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Has there ever been a specialist fielder quite like Imran Butt?

marlonbrowndo

marlonbrowndo

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Hopefully his fielding doesn’t get him a prolonged spot in the team despite his tailender level batting. Thoughts?
 
Jhonty Rhodes. He very rarely performed with the bat.
 
As I said in the other thread. He's new in the team and still very young.

He played well yesterday and counterattacked. Deserves to be in the next series.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Imran Butt has only played a few Test matches but he's already shown that he is one of Pakistan's best ever slip-fielders <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WIvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WIvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/OjpgkAjsQn">pic.twitter.com/OjpgkAjsQn</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1430210600307765256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
So hard to drop

He is keeping our players like Saud Shaqeel with his sharp catching!
 
Specialist fielder is not the right word as even Imran was brought in mainly as a decent batsman who was a good slip catcher. So I will list down players where there fielding was a really important part of their selection.

Johnty Rhodes (Was mainly in the team as a package highly priced due to his fielding)

Robin Singh (A really good fielder who could bat and ball a bit)

Steve Smith (Younger days when he could ball bit of leg spin, bat a bit and outstanding in the field)

Mohammad Kaif (Outstanding fielder who was an okish bat)

Akash Chopra (Really good short leg fielder who was carried on for 10 tests due to this despite his batting failures considering Indian batting standards, took 15 catches in those matches)

There must be some others as well. While became really good batsmen but guys like Clarke, Yuvraj, Raina, ABD were really good fielders which played a role in their selection at a young age and more opportunities initially.
 
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Titan24 said:
Specialist fielder is not the right word as even Imran was brought in mainly as a decent batsman who was a good slip catcher. So I will list down players where there fielding was a really important part of their selection.

Johnty Rhodes (Was mainly in the team as a package highly priced due to his fielding)

Robin Singh (A really good fielder who could bat and ball a bit)

Steve Smith (Younger days when he could ball bit of leg spin, bat a bit and outstanding in the field)

Mohammad Kaif (Outstanding fielder who was an okish bat)

Akash Chopra (Really good short leg fielder who was carried on for 10 tests due to this despite his batting failures considering Indian batting standards, took 15 catches in those matches)

There must be some others as well. While became really good batsmen but guys like Clarke, Yuvraj, Raina, ABD were really good fielders which played a role in their selection at a young age and more opportunities initially.
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Imran Butt wasn’t brought in as a specialist fielder but that is what he has proven himself to be
 
All the names in this thread had shown at least some talent with the bat in their early days unlike Imran.
 
Shows that the confidence of his catching isn't being transferred to his batting.

Therefore it's technical aspects of his batting that need addressing rather than anything to do with his confidence.
 
He's taking some great catches that our other options (Azhar, Abid etc) would drop. You can argue that he's creating wickets for us.

I'd much rather drop Abid and Azhar before him, but he definitely needs to get his batting together. Head falls over way too much, huge gap between bat and pad....to begin with.
 
Hassan Raza was a good slips fielder but a terrible batsman lol. However, he was better than Imran.
 
Saj said:
Shows that the confidence of his catching isn't being transferred to his batting.

Therefore it's technical aspects of his batting that need addressing rather than anything to do with his confidence.
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Looked better in the second innings though with more intent. If Imran Butt can maintain a batting average of 30 he could still be an asset. The sad thing is that we hardly play any test cricket these days so if he gets picked again for tests it could be a good few months.
 
gazza619 said:
Looked better in the second innings though with more intent. If Imran Butt can maintain a batting average of 30 he could still be an asset. The sad thing is that we hardly play any test cricket these days so if he gets picked again for tests it could be a good few months.
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Well the next assignment is Bangladesh.

A good slips fielder in Pakistan is a rarity. We need someone like Imran, he's a unicorn in my eyes.
 
Shoaibbtt said:
Well the next assignment is Bangladesh.

A good slips fielder in Pakistan is a rarity. We need someone like Imran, he's a unicorn in my eyes.
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Isnt that 3-4 months down the line? This long break is really bad for our test players. Azhar Ali has already depreciated quicker due to not playing enough test cricket.
 
gazza619 said:
I think Hassan Raza was born in the wrong era.

He could easily have found a spot in the team today.
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I think most Pakistani batsmen would have.

Guys like Yasir Hameed, Imran Farhat etc would be regulars in this line-up.
 
So the guy who is star catcher can't score at all.
the guy who can at least bash minnows / score at home, can't catch at all.
real issue here, options:
1) drop both, ignore the catching and scoring against minnows. just go with better openers instead, better in long-run.
2) drop Abid, he is older and anyone can do minnow bashing. put a special program by sending Imran to work with Mohammed Yusuf at NHPC for 2 months to iron out his issues and see if he can at least become a 30+ avg opener.
3) keep imran in all squads, specialist 12th man and slip fielding coach. see if we can somehow have him on during first 10 overs of new ball spell if anyone has any niggle, cramps, bio break needed, etc. meanwhile see if we can train others to become better at slip catching.
 
He may not be the best opener in Pakistan, but at the moment I would still stick by him. We have to quantify his impact on the game. He may be averaging 18-19 with the bat but he's saving 50 runs at least every Test match with his slip catching.

So his net impact on a Test match is still a healthy 70 runs. That's a 35 average. If you brought in another opener, chances are he's not going to do any better than a 35 average. So I'd stick with Imran Butt. Maybe he'll get better with playing home Tests and scoring there and that flows into overseas tests. He did score a dogged 91 against SA against Rabada, Nortje, Maharaj so it's not like he's a complete dud with the bat.

If anything, it's Abid Ali who needs to pack his bags and get replaced by Imam.
 
shariqnoor said:
He may not be the best opener in Pakistan, but at the moment I would still stick by him. We have to quantify his impact on the game. He may be averaging 18-19 with the bat but he's saving 50 runs at least every Test match with his slip catching.

So his net impact on a Test match is still a healthy 70 runs. That's a 35 average. If you brought in another opener, chances are he's not going to do any better than a 35 average. So I'd stick with Imran Butt. Maybe he'll get better with playing home Tests and scoring there and that flows into overseas tests. He did score a dogged 91 against SA against Rabada, Nortje, Maharaj so it's not like he's a complete dud with the bat.

If anything, it's Abid Ali who needs to pack his bags and get replaced by Imam.
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The 91 was Zimbabwe lol. Against SA his highest score was 15.
 
I love the guys fielding , but the reality is after 6 tests he averages 18.
Whilst he saves runs by his catching, in essence it don’t make much difference if we don’t put enough runs on the board .

Let’s see where he is after 10 tests , and see if his batting average is on a upward trajectory.

His first class average is 35 , so whether he will even reach the level of averaging 30 looks difficult but not impossible, it’s down to him now to work on his game and temperament.
 
All Butts are great fielders, Imran Butt, Salman Butt, Sikander Raza Butt. :afridi
 
mon858 said:
So the guy who is star catcher can't score at all.
the guy who can at least bash minnows / score at home, can't catch at all.
real issue here, options:
1) drop both, ignore the catching and scoring against minnows. just go with better openers instead, better in long-run.
2) drop Abid, he is older and anyone can do minnow bashing. put a special program by sending Imran to work with Mohammed Yusuf at NHPC for 2 months to iron out his issues and see if he can at least become a 30+ avg opener.
3) keep imran in all squads, specialist 12th man and slip fielding coach. see if we can somehow have him on during first 10 overs of new ball spell if anyone has any niggle, cramps, bio break needed, etc. meanwhile see if we can train others to become better at slip catching.
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Sadly both openers have already had stints with both, YK and MoYo.

The delta between what he is what he needs to be seems to big to be bridged with some garnish right now. Let’s see. Stranger things have happened.
 
gazza619 said:
Third of them are schemers and fixers based on that dangerous sample.
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Everyone has their vices but he was probably Pakistan's best opener in the mid to late 2000s and was a good slip fielder IIRC. Asif was also a fixer but we can't deny he was a phenomenal bowler.
 
I wish this guy could bat. He would be an all time legend!

As it stands, he needs serious improvement with the bat. If he can't improve, then he should not be replaced with an opener with similar stats in domestic cricket. That would just be a downgrade. If he is to be replaced, then Azhar Ali should open and Saud Shahkeel/Kamran Ghulam/Usman Sallihudin should replace him.

Abid Ali on the other hand has nothing going for him and needs to be replaced ASAP.
 
I totally understand that as a opener you should be able to bat first, but as far as I’m concerned with Pakistan our catching is so poor that I’d rather go with a player who sometimes fails in his main job but brings something no one else does to another facet of the game!
 
Thephenom said:
I totally understand that as a opener you should be able to bat first, but as far as I’m concerned with Pakistan our catching is so poor that I’d rather go with a player who sometimes fails in his main job but brings something no one else does to another facet of the game!
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Minnow mentality
 
Roger Harper the West Indian who played in the 1980's. Was an average spinner, a capable lower order batsman but a brilliant fielder. He was often in the side just because of his fielding.
 
Abid and Azhar deserve the boot before him.

Abid has let himself go but I believe on sun continent he still be okish. I would rather try imam but he will struggle vs spin big time. Also Butt should be given a prolonged run.

He doesn’t need to bat if he fields like this.
 
Ijaz Ahmed in 92 WC played in the team solely as a fielder. IK has said that multiple times.
 
From the evidence so far, Butt is a terrible player but a great slipper. Going forward, he should go back to domestic and score and improve, otherwise that will be it for him no matter how brilliant he is as a slipper
 
Shadab Khan is a specialist fielder, whose batting and bowling are club level.

Jadeja has several times been preferred to Ashwin only because of his fielding. Though he's an accomplished batsman and bowler
 
marlonbrowndo said:
Minnow mentality
Click to expand...

Fielding also wins you matches,Viv Richards failed with the bat in Wc 1975 final but he made the impact with the field by taking 3 runouts and thus winning the first World Cup but I agree with you Butt should improve his batting.
 
Until Pakistan had Younis Khan, the difference he made to team’s fielding was I’d argue as important as his batting.

Imran is unfortunately no younis. He should not be in the team until he fixes his batting - which I feel he is not capable of.

His impact of fielding is nullified when your No 4 is walking in at 10 for 2, making Pakistan chase the game, time are time.
 
Yes he’s a good fielder but that shouldn’t be why he’s in the team. He needs to contribute with the bat but unfortunately him and Abid ali have been walking wickets and saved their place after bashing minnows Zimbabwe in the last series.

As an opener your main role is to see of the new ball and score runs. Not be 2/3 and try make up in the field. Saud shakeel should be in place of 1 of the openers with azhar coming up to the top.
 
Savak said:
Jhonty Rhodes. He very rarely performed with the bat.
Click to expand...

No comparison. Rhodes was a very decent batter and was mainly picked for his batting. His fielding was a big big bonus for SA. 5 centuries, 50 fiftys , over 8500 runs in tests and ODIs with 35 average at no 6 in the era of 90s and wary 2000 is not a joke.
 
Might as well, this guy should be picked as the 15th person in every squad and snuck into the side just so that you have a safe fielder in the slips.

Pakistan’s best slip fielder in this squad (Salman Agha) is himself struggling now and could well be dropped going forward. But Pakistan has to come up with a better slip cordon going forward when touring SENA.

What I recon….

Rizwan (wicket keeper…but needs to calm down and not jump around all the time to create nervous energy)

First slip: Babar Azam
Second Slip: Salman Agha
Third: Imran Butt

Fourth: vacant

5th/Gully: Shan Masood

You might also have to start thinking about bringing Iftikhar into the side at some point. He is a decent/confident slip fielder too.

Also I feel Mir Hamza is under-utilised as a fielder, and I don’t see any harm in him being put into a catching position. Shane Warne was a bowler but he was always a mainstay in the slips or in catching positions, he had buckets for hands.
 
Abdullah Shafique needs to be dropped himself for 5-6 test matches to be made an example of on those dropped catches alone.

If you don’t take fielding seriously, you will be named and shamed. Cannot be dropping dangerous batsmen after your bowlers are breaking their backs trying to create chances and best you can do after dropping a catch is pretend to look dumbfounded.
 
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Look at the Indian youngsters

Gill and Jaiswal are natural slippers/catchers. You can’t be a Test great batsman if you can’t be relied upon as a slip catcher…I don’t recall any Test great batsman who was a poor catcher. (maybe Mohammad Yousuf wasn’t agile but he didn’t drop catches from what I recall).

Kevin Pietersen dropped 5 catches in Test before he took one…but KP was an absolute freak talent with the bat and was a phenomenal athlete. He more than made up going forward.
 
Rana said:
Might as well, this guy should be picked as the 15th person in every squad and snuck into the side just so that you have a safe fielder in the slips.

Pakistan’s best slip fielder in this squad (Salman Agha) is himself struggling now and could well be dropped going forward. But Pakistan has to come up with a better slip cordon going forward when touring SENA.

What I recon….

Rizwan (wicket keeper…but needs to calm down and not jump around all the time to create nervous energy)

First slip: Babar Azam
Second Slip: Salman Agha
Third: Imran Butt

Fourth: vacant

5th/Gully: Shan Masood

You might also have to start thinking about bringing Iftikhar into the side at some point. He is a decent/confident slip fielder too.

Also I feel Mir Hamza is under-utilised as a fielder, and I don’t see any harm in him being put into a catching position. Shane Warne was a bowler but he was always a mainstay in the slips or in catching positions, he had buckets for hands.
Click to expand...

Iftikhar dropped 2 or 3 catches at the slip during world cup 2023 he's poor in that position, but it would be a good shout to bring him as a batsmen and 2nd spin option
 
emranabbas said:
Iftikhar dropped 2 or 3 catches at the slip during world cup 2023 he's poor in that position, but it would be a good shout to bring him as a batsmen and 2nd spin option
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Yes he isn’t perfect for the slips but he is definitely confident. Imran Butt is perfect for slips, phenomenal sense of anticipation
 
Imran Butt is probably one of the best slip fielders I have seen from Pakistan but we can't keep him in the side only based on his fielding performance because he is below par with the bat.
 
Rana said:
Might as well, this guy should be picked as the 15th person in every squad and snuck into the side just so that you have a safe fielder in the slips.

Pakistan’s best slip fielder in this squad (Salman Agha) is himself struggling now and could well be dropped going forward. But Pakistan has to come up with a better slip cordon going forward when touring SENA.

What I recon….

Rizwan (wicket keeper…but needs to calm down and not jump around all the time to create nervous energy)

First slip: Babar Azam
Second Slip: Salman Agha
Third: Imran Butt

Fourth: vacant

5th/Gully: Shan Masood

You might also have to start thinking about bringing Iftikhar into the side at some point. He is a decent/confident slip fielder too.

Also I feel Mir Hamza is under-utilised as a fielder, and I don’t see any harm in him being put into a catching position. Shane Warne was a bowler but he was always a mainstay in the slips or in catching positions, he had buckets for hands.
Click to expand...
Well it's a novel suggestion to grant someone place in side just because of fielding.
 
Rana said:
Well, you all wanted Rizwan in the side because he is a better keeper
Click to expand...

Are you creating threads so that every reply can have some reference to Rizwan?

We have now merged this thread but it should really have been removed.
 
given how crap pak batsmen are now, im pretty sure imran butt would be a net positive with his catching at this stage.
 
he had alot of potential but sad to see he couldnt showcase his talent at international level

 
Talking about specialist fielders, there has been none better than Eknath Solkar at forward shortleg. Always remained low and never got up early scared. The Indian spin quartet in the 70s got more wickets than just the catches he took because the batters would try to play the ball on the other side wary of Solkar crouching at shortleg and made mistakes doing that. Here’s what they say about him:

 
With the national team already thin on talent & quality, talk of a specialist fielder is a long dream
 
Few good knocks but I am not sure that he will survive too much like he did in Tests... There should be no place in the team just because you are a good fielder... Like shadab, we need to get out of this mentality.

Imran is scoring runs and he should continue doing that in more games so he can make his case strong. Not a blind slogger he is which is a good thing.
 
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