Fitness v Skill for the task: what’s more important?

[Rana]

So Shan was a classic example of new age Pakistan cricket fans and their management getting what they wanted.

Guys like me are usually shut down within a matter of minutes by these fans when I suggest that we need a gun opener like Sharjeel in the side. They would always tell me that the super fit and hardworking Shan is more deserving.

I mean, where are we heading with this approach?

 

[Liverpool_Faizan]

Your approach lacks critical thought or any sort of decent sports management.

Not saying the selectors are right in all their decisions but your idea is completely lack of any intelligence

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Generally in sports world, you cant fully make use of your "skill set" if you are not "Fit enough".

Isn't that common sense?

Both go hand in hand and we should be looking for good balance of both qualities in the player.

 

[Rana]

Generally in sports world, you cant fully make use of your "skill set" if you are not "Fit enough".

Isn't that common sense?

Both go hand in hand and we should be looking for good balance of both qualities in the player.

What is match fitness in that case? Not being able to match the requirement of the standard you are playing at but a great bleep test score?

 

[Justcrazy]

If I was selector I would play Sharjeel as opener without any doubt.

 

[NishanKonar]

Should not compromise on fitness - unless the player is extraordinary - like Rohit Sharma who apparently does not do Yo Yo tests

Sharjeel is not that level - and far worse fitness than even Rohit

 

[NishanKonar]

Problem with Sharjeel is not that he is not fit. He is ridiculously overweight. Honestly he will be butt of jokes if he plays in T20 WC. Plus will be huge liability on the field

Remember Nasir Jamshed during 2015 WC. He dropped a catch against West Indies and commentator joked that Nasir looks like some overweight uncle has inadvertently entered the ground

As a team Pakistan should strive for better standards

 

[Forum363]

Name a player with poor fitness who has been a decent cricketer in the history of the sport.

The likes of Inzamam and Rohit Sharma carry some extra weight but they’re definitely not overly unfit.

 

[Rana]

Problem with Sharjeel is not that he is not fit. He is ridiculously overweight. Honestly he will be butt of jokes if he plays in T20 WC. Plus will be huge liability on the field

Remember Nasir Jamshed during 2015 WC. He dropped a catch against West Indies and commentator joked that Nasir looks like some overweight uncle has inadvertently entered the ground

As a team Pakistan should strive for better standards

Well, that’s what we are doing…

And we are not exactly setting the world alight

 

[MenInG]

So Shan was a classic example of new age Pakistan cricket fans and their management getting what they wanted.

Guys like me are usually shut down within a matter of minutes by these fans when I suggest that we need a gun opener like Sharjeel in the side. They would always tell me that the super fit and hardworking Shan is more deserving.

I mean, where are we heading with this approach?

There is a thread with a quote from Sharjeel

You should bump that because I think that is your point here.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Question: how has Sharjeel been doing in the last couple of years? runs, strike rate? I know he did well in KPL but how about PSL? Domestic T20s?

 

[Rana]

Question: how has Sharjeel been doing in the last couple of years? runs, strike rate? I know he did well in KPL but how about PSL? Domestic T20s?

He’s been absolutely fine

He worked brilliantly for Sindh with Saim as openers

I will take the entire Sindh top 6 over this Pakistan side

 

[Sarwar89]

It is not about Sharjeel or Shan or Iftikhar/Khushdil etc, fact is Pakistan has slowly stopped producing very good highly skilled breed of cricketers long time ago. It actually goes back to 2002-03 era.

Look at Australia, Cameron Green who played a blinder today in Mohali, is not even in Australia’s T20 World cup squad.
If Cameron Green was Pakistani. I am sure, PCB & Wasim would have taken him with closed eyes. That is the gulf of talent.

We shall be thankful to Almighty that despite having less skillful teams we still have managed fo win 2009 T20 world cup & 2017 icc champions trophy & 2012 Asia cup.

Pakistan’s cricket since 2002-03 has been like this, every 6-7 years they manage to generate one gun performance in ICC event, then we go flat for next 5/6 years. But 1 odd icc trophy every 6-7 years keep current generation of fans happy & intact. Which is ok. Just enjoy this team, they have beaten India twice & Afghanistan twice in 1 year. They will embarrass you but in-between will give you memorable performance as well. So do not be too harsh on them. We do not have Maradona sitting in bench. Let’s be realistic. This lot whatever we have, make good use of them and enjoy keep beating India Afghanistsn & Bangladesh atleast ( this way your Ghar ke ijjat ) home honor will be safe.

 

[Forum363]

Question: how has Sharjeel been doing in the last couple of years? runs, strike rate? I know he did well in KPL but how about PSL? Domestic T20s?

Answer - click on this thread for Mohammad Faizan (post 15 by MenInG):

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Faizan-Batting-All-Rounder-from-Nankana-Sahib

Skip video to 1 minute 27 seconds.

/ End of thread.

 

[Champ_Pal]

For cricket, 80% skill and 20% fitness. Many greats of the game had poor fitness.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Everyone does not need Virat Kohli level of fitness but there should be a minimum standard of fitness and there should be absolutely no exception.

It would be a short sighted approach to bring in players who are well below the minimum standards of fitness. These players represent Pakistan on an international stage. What message does it send to aspiring cricketers if they see Sharjeel and Azam on the crease? We need to create a vision for future cricketers and stick to it. Pakistan needs to move on from the short sighted approach.

 

[ezhil]

With fitness without skill u are useless...with skill alone u can win few occassion....
With fitness ,skill finds its complete value

 

[reversehook]

1. Mental toughness
2. Skill/Talent
3. Fitness

 

[Mamoon]

The funny bit about this thread is the premise that Sharjeel is a gun opener. What guns are we talking about? Water guns?

The general premise is reasonable. Fitness will not come compensate for lack of skill. Shan is a talentless player who has turned himself into a below average player from a pathetic one, but his ceiling is too low to succeed in international cricket.

You can work with an unfit player provided that he has the skill, your job is then to make him fit.

Unfortunately or fortunately, Sharjeel is a rubbish even if you make him fit.

 

[Rajdeep]

It need to be a mix of both. Ofcourse skill is the main thing and of paramount importance. But you wouldn't even make it to the international cricket if you don't have requisite skill. But fitness is important too. Especially in today's world with all the conditioning facilities, a fat athlete is not acceptable. Players like Sharjeel may give you a quick 35 (17) balls but comes with the risk of -

A) Running his partner out.

B) Dropping catches in the field

C) Giving away runs due to misfields

Do you really think that 35(17) is worth enough?

 

[Farabi]

It need to be a mix of both. Ofcourse skill is the main thing and of paramount importance. But you wouldn't even make it to the international cricket if you don't have requisite skill. But fitness is important too. Especially in today's world with all the conditioning facilities, a fat athlete is not acceptable. Players like Sharjeel may give you a quick 35 (17) balls but comes with the risk of -

A) Running his partner out.

B) Dropping catches in the field

C) Giving away runs due to misfields

Do you really think that 35(17) is worth enough?

This is the most reasonable post that considers pros/cons

 

[Rana]

It need to be a mix of both. Ofcourse skill is the main thing and of paramount importance. But you wouldn't even make it to the international cricket if you don't have requisite skill. But fitness is important too. Especially in today's world with all the conditioning facilities, a fat athlete is not acceptable. Players like Sharjeel may give you a quick 35 (17) balls but comes with the risk of -

A) Running his partner out.

B) Dropping catches in the field

C) Giving away runs due to misfields

Do you really think that 35(17) is worth enough?

Run outs are part of the game. That has nothing to do with fitness. He is at more risk of running himself out

Pakistan has dropped God knows how many catches in the last 3 weeks with their fully fit side

Same with misfields. Why target one guy who looks like a liability but what about the highly fit athletes making the same mistake?

 

[Sadozai]

Run outs are part of the game. That has nothing to do with fitness. He is at more risk of running himself out

Pakistan has dropped God knows how many catches in the last 3 weeks with their fully fit side

Same with misfields. Why target one guy who looks like a liability but what about the highly fit athletes making the same mistake?

Non-smokers also can have cancer. So should we start smoking?

 

[Rana]

Non-smokers also can have cancer. So should we start smoking?

If you want. Go ahead. That’s your choice

 

[YousafTheBeast]

If you ask most people on this forum they’ll put a players attitude/behaviour and fitness over skill and talent.

Think about how many greats we would’ve lost if we followed this method of selection.

 

[TeamPak95]

Skill is more important than fitness but it comes down to how big the disparity is between the two. If a player has high skill levels but low fitness levels, then that player is not getting the absolute maximum output out of himself. If a player has high fitness levels but low skill levels, you are getting that player's maximum output, but that output bears little significance to the game.

From Sharjeel Khan's perspective, it is his power hitting capabilities vs his fitness. While he does have ball striking capabilities, his fitness for the purposes of running between the wickets is much to be desired. If teams manage to contain Sharjeel's boundary flow, then Sharjeel would have to resort to pinching those 1's, 2's and 3's that Rizwan and Babar expertly showcase. Problem is he's not able to and can only, on average on a ball-by-ball basis, get the 1's only. Also, whatever amount of runs he scores with the bat you can safely take away 10-ish of them (on a good day) as he isn't exactly a good fielder.

Sharjeel just scored 53 off 36 vs KPK (very good) so, in my opinion, if his fitness is gonna continue to be deplorable, at the very least the man's gotta go absolutely ballistic with the bat for there to be a chance at selection. He scored a hundred in the National T20 Cup and then followed that up with a string of 10s. I would prefer those string of 10s to be 25-30s at least. This might sound harsh but that's just how potentially detrimental his fitness could be if he is in the Pak setup.

Focusing on what he brings to the table in a match, the disparity between his ball striking skill-set and fitness is too big and Sharjeel needs to close that gap.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Answer - click on this thread for Mohammad Faizan (post 15 by MenInG):

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Faizan-Batting-All-Rounder-from-Nankana-Sahib

Skip video to 1 minute 27 seconds.

/ End of thread.

This is actually funny. Made my day.

I have tremendous belief in Sharjeel's ability - but he has proven himself to be a bad employee.

He needed to stake claim for his eligibility by doing all the things that are important to his selectors - fitness, attitude, hunger, focus. He has displayed none.

Raw talent alone isn't enough - or we'd have Vinod Kamli, Graeme Hick and Umar Akmal amongst the game's greats.

Putting Sharjeel into the team will be a backward step - even in this regressive team.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

He’s been absolutely fine

He worked brilliantly for Sindh with Saim as openers

I will take the entire Sindh top 6 over this Pakistan side

Is there a thread with numbers?

Even so, I just think he is past. Not talent, just attitude.

This from a vociforous past supporter.

 

[Forum363]

This is actually funny. Made my day.

I have tremendous belief in Sharjeel's ability - but he has proven himself to be a bad employee.

He needed to stake claim for his eligibility by doing all the things that are important to his selectors - fitness, attitude, hunger, focus. He has displayed none.

Raw talent alone isn't enough - or we'd have Vinod Kamli, Graeme Hick and Umar Akmal amongst the game's greats.

Putting Sharjeel into the team will be a backward step - even in this regressive team.

I wouldn't say he displayed none. He has certainly displayed hunger...

 

[Rana]

I wouldn't say he displayed none. He has certainly displayed hunger...

Shah’s hunger for improvement was for all to see

 

[Rana]

Is there a thread with numbers?

Even so, I just think he is past. Not talent, just attitude.

This from a vociforous past supporter.

Saim
Sharjeel
Saud
Omair
Sarfaraz
Mohammad Nawaz
Asif Ali
Shadab Khan
Harris Rauf
Shaheen
Wasim JR

This XI would probably be more competitive than the one we have right now

 

[Forum363]

Shah’s hunger for improvement was for all to see

And yet Shan plays all around the world, is highly regarded and started a bidding war with English counties.

Shareel... will continue to display his hunger in KPL/ Nat t20 and PSL for the next couple of years until his knees give way. But don't worry, you can continue to cheerlead his powerful sixes every time pakistan lose a game.

 

[Rana]

And yet Shan plays all around the world, is highly regarded and started a bidding war with English counties.

Shareel... will continue to display his hunger in KPL/ Nat t20 and PSL for the next couple of years until his knees give way. But don't worry, you can continue to cheerlead his powerful sixes every time pakistan lose a game.

Lol at the level of delusional grandeur )

Not surprised tbh.

 

[Kroll]

So Shan was a classic example of new age Pakistan cricket fans and their management getting what they wanted.

Guys like me are usually shut down within a matter of minutes by these fans when I suggest that we need a gun opener like Sharjeel in the side. They would always tell me that the super fit and hardworking Shan is more deserving.

I mean, where are we heading with this approach?

Being shut down is fast becoming a favourite past time for some. It's like you're no longer allowed an opinion or to comment if it doesn't match up to others agendas.

 

[Zaz]

If you ask most people on this forum they’ll put a players attitude/behaviour and fitness over skill and talent.

Think about how many greats we would’ve lost if we followed this method of selection.

Even them greats met acceptable and average levels of fitness as per their era

Of course time has moved on and so have fitness levels You cant be borderline obese in this era Its not acceptable

We arent keeping any world class talents out anyway so your point doesnt stand

 

[Gayle_Force]

Even them greats met acceptable and average levels of fitness as per their era

Of course time has moved on and so have fitness levels You cant be borderline obese in this era Its not acceptable

We arent keeping any world class talents out anyway so your point doesnt stand

Sharjeel is well beyond borderline obese. The other thing is that he has not exactly set the National T20 on fire. He had like three meaningful innings and complete flop in rest of the tournament. By all accounts his opening partner Saim had a much better and consistent performance and warrants selection consideration way ahead of Sharjeel.

 

[MenInG]

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Should not compromise on fitness - unless the player is extraordinary - like Rohit Sharma who apparently does not do Yo Yo tests

Sharjeel is not that level - and far worse fitness than even Rohit

Problem with Sharjeel is not that he is not fit. He is ridiculously overweight. Honestly he will be butt of jokes if he plays in T20 WC. Plus will be huge liability on the field

Remember Nasir Jamshed during 2015 WC. He dropped a catch against West Indies and commentator joked that Nasir looks like some overweight uncle has inadvertently entered the ground

As a team Pakistan should strive for better standards

This is the problem!

Every Tom Dick and Harry type Pak player who gets a little fame with one or two meaningless performances starts thinking of himself as Rohit Sharma.

They shift focus from fitness and striving for improvement, to making sure their collars are raised during the field, and to make sure to get into a show off Sajda mode with a small milestone.


A sportsman whose bread n butter is sports, tell me how in the world can he not keep himself fit and keep his weight under control?

If you can't lose weight in this day n age, you need to see a good psychiatrist rather than a trainer. This is my philosophy.

A couple of years ago, I used to recommend this regime for such players.

"Lock them in a prison cell.
Provide them not more than 1000 calories a day and make them face medium to heavy weight resistance in the gym for an hour each session three times a day. And then make sure to make them run 20 miles a day with lots of zero cal liquids. All for six months."

And see how do they lose weight.

But now I am hopeless because soon as these guys come out of the prison, they will attack on biryani and paratha like hungry wolves, and gain back all the weight in about a month.
The problem is in the brain.

 

[shamaan]

I think both are important but if your lacking in an aspect such as power hitting and you have a player with less fitness you can give it some leeway.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Even them greats met acceptable and average levels of fitness as per their era

Of course time has moved on and so have fitness levels You cant be borderline obese in this era Its not acceptable

We arent keeping any world class talents out anyway so your point doesnt stand

lol, in this era we saw Azam Khan debut against England.

Let’s be honest, the PCB will set out their fitness guidelines for certain players but will ignore it for others. They’re never consistent.

Back in May, Sharjeel, Umar, Haris and Maqsood were called up for a fitness test to run 2k. Why wasn’t Azam Khan there?

Even if you look at Sharma and Pant, they’re just as big as the names I mentioned above, could you see them running 2k? They’re fitness levels allow them to get picked for a team like India but Sohaib Maqsood isn’t fit enough for PCB.

 

[cricenjoyer]

If a player has outstanding talent than their can be small margins regarding their fitness.

Issue is no player in our domestic circus has that kind of talent plus the guys who are referred to as "skilled" by some fans, Sharjeel the main one, are way past that margin were you can compensate talent for skill therefore it would be silly to select them

 

[Rana]

Great fitness and athleticism out there today

 

[Bilal7]

Generally in sports world, you cant fully make use of your "skill set" if you are not "Fit enough".

Isn't that common sense?

Both go hand in hand and we should be looking for good balance of both qualities in the player.

Skill is far more important than fitness. Usain Bolt would be a garbage cricketer and someone like Umar Akmal would be far better despite their obvious disparity in fitness.

Another example is Pakistan's middle-order in the 2000s. Inzamam and Yousuf were hardly super fit atheletes but they were still two of the best batsmen in the world because they had the skill to do their job.

Ideally, you find a bunch of highly skilled players and make them work hard to improve their fitness.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Skill is far more important than fitness. Usain Bolt would be a garbage cricketer and someone like Umar Akmal would be far better despite their obvious disparity in fitness.

Another example is Pakistan's middle-order in the 2000s. Inzamam and Yousuf were hardly super fit atheletes but they were still two of the best batsmen in the world because they had the skill to do their job.

Ideally, you find a bunch of highly skilled players and make them work hard to improve their fitness.

read my post #38 again
If a player is at the caliber of Inzi and Yousuf with their fitness level as well, then I will take them in the team any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

But when galli mohalla type lapaaru players like Sharjeel and Azam Khan whose fitness level and physical appearance depicts a laughable scene for a sportsman, start comparing themselves, and their skill and fitness level with Inzi and Yousuf then we need to stop following cricket.

 

[MenInG]

Babar and Riz's fitness is exemplary and you can see what that does to your ability to get tight singles even until the last few overs

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Babar and Riz's fitness is exemplary and you can see what that does to your ability to get tight singles even until the last few overs

This is exactly right.
Providing the example of Usain Bolt with Umer Akmal is laughable.

Bolt runs solo, he has to have extreme fitness.

Cricket is a TEAM sports. Your solo skill of batting good is NOT enough. You are running between the wickets to take off the pressure, so you must have stamina and controlled body weight to support the other runner on the crease. You must have a good throwing arm in the field. You must be agile to dive and stop runs and/or take crucial catches, you must be able to run very fast to chase the ball to stop it from crossing the rope etc.

Now cricket may not require an extreme level of fitness like Bolt - but a very good fitness is mandatory to play an effective role as a team player.

Look at the fitness agility AND SKILL level of those domestic unknown players in Big Bash ,,, they present a shame on many of our international level players.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

What is match fitness in that case? Not being able to match the requirement of the standard you are playing at but a great bleep test score?

Read above to get an idea of what is match fitness in a team sports.

 

[shamaan]

Rizwan is one of the fittest players in world cricket.

 

[umerz]

I feel hardwork is most important. Those who are not investing in themselves shouldnt be part of the team

 

[Rana]

Shan Masood is one of the worst selections in the history of T20i cricket