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England show the way to New Zealand....

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MenInG

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From ECB release regarding England World Cup squad


Selected players, currently playing in the Indian Premier League, will return in time for the series against Pakistan, which gets underway at Headingley on Wednesday 22 May 2024.

...

So none of the IPL preference rubbish by ECB

So, England's players in the IPL, will miss the play-offs to participate in the series against Pakistan.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
MenInG said:
From ECB release regarding England World Cup squad


Selected players, currently playing in the Indian Premier League, will return in time for the series against Pakistan, which gets underway at Headingley on Wednesday 22 May 2024.

...

So none of the IPL preference rubbish by ECB.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
They are preparing for WT20. It's a good opportunity for them to get their XI settled before the big event begins
 
It would have been silly if they did not play the series with the WC in mind.
 
MenInG said:
From ECB release regarding England World Cup squad


Selected players, currently playing in the Indian Premier League, will return in time for the series against Pakistan, which gets underway at Headingley on Wednesday 22 May 2024.

...

So none of the IPL preference rubbish by ECB

So, England's players in the IPL, will miss the play-offs to participate in the series against Pakistan.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

This England's home series. For NZ, it was an away series. Not a good comparison.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This England's home series. For NZ, it was an away series. Not a good comparison.
Click to expand...

Huh?

Point is they are playing an international series and pulling players out of IPL INL in preference.
 
MenInG said:
Huh?

Point is they are playing an international series and pulling players out of IPL INL in preference.
Click to expand...

NZ would have probably played full strength too if they had a series at home against a visiting side.

If England were playing a full strength XI while playing PAK in PAK , then this would've been a lesson to NZC
 
By then most of the IPL playoffs woudl have been determined. Many would have to go home anyway. I am doubtful if Buttler will leave as his team is likely to reach the final. Moeen may not leave if CSK makes the playoff. Other teams mosts certainly won't make the final. Punjab has 3 English players. RCB has 1 player. If this series had happened at the start of the IPL, i am sure England would have played b string team
 
Different approaches

One board thinks international is the best way to prepare, the other thinks IPL is.

Imo NZ approach is correct. Pakistan is a minnow team now
 
Actually India will have very little breathing space between IPL final and world T20. Poor scheduling by IPL. They could have had 2 matches on saturday from the beginning.
 
MenInG said:
Huh?

Point is they are playing an international series and pulling players out of IPL INL in preference.
Click to expand...

They wouldn’t have done it if they were coming to Pakistan.

The broadcasters, sponsors and the fans would all expect to see a full strength England team when it comes to playing at home.
 
YousafTheBeast said:
They wouldn’t have done it if they were coming to Pakistan.

The broadcasters, sponsors and the fans would all expect to see a full strength England team when it comes to playing at home.
Click to expand...

Yes but in NZ's case, it's not about ruffling IPL owners' feathers.
 
Pak team will be the real beneficiary here.
After a long time they will get to test their players against a full strength team in a bilateral. :inti
 
Well, this is what your approach should be when it comes to the preparations for the ICC T20 World Cup.

------------

Rob Key, England men's managing director, speaking after announcing England's provisional squad for ICC World Cup:

"You can't just call people back for no reasons: there are protections

"Without injury or England commitments, we couldn't say to Phil Salt, for example, come back and have a rest for the next 15 days. But there is a window just before an England series when you can bring players back for England duty or injury."

"I asked him very early on in the piece and said, 'Look, as England captain, you're obviously going to have this series against Pakistan. How do you see it?' And straightaway, he said, 'No, no, I want to come back and start getting ready for the World Cup in that series that's just before it.'’

"Look, there is a good chance that you'll be coming back [early]," he said. "There is a chance you could stay out there. We may feel that if you get through to an IPL final that, maybe, that's the best thing to do. It might be that if there's only one of you then you'd let you go on and do that… we have to keep it pretty fluid."

"We've got to the point where actually, we think it's more important that you come back and that group gets together: the likes of Phil Salt, opening the batting for England, getting that role going with Jos Buttler.”

"You just want them to get together and spend a bit of time and build up to it. So much of what our white-ball team has done has been turning up a couple of days before and, bang, we're into a series, whereas I think that Pakistan series is going to be important for that, so they'll all come back ready for that.”

"You want people to really start understanding what their roles are, what your best XI is going to be, and that's what we want to make sure: when we hit Barbados, we know exactly what that is. Last time, for the [50-over] World Cup, Adil Rashid was injured in that series versus New Zealand and we probably didn't take into account how much, when he came back, that altered the balance."​
 

[Report] England players set to skip Pakistan T20I series to make themselves available for IPL 2024 playoffs​

The BCCI and the ECB are negotiating the availability of England's white-ball players for the Indian Premier League (IPL) 2024 playoffs. England players like Jos Buttler and Phil Salt might miss the upcoming four-match T20I series against Pakistan to be available for the playoffs of the Indian T20 tournament.

As the ongoing T20 tournament has crossed the halfway mark, teams are competing for a spot in the top four. Rajasthan Royals (RR) lead the points table, closely followed by Kolkata Knight Riders (KKR). The teams almost sealed their playoff berth, while other teams are competing for the remaining places.

The IPL playoffs are set to take place from May 21 to May 26 at the MA Chidambaram Stadium in Chennai. The playoffs schedule coincides with England's four-match T20I series against Pakistan at home. This scheduling clash poses a challenge for English players who are part of both competitions.

The ECB clarified that players selected for the T20 World Cup would have to return to national duty for the home series against Pakistan, starting on May 22. England's team managing director, Rob Key, stated that captain Jos Buttler advocated for English players to withdraw from the IPL playoffs.

"Selected players, currently playing in the Indian Premier League, will return in time for the series against Pakistan, which gets underway at Headingley on Wednesday 22 May 2024," the statement read.

Source: Times Now
 
Yea it seems like Franchisees are not willing to release them. BCCI has no choice but to negotiate with ECB.
 
Report - The BCCI is negotiating with the ECB to secure England players availability at a crucial time of IPL 2024
 
This is a big moment for Rob Key and the ECB.

They are in a catch 22 situation and could get a real pasting if England's world cup doesn't go to plan
 
NZ will continue to do this, if teams like Pakistan let their C team win.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This is a big moment for Rob Key and the ECB.

They are in a catch 22 situation and could get a real pasting if England's world cup doesn't go to plan
Click to expand...
From a preparation standpoint not a big deal. Buttler the captain may be missing. But they are a professional unit. They won't feel the pinch if they lose 3 or 4 players. They are doing the exact roless there in IPL.

Salt an opener for KKR opener for ENgland
Buttler an opener for RR opener for England
Moeen can be released. CSK doesn't need him.
All the other guys are from teams that will never make the playoffs.

So it is not a big deal
 
jnaveen1980 said:
From a preparation standpoint not a big deal. Buttler the captain may be missing. But they are a professional unit. They won't feel the pinch if they lose 3 or 4 players. They are doing the exact roless there in IPL.

Salt an opener for KKR opener for ENgland
Buttler an opener for RR opener for England
Moeen can be released. CSK doesn't need him.
All the other guys are from teams that will never make the playoffs.

So it is not a big deal
Click to expand...
English media will see it differently if they have a poor world cup.
 
it is all about priority. ECB wants to win big so they want their A team to prepare well for playing the upcoming series while on the other hand, Kiwi players chose IPL over national duty. It shows that their priority is money.
 
BouncerGuy said:
it is all about priority. ECB wants to win big so they want their A team to prepare well for playing the upcoming series while on the other hand, Kiwi players chose IPL over national duty. It shows that their priority is money.
Click to expand...
It's because NZ board is the lowest paid board. Only gets 9M from ICC, While England is the 3rd richest board with Pakistan being the 4th richest at 55M.

BCCI is the richest with 250M
 
mominsaigol said:
It's because NZ board is the lowest paid board. Only gets 9M from ICC, While England is the 3rd richest board with Pakistan being the 4th richest at 55M.

BCCI is the richest with 250M
Click to expand...
Yeah because they do not have a champion mentality. They are happy with knockout exits.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Yeah because they do not have a champion mentality. They are happy with knockout exits.
Click to expand...
NZ has a champions mentality?

They literally wanted to win 2015 and 2019, 2019 was unlucky as heck for them.

It's just everytime they manage to reach finals or seminfinals, they have the displeasure of either getting unlucky or Australia just cones in mind haxes everyone.

Their probs the most unluckiest cricketing team to play tournaments in the past decade lol.
 
mominsaigol said:
NZ has a champions mentality?

They literally wanted to win 2015 and 2019, 2019 was unlucky as heck for them.

It's just everytime they manage to reach finals or seminfinals, they have the displeasure of either getting unlucky or Australia just cones in mind haxes everyone.

Their probs the most unluckiest cricketing team to play tournaments in the past decade lol.
Click to expand...
They are unlucky every time? Not every time I guess but yes, they and South Africa deserve this kind of unlucky stuff when they prioritize IPL and Money over National duty.
 
BouncerGuy said:
They are unlucky every time? Not every time I guess but yes, they and South Africa deserve this kind of unlucky stuff when they prioritize IPL and Money over National duty.
Click to expand...
Yes they are because

A) 2015 Australia was too strong and NZ has always had a habit of just being a mental midget against Australia in the same way Pakistan even when it's strong enough to compete against india like it was during 2022, Pakistan has a habit of going mental midget mode.

B) England 2019 was 100% unlucky, the deflection was stupid but even ignoring that, another super over should have been given, the idea that England wins on a tie was silly.

As for SA, SA has always been a poor chasing team, idkw but their weaker then minnows when chasing but their the strongest batting team scoring 400+ or 220+ when batting first. In other words, Until they become a good chasing side which they have not for over a decade, they will never win a cup considering Nedtherlands can just neutralise them if SA is chasing lol.
 
mominsaigol said:
Yes they are because

A) 2015 Australia was too strong and NZ has always had a habit of just being a mental midget against Australia in the same way Pakistan even when it's strong enough to compete against india like it was during 2022, Pakistan has a habit of going mental midget mode.

B) England 2019 was 100% unlucky, the deflection was stupid but even ignoring that, another super over should have been given, the idea that England wins on a tie was silly.

As for SA, SA has always been a poor chasing team, idkw but their weaker then minnows when chasing but their the strongest batting team scoring 400+ or 220+ when batting first. In other words, Until they become a good chasing side which they have not for over a decade, they will never win a cup considering Nedtherlands can just neutralise them if SA is chasing lol.
Click to expand...
But do you think it is fair to send your main players to IPL or even if the players themselves chose to go for leagues instead of their national duty?

I am not talking about unlucky or not, I am talking about priority.
 
BouncerGuy said:
But do you think it is fair to send your main players to IPL or even if the players themselves chose to go for leagues instead of their national duty?

I am not talking about unlucky or not, I am talking about priority.
Click to expand...
It depends. In terns of last year

Ipl let NZ determine that rachin is perfect as an opener in Indian conditions and ODI nowadays is an extension of t20. I don't think Rachin would have developed the way he did last year against a single opposition on pakistani conditions. He developed because he's facing bowlers who will be in the world cup under Indian conditions.

Similarly for this year, while aren't playing in India, IPL is still a t20 tournament where top quality bowlers in the league will represent their side so it'll probs be practise. England even now is still pondering whether some of their players might miss out due to IPL knockouts. Their still some questions on 2 or 3 players not joining.

So IPL is a way to develop, only disadvantage with IPL is that teams don't gell well which is why it's important to have atleast 1 or 2 series with your full strength before the world cup to figure out your gelling capabilities.

Lastly the boards don't care much about national duty, you think a board like CA cared if Cummings ignored A few tours to play IPL? Nope cause the wc victory is what really mattered at the end of the day.

Problem with PSL is that it's a crap league, with fewer teams, fewer international level players, Aka a burnt out guptil is playing as frontline lol etc etc.
 
mominsaigol said:
It depends. In terns of last year

Ipl let NZ determine that rachin is perfect as an opener in Indian conditions and ODI nowadays is an extension of t20. I don't think Rachin would have developed the way he did last year against a single opposition on pakistani conditions. He developed because he's facing bowlers who will be in the world cup under Indian conditions.

Similarly for this year, while aren't playing in India, IPL is still a t20 tournament where top quality bowlers in the league will represent their side so it'll probs be practise. England even now is still pondering whether some of their players might miss out due to IPL knockouts. Their still some questions on 2 or 3 players not joining.

So IPL is a way to develop, only disadvantage with IPL is that teams don't gell well which is why it's important to have atleast 1 or 2 series with your full strength before the world cup to figure out your gelling capabilities.

Lastly the boards don't care much about national duty, you think a board like CA cared if Cummings ignored A few tours to play IPL? Nope cause the wc victory is what really mattered at the end of the day.

Problem with PSL is that it's a crap league, with fewer teams, fewer international level players, Aka a burnt out guptil is playing as frontline lol etc etc.
Click to expand...
Ok so IPL develops players more than international games? 280 is being scored their. What development can we expect? England did the right thing by calling their players back because they know that international cricket is worth more than any other league. England has to defend their title so they know leagues are not going to help more than the national duty.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Ok so IPL develops players more than international games? 280 is being scored their. What development can we expect? England did the right thing by calling their players back because they know that international cricket is worth more than any other league. England has to defend their title so they know leagues are not going to help more than the national duty.
Click to expand...
England called their players back, because we are close to the cup so we need to gell teams.

But thanks to IPL people like mcfraser are being noticed. And while Jake didn't get selected, he is in reserves.

Similarly if it wasn't for IPL, India would still be taking Gill to the tournament, its because of gill's lack of IPL form they've decided against it. Granted bcci is still biased on taking their seniors despite lack of form especially in pandya case.

As for 280 being scored. We might actually get those scores considering the no of minnows being played this year, if England can score 498 against Nedtherlands then why not?

The thing you're not understanding is that we need all 3 for a player to develop.

A) Leagues
B) Money
C) International.

Leagues help a player because money is motivation + Leagues have flexibility, players can explore where they bat or bowl best at, like abass afridi discovered he's a great bowler outside the PP but terrible inside the PP. Plus it helps players make a living and interact with seniors outside of their home country where they can develop.

International is good for gelling teams and trying new combo's. NZ has the right idea for having their seniors play in Leagues but their juniors play in international, its how they'll develop people like Chapman, Robinson, siefert etc etc once their mains retire

PCB has the wrong idea of playing full strength 24/7. Doing this has prevented many of our talents from developing.

1) Abdullah (Undercooked as he had zero games to prepare until he was shoved haphazirdly into a semi final against Sri Lanka in asia cup)

2) Saud shakeel (Can't discover his flow due to rizwan coming in and forcing shakeel to bat when wickets have fallen early or when not enough overs remain)

3) Tayyab (Discarded for no reason)

4) Haris (Was poor in league bit not given enough leeway, instead hasebullah is here due to balochi representation)

^^ I can name atleast 15 more players but you get the point.

NZ has the right idea, we have the wrong idea fam.
 
Why do these guys don't prefer their national commitments over franchise duties.
====
Josh Little will stay at the IPL until Gujarat Titans' final game, with Cricket Ireland allowing him to miss their T20I series against Pakistan and tri-series in the Netherlands which form the basis of their preparation for June's T20 World Cup.

Ireland's selectors named a 15-man provisional squad for the World Cup on Tuesday, which is unchanged from the squad which faced Afghanistan in their most recent T20I series. The same group will face Pakistan in three T20Is, starting in Dublin on Friday, then will play a tri-series with Netherlands and Scotland from May 19-24
 
RR have made the playoffs. Will Jos Butler stay for the full season?

Eng-Pak series starts 22nd. RR have at least 2 games if not 3 starting 21st.

Has the ECB made a decision? Butler the England captain, will he play for Eng or RR?
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Why do these guys don't prefer their national commitments over franchise duties.
====
Josh Little will stay at the IPL until Gujarat Titans' final game, with Cricket Ireland allowing him to miss their T20I series against Pakistan and tri-series in the Netherlands which form the basis of their preparation for June's T20 World Cup.

Ireland's selectors named a 15-man provisional squad for the World Cup on Tuesday, which is unchanged from the squad which faced Afghanistan in their most recent T20I series. The same group will face Pakistan in three T20Is, starting in Dublin on Friday, then will play a tri-series with Netherlands and Scotland from May 19-24
Click to expand...

If you look carefully even without IPL most of these guys don't play bilateral T20sThis format is a fun entertainment format that is used by other countries to give exposure to their upcoming potential. I don't think anyone cares about bilateral results. Besides, there is no better preparation than a high-pressure IPL environment where you play in front of 50000 people. Only for the sake of gelling England may ask them to join. But if IPL strikes a deal they won't come.
 
U$ofA said:
RR have made the playoffs. Will Jos Butler stay for the full season?

Eng-Pak series starts 22nd. RR have at least 2 games if not 3 starting 21st.

Has the ECB made a decision? Butler the England captain, will he play for Eng or RR?
Click to expand...

It is up to players. As per Rob key buttler himself wanted to come. But not sure if RR convinces Buttler, ECB has no choice but to go with some other guy as leader. May be Malan?
 
U$ofA said:
RR have made the playoffs. Will Jos Butler stay for the full season?

Eng-Pak series starts 22nd. RR have at least 2 games if not 3 starting 21st.

Has the ECB made a decision? Butler the England captain, will he play for Eng or RR?
Click to expand...
England has already called its players back for the series and all the players have committed that they will be back to play for the national team. Good thing that they are preferring nation over money making leagues.
 
BouncerGuy said:
England has already called its players back for the series and all the players have committed that they will be back to play for the national team. Good thing that they are preferring nation over money making leagues.
Click to expand...
Aren't the ECB making money from the money making leagues?

They get money from the money making leagues by just issuing a no objection certificate.

I am guessing the understanding with the IPL is already in place. To allow the franchises to let go of players for national duty. The right way to do it. Without shaking the apple cart!
 
U$ofA said:
To allow the franchises to let go of players for national duty. The right way to do it. Without shaking the apple cart!
Click to expand...
The right thing to do for the players is to go ahead and prefer national duty over any other stuff. If they refuse then there is a serious problem with their priority.
 
BouncerGuy said:
The right thing to do for the players is to go ahead and prefer national duty over any other stuff. If they refuse then there is a serious problem with their priority.
Click to expand...
Their priority should (an likely is) be to secure their future. Whatever that means to each one of them.

In this case, they are obligated to play for Eng. given that they are under contract.
 
Buttler still playing for RR today. RR's has a couple of more regular season games. Last regular season game on the 19th. Is he planning on playing till the 19th and then get on a plane change and walk in for the toss?
 
New Zealand got owned by Afghanistan today in the ICC T20 World Cup game. New Zealand's main players skipped the Pakistan tour to play in the IPL and didn't possibly pay attention to the World Cup.

And today, they have to pay for that lack of sense for National duty. Afghanistan took them to cleaners.
 
BouncerGuy said:
New Zealand got owned by Afghanistan today in the ICC T20 World Cup game. New Zealand's main players skipped the Pakistan tour to play in the IPL and didn't possibly pay attention to the World Cup.

And today, they have to pay for that lack of sense for National duty. Afghanistan took them to cleaners.
Click to expand...
If this is the excuse then Pakistan should have win the world T20 as they were not participated in IPL .but wait Pakistan lost to USA.
South Africa , Australia all teams players were played in IPL and they are performing well so this is just excuse.
 
NZ is the England of this cup.

England in 2023 did exactly the same thing, Bring back players like root, Stokes, bairstow aka players who hadn't played odi for 4 years and all flunked.

NZ has done the same, Aka make a team of players who haven't played t20 for months
 
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