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France - Bans women wearing headscarfs, but allows them to protest topless in public

Yossarian

Yossarian

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‘Victory of all feminists’: FEMEN wins right to topless protest in France

FEMEN activists were acquitted of sexual exhibitionism charges in Lille Wednesday for their topless protest during the trial of former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn last year.

The three activists, who wrote “pimps, clients, guilty” and “your turn to be *****” on their bare chests, shouted at Strauss-Kahn’s car before being arrested by police in February 2015.

“A political demonstration should not be confused with sexual aggression,” FEMEN’s lawyer Valentine Reberioux said. “These are political acts using the nude torso as a mode of expression and it ends there"
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France - where women can go topless, but not cover their heads, in public.

(I'm not posting the link, as it contains nudity. But google for the above article if you wish)
 
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Everyone should have the right to practice their religion, beliefs, culture etc... in a democratic system. I am not sure why these countries keep on banning the hijab but it's completely against their own constitution. It's sickening to see these type of bans.
 
IslamabadUnited said:
Everyone should have the right to practice their religion, beliefs, culture etc... in a democratic system. I am not sure why these countries keep on banning the hijab but it's completely against their own constitution. It's sickening to see these type of bans.
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What is their basis for banning Hijab ? They don't have any right to decide it for us. Is there something we can do to oppose French Govt. ?
 
Texaco said:
What is their basis for banning Hijab ? They don't have any right to decide it for us. Is there something we can do to oppose French Govt. ?
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They can decide what they want,it's left to you to live there are not.Are they allowing other religious practices?
 
I wasn't aware that headscarves are banned in France, I thought it was only burkas? I know an English lady who gets her hair done every week and wears a headscarf if it's windy because she wants it to stay set on the way to work.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I wasn't aware that headscarves are banned in France, I thought it was only burkas? I know an English lady who gets her hair done every week and wears a headscarf if it's windy because she wants it to stay set on the way to work.
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It's not banned in public, only in schools and other public institutions. Been like that since 2004.
 
dayvancowboy said:
How can you complain about France's laws against the hijab but turn a blind eye or even enthusiastically support forced hijab in certain Muslim countries?
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Islam asks women to dress decently. Muslim women are very decent. They prefer wearing hijaab. No one forces them.
 
Texaco said:
Islam asks women to dress decently. Muslim women are very decent. They prefer wearing hijaab. No one forces them.
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Well, you are being very hypocritical in demanding special privileges in the West but denying it on your own turf.

Is this the forced niqab you support from your pious brothers in Syria?

CfYaZ_pXIAE7IiH.jpg:large


Taken at a girls school in Idlib, says 'Girls, wear niqab or we'll cut ur necks'.

But hey, the anti-niqab laws in Europe are SOOOO oppressive, but stuff like this is just merely enforcing Shariat, right?
 
dayvancowboy said:
Well, you are being very hypocritical in demanding special privileges in the West but denying it on your own turf.

Is this the forced niqab you support from your pious brothers in Syria?

CfYaZ_pXIAE7IiH.jpg:large


Taken at a girls school in Idlib, says 'Girls, wear niqab or we'll cut ur necks'.

But hey, the anti-niqab laws in Europe are SOOOO oppressive, but stuff like this is just merely enforcing Shariat, right?
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He is harping about theoretical Islam which is not practiced any where in world.
 
Bakasura said:
He is harping about theoretical Islam which is not practiced any where in world.
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A lot of the whiners about niqab bans on this forum prefer this to take over all of Pakistan:

chicks%2Bwith%2Bsticks.gif


They're okay with forced veiling policies because they are supremacists that believe they are conveying the truth to the masses. They are the flip coin of European colonialists.
 
dayvancowboy said:
How can you complain about France's laws against the hijab but turn a blind eye or even enthusiastically support forced hijab in certain Muslim countries?
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The OP doesn't mention religion. The fact that some posters are focusing on religion, and not the rights of women, or how women are treated by the male dominated society (The argument: it's a woman's "right" to wear what she wants, even if it means "showing her t**s in public", but she does not have the right to wear what she wants if it means covering her face/head) is actually derailing the thread.
 
dayvancowboy said:
Well, you are being very hypocritical in demanding special privileges in the West but denying it on your own turf.

Is this the forced niqab you support from your pious brothers in Syria?

CfYaZ_pXIAE7IiH.jpg:large


Taken at a girls school in Idlib, says 'Girls, wear niqab or we'll cut ur necks'.

But hey, the anti-niqab laws in Europe are SOOOO oppressive, but stuff like this is just merely enforcing Shariat, right?
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Bakasura said:
He is harping about theoretical Islam which is not practiced any where in world.
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If it were so, why do Muslim women oppose the ban on hijab ? They themselves like to dress decently. It may not suit your western ideals but muslim world still has some morality left unlike west which promotes indecency in their women.
 
dayvancowboy said:
A lot of the whiners about niqab bans on this forum prefer this to take over all of Pakistan:

chicks%2Bwith%2Bsticks.gif


They're okay with forced veiling policies because they are supremacists that believe they are conveying the truth to the masses. They are the flip coin of European colonialists.
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This picture even further validates my point. The muslim women like to dress decently and cover their body parts unlike other western women. It may not suit you brother, but please get used to it.
 
Texaco said:
If it were so, why do Muslim women oppose the ban on hijab ? They themselves like to dress decently. It may not suit your western ideals but muslim world still has some morality left unlike west which promotes indecency in their women.
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I don't think non-hijabi Muslim women want you, a stereotypical pious misogynist, to speak on behalf of morality when your kind believe it is okay to beat women for not being covered up head to toe. Your kind spend more time posting abuse on social media profiles of Pakistani women, like here: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=966827943372692&id=490858150969676
 
Texaco said:
This picture even further validates my point. The muslim women like to dress decently and cover their body parts unlike other western women. It may not suit you brother, but please get used to it.
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Being covered up from head to toe is not "dressing decently". It represents the other extreme.

You should get used to the fact that not all Muslim women want to wear the niqab.
 
dayvancowboy said:
I don't think non-hijabi Muslim women want you, a stereotypical pious misogynist, to speak on behalf of morality when your kind believe it is okay to beat women for not being covered up head to toe. Your kind spend more time posting abuse on social media profiles of Pakistani women, like here: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=966827943372692&id=490858150969676
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Dear brother,

As muslims, we are never abusive to women. Islam gives the best rights to the muslim women. Please don't spread wrong information. Why don't you go ahead and ask Muslim women if they indeed like to live by Islamic principles ? I am sure you will get a shocking answer in affirmative.
 
dayvancowboy said:
Being covered up from head to toe is not "dressing decently". It represents the other extreme.

You should get used to the fact that not all Muslim women want to wear the niqab.
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Dear brother,

Who gave you the right to say what does dressing decently mean ? If the women themselves want it, as it is for their own protection from male gaze.
 
Texaco said:
Dear brother,

As muslims, we are never abusive to women. Islam gives the best rights to the muslim women. Please don't spread wrong information. Why don't you go ahead and ask Muslim women if they indeed like to live by Islamic principles ? I am sure you will get a shocking answer in affirmative.
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I'm not speaking about what Islam preaches, I'm speaking about how misogynist "pious" fake wannabe mullahs like yourself preach. As for the bold, why don't you ask them yourselves? Muslim women aren't monolithic buddy. Get over it.
 
Texaco said:
Dear brother,

As muslims, we are never abusive to women. Islam gives the best rights to the muslim women. Please don't spread wrong information. Why don't you go ahead and ask Muslim women if they indeed like to live by Islamic principles ? I am sure you will get a shocking answer in affirmative.
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Ever heard about Triple Talaq??
 
Texaco said:
Dear brother,

Who gave you the right to say what does dressing decently mean ? If the women themselves want it, as it is for their own protection from male gaze.
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Yet you don't respect Muslim women who choose NOT to wear niqab or hijab...and even the ones that do wear hijab are met with abuse by those who deem them "not Muslim enough" as my link to the FB comments of a Channel 4 reporter can attest to.
 
dayvancowboy said:
Yet you don't respect Muslim women who choose NOT to wear niqab or hijab...and even the ones that do wear hijab are met with abuse by those who deem them "not Muslim enough" as my link to the FB comments of a Channel 4 reporter can attest to.
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I read the link brother.

While being respectful to the sister in the link you mentioned, she was really not dressed Islamic way. She was not wearing the proper hijab which covered her bossom.

As a muslim though, we are not supposed to comment on her, and actually should lower our gaze. I would request you to not post such indecent women's picture as I don't think she is dressed properly. She has lost the moral respect I believe.

May allah guide her to the right path, as she is strayed. In the end, Allah knows best.
 
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IslamabadUnited said:
We can maybe start a petition? What do you guys think?
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Why don't you start a petition to condemn forced veiling in ISIS-held territories while you're at it?

Or is it because you and Texaco both deep down agree with forcing all women to wear niqab by threatening them to death?
 
dayvancowboy said:
Why don't you start a petition to condemn forced veiling in ISIS-held territories while you're at it?

Or is it because you and Texaco both deep down agree with forcing all women to wear niqab by threatening them to death?
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I have already replied to you in post #36.
 
IslamabadUnited said:
We can maybe start a petition? What do you guys think?
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Aimed at who? The French presumably banned headscarves because they don't want women to look like Muslims. So why would a petition from Muslims make them change their minds?

Best just to leave the country and find a place which is more accommodating.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Best just to leave the country and find a place which is more accommodating.
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Except they want to have their cake and eat it...and as a result of their arrogance, they only further increase more division and Islamophobia.

They expect minorities in Muslim countries to compromise in order to live in peace but they can't do the same when they are the minority. Do these morons really believe France or Belgium will be Muslim-majority and under Daesh-style Shariat? Better to move elsewhere instead of being a victimizing brat in a host country you chose to migrate to.
 
dayvancowboy said:
Except they want to have their cake and eat it...and as a result of their arrogance, they only further increase more division and Islamophobia.

They expect minorities in Muslim countries to compromise in order to live in peace but they can't do the same when they are the minority. Do these morons really believe France or Belgium will be Muslim-majority and under Daesh-style Shariat? Better to move elsewhere instead of being a victimizing brat in a host country you chose to migrate to.
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Islam is not confined to any specific country. It's for the whole humanity.
 
Bakasura said:
Reality which is affecting lot of Indian Muslim Women and issue is in Supreme Court right now.
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Islam permits both men and women to part ways from troubled marriages. I am not sure many other religions allow this freedom.
 
Texaco said:
Islam permits both men and women to part ways from troubled marriages. I am not sure many other religions allow this freedom.
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Please preach your theories somewhere else...this is the real problem and people are affected badly.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Aimed at who? The French presumably banned headscarves because they don't want women to look like Muslims. So why would a petition from Muslims make them change their minds?

Best just to leave the country and find a place which is more accommodating.
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That's not how it works,when a citizen irrespective of any faith takes part in the democratic institution of the country he feels a part of it,its his/her country as well he has the "right" to practice religion.

The problem is "self victimization" which is a big issue among minorities ,you can't really always expect the majority to hold your hand and take you to paradise,its their(minorities-religious,ethnic) country as well.
 
Very wrong of France to ban hijab but can't blame them thanks to the damage from the so called muslims.
 
Why are two different topics being combined here,this is hypocritical of France irrespective of what happens in Saudi,Pakistan,India,Iran Where the hell ever.
 
world cup captain said:
Very wrong of France to ban hijab but can't blame them thanks to the damage from the so called muslims.
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France destroyed Libya ,that's like saying Paris attacks are not big deal because France has involvement in killing Muslims around the world.
 
I dont see anything wrong in giving women rights to go topless. But there should be no ban as well on wearing headscarfs. It should be depending on women what they want to wear or how they want to live. There should be nothing forced.

Also i think they dont want their country to be be an Islamic state. Maybe they are doing it against Islam specifically. Not sure why.... There should be some reason behind it.
 
'Their country their rules' is often the retort you hear when talking about human rights abuse and similar incidents in Saudi Arabia so I guess it should apply here too
 
Code: 
The law does not mention any particular symbol, and thus bans all Christian (veil, signs), Muslim (veil, signs), Sikh (turban, signs) Jewish and other religions' signs.[1] It is however considered by many to specifically target the wearing of headscarves (a khimar, considered by most Muslims to be an obligatory article of faith as part of hijab ["modesty"]) by Muslim schoolgirls. For this reason, it is occasionally referred to as the French headscarf ban in the foreign press.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fre..._and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools
 
France is matching wahabi mullahs from the opposing end.

I dont think they should ban full face burqua for any reason other than security (considering that it is related to it).

I think France as liberal as it is should allow women to wear burqua willingly in their normal life.
At the same time Burqa wearing women should respect the few common french laws related to covering the face (not related to burqa). Like unmasking when asked to prove their identity to match with their identity card. I also understand some places have policies that people cannot hide their faces when they enter their premises , i hope people respect that too.
On personal level i dont want anyone to hide their face when driving, it not only hinders their view but also creates identification problem post some unfortunate incident.

Basically both the parties should understand each others side and respect it. Initiative has to come from the govt as its supposed to be mother of its citizens.

And regarding head scarfs and head gears, i dont find any reasons why any govt would ban them.

I am also not in favor of public nudity , public cursing, and public indecency but i am sure french govt doestn care about my views. But then again, their country their rules
 
JaDed said:
France destroyed Libya ,that's like saying Paris attacks are not big deal because France has involvement in killing Muslims around the world.
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Actually, Muslims destroyed Libya. All France did was provide one group of Muslims with air support.
 
Lords said:
I dont think they should ban full face burqua for any reason other than security (considering that it is related to it).

And regarding head scarfs and head gears, i dont find any reasons why any govt would ban them.
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I agree with this. My grandmother wore a headscarf.

To me the issue is one of identification and openness in a free society. Showing your face promotes trust, while covering your face (including hoodies for men) promotes uncertainty and fear.
 
I thought it's worth posting the following again.
Yossarian said:
The OP doesn't mention religion. The fact that some posters are focusing on religion, and not the rights of women, or how women are treated by the male dominated society (The argument: it's a woman's "right" to wear what she wants, even if it means "showing her t**s in public", but she does not have the right to wear what she wants if it means covering her face/head) is actually derailing the thread.
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Why do some posters feel the need to always drag religion into every thread and thereby derail it?
 
Robert said:
Actually, Muslims destroyed Libya. All France did was provide one group of Muslims with air support.
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France has been meddling into Libyan affairs for decades, they have supported the opposite side when they don't like the current leadership.

Muslims made Libya the most advanced nation in North Africa until the western nations decided they wanted Gaddafi removed. France was the first to recognise the 'opposition' which was in fact groups of extremists who were doing the wests bidding in removing Gaddafi. France bombed Libya and destroyed plenty of the country to further their own political means. Muslims did not destroy Libya, a bunch of terrorists supported by the west destroyed a relatively prosperous Muslim country, killing many Muslims including blacks just because they were black.

It's a case of chickens coming home to roost when France is attacked by the same ideology of terrorists they backed.
 
On topic, France is not really a liberal, free society, giving rights to all but a liberal fascist society nation which applauds those who follow it's ideology and oppose anyone who is different.

The only good thing about the French is they tend not to come to Britain.
 
There is loophole in the system. Why not wear the dress code of Nun? Nun dress code especially head scarf is appropriate and completely Islamic style. After all, it is emulated from Maryam, Mother of Jesus (PBUH). They will never dare to disrespect the dress code of Nun.
 
JaDed said:
France destroyed Libya ,that's like saying Paris attacks are not big deal because France has involvement in killing Muslims around the world.
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I'm not saying France destroying Libya or any violence is justified. I just can't blame France of doing what they did the against hhe beliefs of Islam.
 
Yossarian said:
I thought it's worth posting the following again.


Why do some posters feel the need to always drag religion into every thread and thereby derail it?
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You are nitpicking...they banned all religious displays in schools not only head scarves.So obviously religion comes into picture when you put why head scarves are banned in in title.
 
It is quite shameful for France to have banned headscarves. It is one thing for a religion to dictate what its followers should or shouldn't wear (this is the business of religion and it's no surprise more and more people are walking from it), and another thing for a flourishing, progressive democracy to do so.
 
Yossarian said:
The OP doesn't mention religion. The fact that some posters are focusing on religion, and not the rights of women, or how women are treated by the male dominated society (The argument: it's a woman's "right" to wear what she wants, even if it means "showing her t**s in public", but she does not have the right to wear what she wants if it means covering her face/head) is actually derailing the thread.
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But it is their country, they have their own rules, morals and laws. Just like Saudi Arabia has its own laws.
 
Texaco said:
If it were so, why do Muslim women oppose the ban on hijab ? They themselves like to dress decently. It may not suit your western ideals but muslim world still has some morality left unlike west which promotes indecency in their women.
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What is "decent" and what is "indecent" is subjective.
 
Third_Umpire said:
It is quite shameful for France to have banned headscarves. It is one thing for a religion to dictate what its followers should or shouldn't wear (this is the business of religion and it's no surprise more and more people are walking from it), and another thing for a flourishing, progressive democracy to do so.
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Please read OP properly.
 
Thivagar said:
What is "decent" and what is "indecent" is subjective.
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As I said, western world may have left it's morals long back, it doesn't mean Muslims also need to follow that style. Islam clearly mentions women to dress properly, hiding their body from the non-maharam male gaze.

Before anyone pounces on me, it also orders men to lower their gaze if inadvertently any woman's body is exposed.
 
Third_Umpire said:
Already read, and don't see a problem with what I said.
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France hasn't banned "head scarves". However, it has no role in interfering what Muslim women wear. To rub salt into injury, it is allowing the other women to promote indecency by allowing them this kind of immorality.

I suspect it is done to annoy Muslims further.
 
JaDed said:
Why are two different topics being combined here,this is hypocritical of France irrespective of what happens in Saudi,Pakistan,India,Iran Where the hell ever.
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France doesn't like Muslims or Islam being practiced in their country. It is very obvious with their biased laws towards Muslims. France is also aware that no one else is going to speak in behalf of the Muslims. It also knows that people will always use Saudi as an example.
 
Texaco said:
France hasn't banned "head scarves". However, it has no role in interfering what Muslim women wear. To rub salt into injury, it is allowing the other women to promote indecency by allowing them this kind of immorality.

I suspect it is done to annoy Muslims further.
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I should have been more precise, they have banned niqab and I feel they should not do so.

Women, or men for that matter, should be able to dress (or lack of) as they please regardless of which religious group feels offended or hurt. Don't like something? Avoid it. But don't expect the world to accommodate your every whim.
 
Thivagar said:
France doesn't like Muslims or Islam being practiced in their country. It is very obvious with their biased laws towards Muslims. France is also aware that no one else is going to speak in behalf of the Muslims. It also knows that people will always use Saudi as an example.
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That's correct. People who say nothing is religion specific are living in denial. This whole drama is enacted to further annoy Muslims.

French Govt. is overstepping it's limits here, clearly.
 
Texaco said:
France hasn't banned "head scarves". However, it has no role in interfering what Muslim women wear. To rub salt into injury, it is allowing the other women to promote indecency by allowing them this kind of immorality.

I suspect it is done to annoy Muslims further.
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If that's the case, then why not annoy them exercising Nun dress code alike and revive the modesty of the dress code? That's gonna annoy the hell outta nudists. :)

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
 
Third_Umpire said:
I should have been more precise, they have banned niqab and I feel they should not do so.

Women, or men for that matter, should be able to dress (or lack of) as they please regardless of which religious group feels offended or hurt. Don't like something? Avoid it. But don't expect the world to accommodate your every whim.
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Allowing indecency and lack of morals isn't acceptable in Islam. I am not sure why are you cribbing about it ? Something wrong is wrong. Don't let your hate for Islam rule your judgment.
 
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