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Ed Hussain and Quilliam

Robert

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I was chatting to a British Muslim on Facebook, regarding an Islamophobic attack on a bus.

The discussion turned to Tommy of the EDL, then to the Quilliam Foundation and I mentioned that I read Ed Hussain's book. My correspondent was scathing of Mr Hussain and said that neither he nor Quilliam have credibility within the British Muslim community.

Is it because Quilliam may be focusing more on extremist nationalist white groups instead of counter-extremism within the Muslim community?

Any comments you make may enlighten me....
 
I don't really know much about Quilliam or what they do, but my impression is that they are following and promoting a similar agenda that the government would like to project. I wasn't aware that they are focusing on white nationalist groups, they focus on radical Islamic groups as far as I know. It might be both though since they are cut from the same cloth.
 
I don't really know much about Quilliam or what they do, but my impression is that they are following and promoting a similar agenda that the government would like to project. I wasn't aware that they are focusing on white nationalist groups, they focus on radical Islamic groups as far as I know. It might be both though since they are cut from the same cloth.

Well, there was the well-publicised dialogue between Tommy Robinson and Maajid Nawaz which resulted in Tommy leaving the EDL.
 
Well, there was the well-publicised dialogue between Tommy Robinson and Maajid Nawaz which resulted in Tommy leaving the EDL.

I have been reading about Cameron's plans to reform how Islam is preached in Britain with the introduction of govt approved Imams and similar initiatives, and he did mention that far right groups that encourage Islamophobia would be cracked down on as well. That is the thing when you start putting curbs on free speech, it ends up affecting everyone in the end. I'm not saying it's a bad thing either, that's just an observation.
 
I have been reading about Cameron's plans to reform how Islam is preached in Britain with the introduction of govt approved Imams and similar initiatives, and he did mention that far right groups that encourage Islamophobia would be cracked down on as well. That is the thing when you start putting curbs on free speech, it ends up affecting everyone in the end. I'm not saying it's a bad thing either, that's just an observation.

Well, we already have the Equality Act 2010 "hate speech" laws - it is a question of applying them.

I agree that young men (and women) see narrative and if they feel disenfranchised they may well drift into an ultra-nationalist or Islamist group.

Interestingly, the Germans government thinks that people are more likely to leave radical groups if they find some other source of narrative - perhaps becoming a parent, or getting a decent job - than if they are persuaded by counter-argument.
 
I think the extremism for every religion is bad the bayst behavior of white people against the Muslim in the Europe is not good it Govt should take act on this..
 
I was chatting to a British Muslim on Facebook, regarding an Islamophobic attack on a bus.

The discussion turned to Tommy of the EDL, then to the Quilliam Foundation and I mentioned that I read Ed Hussain's book. My correspondent was scathing of Mr Hussain and said that neither he nor Quilliam have credibility within the British Muslim community.

Is it because Quilliam may be focusing more on extremist nationalist white groups instead of counter-extremism within the Muslim community?

Any comments you make may enlighten me....

My biggest issue is their hijacking of the Abdullah quilliam name who was a Muslim in 1887 , built a mosque in Liverpool and had strong links to the Ottomans
 
I have been reading about Cameron's plans to reform how Islam is preached in Britain with the introduction of govt approved Imams and similar initiatives, and he did mention that far right groups that encourage Islamophobia would be cracked down on as well. That is the thing when you start putting curbs on free speech, it ends up affecting everyone in the end. I'm not saying it's a bad thing either, that's just an observation.

That sounds like an amazing plan.

They need to implement that in Pakistan.
 
Quilliam are funded by right wing anti Muslim extremists. They have links to gatestone institute and the hjs..they are essentially modern mir jaffers hated and despised by the Muslim community.
 
Quilliam is not representing Muslims of UK they r funded by brit government and they talk rubbish demonising top Muslim leaders of UK they r against sunnah as well

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
I really admire Maajid Nawaz. One of the few people who actually understands the situation. There's a lot of noise out there with far-right groups and muslim apologists and the apologetic left and his voice is the only one of reason in all that gibberish.
 
I really admire Maajid Nawaz. One of the few people who actually understands the situation. There's a lot of noise out there with far-right groups and muslim apologists and the apologetic left and his voice is the only one of reason in all that gibberish.

your being sarcastic arent you?
 
I really admire Maajid Nawaz. One of the few people who actually understands the situation. There's a lot of noise out there with far-right groups and muslim apologists and the apologetic left and his voice is the only one of reason in all that gibberish.

lol. He understands nothing . Quilliam was part of the prevent stategy by the government, he was just making money from governmetn funding. He doesn't care about any type of extremisim, it's just an act.

He claims to be a 'moderate' Muslim but doesn't even know what a moderate or Muslim is.

He was disgraced not long ago. No Muslim in the UK takes this numpty seriously now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...trip-club-night-temptation-caught-camera.html
 
lol. He understands nothing . Quilliam was part of the prevent stategy by the government, he was just making money from governmetn funding. He doesn't care about any type of extremisim, it's just an act.

He claims to be a 'moderate' Muslim but doesn't even know what a moderate or Muslim is.

He was disgraced not long ago. No Muslim in the UK takes this numpty seriously now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...trip-club-night-temptation-caught-camera.html

what does the strip club have to do with anything?

I've heard Maajid talk on a multitude of subjects and his voice is often the only voice of reason
 
I still don't understand the negativity. They seem highly educated, sensible and articulate to me. The sort of people I could sit down for a meal and a heavyweight conversation on politics and faith with.

What is wrong with receiving UK Gov finding? The NHS is funded that way too.

Could someone explain the lack of credibility without using rhetoric about rubbish and numpties?
 
Govt. sponsored Imams. Bet they feel politically neutral and real Imams as opposed to being Govt. puppets :))) at guys who think so.
 
Muslims are not that fickle it's pretty easy to see through all this 'moderate muslim' label.
 
I really admire Maajid Nawaz. One of the few people who actually understands the situation. There's a lot of noise out there with far-right groups and muslim apologists and the apologetic left and his voice is the only one of reason in all that gibberish.

I'm not sure about that, he just seems happy to join in the Islamophobic hysteria for his own purposes and it certainly helps book sales. If he can contribute to some genuine solutions rather than scaremongering then all power to him. What has he done so far?
 
I don't get this 'moderate Muslim' and 'modernist' outlook on Islam. It looks like doing a Christianity and will result in people leaving Islam as they are leaving Christianity.
 
I'm not sure about that, he just seems happy to join in the Islamophobic hysteria for his own purposes and it certainly helps book sales. If he can contribute to some genuine solutions rather than scaremongering then all power to him. What has he done so far?

The word islamophobia and accusations of scaremongering get thrown around a lot without ever really being defined or elaborated on.

There's a stark difference between admitting a problem and carrying out anti-islam rallies.
 
Well from what I've seen he's not saying that much different to the anti-Islam rallies.

He

- condemned the Gaza blockade
- supports the right of women to wear the burqa in France
- opposes the banning of Islamist organisations which do not advocate violence
 
The Prevent strategy:

- responds to the ideological challenge we face from terrorism and aspects of extremism, and the threat we face from those who promote these views
- provides practical help to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism and ensure they are given appropriate advice and support
- works with a wide range of sectors (including education, criminal justice, faith, charities, online and health) where there are risks of radicalisation that we need to deal with

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2010-to-2015-government-policy-counter-terrorism/2010-to-2015-government-policy-counter-terrorism

What's bad about that? :20:
 
Ed Hussains book was a lot of sensationalized drivel. It pretty much tells the story of a youth who briefly flirted with 'radical' ideas and then gave it up when he got a bit older.

No different to many of us ( muslims and non-muslims) who go to university and want to change the world by taking up causes such as 'socialism', 'environmentalism' or any other ism. His brief flirtation with 'Islamism' came about as he joined the group Hizb ut Tahrir during his student days.

Most muslims see the Hizb as nothing more than a fringe nuisance group whose reach doesn't extend beyond putting up posters and handing out leaflets. One needs to give up their critical faculties to believe their facile arguments. Even on this site a few Hizb members who joined were shouted down by the majority of Muslim posters and quickly labelled the Khalifa bros.

Ed's journey however is a bit different to the 'radical' journey that most of us go through in our student days in that he hasn't given up on his extremism. He has merely shifted from pretending to be an extremist Muslim to becoming an extremist government stooge. He still uses the divisive 'us against them' rhetoric that he used in his Hizb Ut Tahrir days but the audience and targets are now different.

Interestingly he left the Hizb in the 90s and decided to write an acclaimed book about 'Islamism' in 2005 when the nature of islamism had changed dramatically post 9/11. What links can we draw between the leafleting Hizb activists of the 90's and the post 9/11 Islamists recruiting for AQ/ISIS etc?

The answer is that there is no link or relation apart from giving the media a 'Muslim' who has seen the light and uneducated newspaper pundits someone they can quote the dangers of 'Islamism' from who is conveniently a muslim so their Islamophobia is kept hidden. It just confirms their prejudices about Islam and lets Ed and Majid make a few bucks.

The vast majority of British Muslims do not have extremist tendencies. The vast majority of us do not join organisations like HUT. We don't need to listen to former extremists tell their story as its a path that most of us have chosen not to follow and any potential extremists would see them as mouth pieces of the government so won't take them seriously anyway.

So while Ed, Majid and co feel the need to tweet pictures of the Prophet (saw), get jobs with Tony Blair and visit lapdancers as penance for their former extremism it is a journey that most us cannot relate to and have no need to listen to.

Unlike these guys our worlds are not black and white, we don't need to either embrace Islamic extremism or embrace extreme rejections of multiculturalism. There is a big shade of grey between these two positions that most British Muslims reside in.
 
what does the strip club have to do with anything?

I've heard Maajid talk on a multitude of subjects and his voice is often the only voice of reason

He claims to be the voice of moderate Muslims. He claims to be rehabilitated extremist.

Muslims will not take anyone seriously who claims to be the ideal role model for Muslims but is exposed visiting strip clubs.

I'm surprised I had to spell this out to you.
 
The Prevent strategy:

- responds to the ideological challenge we face from terrorism and aspects of extremism, and the threat we face from those who promote these views
- provides practical help to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism and ensure they are given appropriate advice and support
- works with a wide range of sectors (including education, criminal justice, faith, charities, online and health) where there are risks of radicalisation that we need to deal with

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2010-to-2015-government-policy-counter-terrorism/2010-to-2015-government-policy-counter-terrorism

What's bad about that? :20:

It doesn't really address the main reason, foreign policy.

It's a government created think tank to back their propaganda so their foreign policy continues without too much opposition.
 
It doesn't really address the main reason, foreign policy.

It's a government created think tank to back their propaganda so their foreign policy continues without too much opposition.

But violent Islamist groups operate in Muslim countries too, so UK foreign policy cannot be the only reason for them. It would appear that in many places in the world, the greatest threat to a Muslim life is a Muslim with different beliefs.

I'm with Quilliam on this. I don't believe the neocons who say that Islamofascism arises naturally from Islam, and I don't believe that these groups are merely a response to UK / NATO foreign policy either.
 
The vast majority of British Muslims do not have extremist tendencies. The vast majority of us do not join organisations like HUT. We don't need to listen to former extremists tell their story as its a path that most of us have chosen not to follow and any potential extremists would see them as mouth pieces of the government so won't take them seriously anyway.

Aha! Now at last it makes sense! Thank you, DV.
 
But violent Islamist groups operate in Muslim countries too, so UK foreign policy cannot be the only reason for them. It would appear that in many places in the world, the greatest threat to a Muslim life is a Muslim with different beliefs.

I'm with Quilliam on this. I don't believe the neocons who say that Islamofascism arises naturally from Islam, and I don't believe that these groups are merely a response to UK / NATO foreign policy either.

Pakistan is probably the best example. Before 911 there were no suicide bombings in Pakistan, since the invasion of Afghanistan Pakistan has suffered more than any other nation. This is has nothing to do with some Muslims one day deciding to kill others who don't share the same belief, which is essentially what Quilliam wants people to believe. It's also not a fact most Muslims are killed by other Muslims, a lame narrative to help the war of terror to progress.

Head of MI5 Baroness Manningham-Buller presented evidence to say the london bombings of 2005 was a cause of the Iraq War. The western nations have been invading, dividing, imposing sanctions, killing, supporting despot rulers for their own benefit for the last 100 in Muslim majority countries. If you think some people won't get radicalised and turn to violence due to this, you're living in cuckoo land.

You also have to take into account the proxy wars which are being fought. It's no longer a secret the US is funding and supporting terrorists in Syria as they have done in previously in other parts of the world.

To simplify this by saying it's some sort of ideology which has caused this , is an insult to peoples intelligence. You are smarter than this Robert.
 
He claims to be the voice of moderate Muslims. He claims to be rehabilitated extremist.

Muslims will not take anyone seriously who claims to be the ideal role model for Muslims but is exposed visiting strip clubs.

I'm surprised I had to spell this out to you.

That has nothing to do with my point about him talking sense.

I don't really care what he believes in, not really my concern.
 
Pakistan is probably the best example. Before 911 there were no suicide bombings in Pakistan, since the invasion of Afghanistan Pakistan has suffered more than any other nation. This is has nothing to do with some Muslims one day deciding to kill others who don't share the same belief, which is essentially what Quilliam wants people to believe. It's also not a fact most Muslims are killed by other Muslims, a lame narrative to help the war of terror to progress.

Head of MI5 Baroness Manningham-Buller presented evidence to say the london bombings of 2005 was a cause of the Iraq War. The western nations have been invading, dividing, imposing sanctions, killing, supporting despot rulers for their own benefit for the last 100 in Muslim majority countries. If you think some people won't get radicalised and turn to violence due to this, you're living in cuckoo land.

You also have to take into account the proxy wars which are being fought. It's no longer a secret the US is funding and supporting terrorists in Syria as they have done in previously in other parts of the world.

To simplify this by saying it's some sort of ideology which has caused this , is an insult to peoples intelligence. You are smarter than this Robert.

But Quilliam are not making that simplification and neither am I. There is an ideology - it is called Wahhabism. I argue that the first shot fired in what amounts to WW3 was the assasination of Anwar Sadat by Wahhabists in 1980.

Of course Western interference in the MidEast and other "Muslim lands" is going to drive impressionable young men seeking narrative into the arms of the Wahhabists.


Try to think more plurally instead of in black-and-white binary terms. See KK, Quilliam (and I) don't accept this "West is responsible for everything bad" argument which you constantly trot out. Of course the West has done bad things. But as just one counter-example, I don't think they were responsible for the waves of bombings in Indian cities.

I very much doubt that the Head of MI5 presented evidence that events in 2005 were the cause of events in 2003.

And if you don't think the biggest threat to a Muslim is another type of Muslim, check out the death toll in Syria, and in Libya prior to the NATO airstrikes.
 
Great post from DV, cleans up the issue for me.
 
Great post from DV, cleans up the issue for me.

I concur, was about to post the same thing. The problem I have with Ed Hussain and Majid Nawaz is they are sensationalising and perpetuating the wrong image of Muslims, which is not dissimilar to Anjem Choudhary's version, no surprise really since they studied from the same teacher. If I was a non-Muslim watching these guys giving interviews on tv I would just be more scared of Muslims than ever and imagining that every Muslim household is grooming future terrorists. If that were the case then I think it could be justified to create this image, but it's not, and as DV says, it just perpetuates the us and them syndrome.

Ed Hussain and Nawaz would be doing more for de-radicalising of Muslims by going into those circles he used to hang about in and taking his old friends out for a cup of coffee and offering some sensible advice. They are in a great position to do it as they actually know the people who are from those circles. But then of course that's not as lucrative as the book deal so I can understand why they chose that path.
 
Anyway, what I have learned is that Ed and Majid lack credibility with Brit-Muslims because

1. they are seen as moral hypocrites

2. they are seen as too close to HM Gov

Okay. I get it now.
 
Anyway, what I have learned is that Ed and Majid lack credibility with Brit-Muslims because

1. they are seen as moral hypocrites

2. they are seen as too close to HM Gov

Okay. I get it now.

I don't really think there's anything wrong with being close to HM govt, it is our govt as well after all. The important thing is that something useful and progressive comes out of it rather than just news headlines and scaremongering. If Quilliam can point to results like bringing Tommy Robinson out of EDL or a similar success with any potential terrorist recruits then more power to them.
 
Ed Hussains book was a lot of sensationalized drivel. It pretty much tells the story of a youth who briefly flirted with 'radical' ideas and then gave it up when he got a bit older.

No different to many of us ( muslims and non-muslims) who go to university and want to change the world by taking up causes such as 'socialism', 'environmentalism' or any other ism. His brief flirtation with 'Islamism' came about as he joined the group Hizb ut Tahrir during his student days.

Most muslims see the Hizb as nothing more than a fringe nuisance group whose reach doesn't extend beyond putting up posters and handing out leaflets. One needs to give up their critical faculties to believe their facile arguments. Even on this site a few Hizb members who joined were shouted down by the majority of Muslim posters and quickly labelled the Khalifa bros.

Ed's journey however is a bit different to the 'radical' journey that most of us go through in our student days in that he hasn't given up on his extremism. He has merely shifted from pretending to be an extremist Muslim to becoming an extremist government stooge. He still uses the divisive 'us against them' rhetoric that he used in his Hizb Ut Tahrir days but the audience and targets are now different.

Interestingly he left the Hizb in the 90s and decided to write an acclaimed book about 'Islamism' in 2005 when the nature of islamism had changed dramatically post 9/11. What links can we draw between the leafleting Hizb activists of the 90's and the post 9/11 Islamists recruiting for AQ/ISIS etc?

The answer is that there is no link or relation apart from giving the media a 'Muslim' who has seen the light and uneducated newspaper pundits someone they can quote the dangers of 'Islamism' from who is conveniently a muslim so their Islamophobia is kept hidden. It just confirms their prejudices about Islam and lets Ed and Majid make a few bucks.

The vast majority of British Muslims do not have extremist tendencies. The vast majority of us do not join organisations like HUT. We don't need to listen to former extremists tell their story as its a path that most of us have chosen not to follow and any potential extremists would see them as mouth pieces of the government so won't take them seriously anyway.

So while Ed, Majid and co feel the need to tweet pictures of the Prophet (saw), get jobs with Tony Blair and visit lapdancers as penance for their former extremism it is a journey that most us cannot relate to and have no need to listen to.

Unlike these guys our worlds are not black and white, we don't need to either embrace Islamic extremism or embrace extreme rejections of multiculturalism. There is a big shade of grey between these two positions that most British Muslims reside in.
Excellent post. Sums it up perfectly.
 
Ed Hussains book was a lot of sensationalized drivel. It pretty much tells the story of a youth who briefly flirted with 'radical' ideas and then gave it up when he got a bit older.

No different to many of us ( muslims and non-muslims) who go to university and want to change the world by taking up causes such as 'socialism', 'environmentalism' or any other ism. His brief flirtation with 'Islamism' came about as he joined the group Hizb ut Tahrir during his student days.

Most muslims see the Hizb as nothing more than a fringe nuisance group whose reach doesn't extend beyond putting up posters and handing out leaflets. One needs to give up their critical faculties to believe their facile arguments. Even on this site a few Hizb members who joined were shouted down by the majority of Muslim posters and quickly labelled the Khalifa bros.

Ed's journey however is a bit different to the 'radical' journey that most of us go through in our student days in that he hasn't given up on his extremism. He has merely shifted from pretending to be an extremist Muslim to becoming an extremist government stooge. He still uses the divisive 'us against them' rhetoric that he used in his Hizb Ut Tahrir days but the audience and targets are now different.

Interestingly he left the Hizb in the 90s and decided to write an acclaimed book about 'Islamism' in 2005 when the nature of islamism had changed dramatically post 9/11. What links can we draw between the leafleting Hizb activists of the 90's and the post 9/11 Islamists recruiting for AQ/ISIS etc?

The answer is that there is no link or relation apart from giving the media a 'Muslim' who has seen the light and uneducated newspaper pundits someone they can quote the dangers of 'Islamism' from who is conveniently a muslim so their Islamophobia is kept hidden. It just confirms their prejudices about Islam and lets Ed and Majid make a few bucks.

The vast majority of British Muslims do not have extremist tendencies. The vast majority of us do not join organisations like HUT. We don't need to listen to former extremists tell their story as its a path that most of us have chosen not to follow and any potential extremists would see them as mouth pieces of the government so won't take them seriously anyway.

So while Ed, Majid and co feel the need to tweet pictures of the Prophet (saw), get jobs with Tony Blair and visit lapdancers as penance for their former extremism it is a journey that most us cannot relate to and have no need to listen to.

Unlike these guys our worlds are not black and white, we don't need to either embrace Islamic extremism or embrace extreme rejections of multiculturalism. There is a big shade of grey between these two positions that most British Muslims reside in.


Your last two paragraphs are what groups like MPAC and MEND will not agree with, they believe The Muslim demographic should be one bloc in which it will be more powerful and obviously give their full support to whichever party or whichever candidate in a constituency they want to win
I agree with you in that the Muslim vote or the Muslim opinion is much more varied than that and has many more shades of grey but it doesn't give the Muslim population the citizen khan or the MDL that is the general wish of many

Ed Hussain or Sara Khan are no different to zaki badawi if their opinions are seen in full and contrasted , a corrupted version of Islam is one that will continue to be denied by traditionalists for obvious reasons
 
But Quilliam are not making that simplification and neither am I. There is an ideology - it is called Wahhabism. I argue that the first shot fired in what amounts to WW3 was the assasination of Anwar Sadat by Wahhabists in 1980.

Of course Western interference in the MidEast and other "Muslim lands" is going to drive impressionable young men seeking narrative into the arms of the Wahhabists.

This ideology is a broad one, also known as Salafism or seen a form of literal ism. It's not right to say all or most people who follow this ideology or something similar to it will advocate acts of terrorism, killing of innocent people. Many don't even believe in a self proclaimed Islamic State. There are some who follow this school of thought who will have ideas of conquest and self rule through any means, believing they are right. But the leaders of almost all groups in the middle east are criminals or paid mercenaries by states. Saudia Arabia is indeed one of these where and it is the main exporter of what you call the dangerous ideology. You can't miss this crucial point because it's known who put them into power and who has been protecting them ever since.


Try to think more plurally instead of in black-and-white binary terms. See KK, Quilliam (and I) don't accept this "West is responsible for everything bad" argument which you constantly trot out. Of course the West has done bad things. But as just one counter-example, I don't think they were responsible for the waves of bombings in Indian cities.

I very much doubt that the Head of MI5 presented evidence that events in 2005 were the cause of events in 2003.

And if you don't think the biggest threat to a Muslim is another type of Muslim, check out the death toll in Syria, and in Libya prior to the NATO airstrikes.

Their foriegn policy towards the middle east since WW1 has been wrong and is responsible for pretty much all the mess we see now.Of course there are others to take the blame but this is the primary root cause of what we see now.

The Indian cities is just strawman, nothing to do with this subject.

She acknowledges there was a threat there previously but stresses the actions of 2003 """""The invasion of Iraq "substantially" increased the terrorist threat to the UK, the former head of MI5 has said.
Giving evidence to the Iraq inquiry, Baroness Manningham-Buller said the action had radicalised "a few among a generation".
As a result, she said she was not "surprised" that UK nationals were involved in the 7/7 bombings in London."""""

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10693001

Libya was a manufactured revolution to over throw Gaddafi, the same groups then turned to Syria. Before this both nations were stable and relatively peaceful. Funding groups and intervening in these countries hasn't just turned the countries into hell holes, it was and is a deliberate effort to destroy them.

Russia and other world nations can see and so can the people which is why you are seeing liberal anti war leaders springing up all over western nations. I hope you will be voting for Corbyn Robert. :)
 
This ideology is a broad one, also known as Salafism or seen a form of literal ism. It's not right to say all or most people who follow this ideology or something similar to it will advocate acts of terrorism, killing of innocent people. Many don't even believe in a self proclaimed Islamic State. There are some who follow this school of thought who will have ideas of conquest and self rule through any means, believing they are right. But the leaders of almost all groups in the middle east are criminals or paid mercenaries by states. Saudia Arabia is indeed one of these where and it is the main exporter of what you call the dangerous ideology. You can't miss this crucial point because it's known who put them into power and who has been protecting them ever since.

OK, I don't accept the radicalisation conveyor belt theory either (and neither do Quilliam).

I also accept that Muslims have allowed themselves to be ruled by despots in many lands. If I felt that the literalists were actual liberators I might support them, but they appear to be despots of another stripe. Do you believe that the Muslim Brotherhood are freedom fighters?


Their foriegn policy towards the middle east since WW1 has been wrong and is responsible for pretty much all the mess we see now.Of course there are others to take the blame but this is the primary root cause of what we see now.

I accept the foreign policy disasters since 1918. How would you mend it?

The Indian cities is just strawman, nothing to do with this subject.

I think you are calling it a strawman because it doesn't jibe with your West-responsible-for-everything-bad belief. My point was that some Muslims carry out atrocity in places which the West is not interested in so post-colonialist interference cannot be entirely to blame.

She acknowledges there was a threat there previously but stresses the actions of 2003 """""The invasion of Iraq "substantially" increased the terrorist threat to the UK, the former head of MI5 has said.
Giving evidence to the Iraq inquiry, Baroness Manningham-Buller said the action had radicalised "a few among a generation".
As a result, she said she was not "surprised" that UK nationals were involved in the 7/7 bombings in London."""""

OK and I agree with her, but that is the reverse of what you posted in #33.

Libya was a manufactured revolution to over throw Gaddafi, the same groups then turned to Syria. Before this both nations were stable and relatively peaceful. Funding groups and intervening in these countries hasn't just turned the countries into hell holes, it was and is a deliberate effort to destroy them.

Seems unlikely. Gaddafi was back in the fold, he was no longer using the Med as his boating lake, was not exporting terrorism and was trading with the Western nations. I don't know why the French led the charge to help overthrow him with airstrikes, but if they had not we would have another Syria to this day.

Russia and other world nations can see and so can the people which is why you are seeing liberal anti war leaders springing up all over western nations. I hope you will be voting for Corbyn Robert. :)

You are upholding Russia as a peacemaker? Come now. They are propping up the murderous al-Assad regime for their own ends, no different to the US relationship with Israel and Saudi.

As a lifelong Labour voter, I'll vote Tory to keep Corbyn out of power. He's an intellectual pygmy with thirty years' experience of not supporting his party leader and therefore no has idea how to unite his own party, let alone run a country. But his own party will depose him before 2020.
 
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Detailed analysis of how cash transformed the fraudulent <a href="https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz">@MaajidNawaz</a> into a Muslim hater's BFF. By <a href="https://twitter.com/loonwatchers">@loonwatchers</a> <a href="https://t.co/ItRGScW9gQ">https://t.co/ItRGScW9gQ</a></p>— CJ Werleman (@cjwerleman) <a href="https://twitter.com/cjwerleman/status/840615287745630208">11 March 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Ed has a book to sell.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NhfN7J0SR6U" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xrrdL3RV_n4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
He's a nonentity.

Not so much Uncle Tom and Uncle Whom ?

Do you have a video of Majid Nawaz at the Israel rally? For those who thought he was somehow looking out for Muslims, watching it will change their mind.
 
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