QalandarFan]

I also have a question on this topic

Why did Brendon Taylor retire at such an young age at just 28/29? He was such a good player for Zimbabwe.

 

[Shafi]

Our board is heading on the same path. Currently we are no. 9 in ODI, 7th in T20 and after whitewash by Australia we will be 7th in test.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

I also have a question on this topic

Why did Brendon Taylor retire at such an young age at just 28/29? He was such a good player for Zimbabwe.

The money at Notts was better than the money in Zimbabwe (he and most of the internationals in Zim do get reasonably decent pay for the record) and England is a far better and more secure place for his wife and family to live in than Zimbabwe.

Plus in his final tour of Bangladesh Mangongo was Zimbabwe's coach and he basically treated Taylor like trash.

 

[Abdullah719]

Our board is heading on the same path. Currently we are no. 9 in ODI

8th.

after whitewash by Australia we will be 7th in test.

Nope.

 

[Thivagar]

Kinda, but Bangladesh is much more stronger now, we got Afghanistan making their way up and associate nations don't get murdered like before.

T20 leagues should get rid of 4 international players quota and allow the likes of Maskadza, Brendon Taylor and so on to play for their teams. T20 leagues should start poaching enough associate and minnow talents to motivate minnow players do well. National minnow teams can thrive of that. T20 leagues need to get stronger and I strongly believe Champions Trophy should be brought back as T20 teams are much stronger. Mumbai Indians vs Karachi Kings should be fun to watch. Tired of boring Test members play each other in boring Test matches where they white wash each other lol.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

No. That was a weak team too with few quality players, compared with current zim side they are lot better though.

We have Bdesh, AFG, Ire, Ned, Nep now who are competitive in atleast 1 format.

Wi=current Pak hockey team, still a decent side but will never probably become a champion or consistent side.

I miss Kenya, team was full of local Africans and had potential.

I hate teams like UAE, Qatar, Canada, Usa, Saudi,etc.