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[EXCLUSIVE] David Lloyd: "You can play against them, but you won't let their fans come and watch them"

MenInG

MenInG

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Saj chats with David 'Bumbe' Lloyd about whether the World Cup has caught the imagination of the public, England's struggles, what's gone wrong? Pakistan's timid approach and style of cricket at the World Cup, former players criticism of Pakistani players. Visa issues for Pakistani fans, which of New Zealand, Australia or South Africa can stop India and the toughest jobs in cricket.

 
I completely agree with David Lloyd's assessment here that Pakistan's hesitancy in this tournament has been a significant factor in their decline with the midset of 250 or 260 target you can't compete on such a big stage.
 
He's very candid. I liked his point about how its appalling how our ex-players always put down our current players.

What is funny, though, is that while every player hates being criticized by their predecessor, they will also end up doing the same thing to players who replace them
 
I wonder how the Boards of other nations would have reacted if their fans were not allowed to enter India, as the Pakistani fans were.

Weak PCB bowing down to others once again.

Let's see if India comes to Pakistan for the Champions Trophy? I highly doubt it.
 
Saj said:
I wonder how the Boards of other nations would have reacted if their fans were not allowed to enter India, as the Pakistani fans were.

Weak PCB bowing down to others once again.

Let's see if India comes to Pakistan for the Champions Trophy? I highly doubt it.
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No chance india will be coming, unless BJP are not in power.

Highly likely it will be played in a alternative country.
 
In Sha Allah a Pakistani party will be in charge of India in 2025 and we will see India Vs Pakistan at Gaddafi Stadium in front of the millions
 
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Saj said:
I wonder how the Boards of other nations would have reacted if their fans were not allowed to enter India, as the Pakistani fans were.

Weak PCB bowing down to others once again.

Let's see if India comes to Pakistan for the Champions Trophy? I highly doubt it.
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India will, as will their fans because for all its problems, the Pakistani government is not petulant little child that the modi government is.

What will be detrimental is if India does well. Then there will be endless chest pounding and jingoism.
 
Enjoyed the conversation, Saj.

I always loved listening to Bumble's commentary and couldn't agree more with his views on the topic discussed (Pakistan fans' part). Just wish for things to get better in the coming years (not only for the fans but for both countries).

Cheers!
 
captain.hansolo said:
India will, as will their fans because for all its problems, the Pakistani government is not petulant little child that the modi government is.

What will be detrimental is if India does well. Then there will be endless chest pounding and jingoism.
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Not the reverse? There was no chest thumping in 2017 or 2021?? Both sides of the border indulge in all you have mentioned and perhaps might be worth mentioning who cut the ties first. Offcourse GOI is not blameless and has more than its share of idiocy, but some perespective please and not acting as an innocent victim all the time.
 
I love bumble. Really miss him on our screens. Sky made a mistake getting rid of some of the old timers, their perspective and experience gave an alternative view on the game. Some of the new analysts ( I wont name names) have been terrible in comparison.

His point about players embracing the pressure is a good one. You can see it in some of the Indian players that they relish a challenge, they relish proving their doubters wrong and it motivates them.

The only issue is that our media is far far more toxic than theirs when it comes to self criticism and their board is strong while ours is a joke.

But still I would like some of our players to rise to the challenge a bit more.
 
aboveandbeyond said:
No chance india will be coming, unless BJP are not in power.

Highly likely it will be played in a alternative country.
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Yet Zaka and co have been bending over backwards to keep BCCI happy.

If Zaka thinks BCCI will return the favour, he's living in cloud cuckoo land.
 
I love bumble. Really miss him on our screens. Sky made a mistake getting rid of some of the old timers, their perspective and experience gave an alternative view on the game. Some of the new analysts ( I wont name names) have been terrible in comparison.
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Absolutely. He was a natural, funny, and had a great rapport with his co-commentators.

Bumble and Mikey Holding not commentating is a huge loss for Sky.
 
Bumble probably has no idea about Indo-Pak relationship and the history.

India played Pakistan because ICC fixture made that arrangement.

But giving visas to fans is something that no board can force any government on, unless the Visas are for the participants.

Last time a large number of pakistanis didn't return home after attending a match in India. No one is going to take that risk again.

Regards to the 2025 CT, there is a slim chance that India may visit pakistan as thr government may make an exception for a ICC event. But its a very slim chance.
 
Really miss Bumble commentary he was a character.

My favourite quote from Bumble:

Ian Botham: "Where were you last night?"

David Lloyd: "An oyster bar - apparently it puts lead in your pencil. I don't know about that. I think it only matters if you have got someone to write to"
 
Saj Bhai

Next time you speak to Bumble ask him to apply for a coaching role within the PCB

Cant do worse than hybrid coach Mickey Arthur
 
Double Trouble said:
Saj Bhai

Next time you speak to Bumble ask him to apply for a coaching role within the PCB

Cant do worse than hybrid coach Mickey Arthur
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Did you see his answer to the Chief Selector question at the end? :)
 
cricketjoshila said:
Bumble probably has no idea about Indo-Pak relationship and the history.

India played Pakistan because ICC fixture made that arrangement.

But giving visas to fans is something that no board can force any government on, unless the Visas are for the participants.

Last time a large number of pakistanis didn't return home after attending a match in India. No one is going to take that risk again.

Regards to the 2025 CT, there is a slim chance that India may visit pakistan as thr government may make an exception for a ICC event. But its a very slim chance.
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You can make up whatever excuses you want regarding the visa issue.

But to not give fans who were going to watch a cricket tournament visas, is frankly embarrassing.
 
Saj said:
You can make up whatever excuses you want regarding the visa issue.

But to not give fans who were going to watch a cricket tournament visas, is frankly embarrassing.
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Last time many pakistanis who came to watch the match disappeared. Who will take such a security risk?
 
cricketjoshila said:
Last time many pakistanis who came to watch the match disappeared. Who will take such a security risk?
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Good excuse that.

Every football World Cup, fans disappear when attending the tournament.

Sometimes even athletes go missing at Olympics.

Does that mean every fan from those nations don't get visas? No it does not.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Bumble probably has no idea about Indo-Pak relationship and the history.

India played Pakistan because ICC fixture made that arrangement.

But giving visas to fans is something that no board can force any government on, unless the Visas are for the participants.

Last time a large number of pakistanis didn't return home after attending a match in India. No one is going to take that risk again.

Regards to the 2025 CT, there is a slim chance that India may visit pakistan as thr government may make an exception for a ICC event. But its a very slim chance.
Click to expand...
Unless there is major change or breakthrough between India and Pakistan relationship. There was short tour of India by Pakistan, back in 2012 (Anay du tour). Although it seems unlikely but one day the relationships will improve (hopefully)
 
cricketjoshila said:
Last time many pakistanis who came to watch the match disappeared. Who will take such a security risk?
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Is this the official reason why the Indian government or are you just making things up as usual.

Please send a link to an official statement from the Indian government
 
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Saj said:
Did you see his answer to the Chief Selector question at the end? :)
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Just watch the last part.

Bumble couldn’t stop laughing at the question of being chief selector.

As he mentioned you can’t come 2nd playing for PK - Any job within the establishment is suicidal lol
 
Saj said:
Good excuse that.

Every football World Cup, fans disappear when attending the tournament.

Sometimes even athletes go missing at Olympics.

Does that mean every fan from those nations don't get visas? No it does not.
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Are those countries in a perpetual state of war with the host?
 
cricketjoshila said:
Are those countries in a perpetual state of war with the host?
Click to expand...

Any sane follower of this game, such as Bumble, will ask the same question.

Not allowing fans of a certain team to ensure they get no support for their games is pathetic and needs to be condemned, which it has been by all quarters except of course by some Indians.
 
MenInG said:
Any sane follower of this game, such as Bumble, will ask the same question.

Not allowing fans of a certain team to ensure they get no support for their games is pathetic and needs to be condemned, which it has been by all quarters except of course by some Indians.
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Not allowing citizens of a country that may create a future security risk is sensible.

Security of Indians matter more than the opinion of anyone quarter.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Not allowing citizens of a country that may create a future security risk is sensible.

Security of Indians matter more than the opinion of anyone quarter.
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Then don't host a tournament for a game loved by many others outside India.
 
MenInG said:
Then don't host a tournament for a game loved by many others outside India.
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Raise the issue with ICC and other boards. Let them take away India's hosting rights.

Every other country's fans got visas. So there are no "many others".
 
cricketjoshila said:
Raise the issue with ICC and other boards. Let them take away India's hosting rights.

Every other country's fans got visas. So there are no "many others".
Click to expand...

The issue is being raised by Bumble in an interview, he is stating his opinion - what has ICC got to do with it?

As is normal, you spare no moment to somehow denigrate Pakistan in every thread you can find.

In this whole interview with Bumble, all you could find was one comment on this.

Well done.
 
Saj said:
I wonder how the Boards of other nations would have reacted if their fans were not allowed to enter India, as the Pakistani fans were.

Weak PCB bowing down to others once again.

Let's see if India comes to Pakistan for the Champions Trophy? I highly doubt it.
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It is what it is. Having a very weak Captain and selecting a squad with so many holes (read not even specialist spinners) did not help. I can name many other teams who would have thrived in such a situation, the hostile environment makes the tough minds stand and deliver.
 
pakistani pride said:
It is what it is. Having a very weak Captain and selecting a squad with so many holes (read not even specialist spinners) did not help. I can name many other teams who would have thrived in such a situation, the hostile environment makes the tough minds stand and deliver.
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Absolutely.

It would have been an incentive to show the hosts what they can achieve in this situation where none of their fans have been allowed to enter India.

Instead our players have meekly surrendered every time the going has got tough.

They are not cornered tigers, barely tabby cats.
 
MenInG said:
The issue is being raised by Bumble in an interview, he is stating his opinion - what has ICC got to do with it?

As is normal, you spare no moment to somehow denigrate Pakistan in every thread you can find.

In this whole interview with Bumble, all you could find was one comment on this.

Well done.
Click to expand...

You only said India should not be hosting a tournament. That decision has to be taken by ICC.

There is a difference between Pakistan and the State of Pakistan.

Bumble comments on IPL and pakistanis then on the issue of fans from Pakistan not getting visa without knowing the reasons.
 
It’s funny how the only ones still defending this tournament are Indian nationalists. Cricketers from all nations, including their fans, have recognized it for the farce that it is.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You only said India should not be hosting a tournament. That decision has to be taken by ICC.

There is a difference between Pakistan and the State of Pakistan.

Bumble comments on IPL and pakistanis then on the issue of fans from Pakistan not getting visa without knowing the reasons.
Click to expand...

He's a sports followers as are all of us here so we don't find his comments strange.
 
cricketjoshila said:
How are you so sure there are no spies amongst them?
Click to expand...


He doesn't but then how are you not sure that amongst millions of Indian fans sitting and watching games, there are no serial killers, thieves etc?

This is how societies function. You have all sorts of people, you have ways to deal with it. You don't shut off a whole nation's access to watch their team and then pretend to hold an international tournament.

Bro, It's fine to criticize India once in a while. It's not an issue. Say it as it is.
 
160KPH said:
It’s funny how the only ones still defending this tournament are Indian nationalists. Cricketers from all nations, including their fans, have recognized it for the farce that it is.
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Its amusing how pakistanis have been trying to discredit the tournament from day one. Using every thing to create false controversies.
 
cricketjoshila said:
He is far removed from reality.
Click to expand...

He is a neutral observer wondering why sports fans from one country are not being allowed.

If there is fear of Pakistan spies then by all means check their applications - get more staff in, use AI etc but don't use it as a political weapon to show down Pakistan.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Its amusing how pakistanis have been trying to discredit the tournament from day one. Using every thing to create false controversies.
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The entire world has been laughing at the manner this tournament was put on including the empty stadiums and the lack of close games.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Its amusing how pakistanis have been trying to discredit the tournament from day one. Using every thing to create false controversies.
Click to expand...
Bumble pointing out the visa issue is not a Pakistani trying to discredit the tournament.

It's a reasonable point that he has made.
 
cricketjoshila said:
How are you so sure there are no spies amongst them?
Click to expand...
How are you sure that there are no Indian fans at the stadiums who would want to attack Pakistani fans?

It's the risk ALL take by allowing fans to attend sporting occasions.
 
160KPH said:
The entire world has been laughing at the manner this tournament was put on including the empty stadiums and the lack of close games.
Click to expand...

India has some of the biggest stadiums in the world, not 20-25k stadiums that are seen in most of the world.

So even 25k people will look like half empty in most stadiums.

The one's whining the most are from India's Western side. I am not surprised.
 
Saj said:
How are you sure that there are no Indian fans at the stadiums who would want to attack Pakistani fans?

It's the risk ALL take by allowing fans to attend sporting occasions.
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That's why there is tight security. For every eventuality.

All dont allow fans from absolute hostile state with history of 4 wars.

Let's be honest here, you will have a Pakistani point of view and I will have an Indian point and more often than not, those views won't match.

Let's agree to disagree.
 
MenInG said:
He doesn't but then how are you not sure that amongst millions of Indian fans sitting and watching games, there are no serial killers, thieves etc?

This is how societies function. You have all sorts of people, you have ways to deal with it. You don't shut off a whole nation's access to watch their team and then pretend to hold an international tournament.

Bro, It's fine to criticize India once in a while. It's not an issue. Say it as it is.
Click to expand...

That's why we have stadium security.

We are not pretending, we are actually holding the world cup and have given very limited visas to pakistanis.

If my information is correct only those pakistanis who had a local sponsor in India have been given visa. If possible please can you confirm this?

There's a lot of things in India that can be criticized, security policy isn't one of them.

From the dark days of 2000s when we had terror attacks on many major cities to today, when there is hardly any terrorist attack outside J and K, we have come a long way. I would not compromise on security for anything.

If we don't host another event because we don't give easy visas to one country, so be it.
 
cricketjoshila said:
That's why we have stadium security.

We are not pretending, we are actually holding the world cup and have given very limited visas to pakistanis.

If my information is correct only those pakistanis who had a local sponsor in India have been given visa. If possible please can you confirm this?

There's a lot of things in India that can be criticized, security policy isn't one of them.

From the dark days of 2000s when we had terror attacks on many major cities to today, when there is hardly any terrorist attack outside J and K, we have come a long way. I would not compromise on security for anything.

If we don't host another event because we don't give easy visas to one country, so be it.
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Once again.

Typical reaction.

Your 2000 attacks did not happen because you let in 30 spectators into a stadium.
 
cricketjoshila said:
That's why there is tight security. For every eventuality.

All dont allow fans from absolute hostile state with history of 4 wars.

Let's be honest here, you will have a Pakistani point of view and I will have an Indian point and more often than not, those views won't match.

Let's agree to disagree.
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Yet PCB would be the first to roll out the welcome mat to Indian fans if they wanted to come to Pakistan.

That's the difference in mentality.
 
Keep on making the same old tired excuses, India do not want a competitive cricketing neighbour that can test them on a annual basis, I mean the Pakistan players aren’t even allowed to be in the IPL, unless the Indian government deem them a security risk also!
 
Bumble is a legend, great interview as always Saj.

Pak knew the fans wouldnt be allowed in and personally as a Pak fan, I would never travel to spend money in India even if Pak or England were playing each other in the final.
 
Thephenom said:
Keep on making the same old tired excuses, India do not want a competitive cricketing neighbour that can test them on a annual basis, I mean the Pakistan players aren’t even allowed to be in the IPL, unless the Indian government deem them a security risk also!
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If it was not the WC, Pakistani cricketers won't be allowed in India now also. Employment visas for pakistanis are simply not issued.

Its not India's responsibility to make pakistani team competitive or provide pakistani players with employment.
 
cricketjoshila said:
If it was not the WC, Pakistani cricketers won't be allowed in India now also. Employment visas for pakistanis are simply not issued.

Its not India's responsibility to make pakistani team competitive or provide pakistani players with employment.
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And that's why many including Bumble feel that Pakistan should have boycotted the ongoing World Cup.
 
Saj said:
And that's why many including Bumble feel that Pakistan should have boycotted the ongoing World Cup.
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And who would compensate PCB for the loss of revenue?

Rameez Raja said 50 per cent of PCB revenues comes from ICC.

How will PCB make that up?

Saying boycott it is easy, but there are consequences that follow.
 
cricketjoshila said:
And who would compensate PCB for the loss of revenue?

Rameez Raja said 50 per cent of PCB revenues comes from ICC.

How will PCB make that up?

Saying boycott it is easy, but there are consequences that follow.
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I think you are dreaming if you think Pakistan cricket would end that easily.

Maybe that's your fantasy, but Pakistan cricket always has ways of surviving.
 
It will be interesting to see what excuses BCCI will come up with for the Champions Trophy.

Better start working on those excuses now to get it moved elsewhere.
 
Saj said:
It will be interesting to see what excuses BCCI will come up with for the Champions Trophy.

Better start working on those excuses now to get it moved elsewhere.
Click to expand...
If Modi Government elected back to power next year its a foregone conclusion that India will not visit Pakistan in 2025. Unless in the 3rd term Modi and whoever gets "selected" in Feb decide to mend relationship between the 2 countries. But I wish India goes to Pakistan. There are millions of Kohli and Rohit fans in Pakistan and that tournament may be the last for both the legendary cricketers. But we the public on both sides can only wish as its the higher powers that decide.
 
Saj said:
It will be interesting to see what excuses BCCI will come up with for the Champions Trophy.

Better start working on those excuses now to get it moved elsewhere.
Click to expand...

The reason is simple. Government won't give permission.

Its better PCB starts convincing ICC and other boards to play without India.
 
cricketjoshila said:
The reason is simple. Government won't give permission.

Its better PCB starts convincing ICC and other boards to play without India.
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They don't need to convince them.

Most have recently played in Pakistan without any issues and will be fine to play there.
 
Saj said:
They don't need to convince them.

Most have recently played in Pakistan without any issues and will be fine to play there.
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Then CT 2025 should go ahead without Indian team's participation.
 
Top interview! Shooting from the hip style. I really miss Bumble in the SKY commentary box.

Some apologists are rattled, because it is the white man/non Pakistanis, saying what Pakistanis have been saying all along.
 
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cricketjoshila said:
The reason is simple. Government won't give permission.

Its better PCB starts convincing ICC and other boards to play without India.
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PCB needs to convince itself first if CT25 can happen without India participation.
It failed to do the same for Asia cup.
 
I don't think that the ICC will move forward with the idea of having a Champions trophy without India's participation. We might see a move away from Pakistan to UAE.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
But India will not allow it to happen.

Watch them lobby ICC to move it out of Pakistan.
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India will not play in Pakistan. Now its upto ICC and other members to decide whether they play in Pakistan without India or move the tournament.

If ICC members and ICC decide to play in Pakistan then BCCI cannot do jack.

Personally i don't have any problems if the tournament is held in Pakistan without India.
 
cricketjoshila said:
India will not play in Pakistan. Now its upto ICC and other members to decide whether they play in Pakistan without India or move the tournament.

If ICC members and ICC decide to play in Pakistan then BCCI cannot do jack.

Personally i don't have any problems if the tournament is held in Pakistan without India.
Click to expand...

I wish that were true but you and I both know BCCI will use IPL contract leverage.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Then CT 2025 should go ahead without Indian team's participation.
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Absolutely it should.

And I hope it will, as it will show India and the BCCI that cricket does not just revolve around them.

But cricket is filthy, we know what underhand tactics will go on behind the scenes to convince Boards not to play in Pakistan.
 
The only reason why BCCI is desperate for a single match per year against Pakistan is simply because one match is the biggest revenue generator for BCCI. One match between Pakistan and India earns more revenue compared to an IPL season.

This Is why BCCI along with GoI, and yes there is a connection given Jay Shah, will cowardly deny visas for Pakistan fans, but will never, EVER, have the courage to deny the Pakistan team from playing in India, or refuse point blank to play Pakistan elsewhere.

Think about it, if India doesn't want to play Pakistan, then why doesn't the BCCI simply refuse outright to play Pakistan across all comps? Boycott Pakistan should be their motto!

To top it off, you got Indians claiming the rivalry is dead. Nope, it is alive, and it is the ultimate cash cow for the BCCI for an eternity, more than the IPL, more than an ICC comp, more than any bilateral.

This is why BCCI begged the ICC to ensure there is always a Pakistan vs India clash in any white ball ICC tournament.
 
Agree with lloyd

India are trying too hard to be the new Japan of the Eastern world
Everyone likes bollywood and badshah but not many people like lynching mobs and butchers

If you take gujarat out of the equation, there is no issue here
 
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Saj said:
Absolutely it should.

And I hope it will, as it will show India and the BCCI that cricket does not just revolve around them.

But cricket is filthy, we know what underhand tactics will go on behind the scenes to convince Boards not to play in Pakistan.
Click to expand...

It will take some convincing from the PCB, so that the boards are ready to take a massive haircut. As revenue will fall by a massive 70-80 per cent due to India's absence.

OTOH Government of Pakistan can chip in and help PCB compensate ICC.
 
ghalib kichlu said:
Agree with lloyd

India are trying too hard to be the new Japan of the Eastern world
Everyone likes bollywood and badshah but not many people like lynching mobs and butchers

If you take gujarat out of the equation, there is no issue here
Click to expand...

I doubt Indians are very bothered about the likes and dislikes of its neighbours.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I wish that were true but you and I both know BCCI will use IPL contract leverage.
Click to expand...

What IPL contract leverage?

The leverage that BCCI has is that 90 per cent of ICC revenues come from India. Without Indian participation ICC revenue for that particular event will fall by 70-80 per cent.

All ICC and other boards have to do is agree to take that loss and move on.
 
Out of BCCI's projected revenue of 8bn plus in next 4-5 years, Only 920mn will come from ICC.
 
cricketjoshila said:
It will take some convincing from the PCB, so that the boards are ready to take a massive haircut. As revenue will fall by a massive 70-80 per cent due to India's absence.

OTOH Government of Pakistan can chip in and help PCB compensate ICC.
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If the Boards have the best interests of cricket at heart, they will go to Pakistan, as they have done recently.

But I won't be surprised if some snakes are working behind the scenes for that not to happen.

Time will tell, who really are friends of Pakistan cricket and who aren't.
 
Saj said:
If the Boards have the best interests of cricket at heart, they will go to Pakistan, as they have done recently.

But I won't be surprised if some snakes are working behind the scenes for that not to happen.

Time will tell, who really are friends of Pakistan cricket and who aren't.
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Its all about self interest and not friendship. There are millions at stake here for each board.

PCB should start asking Pakistani corporates and Pakistan government to chip in and raise the funds. That way they will not have to depend on anyone.
 
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