End of an Error as 1.3 billion Indian Hearts are broken by AJ Styles in the GREATEST raslin moment

[shaz619]

You wanted Ambrose to stay face. I can remember .

He needs a heel turn. He's become stale as a face. Only positive of keeping him face is the merchandise he sells.

I've defended his run as a face but have always said he is best suited to the role of a heel having followed him since his work with CZW. He could do with a character change, I give his face run a solid B+ overall he did a good job; it's a matter of where and not when his turn takes place

 

[Hasan123]

I've defended his run as a face but have always said he is best suited to the role of a heel having followed him since his work with CZW. He could do with a character change, I give his face run a solid B+ overall he did a good job; it's a matter of where and not when his turn takes place

Rollins and Dean shouldn't have lost the tag titles. This run as tag champions was helping Seth get over as a face, Dean could have turned on Seth eventually. Instantly giving Dean heat and Seth even more sympathy as a baby face.

 

[maxamax]

Is wrestling still a thing for many?

 

[Hitman]

Is wrestling still a thing for many?

Absolutely. Those who have truly loved the industry will never be disloyal to it. I might not be a fan of the current product but I will always be a fan of wrestling all my life. The best part about it is that it never gets to your nerve with the results unlike other legitimate sports. No stress or heartbreaks over results. All you care for is a good show. Anyways, it's not a sport, neither do we fans claim it to be. It's a show.

 

[leatherface58]

Warrior had a great match with Savage as well, he had abillity but his gimmick was never to look good in the ring but to squash everyone in his path, see his match with honky tonk man, it was short but the crowd went bat sh!t crazy, only warrior could have pulled that off

Savage scripted every second of his match. He was a notorious perfectionist. Warrior never had good matches aside from Hogan (when Patterson was not there, Halloween havoc 1998 happened), Savage and Rick Rude. All 3 great workers. Warrior was over and as a novelty factor, he was a big draw and they were simpler times too. But he was just terrible in the ring and had a terrible attitude.

 

[Hitman]

Warrior was probably the only person in the business whom nobody liked or respected. As for his in ring talent, the less said the better. He was the Bill Goldberg of his time in terms of skills.

 

[Bilal7]

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] [MENTION=141093]big_gamer007[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=95766]leatherface58[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]

If only that Ali guy was the one to beat him doe. WWE should have cashed in on the CT final hype and pressed the button.

 

[Bilal7]

I've defended his run as a face but have always said he is best suited to the role of a heel having followed him since his work with CZW. He could do with a character change, I give his face run a solid B+ overall he did a good job; it's a matter of where and not when his turn takes place

The Shield is too popular right now for any of them to become a heel. WWE should keep them together until Wrestlemania and find a three-man superteam that can hang with them at the show.

I'm thinking Shield vs Balor Club but with Finn and AJ both representing the latter.

 

[maxamax]

Absolutely. Those who have truly loved the industry will never be disloyal to it. I might not be a fan of the current product but I will always be a fan of wrestling all my life. The best part about it is that it never gets to your nerve with the results unlike other legitimate sports. No stress or heartbreaks over results. All you care for is a good show. Anyways, it's not a sport, neither do we fans claim it to be. It's a show.

I used to feel it much during Goldberg days, then the drama became bit too visible. Anyway, its good that people still watch it. Although I am unable to find any around me unlike previous times.

 

[shaz619]

Savage scripted every second of his match. He was a notorious perfectionist. Warrior never had good matches aside from Hogan (when Patterson was not there, Halloween havoc 1998 happened), Savage and Rick Rude. All 3 great workers. Warrior was over and as a novelty factor, he was a big draw and they were simpler times too. But he was just terrible in the ring and had a terrible attitude.

Savage did the same for his match against steamboat. Warrior was no ring general but calling him terrible based on squash matches doesn't give the whole picture, there's only so much you can do in a few minutes and you don't exactly grow as a performer but that example of his match vs Hogan is significant, it was on the big stage and it was not your typical squash either and he was barely working with the best talent in the squared circle but the performance was great. That proves he was far from terrible, not many can say they got a decent match out of hogan at WM. Yeah his attitude was terrible though. And speaking of those simple times, it was the golden gen when fans actually enjoyed the product and wrestlers knew how to cut promos and get their characters over. Undertakers origins were in the 90s to. At present smarks moan and whine as if they are students of the game while wrestlers kill themselves to get a reaction because they can't cut a promo or get audience to suspend their disbelief through character work.

 

[shaz619]

The Shield is too popular right now for any of them to become a heel. WWE should keep them together until Wrestlemania and find a three-man superteam that can hang with them at the show.

I'm thinking Shield vs Balor Club but with Finn and AJ both representing the latter.

True they should continue with the current Shield angle, issue with the club is balor would have to turn heel am not sure they wil do that as he is popular to. AJ is on SD as well.

 

[the Great Khan]

Savage did the same for his match against steamboat. Warrior was no ring general but calling him terrible based on squash matches doesn't give the whole picture, there's only so much you can do in a few minutes and you don't exactly grow as a performer but that example of his match vs Hogan is significant, it was on the big stage and it was not your typical squash either and he was barely working with the best talent in the squared circle but the performance was great. That proves he was far from terrible, not many can say they got a decent match out of hogan at WM. Yeah his attitude was terrible though. And speaking of those simple times, it was the golden gen when fans actually enjoyed the product and wrestlers knew how to cut promos and get their characters over. Undertakers origins were in the 90s to. At present smarks moan and whine as if they are students of the game while wrestlers kill themselves to get a reaction because they can't cut a promo or get audience to suspend their disbelief through character work.

warrior vs savage in one of the wrestlemanias was a good match..also I remember watching undertakers first match lol...It was great watching him when he first burst on the scene. I still remember when he was in the wcw and his signature move was the heart punch..hilarious. He was terrible but wasn't the undertaker then. Road warriors vs the steiners was always a good show.

I'll never forget Hart vs perfect at survivor series (or was it summerslam my memory fails me lol) and then also watching the origin of Austin 3:16 happen before our eyes lol. Just great fun moments..

I just dont watch it now, I just dont have the time but I'll check out those vids you've posted above. I always loved watching the japanese versions of everything..always a good bit of fun..

 

[Sidilicious]

Frank Warren did the same with Vijinder Singh but dropped him almost immediately lol

Thats factually incorrect. Frank Warren worked with Vijender for 2 years and then parted ways only temporarily. 2 months later Frank Warren and Vijender starting working together again. Frank Warren is still promoting Vijender.

 

[shaz619]

Thats factually incorrect. Frank Warren worked with Vijender for 2 years and then parted ways only temporarily. 2 months later Frank Warren and Vijender starting working together again. Frank Warren is still promoting Vijender.

He was fired in May 2017, that's what my post implied. If someone drugged Frank from that point onward's to sign him again , I've not heard about it and quiet frankly the major boxing sites have not covered it either because that Indian pretending to be a fighter is irrelevant and no one cares about him outside India.

 

[Raja Sab]

is Mae Young still wrestling ? I was only a fan of hers, lost interest when she retired

 

[shaz619]

warrior vs savage in one of the wrestlemanias was a good match..also I remember watching undertakers first match lol...It was great watching him when he first burst on the scene. I still remember when he was in the wcw and his signature move was the heart punch..hilarious. He was terrible but wasn't the undertaker then. Road warriors vs the steiners was always a good show.

I'll never forget Hart vs perfect at survivor series (or was it summerslam my memory fails me lol) and then also watching the origin of Austin 3:16 happen before our eyes lol. Just great fun moments..

I just dont watch it now, I just dont have the time but I'll check out those vids you've posted above. I always loved watching the japanese versions of everything..always a good bit of fun..

Did you cry during the ending of Warrior/Savage when Miss Elizabeth reunited with her ex-husband by saving him from that SNAKE sheri martel ? I was too young then to have lived through all those amazing moments but have experienced it all through the archive footage.

lol there's a video online of Takers debut in WCW where he cuts such a bad promo and then he takes his anger out on the poor jobber in the ring, Hart rates him as the greatest work-horse ever in wrestling, he was never the most naturally gifted performer but he got better with experience and worked so hard. That promo which Austin cut on Jake Roberts still gives me chills, the company was going through a big shift, people demanded a product that was more edgy and then you had Austin come along with the likes of DX, HBK/Bret would make things so personal during their worked shoots because they legit hated each other and it made for great TV, Hart/Perfect was at SummerSlam, great match and Perfect especially is so underrated.

Have a look at them and am sure you will be impressed by the in-ring skill, it's a different world altogether from what you knew it to be but it can still be compelling when on a roll in the lead up to a big event like the Royal Rumble, Survivor Series, SummerSlam or Wrestlemania. I just wish they would hold a big PPV in the UK but unlikely, those who attended SummerSlam 92 at Wembley or the one night only PPV in Birmingham are so lucky, maybe not so much the folk who attended the show in my city of Birmingham, am sure [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] would have plenty to rant about

 

[the Great Khan]

Did you cry during the ending of Warrior/Savage when Miss Elizabeth reunited with her ex-husband by saving him from that SNAKE sheri martel ? I was too young then to have lived through all those amazing moments but have experienced it all through the archive footage.

lol there's a video online of Takers debut in WCW where he cuts such a bad promo and then he takes his anger out on the poor jobber in the ring, Hart rates him as the greatest work-horse ever in wrestling, he was never the most naturally gifted performer but he got better with experience and worked so hard. That promo which Austin cut on Jake Roberts still gives me chills, the company was going through a big shift, people demanded a product that was more edgy and then you had Austin come along with the likes of DX, HBK/Bret would make things so personal during their worked shoots because they legit hated each other and it made for great TV, Hart/Perfect was at SummerSlam, great match and Perfect especially is so underrated.

Have a look at them and am sure you will be impressed by the in-ring skill, it's a different world altogether from what you knew it to be but it can still be compelling when on a roll in the lead up to a big event like the Royal Rumble, Survivor Series, SummerSlam or Wrestlemania. I just wish they would hold a big PPV in the UK but unlikely, those who attended SummerSlam 92 at Wembley or the one night only PPV in Birmingham are so lucky, maybe not so much the folk who attended the show in my city of Birmingham, am sure [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] would have plenty to rant about

I saw Rock vs HHH in birmingham back in the day. They fought in a steel cage but I cant remember if it was one night only or RAW. It was the one nearer to the time davey boy smith died. Great match and atmosphere. Also saw a show when rock was uber heel and he really took the mickey out of all of us..great fun..

 

[the Great Khan]

This dude is severly under-rated. Sarge just wasnt a guy who was good on the mic, he was equally good in the ring too. I have watched some of his early stuff in pre-hogan era . The dude was a good ring general.

Heck even in 1997 when he was commisioner of raw he had a good feud with dx and put on some excellent matches with triple h at in your house ppv's.

the sarge was a legend..Yo jo!! lol..one of my fav GIJOe characters too lol

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] It's good for Jinder and his fans that he is not going to get the beating of his life from Brock Lesnar. It was a pretty smart move from WWE. Had Jinder vs Brock happened brock would have beaten the cr@p out of Jinder. Indian news channels would have asked for boycott of WWE and cancelling their subscriptions to teach them a lesson. Well done WWE.

 

[shaz619]

My favourite moment of 2017 after Pak spanked India in the CT final, ah it's been a good year mA [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION]

 

[Braveheart]

Stage managed theatre Drama is not a sport.
And what is 'end of an error'?
Don't you mean 'Era'?

 

[big_gamer007]

My favourite moment of 2017 after Pak spanked India in the CT final, ah it's been a good year mA [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION]

I see you are still jealous and bitter of the great maharaja.. Are you hurt he didn’t chose you as one of his two stooges for the Singh brothers gimmick?

 

[shaz619]

I see you are still jealous and bitter of the great maharaja.. Are you hurt he didn’t chose you as one of his two stooges for the Singh brothers gimmick?

I would love to make the maharaja, his stooges and the rest of his followers clean my toilet because it's what they do best as we have seen lately ; am jealous, bitter and hurt that I don't have access to their award winning plumbing services

 

[big_gamer007]

I would love to make the maharaja, his stooges and the rest of his followers clean my toilet because it's what they do best as we have seen lately ; am jealous, bitter and hurt that I don't have access to their award winning plumbing services

Did wwe release a promo or gimmick showing Indian’s as plumbers which I missed? If they did news channels gonna go crazy..

 

[shokz1408]

Did wwe release a promo or gimmick showing Indian’s as plumbers which I missed? If they did news channels gonna go crazy..

No there was no such segment or gimmick haha

 

[shokz1408]

AJ styles vs owen and zayn will be fun

 

[shaz619]

Did wwe release a promo or gimmick showing Indian’s as plumbers which I missed? If they did news channels gonna go crazy..

They certainly implied just that when HHH squashed the plumbing squad involving Jinder and his stooges in their own backyard of LandfilIndia

 

[shaz619]

AJ styles vs owen and zayn will be fun

On paper AJ should still come through that to set up a huge championship match with Nakamura at mania. But whenever you're up against those odds, the champion is not always going to survive so am concerned. Also, Kevin Owens is a bit of a Vince golden boy so he could go over for the title. Then again, even if AJ were to lose the championship perhaps he could retain it before mania but then it would defeat the purpose of having him drop the belt in the first place besides progressing the Bryan/Shane feud which could be achieved in other ways. But I do look forward to the match and agree it will be fun, I expect AJ to possibly retain the title with some help from Shane

 

[shokz1408]

On paper AJ should still come through that to set up a huge championship match with Nakamura at mania. But whenever you're up against those odds, the champion is not always going to survive so am concerned. Also, Kevin Owens is a bit of a Vince golden boy so he could go over for the title. Then again, even if AJ were to lose the championship perhaps he could retain it before mania but then it would defeat the purpose of having him drop the belt in the first place besides progressing the Bryan/Shane feud which could be achieved in other ways. But I do look forward to the match and agree it will be fun, I expect AJ to possibly retain the title with some help from Shane

I think AJ styles will win, and agreed there will be an interference probably both by bryan and shane. It's a really interesting match, they could go down the route of making one of sami or kevin champion and then they both consider themselves champion, but it kind of sounds similar to the jericho and kevin storyline earlier in the year. Obviously, at some point down the line kevin and sami will feud, and it would be interesting if it happened at WM for the title. You know actually, one of them could win the title at Royal rumble in the handicap match, and the other partner could win the royal rumble match later on in the night to set up the wrestlemania match.

 

[Proactive_]

Don't want to sound judgmental here.. but speaking as someone who has grown up through the Attitude Era, I just can't believe how can anyone of my ilk even tolerate today's product. It's just as bad as it can possibly get. I haven't followed it regularly for like 7-8 years now but every now and then flipping through the channels I land on a segment or another which further reinforces why I was right to stop watching that garbage.

Just last week, I landed on a Smackdown segment with some tag teams which quite frankly was the cringiest attempt at comedy I've ever seen in my life. Like, there wasn't one larger than life character in that segment, not one good mic worker.. just no one who looked like a star. Basically a bunch of geeks doing play school insults for 20 minutes.

It's not like Pro wrestling / sports entertainment as a concept sucks, hell I'd say it's one of the greatest concepts ever as evidenced by the peak popularity of WWF back in the day. Unfortunately, it's just become another family friendly kids show with zero edge to it. No wonder a flippy guy with a stupid haircut is now the champion. From The Rock and Austin to this goof. Oh how the mighty have fallen!

 

[shaz619]

Don't want to sound judgmental here.. but speaking as someone who has grown up through the Attitude Era, I just can't believe how can anyone of my ilk even tolerate today's product. It's just as bad as it can possibly get. I haven't followed it regularly for like 7-8 years now but every now and then flipping through the channels I land on a segment or another which further reinforces why I was right to stop watching that garbage.

Just last week, I landed on a Smackdown segment with some tag teams which quite frankly was the cringiest attempt at comedy I've ever seen in my life. Like, there wasn't one larger than life character in that segment, not one good mic worker.. just no one who looked like a star. Basically a bunch of geeks doing play school insults for 20 minutes.

It's not like Pro wrestling / sports entertainment as a concept sucks, hell I'd say it's one of the greatest concepts ever as evidenced by the peak popularity of WWF back in the day. Unfortunately, it's just become another family friendly kids show with zero edge to it. No wonder a flippy guy with a stupid haircut is now the champion. From The Rock and Austin to this goof. Oh how the mighty have fallen!

Well you've just come to a conclusion based on a couple of segments which you've seen with the same recycle garbage oh the good ol days, I've followed the product from the territory days forget the AE era and it's beyond insulting to call the current champ a flippy guy with a stupid harit cut, you must have a serious mental problem to say something so ridiculous; he's the greatest of his generation and you wouldn't be saying that if you had followed his career since the early 2000's and watched his matches against Daniels, Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, Reigns, Cena, Okada, Tanahashi, Ibushi, Naito and Nakamura. The AE era was overly rated anyway, it was a trashy product for degenerate people; beyond the top guys they could only brawl and relied mostly on gimmick matches to help them given their low in-ring IQ's

 

[shaz619]

Now Jinder Mahal is a legit insult to wrestling, all the criticism is welcomed. But to go after a guy who is worthy of a comparison to Shawn Michaels is disingenuous, you have idiots say, go from the rock / austin to this guy; why is it that austin has him as one of his favourite's and always plugs his in-ring prowess on his podcast when reviewing his matches. Styles is a throwback, he is never in a bad match, works well with all opponents, adjusts based on the match situation and has been a great character heel or face. Next time think before you make idiotic comments. Typical plumber fans, still bitter that their guy Mahal is back to cleaning toilets in the WWE.

 

[Proactive_]

Well you've just come to a conclusion based on a couple of segments which you've seen with the same recycle garbage oh the good ol days, I've followed the product from the territory days forget the AE era and it's beyond insulting to call the current champ a flippy guy with a stupid harit cut, you must have a serious mental problem to say something so ridiculous; he's the greatest of his generation and you wouldn't be saying that if you had followed his career since the early 2000's and watched his matches against Daniels, Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, Reigns, Cena, Okada, Tanahashi, Ibushi, Naito and Nakamura. The AE era was overly rated anyway, it was a trashy product for degenerate people; beyond the top guys they could only brawl and relied mostly on gimmick matches to help them given their low in-ring IQ's

I hit a raw nerve here I guess.

AJ Styles IS a flippy guy with a stupid haircut. There's no ways about it. There is not one era preceding 2014-today in which he would be anywhere near a top title, understand that "territory days" guy. He's a champion today only because he does a few more fake fighting moves than others. Nobody gave a crap about that in any era in history in mainstream wrestling before today. Even the guys who were renowned for their in ring stuff like Flair and Savage were some of the most charismatic guys with character and mic skills, Styles is none of those. If this guy is the best of his generation, then it's safe to say that the generation has been pretty sh*t.

Stop being offended over the truth. Those "Low ring IQ guys" delivered some of the best ratings in history and carried wrestling to mainstream. Has AJ Styles and his generation ever drawn a single casual to the product? Obviously not since the ratings have been plummeting for a decade now. Such great performers with their incredible wrasslin!

 

[Proactive_]

Now Jinder Mahal is a legit insult to wrestling, all the criticism is welcomed. But to go after a guy who is worthy of a comparison to Shawn Michaels is disingenuous, you have idiots say, go from the rock / austin to this guy; why is it that austin has him as one of his favourite's and always plugs his in-ring prowess on his podcast when reviewing his matches. Styles is a throwback, he is never in a bad match, works well with all opponents, adjusts based on the match situation and has been a great character heel or face. Next time think before you make idiotic comments. Typical plumber fans, still bitter that their guy Mahal is back to cleaning toilets in the WWE.

You seriously need to understand that outside your little bubble, in ring stuff is literally the least important factor in pro wrestling. Nobody gives a crap if someone can do 5 more fake moves and fake sell others move better than the other. While chasing these supremacist smarks who get wet over in ring stuff, WWE has essentially managed to make their entire weekly programming non watchable and driven away casuals who followed this thing for larger than life characters, mic skills and storylines. The in ring part might probably be the best it has ever been in history and no wonder the ratings are the lowest they've ever been in history.

 

[shaz619]

I hit a raw nerve here I guess.

AJ Styles IS a flippy guy with a stupid haircut. There's no ways about it. There is not one era preceding 2014-today in which he would be anywhere near a top title, understand that "territory days" guy. He's a champion today only because he does a few more fake fighting moves than others. Nobody gave a crap about that in any era in history in mainstream wrestling before today. Even the guys who were renowned for their in ring stuff like Flair and Savage were some of the most charismatic guys with character and mic skills, Styles is none of those. If this guy is the best of his generation, then it's safe to say that the generation has been pretty sh*t.

Stop being offended over the truth. Those "Low ring IQ guys" delivered some of the best ratings in history and carried wrestling to mainstream. Has AJ Styles and his generation ever drawn a single casual to the product? Obviously not since the ratings have been plummeting for a decade now. Such great performers with their incredible wrasslin!

Anyone who can grasp the industry would not say anything like that from fan to pundit to expert, so your opinion is absolutely invalid beyond comprehension on so many levels! You obviously have not followed AJ Styles at all remotely, just an ignorant old school fan spewing nonsense, he has been a fantastic character who is far superior in the ring then Flair or Savage ever were.

WWE is a global powerhouse and ratings are no longer an accurate metric to judge that because people consume the product in a variety of ways beyond TV, Mania events generate more £££ then ever and WWE stock is valued at record highs. If these guys were so bad the business would be dead but it's in better health then ever, Styles has been a brilliant draw; we saw how the business had suffered considerably when they put the title on a trash bag like Jinder Mahal but he bought many of the fans back who had tuned out, he's one of the top merch sellers in the company to and often refunds are offered if he's unable to attend events which he is expected to headline.

Why the attitude era was so edgy and the greatest period in raslin history due to the following story's:

Mark Henry and the Transvestite

Birth of a Hand

Pretty much every embarrassing angle involving Val Venis

Terri's fake miscariage

Mae Young Expose

Trish forced to bark like a dog among other things by he boss Vince

Oh 'the good ol days'

Besides that the worker's needed garbage bins and kendo sticks to help them work a match because they had zero technical ability and the fans were too thick anyway so cheered on the garbage they saw in the ring

 

[Proactive_]

Anyone who can grasp the industry would not say anything like that from fan to pundit to expert, so you're opinion is absolutely invalid beyond comprehension on so many levels! You obviously have not followed AJ Styles at all remotely, just an ignorant old school fan spewing nonsense, he has been a fantastic character who is far superior in the ring then Flair or Savage ever were.

"Fantastic character". Yeah, a guy whose character is that he does fake moves better than others. What a great character lol. He can keep his "far superior" in ring skills than Flair and Savage because he'll never even be a pimple in the a*s of Flair and Savage as far as being a mainstream draw goes.

WWE is a global powerhouse and ratings are no longer an accurate metric to judge that because people consume the product in a variety of ways beyond TV, Mania events generate more £££ then ever and WWE stock is valued at record highs. If these guys were so bad the business would be dead but it's in better health then ever, Styles has been a brilliant draw; we saw how the business had suffered considerably when they put the title on a trash bag like Jinder Mahal but he bought many of the fans back who had tuned out, he's one of the top merch sellers in the company to and often refunds are offered if he's unable to attend events which he is expected to headline.

Yeah, that's why they are doing razor thin profits year after year, and if I heard correctly, they've done away with pyro as well lol. What a financially healthy company! Go back 15 years and tell a WWE fan that the company would do away with pyro one day and they'll laugh at you.

Why the attitude era was so edgy and the greatest period in raslin history due to the following story's:

Mark Henry and the Transvestite

Birth of a Hand

Pretty much every embarrassing angle involving Val Venis

Terri's fake miscariage

Mae Young Expose

Trish forced to bark like a dog among other things by he boss Vince

Oh 'the good ol days'

Still much better than watching pointless 20 minute matches every week x100 with no rhyme or reason behind them.

Besides that the worker's needed garbage bins and kendo sticks to help them work a match because they had zero technical ability and the fans were too thick anyway so cheered on the garbage they saw in the ring

Nobody cares about technical ability in mainstream pro wrestling. You want technical ability? Watch those Japanese promotions. WWE became the global juggernaut that it did on the back of larger than life characters who could actually talk. Not because of flippy goofs like AJ Styles.

 

[shaz619]

You seriously need to understand that outside your little bubble, in ring stuff is literally the least important factor in pro wrestling. Nobody gives a crap if someone can do 5 more fake moves and fake sell others move better than the other. While chasing these supremacist smarks who get wet over in ring stuff, WWE has essentially managed to make their entire weekly programming non watchable and driven away casuals who followed this thing for larger than life characters, mic skills and storylines. The in ring part might probably be the best it has ever been in history and no wonder the ratings are the lowest they've ever been in history.

It's the most important factor, it's the bread and butter of the business otherwise if you're purely interested in trashy porn which you saw during the Attitude era then you can find that in other forms but if you're unable to put on a show in the ring then everything else s completely irrelevant, you have a very simple and limited view with regards to the industry but to make you understand, it is called pro-wrestling not professional degenerate TV. Now great characters and gimmicks are vital to the industry, but the action is even more important and what fans pay their hard earned cash to see at PPV events. Wrestling is not meant to be an Indian soap opera you idiot. It's about the spectacle in the ring, technical prowess from a variety of specialist styles involving high flying, brawling, technical wrestling, strong style wrestling, catch wrestling, lucha libre wrestling and shoot wrestling; the great characters and gimmicks inevitably build to the in-ring action, the feud's are designed to get people invested in the match and depending on how over you are and the thing's you're able to do the crowd may or may not react when the action unfolds. But you sound like a big Vince Russo fan.

 

[Proactive_]

It's the most important factor, it's the bread and butter of the business otherwise if you're purely interested in trashy porn which you saw during the Attitude era then you can find that in other forms but if you're unable to put on a show in the ring then everything else s completely irrelevant, you have a very simple and limited view with regards to the industry but to make you understand, it is called pro-wrestling not professional degenerate TV. Now great characters and gimmicks are vital to the industry, but the action is even more important and what fans pay their hard earned cash to see at PPV events. Wrestling is not meant to be an Indian soap opera you idiot. It's about the spectacle in the ring, technical prowess from a variety of specialist styles involving high flying, brawling, technical wrestling, strong style wrestling, catch wrestling, lucha libre wrestling and shoot wrestling; the great characters and gimmicks inevitably build to the in-ring action, the feud's are designed to get people invested in the match and depending on how over you are and the thing's you're able to do the crowd may or may not react when the action unfolds. But you sound like a big Vince Russo fan.

You're right on one count. That they need great characters and gimmicks to build up to the matches. But unfortunately today, thanks to people like AJ Styles, it's actually a*s backwards.. where your in ring actions actually decide your character ***. And thanks to that they're at the lowest point they've ever been in history, no wonder.

 

[shaz619]

"Fantastic character". Yeah, a guy whose character is that he does fake moves better than others. What a great character lol. He can keep his "far superior" in ring skills than Flair and Savage because he'll never even be a pimple in the a*s of Flair and Savage as far as being a mainstream draw goes.



Yeah, that's why they are doing razor thin profits year after year, and if I heard correctly, they've done away with pyro as well lol. What a financially healthy company! Go back 15 years and tell a WWE fan that the company would do away with pyro one day and they'll laugh at you.



Still much better than watching pointless 20 minute matches every week x100 with no rhyme or reason behind them.



Nobody cares about technical ability in mainstream pro wrestling. You want technical ability? Watch those Japanese promotions. WWE became the global juggernaut that it did on the back of larger than life characters who could actually talk. Not because of flippy goofs like AJ Styles.

Being a mainstream draw is not something which is a metric from the POV of a wrestler which they are going to brag about and it's an insult to Ric Flair especially because he was more then just that he was a brilliant all round performer who helped put the industry on the map, across every generation what fans have paid to see is good wrestling in addition to good characters. The AE era is the only time in history where the fans were so thick that all they wanted to see was cheap / crash TV. Savage and Flair are both all time greats and 90% of those who saw both also rate AJ Styles who doesn't has as much charisma as those guys but as an all round performer he's brilliant and is the closest thing to Shawn Michaels you"ll ever see in the ring.

The business is in great health you can check that out at the stock market and their profit increase every year; nothing suggests that the company is going to fold anytime soon the machine will keep going, if they don't need that damn pyro every week why do it for the sake of it; they were a lot stupid back then, they can make up for it by using that money more efficiently or investing all those funds in a big spectacle like mania which is a bigger event then ever.

Those larger then life characters would kill the current product, they wouldn't be able to have a match that lasts longer then 3 minutes. Fans are a lot more intelligent now, someone like Styles can carry himself on the mic which is a must for a lengthy title reign and he can deliver in the ring to. If we go back to the 90's the WWE will go backrupt within 4 weeks

 

[Proactive_]

Being a mainstream draw is not something which is a metric from the POV of a wrestler which they are going to brag about and it's an insult to Ric Flair especially because he was more then just that he was a brilliant all round performer who helped put the industry on the map, across every generation what fans have paid to see is good wrestling in addition to good characters. The AE era is the only time in history where the fans were so thick that all they wanted to see was cheap / crash TV. Savage and Flair are both all time greats and 90% of those who saw both also rate AJ Styles who doesn't has as much charisma as those guys but as an all round performer he's brilliant and is the closest thing to Shawn Michaels you"ll ever see in the ring.

The business is in great health you can check that out at the stock market and their profit increase every year; nothing suggests that the company is going to fold anytime soon the machine will keep going, if they don't need that damn pyro every week why do it for the sake of it; they were a lot stupid back then, they can make up for it by using that money more efficiently or investing all those funds in a big spectacle like mania which is a bigger event then ever

The only reason WWE is doing any profits whatsoever is because they have 0 competition.. something which they achieved by doing things that they have abandoned today to please the in ring supremacists. Put even WcW 2000 against this garbage WWE product today and WWE would be losing their profits in a year. Put WcW 96 and WWE would be out of business. Obviously the machine will keep doing.. who will put them out of business? WWE had a 60 million profit on a revenue of 375 odd million in 99 with competition. They'd be lucky to get half of the profit with double the revenue these days.

And I don't care if even God comes down and proclaims AJ Styles as some sort of a great wrestler. He'll always be the poster child of the decline of wrestling in this generation.

 

[shaz619]

You're right on one count. That they need great characters and gimmicks to build up to the matches. But unfortunately today, thanks to people like AJ Styles, it's actually a*s backwards.. where your in ring actions actually decide your character ***. And thanks to that they're at the lowest point they've ever been in history, no wonder.

It's not styles job to decide how to book story line's and feud's, it is the job of creative writing team. It's a completely different world now and you do get many instances where they just have a random match at times with no meaning but if you follow the product as closely as I do then you'd know that everything you say is false, you already said you only watch clips here and there before overly judging how can you even grasp a feud, or storyline in one segment lol if you legit watched for an extended period I'd be like that's your fair point. But that's not how things work, but most of the time the company build's a feud up which culminate's in a PPV match; now that story may not always be your cup of tea but the company still needs to sell a PPV match by trying to get their audience invested in the story, now in Japan and other parts of the world there's not as much emphasis on story telling, gimmicks and character's but in the WWE it still is and has always been although in terms of the in-ring action the company has adjusted with the current era and Styles is more then just a high flyer, he can brawl and he can be a technician as well; he may not be a Ric Flair on the mic but no one can be a Ric Flair on the mic because there is only one Ric Flair but Styles gets the job done as a character which is why he is over. Their lowest point was when Diesel was champion actually from a company stand point while Mahal is the worst champ they've ever had.

 

[Proactive_]

Those larger then life characters would kill the current product, they wouldn't be able to have a match that lasts longer then 3 minutes. Fans are a lot more intelligent now, someone like Styles can carry himself on the mic which is a must for a lengthy title reign and he can deliver in the ring to. If we go back to the 90's the WWE will go backrupt within 4 weeks

Obviously the fans are "smarter" because the casuals are leaving the product and have been for the past decade. What's left are these "smart" fans who act like they're a PhD in professional wrestling, rate matches on a scale of 5 stars and cheer for charisma challenged goofs without character or mic skills like AJ Styles.

 

[shaz619]

The only reason WWE is doing any profits whatsoever is because they have 0 competition.. something which they achieved by doing things that they have abandoned today to please the in ring supremacists. Put even WcW 2000 against this garbage WWE product today and WWE would be losing their profits in a year. Put WcW 96 and WWE would be out of business. Obviously the machine will keep doing.. who will put them out of business? WWE had a 60 million profit on a revenue of 375 odd million in 99 with competition. They'd be lucky to get half of the profit with double the revenue these days.

And I don't care if even God comes down and proclaims AJ Styles as some sort of a great wrestler. He'll always be the poster child of the decline of wrestling in this generation.

They have 0 competition because Vince took them out due to his superior product and professionalism, WCW 2000 was for fans with severe special needs so the less said the better about that. The current business is in great health and if competition does rise it will get wiped out because that's what Vince does best and Styles will go down among the all time greats, this is the first time I've ever come across a fan past or present to belittle him and every pundit / expert / peer can't praise him enough so your opinion is invalid on so many levels, it's like saying Sachin Tendulkar is a bad batsman lmao what's worse is your narrow minded views have been based on ignorance because you don't even watch the current product or followed the current champions career to have made so many stupid comments

 

[Proactive_]

It's not styles job to decide how to book story line's and feud's, it is the job of creative writing team. It's a completely different world now and you do get many instances where they just have a random match at times with no meaning but if you follow the product as closely as I do then you'd know that everything you say is false, you already said you only watch clips here and there before overly judging how can you even grasp a feud, or storyline in one segment lol if you legit watched for an extended period I'd be like that's your fair point. But that's not how things work, but most of the time the company build's a feud up which culminate's in a PPV match; now that story may not always be your cup of tea but the company still needs to sell a PPV match by trying to get their audience invested in the story, now in Japan and other parts of the world there's not as much emphasis on story telling, gimmicks and character's but in the WWE it still is and has always been although in terms of the in-ring action the company has adjusted with the current era and Styles is more then just a high flyer, he can brawl and he can be a technician as well; he may not be a Ric Flair on the mic but no one can be a Ric Flair on the mic because there is only one Ric Flair but Styles gets the job done as a character which is why he is over. Their lowest point was when Diesel was champion actually from a company stand point while Mahal is the worst champ they've ever had.

Obviously it's not my cup of tea. More power to you if you still enjoy it. I couldn't care less. But don't, for one second claim that WWE isn't losing fans and mainstream relevancy at an alarming rate in the last 10 years which has (unsurprisingly) coincided with the gradual shift of priorities from characters and mic skills to in ring stuff, something AJ Styles is a poster child of. No wonder they have embarrassing profit margins even with 0 competition and a world wide reach.

 

[shaz619]

Obviously the fans are "smarter" because the casuals are leaving the product and have been for the past decade. What's left are these "smart" fans who act like they're a PhD in professional wrestling, rate matches on a scale of 5 stars and cheer for charisma challenged goofs without character or mic skills like AJ Styles.

Majority of the current fanbase is made up of casuals rather then smarks so there goes your stupid theories, matches have always been rated out of 5 stars since the territory days lmao and if styles did not have any charisma especially in the WWE he would not be champion, like you said you haven't followed him and most your views are based on ignorance and a narrow minded view that the business can only thrive on crash style TV which is just ridiculous, you want to go back to the days where you drool over roided up freaks who gas before they even get in the ring that's not going to happen because in the current era good characters and good wrestling is required.

 

[Suleiman]

I'm going to start a wrestling business and put this hack of a redneck company out of its misery. I'll call it UWF. Universal Wrestling Federation. Patent pending.

 

[Proactive_]

They have 0 competition because Vince took them out due to his superior product and professionalism, WCW 2000 was for fans with severe special needs so the less said the better about that. The current business is in great health and if competition does rise it will get wiped out because that's what Vince does best and Styles will go down among the all time greats, this is the first time I've ever come across a fan past or present to belittle him and every pundit / expert / peer can't praise him enough so your opinion is invalid on so many levels, it's like saying Sachin Tendulkar is a bad batsman lmao what's worse is your narrow minded views have been based on ignorance because you don't even watch the current product or followed the current champions career to have made so many stupid comments

And that "superior product" was actually catering to the mainstream by prioritizing stuff that actually draws, not **** 3/4 35 minute matches every week. I didn't stop watching in a jiffy, it has been a gradual decline from around 2009-10 in which I religiously followed both RAW and Smackdown, all 4 hours of them.. which turned to only watching segments of performers I liked.. to only watching highlights on YT and stuff to now.. thanks to the ever increasing decline in the quality of the product. Don't get me wrong.. WWE still can do well when it tries.. for instance I loved whatever I saw of the Joe-Brock program, same with Reigns- Strowman.. but it's just too little and too far apart in between all the garbage surrounding it.

 

[Proactive_]

Majority of the current fanbase is made up of casuals rather then smarks so there goes your stupid theories, matches have always been rated out of 5 stars since the territory days lmao and if styles did not have any charisma especially in the WWE he would not be champion, like you said you haven't followed him and most your views are based on ignorance and a narrow minded view that the business can only thrive on crash style TV which is just ridiculous, you want to go back to the days where you drool over roided up freaks who gas before they even get in the ring that's not going to happen because in the current era good characters and good wrestling is required.

Yeah, because obviously the next thing people would have been talking about the day after WM 14, 15 and 16 was how many stars the main event would get. Alright lol.

Roided up freaks? The Rock was a roided up freak? Austin? Taker? Foley?

 

[shaz619]

Obviously it's not my cup of tea. More power to you if you still enjoy it. I couldn't care less. But don't, for one second claim that WWE isn't losing fans and mainstream relevancy at an alarming rate in the last 10 years which has (unsurprisingly) coincided with the gradual shift of priorities from characters and mic skills to in ring stuff, something AJ Styles is a poster child of. No wonder they have embarrassing profit margins even with 0 competition and a world wide reach.

The company will keep thriving and Vince knows exactly what he's doing, he's not stupid enough to completely dilute wrestling and has ensured the WWE's longevity for generations to come. There may not be as much interest now compared to the late 90's in America but the WWE is a bigger global powerhouse then it has ever been and this is indicated by their network subscribers. It is true that in-ring work has more of an emphasis in this era but if you have a bland character you won't get over with the fans in America which is why Mahal has failed beyond his god awful in-ring work, you obviously feel Styles is a blank slate but you're just wrong; but if we look beyond him there's Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman, Reigns and Kevin Owens etc who are all fantastic characters.

 

[Proactive_]

The company will keep thriving and Vince knows exactly what he's doing, he's not stupid enough to completely dilute wrestling and has ensured the WWE's longevity for generations to come. There may not be as much interest now compared to the late 90's in America but the WWE is a bigger global powerhouse then it has ever been and this is indicated by their network subscribers. It is true that in-ring work has more of an emphasis in this era but if you have a bland character you won't get over with the fans in America which is why Mahal has failed beyond his god awful in-ring work, you obviously feel Styles is a blank slate but you're just wrong; but if we look beyond him there's Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman, Reigns and Kevin Owens etc who are all fantastic characters.

WWE is a bigger global network only because of the spread of the Internet. If internet spread and per capita income of the world was like today in the late 90s, you really think there would be the same amount of subscribers to the WWE network?

In ring stuff today is not just having more emphasis, it has superseded all other factors in a big way. Just how much of RAW is filled with pointless match after pointless match these days which do absolutely nothing to further any story line and characters? You'd be hard pressed to find a match going more than 5 minutes on RAW in 99-2000, and rightfully so.. because weekly programming is to build up characters, story lines and the eventual PPV match, not to spam a 1000 pointless matches every week to quench the thirst of in ring supremacist fans.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah, because obviously the next thing people would have been talking about the day after WM 14, 15 and 16 was how many stars the main event would get. Alright lol.

Roided up freaks? The Rock was a roided up freak? Austin? Taker? Foley?

If the match quality wasn't important then why were people so angry about Sting/Hogan in 97 Starcade, in fact why have a match at all between WM 14 -16 ? lets just show up and have an in-ring segment lol also, the era of wrestling between 14-16 did not demand high quality wrestling, it wanted to see more hardcore matches and pure brawling but you still had to put effort in. The current era is more balanced.

All those guys were decent in the ring to, you have been specifically pointing how the business needs 99% of guys who are specialists on the mic right now.

 

[shaz619]

WWE is a bigger global network only because of the spread of the Internet. If internet spread and per capita income of the world was like today in the late 90s, you really think there would be the same amount of subscribers to the WWE network?

In ring stuff today is not just having more emphasis, it has superseded all other factors in a big way. Just how much of RAW is filled with pointless match after pointless match these days which do absolutely nothing to further any story line and characters? You'd be hard pressed to find a match going more than 5 minutes on RAW in 99-2000, and rightfully so.. because weekly programming is to build up characters, story lines and the eventual PPV match, not to spam a 1000 pointless matches every week to quench the thirst of in ring supremacist fans.

Vince went all out with regards to crash style TV because there was competition, why should he do the same right now when there isn't and completely dilute the product. If the WWE did not adapt from the AE era it would not have survived, it has to evolve and pace itself constantly when the market place changes, this is simple economics.

In WWE you will find that there's more of a balance between character work and in-ring prowess, honestly you're kidding yourself if you believe that character work is completely insignificant I'd still say that 70% of the time as a wrestler you need to be a good character to have a great career, you just don't watch wrestling anymore to see that while I admit it was close to 90% in previous era's

 

[Proactive_]

If the match quality wasn't important then why were people so angry about Sting/Hogan in 97 Starcade, in fact why have a match at all between WM 14 -16 ? lets just show up and have an in-ring segment lol also, the era of wrestling between 14-16 did not demand high quality wrestling, it wanted to see more hardcore matches and pure brawling but you still had to put effort in. The current era is more balanced.

All those guys were decent in the ring to, you have been specifically pointing how the business needs 99% of guys who are specialists on the mic right now.

Because WWF matches weren't used to be "matches" per se. They were sold as fights and were fought as such. You wouldn't see any 99 PPV main event match starting with chain holds. They represented the culmination of weeks of pent up rage, animosity, jealousy, pride.. just pure raw emotion that had been built up by competent booking prioritizing characters and mic skills on weekly programming. Today's PPV matches represent an in ring contest with little to no back story. Just two dudes doing moves for 25 minutes.

Obviously the guys back then were decent in the ring, when did I ever say that they didn't need to be? The point is that it came way down the pecking order on the stuff that they had to be improving on as a pro wrestler. The crowd was hot for them anyway even if they did 3 moves, and that's the true worth of a star, it's not having a catalog of 1000 moves and counters.

 

[big_gamer007]

Don't want to sound judgmental here.. but speaking as someone who has grown up through the Attitude Era, I just can't believe how can anyone of my ilk even tolerate today's product. It's just as bad as it can possibly get. I haven't followed it regularly for like 7-8 years now but every now and then flipping through the channels I land on a segment or another which further reinforces why I was right to stop watching that garbage.

Just last week, I landed on a Smackdown segment with some tag teams which quite frankly was the cringiest attempt at comedy I've ever seen in my life. Like, there wasn't one larger than life character in that segment, not one good mic worker.. just no one who looked like a star. Basically a bunch of geeks doing play school insults for 20 minutes.

It's not like Pro wrestling / sports entertainment as a concept sucks, hell I'd say it's one of the greatest concepts ever as evidenced by the peak popularity of WWF back in the day. Unfortunately, it's just become another family friendly kids show with zero edge to it. No wonder a flippy guy with a stupid haircut is now the champion. From The Rock and Austin to this goof. Oh how the mighty have fallen!

I agree with some of your post, the attitude era was he pinnacle and as we were growing up during that time we loved goofy characters as well but since we are adults today we think logically and dismiss goofy characters of today...

Secondly the attitude era was edgier and story lines were better, wrestling has been going on since ages and tbh there are not many new storyline concepts out there immediately any storyline they release it is somewhat relatable to a storyline of attitude era or new gen era or cartoon era and comparison begins hence the lack of interest as it’s not fresh...

I personally watched wrestling not for the wrestling skills but for the larger than life characters and story lines,. Today’s wrestlers are better wrestlers in ring than their predecessors however they can’t be compared as characters or promo masters of old.. It’s partly due to PG era and too much censorship..

Current champion is Brock leaner I think.. You mean he’s a flippy guy? That’s the biggest joke I have heard if you think Brock is some wannabe.. He’s one of the few legit real life badasses WWF ever had and is in league with shamrock, haku, Blackman.. His current suplex gimmick doesn’t do his skills justice but it’s still better than 90% of AE gimmicks and wrestlers..

If someone else is current champion then ignore the above part of my post..

So in short I don’t follow wrestling but I do watch occasional matches for fun the quality of wrestling is good and I watch old timers like Goldberg, Brock, taker, Jericho etc when they come back.. I like braun stowman right now he’s going a bit like Goldberg and is bigger than him in size let’s see how he goes..

 

[Proactive_]

Vince went all out with regards to crash style TV because there was competition, why should he do the same right now when there isn't and completely dilute the product. If the WWE did not adapt from the AE era it would not have survived, it has to evolve and pace itself constantly when the market place changes, this is simple economics.

In WWE you will find that there's more of a balance between character work and in-ring prowess, honestly you're kidding yourself if you believe that character work is completely insignificant I'd still say that 70% of the time as a wrestler you need to be a good character to have a great career, you just don't watch wrestling anymore to see that while I admit it was close to 90% in previous era's

If character work still matters then why the hell are they shoving more and more pointless 15 minute matches on weekly programming and have been for the past 8-9 years? And more often than not it's the same match that they spam every week for months. Where are the weekly innovative segments, the proper mic wars, the proper "feuds" and "rivalries" to accentuate the characters of the performers? There's none of that and you know it.

 

[Proactive_]

I agree with some of your post, the attitude era was he pinnacle and as we were growing up during that time we loved goofy characters as well but since we are adults today we think logically and dismiss goofy characters of today...

Secondly the attitude era was edgier and story lines were better, wrestling has been going on since ages and tbh there are not many new storyline concepts out there immediately any storyline they release it is somewhat relatable to a storyline of attitude era or new gen era or cartoon era and comparison begins hence the lack of interest as it’s not fresh...

I personally watched wrestling not for the wrestling skills but for the larger than life characters and story lines,. Today’s wrestlers are better wrestlers in ring than their predecessors however they can’t be compared as characters or promo masters of old.. It’s partly due to PG era and too much censorship..

Current champion is Brock leaner I think.. You mean he’s a flippy guy? That’s the biggest joke I have heard if you think Brock is some wannabe.. He’s one of the few legit real life badasses WWF ever had and is in league with shamrock, haku, Blackman.. His current suplex gimmick doesn’t do his skills justice but it’s still better than 90% of AE gimmicks and wrestlers..

If someone else is current champion then ignore the above part of my post..

So in short I don’t follow wrestling but I do watch occasional matches for fun the quality of wrestling is good and I watch old timers like Goldberg, Brock, taker, Jericho etc when they come back.. I like braun stowman right now he’s going a bit like Goldberg and is bigger than him in size let’s see how he goes..

I've no problem with Brock, he's incredible and must watch TV every time he's on the screen. Sad that he's a part timer. People like AJ Styles on the other hand.. gosh.

 

[big_gamer007]

They certainly implied just that when HHH squashed the plumbing squad involving Jinder and his stooges in their own backyard of LandfilIndia

HHH buries jinder in India? damn that’s savage

 

[big_gamer007]

I've no problem with Brock, he's incredible and must watch TV every time he's on the screen. Sad that he's a part timer. People like AJ Styles on the other hand.. gosh.

AJ styles is a good wrestler tbh I liked him better during his TNA days as TNA had some great gimmicks for styles, Samoa joe and Cristopher daniels and all three are amazing in ring performers so their segments were great.. He could have been booked better maybe as a heel with a heel manager to add some spice..

 

[Aman]

Proactive is so ignorant.

The WWE is in the best shape it's EVER been financially and the last two weeks of SD which featured AJ Styles in the main event has done some of their best ratings since the split.

As for mainstream appeal, the WWE is never going to be mainstream again. The characters and writing is watered down, and kayfabe is dead. There's also the UFC and the internet which has made things a lot more difficult.

 

[Aman]

If character work still matters then why the hell are they shoving more and more pointless 15 minute matches on weekly programming and have been for the past 8-9 years? And more often than not it's the same match that they spam every week for months. Where are the weekly innovative segments, the proper mic wars, the proper "feuds" and "rivalries" to accentuate the characters of the performers? There's none of that and you know it.

Because the company doesn't want to create stars. Vince wants the brand to be the draw. Giving guys defined characters that can get over would go against that. This is why today's characters/gimmicks are either stale or non existent, which leaves a focus on in ring work and little to nothing in engaging feuds and characters.

 

[Aman]

Vince has no competition, that's why he can do it. What he doesn't want is another Rock or Brock, who he invests so much in only for them to walk out on him.

 

[Aman]

The only reason WWE is doing any profits whatsoever is because they have 0 competition.. something which they achieved by doing things that they have abandoned today to please the in ring supremacists. Put even WcW 2000 against this garbage WWE product today and WWE would be losing their profits in a year. Put WcW 96 and WWE would be out of business. Obviously the machine will keep doing.. who will put them out of business? WWE had a 60 million profit on a revenue of 375 odd million in 99 with competition. They'd be lucky to get half of the profit with double the revenue these days.

And I don't care if even God comes down and proclaims AJ Styles as some sort of a great wrestler. He'll always be the poster child of the decline of wrestling in this generation.

WWE was in decline long before AJ joined the WWE

In fact, AJ has actually been one of their best draws ratings and merch wise. He's number 3 behind Cena and Roman when it comes to merch.

 

[Aman]

Vince went all out with regards to crash style TV because there was competition, why should he do the same right now when there isn't and completely dilute the product. If the WWE did not adapt from the AE era it would not have survived, it has to evolve and pace itself constantly when the market place changes, this is simple economics.

In WWE you will find that there's more of a balance between character work and in-ring prowess, honestly you're kidding yourself if you believe that character work is completely insignificant I'd still say that 70% of the time as a wrestler you need to be a good character to have a great career, you just don't watch wrestling anymore to see that while I admit it was close to 90% in previous era's

WWE was literally trainwreck TV back then, idk how it would fare in a PC world.

 

[Aman]

If character work still matters then why the hell are they shoving more and more pointless 15 minute matches on weekly programming and have been for the past 8-9 years? And more often than not it's the same match that they spam every week for months. Where are the weekly innovative segments, the proper mic wars, the proper "feuds" and "rivalries" to accentuate the characters of the performers? There's none of that and you know it.

Because it's easier to work 15-20 min matches than it is to write engaging TV. Vince doesn't care, he's going to make a lot of money either way.

 

[Aman]

Obviously the fans are "smarter" because the casuals are leaving the product and have been for the past decade. What's left are these "smart" fans who act like they're a PhD in professional wrestling, rate matches on a scale of 5 stars and cheer for charisma challenged goofs without character or mic skills like AJ Styles.

If AJ didn't have charisma he wouldn't have made it to the top wherever he went.

Best not to use words you don't understand, it only ends up making you look silly.

 

[Aman]

And that "superior product" was actually catering to the mainstream by prioritizing stuff that actually draws, not **** 3/4 35 minute matches every week. I didn't stop watching in a jiffy, it has been a gradual decline from around 2009-10 in which I religiously followed both RAW and Smackdown, all 4 hours of them.. which turned to only watching segments of performers I liked.. to only watching highlights on YT and stuff to now.. thanks to the ever increasing decline in the quality of the product. Don't get me wrong.. WWE still can do well when it tries.. for instance I loved whatever I saw of the Joe-Brock program, same with Reigns- Strowman.. but it's just too little and too far apart in between all the garbage surrounding it.

The WWE started declining LONG BEFORE then. It's been in decline ever since they lost Rock and Austin and was in decline when Cena, HHH and Batista were on top.

 

[shaz619]

WWE was literally trainwreck TV back then, idk how it would fare in a PC world.

Exactly, it was a trainwreck era which had many great moments and characters but the angles were all garbage, story telling was more consistent in the RA era. WWE will make the big bucks regardless, at the same time a lot of thing have changed when it comes to company direction besides not diluting the product there could certainly be more consistency when it comes to the creative and booking, to get really hot you need to be a good character Proactive doesn't watch so still brings up the old myths. While creative are to blame but so are talent at times, it's not a shark tank anymore guys like Punk and Styles became champ because they took risks to prove their worth , New Day did the same and we've seen many positives in recent times to involving characters, Braun/Reigns, Joe/Brock, KO/Zayn pairing, USOS, Benjamin/Gable, RussevDay, Women are more relevant then ever, Styles is one hell of a face and Hardy/Wyatt has potential, so to suggest character work is insignificant is silly, TV could be written better but character and wrestling both important

 

[shaz619]

HHH buries jinder in India? damn that’s savage

Yeah he did lmao then after was doing bhangra with Singh bros before giving them a pedigree after the match

 

[Aman]

Exactly, it was a trainwreck era which had many great moments and characters but the angles were all garbage, story telling was more consistent in the RA era. WWE will make the big bucks regardless, at the same time a lot of thing have changed when it comes to company direction besides not diluting the product there could certainly be more consistency when it comes to the creative and booking, to get really hot you need to be a good character Proactive doesn't watch so still brings up the old myths. While creative are to blame but so are talent at times, it's not a shark tank anymore guys like Punk and Styles became champ because they took risks to prove their worth , New Day did the same and we've seen many positives in recent times to involving characters, Braun/Reigns, Joe/Brock, KO/Zayn pairing, USOS, Benjamin/Gable, RussevDay, Women are more relevant then ever, Styles is one hell of a face and Hardy/Wyatt has potential, so to suggest character work is insignificant is silly, TV could be written better but character and wrestling both important

These AE marks are the absolute worst. Live on the AE where there was no filters and anything was possible to pop a rating. You just cannot do that stuff today.

People with absolutely ZERO talent and charisma were over back then for doing those things.

Yeah, I definitely preferred RA to AE. Writing was far better and you could replicate that today.