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Has Wahab Riaz run out of fuel at international level?

Rana

Rana

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I regret to make this thread. I liked Riaz as a bowler, but for quite some time now I have come to notice that he really has dried up as a potential wicket taker. His speed has dropped from the occasional 155 kmh to a regular of 139 KMH. Yes that is still fast considering the current bowling speeds in Pakistan, but the signs are there that he is gradually on the decline.

The guy has been over worked for the past 3 years or so and has been phenomenal at times, however I think if Pakistan want to maximize his quality as a fast bowler they must give him a lengthy lay off from International cricket, some time to recuperate mentally and physically. I can clearly see the guy is being over-worked at his age and his bowling is becoming more and more clumsy with the short-wide stuff and his no-ball problem.
 
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I can assure you he's the worst bowler in international circuit.
 
He is enjoying free ride for a while. Can't remember when he actually fired other than a single spell in WC.
 
but but he puts some efforts in his bowling and bowls with a great heart.

It is getting painful to watch him bowl those no balls now. and the his short pitch bowling without any variations,without any line.
 
NO not at all probably got exhausted this test matches takes lot out of genuine quick bowlers should have been given a rest this odi series I wouldn't say drop
 
You're just deluded.

One can run of out something only if they ever had it!
 
MRSN said:
I agree with you..but I wish most Pak fans could understand this simple thing too.
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Yes that's very tragic, my love for Pakistan cricket is diminishing with each passing day and its not easy to reconcile.

Hasan Ali has played a handful of games and he has already been an upgrade, he might be expensive but he has the knack of picking wickets. Fast Bowlers are a breed that have far less longevity and durability as compared to batsmen and spinners and should be used such, a team should be open minded to bring in changes regularly not only to maintain their fitness levels but also to assess their performance against his competitors, and then use those bowlers according to the conditions that suit their strengths, unless of course you have an exceptional player of the calibre of Mcgrath, Wasim etc. I get the impression that there are no fast bowlers in Pakistan, before Hasan Ali how many bowlers have been tried, its the same lot gul, wahab, sami, irfan, Imran, Rahat Sohail khan, who have repeatedly been selected across all formats. In the meantime, they don't have the patience to give the same time to the young batsmen to develop their game, diametrically opposite to what the entire world does. Brilliant PCB logic.
 
Hawkeye said:
You're just deluded.

One can run of out something only if they ever had it!
Click to expand...

What did he not have?

He had height, speed, the ability to swing the ball when pitching fuller, a good bouncer and a slower ball. He had it all, maybe age was not on his side as he made his debut quite late
 
spade said:
Yes that's very tragic, my love for Pakistan cricket is diminishing with each passing day and its not easy to reconcile.

Hasan Ali has played a handful of games and he has already been an upgrade, he might be expensive but he has the knack of picking wickets. Fast Bowlers are a breed that have far less longevity and durability as compared to batsmen and spinners and should be used such, a team should be open minded to bring in changes regularly not only to maintain their fitness levels but also to assess their performance against his competitors, and then use those bowlers according to the conditions that suit their strengths, unless of course you have an exceptional player of the calibre of Mcgrath, Wasim etc. I get the impression that there are no fast bowlers in Pakistan, before Hasan Ali how many bowlers have been tried, its the same lot gul, wahab, sami, irfan, Imran, Rahat Sohail khan, who have repeatedly been selected across all formats. In the meantime, they don't have the patience to give the same time to the young batsmen to develop their game, diametrically opposite to what the entire world does. Brilliant PCB logic.
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exactly. Today again they are out with their knives for 'Umar Akmal' who was making his comeback after a year. This is why our batting woes are never ending story. The guy who should have been presisted with was dropped for the guys YK and Asad in 2014 by brilliant Misbah. Now see his downfall. I think we might have lost another gem in batting. PCB can't get their system right but what is even worse is it can't back the best players it got.
 
The end of Wahab?

If it is, it couldn't come soon enough.

He has been thoroughly mediocre, and a liability most of his international career, excepting a handful of notable performances. But, a handful of performances don't make a good player when drowned out by rank rubbish.

His numbers have clearly shown that he is amongst the worst of a shortlist of 25 or so bowlers in Pakistan, whether in tests or ODIs. And Australia is by far his best geography. He shouldn't play for Pakistan again in my opinion, he has been given plenty of chances.

Not that I expect it will make any difference to those unable to accept a reality, but this just goes to show how idiotic the obsession with pace is. Its interesting to note that even amongst a super phaast Aussie attack of Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood, the 120kph Faulkner was the best performer today for them.

The second conclusion to draw from his recent returns is that it is patently idiotic to extrapolate a single series or game. He did perform better than his peers in the test series (on his strongest geography) but was still mediocre (the others were sub-mediocre); and more importantly, he has reverted to type and reverted to rubbish - which is what his career stats point towards.

There's no denying it, theres too much evidence, he has to make way for someone else. Lets hope for Pakistan's sake, Junaid takes this opportunity with both hands.
 
I still feel he has a role to play in Perth, where there will be pace and bounce
 
In Pakistan there is never any end of any player. its not how we roll.
 
really hope he doesnt play again.. he is finished, was finished a long ago... practically he doesnt knw how to bowl a full length.. always try to bowl really short... fails to learn...
 
His pace will always make him a tempting option, and on his day he'll knock over any batting line up. The rest of the time he'll spray the ball on both sides of the wicket and continue to get wickets chalked off for overstepping the line.

His career bowling average will tell the story and it will be the same for the rest of our 'talented' pace attack.
 
Is this the end for Wahab Riaz?

A guy, who bowls his heart out. But he lost all his mojo, post, the 2 balls introduction, in ODIs.

He was still good in tests, on dead wickets, with his reverse swing and pace, but was a lot wayward.

In this series, Pakistan found 2 new pacers. Abbas, bowled on par(for a new comer), if not better than Amir (Abbas 15: Amir 13). And, Hassan, looked really good with his reverse swing.

So from being an automatic selection in all 3 formats, ended this tour warming the bench(for most of the part).

With these bowlers being the automatic selection, in each format, will, this be the end of Wahab Riaz?

Tests:

1.M AMIR
2.M ABBAS
3.H ALI

4.W RIAZ
5(If required).R ALI/ S KHAN/ I KHAN/ Other

ODIs

1.M AMIR
2.J KHAN(As of now, he is preferred over W RIAZ)
3.H ALI

4.W RIAZ
5.F ASHRAF

T20's

1.R RAEES
2.H ALI
3.M AMIR

4.S TANVIR
5.W RIAZ
 
He still bowls like a 16 years who doesnt have much idea of line and length , sadly , like chota akmal , he hasnt matured.
 
He has, thankfully. Glad his replacements finally performed. Had to endure crap for such a long time
 
Given that abbas can bowl yorkers and swing the new cherry , wont be a bad choice in CT. Amir , abbas and hassan.
 
Wahab should be discarded tbh at his age he wont get better. We should focus on the future.
 
He will be fresh for Champions Trophy. If we trains the way he did before 2015 World Cup than he will regain those 5kph and would be lethal again InshaAllah.

I am sure Azhar will be working on his noball and follow through issues.


Pakistan will start with Amir, Hasan & Wahab.


Fresh, charged up Wahab will be key for Us.

Wahab has reputation of performing at his best in Champions Trophy and Odi World Cups. Since he hasn't had good last 14 months or so he needs to perform for team and himself otherwise He may be dropped all together in favour of guys like Atif Jabbar.
 
Pakistan are toothless without him. Sure, he goes for the runs but he brings the X factor to our bowling. He is to our bowling attack what Sharjeel was to our batting - without him it would be too one dimensional.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Pakistan are toothless without him. Sure, he goes for the runs but he brings the X factor to our bowling. He is to our bowling attack what Sharjeel was to our batting - without him it would be too one dimensional.
Click to expand...

This is a hallucination.
 
New Yorker said:
This is a hallucination.
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Looks you haven't been watching Pakistan play Test match the last couple of years. He was one of the main reasons why Pakistan got to No.1 ranking. Cricket is not a game judged by stats and figures, if it were, Sachin Tendulkar would have been the biggest match winner.

Wahab Riaz is/was the one man who would bring back the team into the contest with just one spell. He has single handedly won Pakistan more than a couple of Test matches on the back of these fiery spells. His pace and never-say-die attitude is vital for Pakistan to maintain it's dominance in the UAE. The match would have never gone as far as it did yesterday if he had played.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Looks you haven't been watching Pakistan play Test match the last couple of years. He was one of the main reasons why Pakistan got to No.1 ranking. Cricket is not a game judged by stats and figures, if it were, Sachin Tendulkar would have been the biggest match winner.

Wahab Riaz is/was the one man who would bring back the team into the contest with just one spell. He has single handedly won Pakistan more than a couple of Test matches on the back of these fiery spells. His pace and never-say-die attitude is vital for Pakistan to maintain it's dominance in the UAE. The match would have never gone as far as it did yesterday if he had played.
Click to expand...

My apologies. Hallucinations and wishful thinking. Yes, sometimes, very rarely, he is useful. Most of the time he is not. Why would you settle for that kind of mediocrity? To maintain its dominance in the UAE Pakistan might need a spinner to partner Yasir. But the future of Pakistani cricket needs Wahab like a fish needs a bicycle.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Looks you haven't been watching Pakistan play Test match the last couple of years. He was one of the main reasons why Pakistan got to No.1 ranking. Cricket is not a game judged by stats and figures, if it were, Sachin Tendulkar would have been the biggest match winner.

Wahab Riaz is/was the one man who would bring back the team into the contest with just one spell. He has single handedly won Pakistan more than a couple of Test matches on the back of these fiery spells. His pace and never-say-die attitude is vital for Pakistan to maintain it's dominance in the UAE. The match would have never gone as far as it did yesterday if he had played.
Click to expand...

But you do agree that he's a trash LOI bowler, right?
 
You know, I was thinking about this the other day.

The majority of the team picks itself and given a surprise, both Shadab and Imad will play.

Which means that with Amir and Hassan as guaranteed starters, the third bowling spot will go to one of Junaid or Wahab.

Now I have always been a fan of Junaid, and felt he was nothing short of brilliant for us around 2013. At the same time, I think Wahab is a slightly improved version of Sami but has the tendency to produce some brilliant spells which have allowed him to stay on the tesm despite his mediocre performance.

Neither should have been in the squad let alone the playing eleven, but given that they are I am seriously torn between who I would choose.
 
phoenix363 said:
You know, I was thinking about this the other day.

The majority of the team picks itself and given a surprise, both Shadab and Imad will play.

Which means that with Amir and Hassan as guaranteed starters, the third bowling spot will go to one of Junaid or Wahab.

Now I have always been a fan of Junaid, and felt he was nothing short of brilliant for us around 2013. At the same time, I think Wahab is a slightly improved version of Sami but has the tendency to produce some brilliant spells which have allowed him to stay on the tesm despite his mediocre performance.

Neither should have been in the squad let alone the playing eleven, but given that they are I am seriously torn between who I would choose.
Click to expand...

I would go with both Junaid and Wahab playing. While Shadab sits out. We are England, so even though pitches are flat, they are not slow, at least at this ground they will play at, and Wahab will get pace like he did v.s. WI in CT 2013. Ball might swing too, so I will play Junaid.

Also, Shadab might get destroyed by Indian batsman. Their middle-order batsman, Dhoni and Yuvraj, are better against spin. Wahab is a pretty good hitter too on his day. I will take his experience over Shadab. Who hasn't even batted yet in ODIs.

You never know with Wahab. He might give a match-winning spell. So I will play him.
 
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He reminds me of South Africa Nantie Hayward also known as "wayward Hayward".

The guy had raw pace. He could crank it up in 150's kph but the guy lacked disciple. He bowled too many short pitched deliveries, too many wides and too many 'no balls'. The captain warned him to bowl with more discipline and he started bowling around 135 kph

Ultimately he had to be dropped .

I remember the day when inzi almosed killed hin

 
Rayyman said:
I would go with both Junaid and Wahab playing. While Shadab sits out. We are England, so even though pitches are flat, they are not slow, at least at this ground they will play at, and Wahab will get pace like he did v.s. WI in CT 2013. Ball might swing too, so I will play Junaid.

Also, Shadab might get destroyed by Indian batsman. Their middle-order batsman, Dhoni and Yuvraj, are better against spin. Wahab is a pretty good hitter too on his day. I will take his experience over Shadab. Who hasn't even batted yet in ODIs.

You never know with Wahab. He might give a match-winning spell. So I will play him.
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I can see this happening given Shadab's performance in the test match which has somewhat brought him back down to Earth. However I actually really rate his bowling in limited over cricket and think that he can provide some crucial breakthroughs in the middle overs. Tahir has performed well if I'm not mistaken and India dont have the same quality of players against spin that they used to.

I agree about Wahab though, hence i would go with him. He still has the pace, gives a 100%, is a very good fielder and like you said can bat well on his day. Junaid is a shadow of his former self and might get an early breakthrough but will likely get hit around the park.
 
Yes! Wahab's best is most probably behind him now. He is still living off that awesome spell against the Aussies in the World Cup. Doesn't take enough wickets to merit a place in the side.
 
phoenix363 said:
I can see this happening given Shadab's performance in the test match which has somewhat brought him back down to Earth. However I actually really rate his bowling in limited over cricket and think that he can provide some crucial breakthroughs in the middle overs. Tahir has performed well if I'm not mistaken and India dont have the same quality of players against spin that they used to.

I agree about Wahab though, hence i would go with him. He still has the pace, gives a 100%, is a very good fielder and like you said can bat well on his day. Junaid is a shadow of his former self and might get an early breakthrough but will likely get hit around the park.
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You are right he struggled in Tests, but that shouldn't affect ODI performance. India's new batsman aren't as good against spin as previous ones, but the new batsman don't bat in the middle-order. #4 is Yuvraj Singh and #5 is MS Dhoni. Yuvraj especially is great against leg-spin and I can see him spanking Shadab for some sixes.

Junaid is most likely done now as a player, but he has been picked so let's give him a chance. Otherwise, he will be around the team for a few more years while complaining for chances just like Umar Gul. It's better for Junaid to get exposed now.

Wahab is also in the team so let's give him a chance and see if he can live up to the hype. The worst thing for me is seeing seniors sitting on the bench. If you will have players carrying drinks, they should be youngsters. Not Wahab Riaz.
 
Spraygun never had it. The only reason he played so many matches is because others were more useless.
 
Rayyman said:
You are right he struggled in Tests, but that shouldn't affect ODI performance. India's new batsman aren't as good against spin as previous ones, but the new batsman don't bat in the middle-order. #4 is Yuvraj Singh and #5 is MS Dhoni. Yuvraj especially is great against leg-spin and I can see him spanking Shadab for some sixes.

Junaid is most likely done now as a player, but he has been picked so let's give him a chance. Otherwise, he will be around the team for a few more years while complaining for chances just like Umar Gul. It's better for Junaid to get exposed now.

Wahab is also in the team so let's give him a chance and see if he can live up to the hype. The worst thing for me is seeing seniors sitting on the bench. If you will have players carrying drinks, they should be youngsters. Not Wahab Riaz.
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Yuvraj isnt the same player he once was, despite his recent innings and partnership with Dhoni. He actually takes time to get going and I can see him stumped off a Shadab googly going for the big shot. (We should bookmark this and see who's prediction is closer on the day :) )

Agreed about the different formats, but as we well know, such logic is not prevalent in the Pakistan think tank.

I would love to see the TTFs gone for good but I'm really not ready to lose another tournament/ match against India to see it happen.

I also don't agree about the seniors point. For example, Fakhar should be in the team over Azhar or Shehzad, so I would much rather see one of the latter carrying drinks despite their seniority since it is fair. (Not going to happen though, so a moot point)
 
A lot has been invested in Wahab Riaz since his debut in 2010 but his performances remain as inconsistent now as they were a few years ago with little improvement.

He was more effective in LOIs when he could utilise reverse swing. Now with two new balls that is redundant.

He still has poor control over his line and length, doesn't offer any swing due to his wrist position and whilst lately his no-balls issues weren't as bad as it was in England, he has costed us several wickets due to overstepping.

He's been a 34 averaging bowler in Tests in the last few years, which is exactly the same as his overall Test bowling average. That's the bowler he is and that's not going to change. Time to move on.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Spraygun never had it. The only reason he played so many matches is because others were more useless.
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It wasn't so much others were more useless - alternative options like Mohammad Abbas who was performing in domestic cricket were never given a chance. Wahab and Rahat were Waqar Younis's undroppable pet projects.
 
Markhor said:
It wasn't so much others were more useless - alternative options like Mohammad Abbas who was performing in domestic cricket were never given a chance. Wahab and Rahat were Waqar Younis's undroppable pet projects.
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If they were Waqar's undroppable pet projects then why did both make it to the following series under Mickey Arthur:

1. England
2. Windies
3. New Zealand
4. Australia
5. Windies (Wahab only, Rahat was to be selected had he not been injured)
 
If Wahab plays he should be told to bowl as fast as he can and get wickets scare the opposition. Indian players cannot handle express pace. But If we 're going to use Wahab to defend than he'll be carted around.
 
Syed1 said:
If they were Waqar's undroppable pet projects then why did both make it to the following series under Mickey Arthur:

1. England
2. Windies
3. New Zealand
4. Australia
5. Windies (Wahab only, Rahat was to be selected had he not been injured)
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You need to understand Mickey was not going to make wholesale changes in his first six months, especially after reaching #1 in the world. Remember what happened with Australia when he made too many changes too fast and alienated the players ? He needed time to assess the talent and then make changes.

He wouldn't have been familiar with the domestic talent like Mohammad Abbas until he actually saw him bowl - and he did pick Abbas after the pre-series training camp.
 
Speedster777 said:
If Wahab plays he should be told to bowl as fast as he can and get wickets scare the opposition. Indian players cannot handle express pace. But If we 're going to use Wahab to defend than he'll be carted around.
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Macho nonsense. Who is scared of a spray gun? The problem with Wahab
is not that managemen told him don't bowl fast. It's that speed alone won't
make you effective.
 
^ It's not macho nonsense it's common sense speed always works irrespective of the pitch. Wahab 's fast and furious spell reduced India to below par total in WC 2011 semi final.
 
I'd much rather go for Junaid instead of Wahab. Him and Amir would form a good opening combo for our ODI bowling attack with Hasan as our third seamer. That's actually a really good bowling attack if you think about it.
 
ExplicitAI said:
I'd much rather go for Junaid instead of Wahab. Him and Amir would form a good opening combo for our ODI bowling attack with Hasan as our third seamer. That's actually a really good bowling attack if you think about it.
Click to expand...
No it isn't.

Amir is useless unless the pitch is covered in grass, Junaid bowls gun barrel straight at 135 km/h and Hasan can be taken to the cleaners one day and pick up a five-fer the next.
 
Ellipsism said:
No it isn't.

Amir is useless unless the pitch is covered in grass, Junaid bowls gun barrel straight at 135 km/h and Hasan can be taken to the cleaners one day and pick up a five-fer the next.
Click to expand...

Well I would prefer having the best combination possible and it ain't the best out there; all three are miles better than Wahab who can't bowl a dot ball to save his life.
 
On the bright side, he is getting a much needed rest after a grueliing work load in the last year. This will also make him realize that he no longer has an automatic place in the squad and will make him hungrier whenever he gets a chance back.
 
It was about time that we gave youngsters a chance and they grabbed it with both hands. Abbas and Hassan has shown that there are better bowlers in our domestics than Wahab.
 
This man turns it up in tournaments. I remember last time he had a good few games in the CT.

Deserves a go over gun barrel 130kph Junaid Khan
 
I would definitely play him over mediocre junaid he has good record in ICC tournaments expecting him to perform in this tournament!
 
Speedster777 said:
^ It's not macho nonsense it's common sense speed always works irrespective of the pitch. Wahab 's fast and furious spell reduced India to below par total in WC 2011 semi final.
Click to expand...

You are ridiculous. It is not as if we don't have evidence to test this claim of
yours. Why, if speed *always* works can you not name more than one 5 fer
by Wahab in 78 international attempts, whereas Hasan already has 2 in 16
matches? Why does he average a miserable 33 in ODIs, not 21?
 
New Yorker said:
You are ridiculous. It is not as if we don't have evidence to test this claim of
yours. Why, if speed *always* works can you not name more than one 5 fer
by Wahab in 78 international attempts, whereas Hasan already has 2 in 16
matches? Why does he average a miserable 33 in ODIs, not 21?
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Why was Shoaib AKhtar one of the deadliest bowlers of all time? Why were some of best batsmen of their time Ponting, tendulkar, Langer scared to face his thunderbolts??? They didn't echo similar views about facing medium pacers. How did Wahab get Clarke's wicket in WC quarter final? The same bouncers at a medium pace would have been thrashed for six.
 
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Wahab is rightly being made to earn his place again.
 
Speedster777 said:
Why was Shoaib AKhtar one of the deadliest bowlers of all time? Why were some of best batsmen of their time Ponting, tendulkar, Langer scared to face his thunderbolts??? They didn't echo similar views about facing medium pacers. How did Wahab get Clarke's wicket in WC quarter final? The same bouncers at a medium pace would have been thrashed for six.
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You are arguing for Wahab by citing Akthar's record? I too wish that Wahab could emulate Shoaib's
performances but he has never managed that in his entire career and I don't know why we would
expect him to at this age. The point is not speed is useless. Speed without skill is useless. See under:
Wahab.

I think this is as far as we go.
 
If Mickey is intelligent enough he should play four pacers against India and SRL in the CT

And the four pacers should be Amir, junaid, hasan, Wahab,

Drop imad or shadab against India and SRL. Yes get to play them against SA to make the spin web.

If pak use their team wisely they will surprise top teams in this tournament
 
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ask_analyse_act said:
If Mickey is intelligent enough he should play four pacers against India and SRL in the CT

And the four pacers should be Amir, junaid, hasan, Wahab,

Drop imad or shadab against India and SRL. Yes get to play them against SA to make the spin web.

If pak use their team wisely they will surprise top teams in this tournament
Click to expand...

Depends on the conditions to be honest, if it is a green top then we need swing and seam bowlers, Wahab just hits the deck and will be gun barrel straight which will play right into India's hands.
 
Savak said:
Depends on the conditions to be honest, if it is a green top then we need swing and seam bowlers, Wahab just hits the deck and will be gun barrel straight which will play right into India's hands.
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No way it's gonna be a green top. Wahab should play ahead of junaid
 
Savak said:
Depends on the conditions to be honest, if it is a green top then we need swing and seam bowlers, Wahab just hits the deck and will be gun barrel straight which will play right into India's hands.
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Generally batsmen doesnt like to face pace on a pitch and conditions that helps pace bowlers, asian batsmen struggles big time on it as they are alien conditions for them...

They did the same mistake in CWC2015 playing yasir shah against INDIA who gave away so many runs... out of their 300 score they made 150 of spinners in 20 overs and same 150 from pacers in 30 overs..

pak think tank has always been poor in this regard for so many years.. i expect them to do the same stuff again and again.. cricket has evolved into a more mind game.
 
aliasad1998 said:
No way it's gonna be a green top. Wahab should play ahead of junaid
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i will play both, Indians after playing a month long IPL will find it very difficult to play against pacers in breezy conditions with more life in the pitch for pacers...

Even if it is not a green top, it will not bounce like it would in bangalore and chennai....
 
Wahab should not play any match now , we cant afford another 100 runs spell.

Amir , junaid and hasan will be fine.
 
JibranAnsari said:
Wahab should not play any match now , we cant afford another 100 runs spell.

Amir , junaid and hasan will be fine.
Click to expand...

Shame no one is thinking about the CT as an opportunity to invest in new talent. Wahab is not likely to be top drawer options for the WC and it would be very useful to see how up and coming talent performs on big match occasions. Junaid is the wrong choice also for this reason.
 
New Yorker said:
Shame no one is thinking about the CT as an opportunity to invest in new talent. Wahab is not likely to be top drawer options for the WC and it would be very useful to see how up and coming talent performs on big match occasions. Junaid is the wrong choice also for this reason.
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We have a double tragedy , wahab goes over 9 and over and our openers barely score 40 in the first 10 if we are lucky. At least cut some weaknesses.
 
This myth of him being a 'big match' player is likely to get busted very soon. He is a fluke bowler and most of his fluke performances have come in tournaments. Nonetheless, this really should be his last year in international cricket. He is legit one of the worst bowlers in the world and pure cannon-fodder.
 
He has lost some pace, but still very accurate and bowls good yorkers.

Ideal for T20 cricket and the death overs in ODI.
 
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