Have the India-Pakistan encounters lost their sheen?

[ftbno1]

Their was a time when India Pakistan was a do or die match for both teams.Infact the childhood memory of mine with respect to criclet was Aamir Sohail -Venky duel in 1996
1999 Kargil background
2003 Sachin -Shohaib duel
2007 t20 final
2011 WC SF
Above were the matches where as an indian fan how really tense.I remember like yesterday each and every moments of the match tension in Indian fans when Sachin got out in 2003 or when Misbah hit bhajji for three sixes or when Wahab bowled Yuvi.
But post 2011 I feel no sense of tension or dread when India is playing Pakistan and will genuinely not be too sad if Pakistan defeats us on 4th of june.
One of the main reason is amazing fall of stardom of Pakistan players.While earlier Pak teams inspired awe with players like Saeed anwar,Inzamam,IzazAhmed,Salim Malik,shohaib akhtar,Wasim akram etc. Their is no threat in current team.If shohaib ran through our side or Saeed Anwar smacked our bowler we felt despondent.But now If some pakistsni younster bowls well(like amir did) we praise him because he is no Shohaib akhtar whose stardom challenged stardom of our cricketers.I am pretty sure most wont be able to name five pakistani cricketers in CT2017.
In the end I would just say let the best team win on 4 june and India win CT 2017 offcourse.

 

[JibranAnsari]

I am not much excited either , just another match.

 

[captain crook]

Indians still value Pakistan as their main opponent. Indians don't care if they lose the trophy but beat Pakistan. Even a half decent Pakistan team can cause some deep thought in Indian camp. All the talk about 'moving on' is a joke. Look at the ad campaigns. Indians are obsessed with Pakistan.

 

[ftbno1]

Indians still value Pakistan as their main opponent. Indians don't care if they lose the trophy but beat Pakistan. Even a half decent Pakistan team can cause some deep thought in Indian camp. All the talk about 'moving on' is a joke. Look at the ad campaigns. Indians are obsessed with Pakistan.

Ad campaign is testement creativity of starports ad capmaign rather then obsession of india about pakistan.We are more worried about first quater and appraisal then pakistan.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Ad campaign is testement creativity of starports ad capmaign rather then obsession of india about pakistan.We are more worried about first quater and appraisal then pakistan.

More than a billion people tune into this match every time. Its one of the most watched event in world sport.

Why don't you tell your buddies to not watch if you think we are not important. Keep trying and trying to make us irrelevant, you will never succeed.

 

[ftbno1]

More than a billion people tune into this match every time. Its one of the most watched event in world sport.

Why don't you tell your buddies to not watch if you think we are not important. Keep trying and trying to make us irrelevant, you will never succeed.

Bhai not once did I say it is not viewed by cricket lovers I am saying passion has gone down .I come from small city of haryana where it was curfew like situationin the city during 2007 wc final and 2011 sf because everyone was vlued to a tv sonwhere.Such passion has been lost since then.

 

[czar]

Absolutely correct, there is no excitement in Indian Pakistan matches anymore compared to before. It's like the Aussie fans getting bored after winning a number of World Cups, that feeling is gone.

 

[Pete Rose]

Yes. Because pakistan loses all of them. The result is foretold the moment the draw is announced

 

[czar]

Indians still value Pakistan as their main opponent. Indians don't care if they lose the trophy but beat Pakistan. Even a half decent Pakistan team can cause some deep thought in Indian camp. All the talk about 'moving on' is a joke. Look at the ad campaigns. Indians are obsessed with Pakistan.

Lol dream on and don't think your team is so important. And I don't know why Pakistanis keep talking about these ads again and again . Advertisers really want people to be passionate about matches because they want to maximize their revenues doesn't mean India Pakistan contest have the same fire like before.

 

[santos11]

More than a billion people tune into this match every time. Its one of the most watched event in world sport.

Why don't you tell your buddies to not watch if you think we are not important. Keep trying and trying to make us irrelevant, you will never succeed.

More than a Billion people would also watch a semi or Final against SL or Australia. That's the Indian population magic.

BTW, if your team was so relevant your players would have been playing in the IPL and Indian public would be crazy for them. But that's not the case .

Whatever little relevance India Pakistan matches have is only because of border skirmishes otherwise qualitywise Pakistan would be on the Bottom below Bangladesh as an opponent ATM. It's a fake shallow rivalry, hyped by politics .

 

[Pete Rose]

I am not much excited either , just another match.

You mean just another match to lose

 

[hafeezrocks]

The intensity and excitement for the major India Pakistan matches in ICC tourneys has indeed reduced due to mainly one sided contests in favor of India.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Rivalry is still there. It is just that Indian fans are so sure of their Cricketing superiority that there is hardly anything to prove.

 

[ftbno1]

Rivalry is still there. It is just that Indian fans are so sure of their Cricketing superiority that there is hardly anything to prove.

This!! After beating Pakistan in Final 2007 t20 Wc & SF WC 2011 their is nothing more indian team can do do which would be as pleasing or enthralling for indian fans.

 

[Rafa]

I am pretty sure most wont be able to name five pakistani cricketers in CT2017.

Are you serious? From when onwards did Indians become so ignorant of Cricketers?

 

[ftbno1]

Are you serious? From when onwards did Indians become so ignorant of Cricketers?

Ignorant of Pakistani criceters because we dont play much against them.
Ang no pakistani cricketer had done any thing to demand any recognition in recent times(other then Mohd. Amir offcourse).

 

[Rayyman]

Players are a bit softer now. At least in the Indian side they are.
Guys like Rohit, Rahane, Dhoni, Ashwin, etc. are too nice.

I want to see aggression from the Pakistan boys. 140k bouncers from Amir. 140k toe crushers from Hasan. Imad trash-talking the Indian batsman. Our batsman staring down their bowlers.

Need to fire things up. Oldies will disagree with me, but we have to be ruthless against India.

 

[Speedster777]

Players are a bit softer now. At least in the Indian side they are.
Guys like Rohit, Rahane, Dhoni, Ashwin, etc. are too nice.

I want to see aggression from the Pakistan boys. 140k bouncers from Amir. 140k toe crushers from Hasan. Imad trash-talking the Indian batsman. Our batsman staring down their bowlers.

Need to fire things up. Oldies will disagree with me, but we have to be ruthless against India.

Fully agreed. We should demolish them with aggressive cricket. Imad, Amir and Junaid will definitely give them a mouthful.

 

[ftbno1]

Players are a bit softer now. At least in the Indian side they are.
Guys like Rohit, Rahane, Dhoni, Ashwin, etc. are too nice.

I want to see aggression from the Pakistan boys. 140k bouncers from Amir. 140k toe crushers from Hasan. Imad trash-talking the Indian batsman. Our batsman staring down their bowlers.

Need to fire things up. Oldies will disagree with me, but we have to be ruthless against India.

Ability matters.Viv richard amd sehwag were most ruthless who would destroy oppositions while giving million dollar smile.
However I agree fast bowlers need to be agressive.

 

[Square Drive]

Players are too nice.

And the fact that you lot are so scared to play us in bilaterals doesn't make it any better.

Regular series between the two teams are required.

 

[Pete Rose]

Players are a bit softer now. At least in the Indian side they are.
Guys like Rohit, Rahane, Dhoni, Ashwin, etc. are too nice.
.

You are nice to folks you can beat day in day out when the stakes are high. You save the agro for when you play a top flight team, which Pakistan isnt.

 

[aniket1911]

Lack of star power is very big issue, Indians really can't name many Pakistani players as we don't play against them often neither they are good at ODI which brings recognition.

I can assure you, only player which Indians admire is Amir for his asia cup spell.

How can you expect to take Ind-pak match seriously when Pakistan doesn't have any charismatic players in that format? Still many many people Watch and they will continue to do so because it's India vs Pakistan but its the legacy of the matches played before which sparks the interest not the current mismatch.

 

[ethan hunt]

India / Pakistan has been a closer affair post 2000 than it ever was tbh .
The indian teams of the past were whipping boys of pakistan and world cricket .
A weaker pakistan has made it a much closer affair .

 

[KingKhanWC]

You will see in Birmingham the rivalry is as intense as ever.

Pak and India relations are at a low, this will be a very good show regardless of Pakistan losing but I feel Pak will win it.

 

[Napa]

Of the last 5 games the two countries have played, India has won 4 and Pakistan 1. I think there is still a lot of interest in Indians when it comes to playing Pakistan, though not as much as before due to the results being heavily biased to one side. If Pakistan win the CT game, then definitely the interest in future encounters will increase.

 

[Napa]

The indian teams of the past were whipping boys of pakistan and world cricket .

Try to maintain at least a minimum touch with reality. India were ranked the #1 Test team on 3 separate occasions prior to 2000, and the Indian team at the 1985 World Championship tournament had the greatest performance of a national team at any cricket tournament (which the Aussie teams of 2003 and 2007 close runner-ups).

 

[ethan hunt]

Also people who have watched cricket in the 90s would know that the indian side at the time was terrible . Perhaps the worst major cricketing team from the late 80s to the early 2000s .
For a whole decade the indian team just won 1 test match abroad . The current pakistani side at least in test matches is a lot more competent. India were a zimbabwe level side at the time if you look at the stats. The rivalry was more off the field at the time . On the field it was a mismatch so credit to india for knocking pakistan out of the 96 world cup at the time.
A Stronger India is good for the game . Hope pakistan can improve as well .

 

[PakLFC]

Yes it has. India are a good side where as we are average now set to get even worse after the retirement of Misbah and Younis. The rivalry was top notch when we where equally good if not better 20 years back. Now we appear like a B side in front of them.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes it has. India are a good side where as we are average now set to get even worse after the retirement of Misbah and Younis. The rivalry was top notch when we were equally good if not better 20 years back. Now we appear like a B side in front of them.

 

[ethan hunt]

Try to maintain at least a minimum touch with reality. India were ranked the #1 Test team on 3 separate occasions prior to 2000, and the Indian team at the 1985 World Championship tournament had the greatest performance of a national team at any cricket tournament (which the Aussie teams of 2003 and 2007 close runner-ups).

I was talking about the 90s leading up to 2003 when india were terrible by every definition of the word.
1 oveeseas test win in 10 plus years over multiple tours all over the world. The current pakistan side isnt half as incompetent.

 

[Watsupdoc]

It's because Indians know they can easily beat this Pakistan team.

There are low expectations of a tight match from both sides.

 

[troodon]

India Pak encounters used to be a hue deal back in 90's even when India was getting destroyed most of the times by Pak.

In the past decade or so, the passion has surely gone down. Most people view it as just another game rather than war. Of course the die hard fans and anti-pak fans will make their presence felt.

Most view it like a normal game.

 

[Napa]

I was talking about the 90s leading up to 2003 when india were terrible by every definition of the word.

I didn't realize that one definition of terrible was also "ranked #1 in the world", as indeed the Indian Test team was towards the end of 1995.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_Test_Championship

 

[ethan hunt]

I didn't realize that one definition of terrible was also "ranked #1 in the world", as indeed the Indian Test team was towards the end of 1995.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_Test_Championship

Can you post indias test record , home and away from the 90s . Compare it to other sides . Thanks.

 

[Napa]

1 oveeseas test win in 10 plus years over multiple tours all over the world. The current pakistan side isnt half as incompetent.

I don't know if you really research stuff and get it wrong, or you just say whatever comes to your mind. Taking the period 1994/5 to 2003/ (10 plus years as you say), India had 11 overseas wins, and not 1 as you say.

This is India's test record.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/team/series_results.html?class=1;id=6;type=team

Change the id=6 to id=7 in the above URL and you will get Pakistan. id=2 is Australia etc.

Also the worst losing streak for India was 5 games (against Aus and SA in 1999/00) better than the 6 game losing streak by the current Pakistani team against WI, NZ and Aus.

 

[Napa]

I don't know if you really research stuff and get it wrong, or you just say whatever comes to your mind. Taking the period 1994/5 to 2003/ (10 plus years as you say), India had 11 overseas wins, and not 1 as you say.

Correction, that should be 8, not 11. Still a long way from 1.

 

[ethan hunt]

I don't know if you really research stuff and get it wrong, or you just say whatever comes to your mind. Taking the period 1994/5 to 2003/ (10 plus years as you say), India had 11 overseas wins, and not 1 as you say.

This is India's test record.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/team/series_results.html?class=1;id=6;type=team

Change the id=6 to id=7 in the above URL and you will get Pakistan. id=2 is Australia etc.

Also the worst losing streak for India was 5 games (against Aus and SA in 1999/00) better than the 6 game losing streak by the current Pakistani team against WI, NZ and Aus.

The year 95 ?? .
I said 90s didnt i ?? . Nine , zero .
Also 90s to 2000 is the the decade i am talking about .
95 to 2003 is the the most random decade ever lol. It isnt even that . Its just 8 years.

 

[ethan hunt]

Correction, that should be 8, not 11. Still a long way from 1.

1990 to 2000 .
For a ten year period . India only won a solitary test match away from home against srilanka .
That is a horrible decade of cricket for a major cricketing nation .
India were a poor cricketing nation ( performance wise ) at the time and in no way has pakistan been any worse than that indian side post 2000.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Probably has been a decline in the allure of this game, could a couple of reasons:

1. Lack of stars in Pakistan team: even in the 90s when Pakistan would smash India, India had Tendulkar, Azhar, Kumble, etc. a few world class players and one ATG. Pakistan in the last several years had Shahid Afridi and that is it. Aamir had potential but lost 5 yrs, and isnt the same when he's back. Asif went to hell. None of the other players draw crowds.

2. India's clear superiority: over the last decade, India has been the better team hands down. I remember when we were the better team hands down, it was still fun to watch us thrash India, but it almost became routine. I wonder if it feels the same for Indian fans at the moment.

That said, come June 4, I'm sure every Indian and Pakistani will be hoping to inflict a demoralizing defeat over their opponent. India v Pakistan will always be the most intense, most watched match being played...no matter what format, what time, what form, etc.

 

[Syed1]

India is a far better side so obviously they don't feel the "rivalry". If we beat them a couple of times in a row you can bet your bottom dollar that the "rivalry" will be back on.


However, our beautiful chief selector sent a team in which the top four comprises of Azhar, Shehzad and Hafeez. With a team like this who would want rivalry????

 

[Balthazar]

Pakistan team, at one point of time, was fun to watch but they are an old news now. Now its about playing against teams like SA, Australia and England. These teams are top ODI teams at the moment, and you want to play against the best as much as possible.

 

[KhalidRafi]

Try to maintain at least a minimum touch with reality. India were ranked the #1 Test team on 3 separate occasions prior to 2000, and the Indian team at the 1985 World Championship tournament had the greatest performance of a national team at any cricket tournament (which the Aussie teams of 2003 and 2007 close runner-ups).

Pakistani teams of the past i.e pre 2000 were always far better than India. Overall record is reflective of this.

 

[Savak]

The good thing is that India and Pakistan don't play against each other very often so that adds to the buzz of the contest.

But the other problem is that the Pakistani team has fallen far behind against India in terms of quality match winning players in ODI's and T-20 Cricket that Indian's now feel very confident and assured of victory even before they turn up to the ground. I also feel because of continuous exposure to the IPL, Indian players are now immune to the pressure of a Pakistan India contest and even in the case of a loss, they don't cry or lose sleep over it as if their lives and livelihood are at stake.

 

[Bhaijaan]

As arrogant as it sounds, Pakistan's lack of star power has actually diminished the hype of India-Pakistan rivalry. Back in 90s despite India being weak, they had some genuine superstars. Pakistan of today in ODIs/T20s is one of the most dull teams out there with no real superstars.

 

[Napa]

The year 95 ?? .
I said 90s didnt i ?? . Nine , zero .
Also 90s to 2000 is the the decade i am talking about .
95 to 2003 is the the most random decade ever lol. It isnt even that . Its just 8 years.

When someone says the 90s, they refer to the years 1990 to 1999, to which set the year 1995 definitely belongs. What are we wasting time on here???

 

[Napa]

Pakistani teams of the past i.e pre 2000 were always far better than India. Overall record is reflective of this.

That must be the reason why they were 0-3 against India in the 3 biggest WC games.

 

[Napa]

1990 to 2000 .
For a ten year period . India only won a solitary test match away from home against srilanka .
That is a horrible decade of cricket for a major cricketing nation .
India were a poor cricketing nation ( performance wise ) at the time and in no way has pakistan been any worse than that indian side post 2000.

The precise statement you made was "I was talking about the 90s leading up to 2003 when india were terrible by every definition of the word. 1 oveeseas test win in 10 plus years over multiple tours all over the world". That definitely reads as if you were referring to a period ending in 2003.

Anyway, quibbling about history gets tired soon. As an Indian I am quite satisfied with the current streak of 7 consecutive series victories.

 

[Kabir81]

India Bangladesh matches are come competitive now

 

[Zahid87]

I would like to think its because the scope has widened a bit.

In the 90's India-Pakistan contests were do all, die all games. No side wanted to give an inch.

Felt that started to change in the Jeet lo Dil series in 2004.

Now, we are probably that bit more mature, that bit more aware of each other, where we can see its just a game, and someone has to lose.

 

[KhalidRafi]

That must be the reason why they were 0-3 against India in the 3 biggest WC games.

Don't know what you're trying to imply by bringing 3 out of the 45 one day matches Pakistan and India played during the 90's but i'll try and jog your memory. Despite being unbeaten against Pakistan in WCs the overall head-to-head goes something like this:

1980s: Pakistan 19, India 9
1990s: Pakistan 26, India 19 (Including an 8 match winning streak against India from 98 to 99)
2000s: Pakistan 22, India 18
2010s: Pakistan 3, India 5

I'm not disputing that India has been a far, far better side than Pakistan from 2003 onwards eventhough Pakistan again has the better record from that decade. But the Pakistani side from the 80s and 90s dominated India time and time again and the overall record reflects it.

 

[Napa]

Don't know what you're trying to imply by bringing 3 out of the 45 one day matches Pakistan and India played during the 90's

The only 3 matches with meaning, the rest were just JAMODIs.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

More than a Billion people would also watch a semi or Final against SL or Australia. That's the Indian population magic.

BTW, if your team was so relevant your players would have been playing in the IPL and Indian public would be crazy for them. But that's not the case .

Whatever little relevance India Pakistan matches have is only because of border skirmishes otherwise qualitywise Pakistan would be on the Bottom below Bangladesh as an opponent ATM. It's a fake shallow rivalry, hyped by politics .

Basically you are trying to protect your government. I guess you forget our players participate in only one edition and one of the our players was a bowler of the tournament.

 

[dauntless]

Don't know about sheen ش but ص swad(taste)is all gone.India will win 7/10 of times! But still these matches are very enjoyeable

 

[Sadevdesai]

Anything can happen in a Cricket Match as we all know .... a bowler from the weaker side could have a great day and mess up all the predictions. I would say the Indians are ever so slightly favored just because they have done well against us in the past. I also think that our players have a phobia when they play the Indians, true or not .... only the players know. Also. the next ODI is the first one without YK or Misbah so it all adds up ..... Hmmmmm !!!!

 

[zyrus]

Not at all. And Pakistan is more poised to defeat India. I wish it could be WC instead.

Here are the reasons:

Our team got no superstars, but based on couple of few hardcore consistent performers which are selected on merit.

Most of our players are new. It means that they'll resist to Indian bookies as they will have more desire to perform now so that they can cash in later.

There are multiple players who can perform really good in all conditions. Hasan Ali, Shahdab, Babar, Sarfraz, even Azhar can be effective against any kind of attack. While senior hands of Hafeez and Malik can nullify Indian spin attack and turn the tables on their day.

Sarfraz is a decent captain. He's neither one dimensional like Afridi nor he's overly defensive like Misbah. A little inexperienced but our likely captain to take us all the way.

We perform good in England. A bowling friendly track will bring the best out of our defensive lot (Azhar, Sarfraz, Haris)

I am expected contributions from all bowlers with 1-3 wickets rather than one player getting 5-fer and phainta for rest. Minus Shahdab and Fahim, All of our bowlers (Amir, Junaid, Hasan) can tighten the screws which can be helpful for stopping mighty Indian batting line-up even if they fail to pick up wickets. This is cruical for a flat track.

Our new bunch of players wont be analyzed as much as Wasim,Waqar,Inzi,Afridi and Misbah were in their games.



Expecting a win!

 

[someone21]

^^ Stopped reading when you mentioned "consistent performers". It's consistency which is the biggest issue with these Pakistan cricketers.

 

[Syed1]

As arrogant as it sounds, Pakistan's lack of star power has actually diminished the hype of India-Pakistan rivalry. Back in 90s despite India being weak, they had some genuine superstars. Pakistan of today in ODIs/T20s is one of the most dull teams out there with no real superstars.

This present Pakistan players has the following players who have "star power" or "flair"

1. Sarfaraz
2. Amir
3. Hasan
4. Imad
5. Shadab
6. Babar
7. Malik/Haris (arguably)
8. Junaid/Wahab (very very arguable)

That's about half the side. Don't compare Pakistan of 2011-2016 with the present side. All of the players I listed above have that fighter and never-say-die instinct. We may go down on 4th June but you can bet your bottom dollar that this Pakistan side won't go down without a fight like the sides of yesteryears.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

I used to get excited for every India vs Pakistan matches before, used to skip my tuition, bunk classes but now I hardly care. I find Bangladesh vs India more interesting now. Pakistan doesn't have any superstars anymore

 

[Bhaijaan]

This present Pakistan players has the following players who have "star power" or "flair"

1. Sarfaraz
2. Amir
3. Hasan
4. Imad
5. Shadab
6. Babar
7. Malik/Haris (arguably)
8. Junaid/Wahab (very very arguable)

That's about half the side. Don't compare Pakistan of 2011-2016 with the present side. All of the players I listed above have that fighter and never-say-die instinct. We may go down on 4th June but you can bet your bottom dollar that this Pakistan side won't go down without a fight like the sides of yesteryears.

If you say so but i only see Amir in that list who has some global appeal. I remember times when Pakistan was star studded right from top to bottom.

 

[Kabir81]

The encounters are still fun.. but yes pretty much one sided. It's in 1 or 2 years we get to see a match and lately it has been team India that has been predictively the better team.

The unpredictable nature is no longer there. If someone has to bet his money , it would be a very brave, foolish or extremely patriotic to bet on pakistan

 

[KhalidRafi]

The only 3 matches with meaning, the rest were just JAMODIs.

Sure bro. Whatever satisfies your argument. 42 matches are definitely less important than 3 matches if you consider them JAMODIs.