Does world cricket have an obligation to save South Africa cricket?

[Sin Nombre]

Since AB and Alma's retirement and Morkel/Abbott going the Kolpak way, SA cricket has completely plummeted and with reservations/quotas not going away, interest amongst the general population will continue to plummet and they may very quickly fall to a BD-level team.

Does world cricket (ICC? / big 3 / BCCI?) have an obligation to save SA cricket? How would you even do it?

 

[Junaids]

It’s impossible - like Zimbabwe cricket.

Quotas are pointless unless the majority African population actually starts to follow and play the game.

At the moment all that happens is that a tiny number of black boys like the young Rabada, Bavuma and Ngidi get to go to white schools, and consequently play cricket and become undroppable.

They are selected and meet a quota, but to be brutally honest the cricketing success of Rabada and Ngidi and Bavuma is because they enjoyed White Privilege.

 

[ind_win]

India already lent a helpling hand in 1991 after SA were in the lurch for nearly 21 years and in the 1992 tour all Indian got were sledging from the likes of donald, mcmillan, and others. Anyway, off the cricketing field having SA to be in a strong position and not letting them go the WI or ZIM way is very important for the image and expansion of the game.

 

[Manunited18]

To much politics involved, quota system is flawed and the sport is only for the privileged rich upper class

 

[Sin Nombre]

If SA is a lost cause like Zimbabwe, ICC/Big 3/BCCI have an obligation to let T20 cricket into the Olympics.

We cannot have a sport with just 5 competent countries. Cricket at the least needs to be like baseball with one big market and lots of smaller ones.

 

[Savak]

Lol World Cricket didn't do jack **** for Pakistan Cricket in the last 10-11 years, why should South Africa be given any favors?

 

[jnaveen1980]

They produce great talents. They need leadership. Mental conditioning.

 

[Aman]

What's worse is we have Devon Conway who is killing it in domestic cricket here and may turn out to be a good-great international batsmen. He should have been playing for SA.

One of their U19 captains is also playing domestic cricket here and is looking to play for NZ one day.

 

[Aman]

One problem CSA have is finances, they're not able to keep players and more players are opting the Kolpak route.

Really need to look at the revenue distributing model. NZC are making losses and CSA are losing players to county cricket.

 

[Aman]

If SA is a lost cause like Zimbabwe, ICC/Big 3/BCCI have an obligation to let T20 cricket into the Olympics.

We cannot have a sport with just 5 competent countries. Cricket at the least needs to be like baseball with one big market and lots of smaller ones.

If India want to help out out CSA, they need to look at the revenue distribution model and let the smaller countries to get a bigger slice of the pie and that's not going to happen. They're in deep trouble, if our next generation isn't good - cricket is in trouble. You'll be left with 3-4 decent to good teams and the rest there to make up the numbers.

 

[Rana]

You’ve got to help yourself. South Africa are so much more fortunate than Pakistan. But Pakistan survived and it’s continuing to survive

 

[ElRaja]

a lot of first class saf players end up in NZ, im pretty sure if money was the only issue they wouldn't be moving to a test team that pays less (i think) for central contracts.

the problems run far deeper than cricket, south africas economy is in the doldrums and the rands weakness ensures no one feels safe abt future earnings, talented south africans across all professional fields are leaving in droves.

the problem is magnified by cricket because unlike rugby the indigenous population didn't take to the sport. south africa need an economic recovery, and proper monetisation of its leagues, and itll be a competitive loi outfit for considerable time.

tests however are another matter, and if u dont have that core, of a few thousand die hard professional and semi-professional cricketers, you wont produce test cricketers consistently.

 

[sweep_shot]

South Africa seem finished. Players can make better money in various T20 leagues, county cricket etc. There is no longer any real incentive to play for South Africa (other than national pride).

 

[tyron_woodley]

Since AB and Alma's retirement and Morkel/Abbott going the Kolpak way, SA cricket has completely plummeted and with reservations/quotas not going away, interest amongst the general population will continue to plummet and they may very quickly fall to a BD-level team.

Does world cricket (ICC? / big 3 / BCCI?) have an obligation to save SA cricket? How would you even do it?

No. they will be fine. Every team goes through these phases.

 

[Aman]

a lot of first class saf players end up in NZ, im pretty sure if money was the only issue they wouldn't be moving to a test team that pays less (i think) for central contracts.

the problems run far deeper than cricket, south africas economy is in the doldrums and the rands weakness ensures no one feels safe abt future earnings, talented south africans across all professional fields are leaving in droves.

the problem is magnified by cricket because unlike rugby the indigenous population didn't take to the sport. south africa need an economic recovery, and proper monetisation of its leagues, and itll be a competitive loi outfit for considerable time.

tests however are another matter, and if u dont have that core, of a few thousand die hard professional and semi-professional cricketers, you wont produce test cricketers consistently.

Yes, the U19 captain left because of quota and lack of opportunities. It's tough because it's not the same supporting a player who was born here or came through the NZ system.

 

[Titan24]

ICC or world cricket rarely does anything for any cricketing nation rather I dont remember them helping any team.

There was never any point of quota system in my opinion which only made sense if there were countless players who were really good and werent given oppurtunities which wasnt the case as nobody can pin point a handful domestic cricketers in the last two decades who deserved to play for SA but didnt due to their color.

Ntini was a good bowler and he got his break and same is the case with Rabada who is a world class bowler, I dont think they would have been ignored either ways. At the same time Alviro Pietersen, Ashwell Prince were pretty good batsmen and were topping the domestic charts and got their break. So there was no point on changing the policies and making it difficult for national team to form a team and for certain players to get selected because of quota.

In selection panel CSA can have decent mixture of selectors to ensure there is no discrimination at all but forcing national team to have quota policy was never on. It has costed SA the services of Kyle Abbot, Riley Russouw, Collin Ingram, Dane Oliver and many more but, more than that it has effected the morale of the team and the players.

That was the main issue which has led to SA struggling along with obviously players retiring and rebuilding phase. SA needs to realize cricket is a tough sport and enforcing quota system makes it difficult for team to consistently compete, maintain morale and makes it impossible for certain players to see much future.

Along with that obviously SA needs to provide better financial security to its top talent. With brexit there wont be more Kolpak deals but still CSA needs to get rid of quota system rather have good mixture of selectors and promote cricket outside the major regions.

 

[Balthazar]

I wonder why white nations have this Kolpak system. Is there any particular reason for that? Don't they have enough participation on their own?

As to answer the OP, no we shouldn't give special treatment to any teams. But ICC can change it's few rules by giving hosting rights to world tournaments outside Big 3.

 

[Gilly]

I wonder why white nations have this Kolpak system. Is there any particular reason for that? Don't they have enough participation on their own?

As to answer the OP, no we shouldn't give special treatment to any teams. But ICC can change it's few rules by giving hosting rights to world tournaments outside Big 3.

Which white countries have Kolpak system?

 

[jiduguravindra]

South Africa seem finished. Players can make better money in various T20 leagues, county cricket etc. There is no longer any real incentive to play for South Africa (other than national pride).

National pride, isn't it enough to play, the one which matters the most???

 

[Sin Nombre]

National pride, isn't it enough to play, the one which matters the most???

National pride doesn't pay for you or your family.

Also, fans are fickle and will boo you quite quickly.

And patriotism means little in a globalized world.

 

[sweep_shot]

National pride, isn't it enough to play, the one which matters the most???

In an ideal world, national pride should be the biggest motivation. But, we don't live in an ideal world and money is generally the bigger motivation.

These are professional athletes and they want to maximize their earnings. Kolpak gives them a better future.

It is unfair for South Africa but it is what it is.

 

[jiduguravindra]

National pride doesn't pay for you or your family.

Also, fans are fickle and will boo you quite quickly.

And patriotism means little in a globalized world.

They are not playing for free, these boards actually paid decent enough for them. Tell me if u want so much money or Great idol for younger kids having pics of u in their bedrooms.

 

[jiduguravindra]

In an ideal world, national pride should be the biggest motivation. But, we don't live in an ideal world and money is generally the bigger motivation.

These are professional athletes and they want to maximize their earnings. Kolpak gives them a better future.

It is unfair for South Africa but it is what it is.

If they are running for money then sport isn't the right profession for that where nation is involved.

 

[Realromeo]

Sri Lanka is at a worse place. Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and South Africa are all heading downwards. Thought Bangladesh would be a powerhouse by now but hasn't goten there yet. With Mushi, Shakib and Tamim getting older I don't know where Bangladesh will be. I thought Litton, Sarkar and few others were supposed to be sold consistent players, but hasn't been the same.

 

[Aman]

Sri Lanka is at a worse place. Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and South Africa are all heading downwards. Thought Bangladesh would be a powerhouse by now but hasn't goten there yet. With Mushi, Shakib and Tamim getting older I don't know where Bangladesh will be. I thought Litton, Sarkar and few others were supposed to be sold consistent players, but hasn't been the same.

I swear it feels like cricket in SL is dead, there's no SL posters on here anymore and they're starting to follow in different sports.

 

[tyron_woodley]

National pride, isn't it enough to play, the one which matters the most???

some players would gladly swap their national contracts for a long term IPL contract.

 

[Sin Nombre]

They are not playing for free, these boards actually paid decent enough for them. Tell me if u want so much money or Great idol for younger kids having pics of u in their bedrooms.

$70-80k annually is not a lot of money.

CSA has no sponsors and the rand has completely tanked.

An athlete has a very short career, and the end of the career is only one major injury away.

 

[Sin Nombre]

I swear it feels like cricket in SL is dead, there's no SL posters on here anymore and they're starting to follow in different sports.

SL has no other sports.

Do people from SL actually post on internet forums?

 

[Sin Nombre]

If India want to help out out CSA, they need to look at the revenue distribution model and let the smaller countries to get a bigger slice of the pie and that's not going to happen. They're in deep trouble, if our next generation isn't good - cricket is in trouble. You'll be left with 3-4 decent to good teams and the rest there to make up the numbers.

Begging for alms from India is not a sustainable way to solve the systematic ills ailing South African cricket.

I think one solution that BCCI and some of the smaller countries would like and would help in building local interest up again would be to carve out another month in the calendar for IPL (say mid-Sep to mid-Oct) and have it be an international leg month of IPL (and rotate between the likes of SA, NZ, SL - countries without a viable domestic league).

 

[Balthazar]

Which white countries have Kolpak system?

Okay. I've just read about it and so it's only applicable to EU countries. It's just confusing to see how many overseas born players representing England and other national teams.

 

[Aman]

Begging for alms from India is not a sustainable way to solve the systematic ills ailing South African cricket.

I think one solution that BCCI and some of the smaller countries would like and would help in building local interest up again would be to carve out another month in the calendar for IPL (say mid-Sep to mid-Oct) and have it be an international leg month of IPL (and rotate between the likes of SA, NZ, SL - countries without a viable domestic league).

Or they could make IPL into a global league and bring in a couple of NZ, SA and SL teams?

Would be way better than what they have now and would drum up interest.

 

[AFM]

The quota system doesn’t help. Players should be selected on merit alone.

 

[Pakistanian]

They'll be fine.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol World Cricket didn't do jack **** for Pakistan Cricket in the last 10-11 years, why should South Africa be given any favors?

What help did you expect from world cricket when Pakistan was unsafe to tour for many years? Risk their lives?

Not that I think South Africa deserve any help, but their situation is completely different.

 

[Robert]

Did world cricket have an obligation to save British cricket in 1999 when it was bottom of the table? No, of course not.

 

[Aman]

Did world cricket have an obligation to save British cricket in 1999 when it was bottom of the table? No, of course not.

That was never a question because nobody likes England

 

[Nikhil_cric]

They need to help themselves first. They play rubbish like bavuma at 5 when they can easily play someone better. This guy averages 31 after nearly 40 matches and they may be forced to play him no matter what.

 

[Rana]

Maybe they need a national vote on the quota system. It seems pretty clear now that blacks and whites+ other ethnicities all seem to love each other in South Africa. Things have come a long way since the apartheid. I’m sure Black South Africans would love to support a majority white South African team as long as it’s the strongest available

 

[Swashbuckler]

They have per capita income multiple times more than us South Asian countries, much higher quality of life, sporting infrastructure several decades ahead of us, rich sporting/fitness tradition and culture etc. We first need to help ourselves, let them seek help from England and Australia.

 

[James]

No. Only South Africa can save South Africa.

 

[Markhor]

South Africa need to sort their economy out. They need an alternative to ANC.

 

[coy0607]

given that there are only 5-7 competitive cricket playing nations at any given point - yes, the ICC should what it can to 'save' whomever they can

 

[Robert]

That was never a question because nobody likes England

 

[Lonewarrior]

the only obligation ICC ha is to make money and only interest for Big 3 ....

 

[Hasan123]

South Africa will come through this. They have lost a lot of senior players and are trying to make changes off the pitch. They will take time to be resolved.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Definitely.

Cricket world must support South Africa as much as possible in their time of trouble.

Remember we are good today because years and years of playing against quality South African team helped us become better at our craft.

We owe it to South Africa as a responsible and fair cricket community.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Bump.

Cutting down on Test cricket , focussing on white ball and SA20, investing heavily in analytics and a loosening up of the transformation targets for ICC events seems to have helped CSA quite a bit.

 

[Kianig89]

They are the boot likcers of BCCI, they've cut down Test cricket with teams like SL and Pak & NZ , add to it for these tours their top players skip it due to IPL. Also the mini IPL that is SAt20 benefits BCCI more than CSA , but the latter is happy with whatever dimes they are offered

 

[Bhaijaan]

The resurgence of South African team post ABD, Du Pleasis, Amla, Steyn era has been very good to see.

They made it to the WT20 final and almost won it, made it to the WC 2024 semi final.

In tests, they’re 13-2 at home since December 2020 with the only two defeats being to Bharat.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

They are the boot likcers of BCCI, they've cut down Test cricket with teams like SL and Pak & NZ , add to it for these tours their top players skip it due to IPL. Also the mini IPL that is SAt20 benefits BCCI more than CSA , but the latter is happy with whatever dimes they are offered

How does SA 20 benefit BCCI? And how is it bootlicking to cut down on Test cricket ?

 

[Kianig89]

How does SA 20 benefit BCCI? And how is it bootlicking to cut down on Test cricket ?

With IPL owners involved in SAt20 , BCCI can bend them 90° to 360° when req. ,also it gives BCCI more space for IPL calendar. SA being a marquee team is cutting down on Test cricket serves BCCI good that India cannot have any other competitor.

 

[Kianig89]

How does SA 20 benefit BCCI? And how is it bootlicking to cut down on Test cricket ?

With IPL owners involved in SAt20 , BCCI can bend them 90° to 360° when req. ,also it gives BCCI more space for IPL calendar. SA being a marquee team is cutting down on Test cricket serves BCCI good that India cannot have any other competitor.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bump.

Cutting down on Test cricket , focussing on white ball and SA20, investing heavily in analytics and a loosening up of the transformation targets for ICC events seems to have helped CSA quite a bit.

It's a shame they cut down on test cricket because with the talent and sporting heritage within their white citizens they can be competitive in this area. Of course the transformation targets played a part but they could have played more t20 cricket with black players to make up for it.

Overall they have still done well and could potentially be in the WTC final. Not bad output despite not prioritizing tests.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

People on this thread seem to make way too much of the quota system. I think one person said something about it and then the others just echoed his opinion, without even fully understanding what it entails.

The transformation targets or the 'quota system' requires the South African national men's cricket team to include an average of six players of color over the course of a season, with at least two being black African. Importantly, this requirement is not for every game but is calculated as an average across all matches, providing selectors with flexibility.

On the whole, the initiative is a positive step toward addressing historical inequalities in the sport in South Africa. It aims to increase the participation of black South Africans in cricket and bridge the gap in a sport that has traditionally been dominated by white South Africans. South Africa has a nearly 85% black African population, and yet the only black South African of note in the side is Kagiso Rabada. It's very easy to say, oh the blacks aren't good enough in this sport. But saying so would be quite ignorant as it ignores the centuries of racism, apartheid, and systemic exclusion black South Africans have endured, which has created divides at all levels of society, most notably on a socio-economic level.

Even today, white South Africans benefit from access to prestigious schools that many black families cannot afford. These schools not only provide superior resources but also serve as talent pipelines, identifying promising players at a young age and nurturing them for the future. In many ways, this creates a parallel system that reinforces and perpetuates the existing divide.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Like Pakistan, New Zealand, and Sri Lanka, South Africa's biggest challenges are financial instability and getting people to care about Test cricket. Because Rugby and Football are far bigger sports in South Africa. How can they get people interested in test cricket when 85% of the population sees only one, maybe two, players in the team who look like them?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Who would have thought that someone who was called a quota pick will become SA’s first captain to take them into WTC finals and this is despite SA sending their C team to Nz coz domestic t20 league.

Bavuma , Rabada and Maharaj are three of their most important players in test cricket.