Harry Potter or A Song of Ice and Fire

[TM Riddle]

Which one's the better Fantasy series among the two?

Been conflicted on this question after rereading the whole ASOIAF tenth time and realizing that I have become obsessively attached to these novels something similar to my childhood's fixation with the HP novels.

IMHO Martin's world is more complex and convoluted than the Wizarding world of Rowling which is much simpler and thus easy to get into. Also it has to be keep in the mind that HP novels although cherished by people of all age group were written with young adult readers in mind and thus do not feature the winding and twisted plot points, political intrigues and realism which has come to characterise Martin's series hence its appeal to more aged readers.

Also the fact that He has rejected the traditional theme of good vs evil embracing more grey characters is something you don't see too often in other works. Most of his character persona are conflicted individuals lying somewhere in the middle of good and bad spectrum thus emulating the real world in that regard .
It's this very reason why readers have come to accept Jamie as their Hero inspite of some of his choices and decisions made early on(incest, flinging children out of the windows etc).
Harry Potter otoh is a straightaway good vs evil battle with the cliched power of love as it's major theme.

But when it comes to entertainment and getting reader immediately hooked up, Rowling takes the cake. Her work rarely bored me and infact I would be awake in nights to finish the latest books(@Mamoon I'm sure you can relate). This is where Martin lags behind. Although superbly entertaining, his plot tends to move so slowly sometimes that on my first reading I had to skip a few chapters. This is specially true with regards to happenings on Essos which are painfully annoying and tiresome to say the least.

A case in example is A Feast for Crows. Now I feel the book has been unfairly criticized a lot but some of it was warranted and justified. The writer wasted a lot of time on stuff that could have been avoided and the story kind of got stuck on one place thus becoming tedious and monotonous in a sharp contrast to HP novels where there rarely is a dull moment and you keep looking forward to happenings in the coming pages.
But in Martin's defense I would say that A Storm of Swords is probably the greatest fantasy novel of all time(Heck the guy even managed to make Essos interesting which is no mean feat btw).

Anyway that was my take on the issue. What does everybody else think?

 

[TM Riddle]

[MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=57355]pakistanigoneaussie[/MENTION]

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

this is hard for me to judge when I consider what the target audience for each book is. The other issue being ASOIAF is still two books from being completed

In terms of impact, id says Harry Potter.

Much like Lord of the Rings was the driving force for new fantasy books and later films, HP does the same for young fantasy fiction. Both arent as original as people would expect, but both have a lasting influence on the genre.

I personally reckon Martin has created so many threads, that he doesn't know how to end it. This has probably been further compounded by the show. While his viewpoint characters ( and others like book Stannis) are superior to anything in Harry Potter and in LOTR ( Gandalf aside), the overall story is just too convoluted at this stage. Again it's hard to judge when the books aren't finished.

I didn't hate Feast of Crows, I actually enjoyed the Dorne storyline, but it was a big drop in quality from A Storm of Swords. I particularly wasn't a fan of the Greyjoy storyline, didn't care much for Stoneheart either. Martin sort of rescued the situation in Dance of Dragons.


The one last thing id say about Harry Potter is that its real genius is how the book age with the reader. That is if a 10-year-old reads a Philosophers stone, the social commentary and child issues in each book get more serious with the age of the reader. I don't think any young fiction has come close to it.

 

[kingusama92]

Harry Potter.

Incredibly entertaining, funny, and well written. Rowling is brilliant and her "Cormoran Strike Series" is worth a read too.

I find Martin's work overwhelming (And I think he does too!). Way too many things going on at once. However, the TV series is fantastic.

 

[LastManstanding]

The HP books were hugely successful long before the films, whereas the Song of Ice and Fire books were relatively unknown. As unpopular as it is to admit these days with the problems with the show, it was the show that made Game of Thrones what it is. The HP movies were nowhere near on the same level as the books.

 

[TM Riddle]

this is hard for me to judge when I consider what the target audience for each book is. The other issue being ASOIAF is still two books from being completed

In terms of impact, id says Harry Potter.

Much like Lord of the Rings was the driving force for new fantasy books and later films, HP does the same for young fantasy fiction. Both arent as original as people would expect, but both have a lasting influence on the genre.

I personally reckon Martin has created so many threads, that he doesn't know how to end it. This has probably been further compounded by the show. While his viewpoint characters ( and others like book Stannis) are superior to anything in Harry Potter and in LOTR ( Gandalf aside), the overall story is just too convoluted at this stage. Again it's hard to judge when the books aren't finished.

I didn't hate Feast of Crows, I actually enjoyed the Dorne storyline, but it was a big drop in quality from A Storm of Swords. I particularly wasn't a fan of the Greyjoy storyline, didn't care much for Stoneheart either. Martin sort of rescued the situation in Dance of Dragons.


The one last thing id say about Harry Potter is that its real genius is how the book age with the reader. That is if a 10-year-old reads a Philosophers stone, the social commentary and child issues in each book get more serious with the age of the reader. I don't think any young fiction has come close to it.

I feel he has made Dany spent way too much time in the slavers bay thus bringing further complications in an already tangled storyline.

If only He kept the main plot centred around Westeros we would have seen story ending in a much more fruitful manner. Mind you I don't hate Essos that much and I think it's simply mind-blowing the amount of energy he has devoted in creating and describing the world(almost Tolkeinesque) and which should rightly be appreciated but it would have been nicer had he decided to not devote 5 effin books to the Eastern continent so much so that as a reader we feel overwhelmed now.

Let me illustrate this by giving an example. I'm sure you must have read the Dunk and Egg series which takes place around 80-90 years before the main events in a GOT. I absolutely love those three novellas. They are simple and yet superbly effective at grabbing the reader's attention. Plot is pretty straightforward and yet one can't help but love and appreciate the minor details described in those pages.
In fact they are so engaging that I found them even better than the main series which is saying a LOT considering the average page count in each novella is hardly even hundred. This is where Martin missed the trick IMO. He was going well till a SOS but let things get out of hands afterwards.

 

[TM Riddle]

[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139682]LastManstanding[/MENTION] Don't you guys feel the show has lost it's charm after the fourth season so much so that It's on the verge of idiocy now?

 

[LastManstanding]

[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139682]LastManstanding[/MENTION] Don't you guys feel the show has lost it's charm after the fourth season so much so that It's on the verge of idiocy now?

I believe the show has become fan fiction. It cares more about what fans want than telling a good story. Suffice to say D&D have no idea what to do without Martin's writing. The show lost its charm for me when they relegated tyrion, varys and littlefinger to side characters. Dont have much hopes for the final season.

 

[Xoib]

[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139682]LastManstanding[/MENTION] Don't you guys feel the show has lost it's charm after the fourth season so much so that It's on the verge of idiocy now?

Not really. Infact the show will give a better closure to the show then what we can expect from the books (if they are ever released) since the story in the books is out of hand now.

The first 4 seasons were a masterpiece because they were carfully following a masterpiece which were the first 3 books sice then there hands have been tied due to lack of orignal material and the mterial they have is off a lower quality then the first 3 books.

I support them for a lot of decisions such as cutting Aegon. A hidden prince would have diminished the impact of Jon Snow- Aegon reveal. Arienne was cut since she could have stolen thunder from the already 3 established female leads-Danny,Cerci,Sansa.

Some stuff they could have handled better for eg the Dorne storyline instead of sandsnakes they could have used Doran Matell in that story to make it more logical. Littlefinger selling of Sansa to Boltons could have had a better reason then what they came up with but then as I said thy have their hands tied due to lack of material and they had to find some use for Sansa they cant pay Sophie Turner millions just to eat lemon cakes in Vale like the books.

Despite the drop in quality the show is still better then most on TV maybe it will not age aswell as it should have givin the start but it is still a GOAT for me.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

The show massively fluffed the Dorne storyline ( and by extenstion Jaime's). I think they themselves admit it in the way they have killed them all. Its a real shame because Doran had a lot of potential. That and they basically dumbed down Stannis into a villian rather than the more complex character he is in the books.

Apart from that I sort of get why the Show has made the decisions they have, such as killing rickon, no stoneheart, no victarion, etc.

 

[Varun]

Harry Potter by a mile.

An entire generation who hasn't read a book before or after were captivated for 15 years worth, even to the extent of waiting at midnight outside of bookstores for the latest release.

My favourite book: Goblet of Fire
My favourite fim: Half Blood Prince

 

[TM Riddle]

Harry Potter by a mile.

An entire generation who hasn't read a book before or after were captivated for 15 years worth, even to the extent of waiting at midnight outside of bookstores for the latest release.

My favourite book: Goblet of Fire
My favourite fim: Half Blood Prince

Goblet of fire is my favorite book as well even though many people tend to downplay it.
Half blood prince movie sucked. Probably the worst in the series.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

[MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=57355]pakistanigoneaussie[/MENTION]

Good thread.

I loved Harry Potter when I was younger.It was my favourite series.I have reread each book at least ten times and I know the exact plot of each book by heart.I first finshed the series when I was like 9.But I still have all 7 books and 'Cursed Child' at a place of honor on my bookshelf.

But ASOIAF is a different beast.It is meant for much older,mature readers.I personally started reading the books only recently (after season 7 of GOT).I finished them and all their companion books and am still waiting for any news of the 6th book.They are quite lengthy and have multiple storylines running at the same time.But they are masterpieces IMO.Best series I've ever read.Fascinating multlayered characters,each with their own plot points.

The Harry Potter series had many errors.Voldemort was a cliche villian.Harry was the typical 'Chosen One'.Only Snape and Dumbledore were good characters.

One fault with ASOIAF is that it has literally too many storylines which makes the story really difficult to tie up.

I prefer ASOIAF but I understand why anyone would prefer Harry Potter.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139682]LastManstanding[/MENTION] Don't you guys feel the show has lost it's charm after the fourth season so much so that It's on the verge of idiocy now?

If you compare the show with the books it falls flat.If you consider it as only television,it is among the best shows ever.

I hate the showmakers now

 

[TM Riddle]

good thread.

I loved harry potter when i was younger.it was my favourite series.i have reread each book at least ten times and i know the exact plot of each book by heart.i first finshed the series when i was like 9.but i still have all 7 books and 'cursed child' at a place of honor on my bookshelf.

But asoiaf is a different beast.it is meant for much older,mature readers.i personally started reading the books only recently (after season 7 of got).i finished them and all their companion books and am still waiting for any news of the 6th book.they are quite lengthy and have multiple storylines running at the same time.but they are masterpieces imo.best series i've ever read.fascinating multlayered characters,each with their own plot points.

The harry potter series had many errors.voldemort was a cliche villian.harry was the typical 'chosen one'.only snape and dumbledore were good characters.

One fault with asoiaf is that it has literally too many storylines which makes the story really difficult to tie up.

I prefer asoiaf but i understand why anyone would prefer harry potter.

we don't talk about it!!!!
It was a disgrace.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I believe the show has become fan fiction. It cares more about what fans want than telling a good story. Suffice to say D&D have no idea what to do without Martin's writing. The show lost its charm for me when they relegated tyrion, varys and littlefinger to side characters. Dont have much hopes for the final season.

Agreed.The show is not even close to the books right now.

They ruined Stannis completely.Euron's character was much less evil.Doran was just a minor character..They completely ruined the Dorne Storyline.No Arianne Martell.No Aegon Targaryen/JonCon.No Victarion Greyjoy.No Stoneheart.

As you said Varys(and Littlefinger) were relegated to side characters while they are much much more important in events in the books.Sansa's storyline is changed in the show.Jaime and Brienne's storyline is also changed.Cersei will probably have a different ending.

They propped up Daenerys as some sort of cool warrior leader and Tyrion as a joking,witty dwarf after season 4.Tyrion went down a really dark path in ADWD.Arya is seen as some cool ninja whereas she's a kid with PTSD and is probably insane.Jon Snow is a much deeper character than in the show.Roose is also much more cunning and dangerous in the books.

 

[Bosanquet]

Which one's the better Fantasy series among the two?

Been conflicted on this question after rereading the whole ASOIAF tenth time and realizing that I have become obsessively attached to these novels something similar to my childhood's fixation with the HP novels.

IMHO Martin's world is more complex and convoluted than the Wizarding world of Rowling which is much simpler and thus easy to get into. Also it has to be keep in the mind that HP novels although cherished by people of all age group were written with young adult readers in mind and thus do not feature the winding and twisted plot points, political intrigues and realism which has come to characterise Martin's series hence its appeal to more aged readers.

Also the fact that He has rejected the traditional theme of good vs evil embracing more grey characters is something you don't see too often in other works. Most of his character persona are conflicted individuals lying somewhere in the middle of good and bad spectrum thus emulating the real world in that regard .
It's this very reason why readers have come to accept Jamie as their Hero inspite of some of his choices and decisions made early on(incest, flinging children out of the windows etc).
Harry Potter otoh is a straightaway good vs evil battle with the cliched power of love as it's major theme.

But when it comes to entertainment and getting reader immediately hooked up, Rowling takes the cake. Her work rarely bored me and infact I would be awake in nights to finish the latest books(@Mamoon I'm sure you can relate). This is where Martin lags behind. Although superbly entertaining, his plot tends to move so slowly sometimes that on my first reading I had to skip a few chapters. This is specially true with regards to happenings on Essos which are painfully annoying and tiresome to say the least.

A case in example is A Feast for Crows. Now I feel the book has been unfairly criticized a lot but some of it was warranted and justified. The writer wasted a lot of time on stuff that could have been avoided and the story kind of got stuck on one place thus becoming tedious and monotonous in a sharp contrast to HP novels where there rarely is a dull moment and you keep looking forward to happenings in the coming pages.
But in Martin's defense I would say that A Storm of Swords is probably the greatest fantasy novel of all time(Heck the guy even managed to make Essos interesting which is no mean feat btw).

Anyway that was my take on the issue. What does everybody else think?

I'm a lot older than you guys - and so, for me...

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

That was the greatest & remains so. But you really need to read the well known books plus Silmarillion & The Unfinished tales to get the true flavour of Tolkeins amazing worlds.
As for your question - I asked my son (nearly 19 and an avid fan of both). He says he has "grown out" of potterworld & now prefers GOT.

 

[TM Riddle]

I'm a lot older than you guys - and so, for me...

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

That was the greatest & remains so. But you really need to read the well known books plus Silmarillion & The Unfinished tales to get the true flavour of Tolkeins amazing worlds.
As for your question - I asked my son (nearly 19 and an avid fan of both). He says he has "grown out" of potterworld & now prefers GOT.

Of course LOTR is the grand daddy of them all. It will always remain the undisputed king of the fantasy genre.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I'm a lot older than you guys - and so, for me...

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

That was the greatest & remains so. But you really need to read the well known books plus Silmarillion & The Unfinished tales to get the true flavour of Tolkeins amazing worlds.
As for your question - I asked my son (nearly 19 and an avid fan of both). He says he has "grown out" of potterworld & now prefers GOT.

It is undoubtedly the greatest fantasy fiction series of all time.I've only read the 3 main books but I still find it the GOAT.

 

[TM Riddle]

[MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] How can you put cursed child in the same group?
It was diabolically bad.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

[MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] How can you put cursed child in the same group?
It was diabolically bad.

Lol Cursed Child was literally the cursed child of the series.Had to put it with the rest of the books otherwise it would have gotten lost somewhere since I'm never reading that waste of paper again.

 

[TM Riddle]

Lol Cursed Child was literally the cursed child of the series.Had to put it with the rest of the books otherwise it would have gotten lost somewhere since I'm never reading that waste of paper again.

I literally threw that abomination of a book in the trash after finishing it.
Was excruciatingly painful to see one of my favorite series getting butchered like that. What was Jo thinking?

 

[Varun]

Lol Cursed Child was literally the cursed child of the series.Had to put it with the rest of the books otherwise it would have gotten lost somewhere since I'm never reading that waste of paper again.

I literally threw that abomination of a book in the trash after finishing it.
Was excruciatingly painful to see one of my favorite series getting butchered like that. What was Jo thinking?

It wasn't written by JK Rowling to be fair.

A time travel book disguised as a Harry Potter book.

 

[TM Riddle]

It wasn't written by JK Rowling to be fair.

A time travel book disguised as a Harry Potter book.

I somehow digested that part. But Voldemort having a child, Whaaaaaaaaat????
Are you freaking kidding me? I felt like throwing up.

 

[Varun]

I somehow digested that part. But Voldemort having a child, Whaaaaaaaaat????
Are you freaking kidding me? I felt like throwing up.

How about the part where Albus is schmoozing around with his aunt (Hermione) telling her to make a choice between having another baby or going on vacation?

Voldemort having a child with Bellatrix makes sense in hindsight. At the beginning of Half Blood Prince during the Unbreakable Vow chapter, Bellatrix claims to Narcissa, "If I had sons, I would gladly give them up for service to the Dark Lord." She was subsequently absent during the climax scene atop the astronomy tower - which was when she was giving birth to the child.

So there you are.

 

[TM Riddle]

How about the part where Albus is schmoozing around with his aunt (Hermione) telling her to make a choice between having another baby or going on vacation?

Voldemort having a child with Bellatrix makes sense in hindsight. At the beginning of Half Blood Prince during the Unbreakable Vow chapter, Bellatrix claims to Narcissa, "If I had sons, I would gladly give them up for service to the Dark Lord." She was subsequently absent during the climax scene atop the astronomy tower - which was when she was giving birth to the child.

So there you are.

That was Bellatrix's choice though. Voldemort by all accounts was incapable of love and had no plans to impregnate a woman to carry his line(if that makes sense). They botched up everything and there's a reason why nobdoy takes them as cannon. Even Fantastic Beasts movies ain't that bad.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

How about the part where Albus is schmoozing around with his aunt (Hermione) telling her to make a choice between having another baby or going on vacation?

Voldemort having a child with Bellatrix makes sense in hindsight. At the beginning of Half Blood Prince during the Unbreakable Vow chapter, Bellatrix claims to Narcissa, "If I had sons, I would gladly give them up for service to the Dark Lord." She was subsequently absent during the climax scene atop the astronomy tower - which was when she was giving birth to the child.

So there you are.

Actually according to the timeline,Bellatrix would have been near the end of her pregnancy when she was torturing Hermione in Malfoy Manor.She would have gotten pregnant after Dumbledore's death.

Cursed Child literally makes no sense.There were a lot of characterization changes e.g Ron,Harry and Cedric.

 

[kingusama92]

[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139682]LastManstanding[/MENTION] Don't you guys feel the show has lost it's charm after the fourth season so much so that It's on the verge of idiocy now?

Season 4 set the bar incredibly high so a decline was predictable. In fact, most go through similar dips if you think about it.

The only two that overcame this were Breaking Bad and The Wire in my opinion.

 

[TM Riddle]

Season 4 set the bar incredibly high so a decline was predictable. In fact, most go through similar dips if you think about it.

The only two that overcame this were Breaking Bad and The Wire in my opinion.

Err a dip in quality I can understand esp since they were running out of the source material but what happened from season 5 was absolute travesty.
They botched up pretty much everything. So many plot holes that it would take me an entire day to go through all of them.
For a show that claims a place amongst the GOAT this was laughably ironical.
And I can name 5 HBO shows that maintained the consistency throughout the run.
I'm afraid the damage done has been too much for the final season to make any amends.