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How can domestic cricket be blamed when you select players with mediocre FC averages?

Bleedgreen4ever

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Simple as this.

How can we expect to grow as a test nation when the likes of Asad,Azhar,Shan,Sami,Imam,Hafeez who all average in the 30s in FC are selected ahead of players like Fawad,Salahuddin,Saad etc who all average 45+ .

How can the domestic be blamed when you don't select the best domestic players...obviously players who average 30s in Pakistan will end up getting bullied in SENA countries.

This is extremely disappointing.

It shows our selectors don't even look into domestic stats while choosing players.

The problem is with selection not domestic.

Respect domestic and it will produce great players.
 
The state of domestic cricket AND criteria for selection are both problems, from different aspects.
 
Indeed, but to the selectors and team management "looking good in the nets" seem more important.
 
Simple as this.

How can we expect to grow as a test nation when the likes of Asad,Azhar,Shan,Sami,Imam,Hafeez who all average in the 30s in FC are selected ahead of players like Fawad,Salahuddin,Saad etc who all average 45+ .

How can the domestic be blamed when you don't select the best domestic players...obviously players who average 30s in Pakistan will end up getting bullied in SENA countries.

This is extremely disappointing.

It shows our selectors don't even look into domestic stats while choosing players.

The problem is with selection not domestic.

Respect domestic and it will produce great players.

yes, first select best FC averages then decide our domestic cricket to which spot it is.
 
Indeed, but to the selectors and team management "looking good in the nets" seem more important.

That's because the chief selector himself was selected in that manner so he thinks that should be the rule rather than the exception. Revolutionary sahab also forgetting that there is big difference in his eye for talent and IK's :yk




"Doesn't matter as long as my nephew continues to play" :inzi2
 
The state of domestic cricket AND criteria for selection are both problems, from different aspects.

Please post here again that table which shows Fakhar, Awais, Khurram holding 3 of the top 4-5 spots among domestic openers in last 2-3 years, then post glimpses of Fakhar & Khurram's Test career (Awais probably won't be needed :( )
 
That's because the chief selector himself was selected in that manner so he thinks that should be the rule rather than the exception. Revolutionary sahab also forgetting that there is big difference in his eye for talent and IK's :yk




"Doesn't matter as long as my nephew continues to play" :inzi2

That's not entirely true, Inzamam himself was a consistent domestic performer from 1986-1991 until his callup.

Which makes it all the more weird why he has an aversion to giving these top domestic bats a chance :))
 
Fawad , Salahudin won’t have last more than 5 deliveries in SA
 
Why we blaming domestic cricket? Domestic cricket showed that Imam is not good enough, otherwise he wouldn't be averaging 32 in it, yet he was still selected just because he is related to Inzi. It's not the fault of domestic cricket but of the selectors.
 
That's because the chief selector himself was selected in that manner so he thinks that should be the rule rather than the exception. Revolutionary sahab also forgetting that there is big difference in his eye for talent and IK's :yk




"Doesn't matter as long as my nephew continues to play" :inzi2

Inzamam made his FC debut in 1985-86, and had played domestic FC cricket for 5-6 years when he got the ODI cap for pakistan. During this period he played close to 50 FC matches and averaged in high 40s.
 
The selectors obviously look at the players and make the decision that the players are not as good as the stats show, perhaps the selectors make their decisions based on the eye test, a reporter claimed that Mickey Arthur in UAE came to see the A team players in action and did not like the fat that Abid Ali was badly out of shape and uttered "I don't like chubby players". Lol, then why was Mickey happily playing Sharjeel Khan early on in his tenure?
 
Please post here again that table which shows Fakhar, Awais, Khurram holding 3 of the top 4-5 spots among domestic openers in last 2-3 years, then post glimpses of Fakhar & Khurram's Test career (Awais probably won't be needed :( )

Apart from Fakhar...both the other names were not given that much opportunities in test cricket so we cannot comment.

We are talking about FC not List A stats
 
The pitches are terrible in domestics but the few that do score are not even selected.
 
I understand that FC performances should not be disregarded completely but there are some definite flaws in the system such as the poor pitches and weak regional teams. That makes domestic records a somewhat unreliable indicator. Sometimes you do need an eye for talent beyond simple stats to identify good batting talent, Babar Azam has a poor FC average yet it's starting to become clear that he may be the real deal.

My issue with the selectors is that if domestic performances are unreliable then you have a level of competition that is reliable such as A-games and tour/invitation matches. These games are basically the second highest form of competition that can exist, second only to actual international matches. Shan Masood scored in these games and has been able to carry it in SA, Babar Azam scored a 100 against an almost full strength Australia in the 2014 series tour match, Haris did the same, Saad Ali scored against NZ-A and had a big hundred, Usman has consistently scored for the A-team and the same goes for Abid Ali.
 
Someone will now come here to talk rubbish about technique of Fawad who scored tons of runs with this technique,yet axed due to this lame excuse
 
Someone will now come here to talk rubbish about technique of Fawad who scored tons of runs with this technique,yet axed due to this lame excuse

Just checked Fawad's record, seems he's averaging 40+ in both tests and ODIs. Does seem to have been treated harshly.
 
Just checked Fawad's record, seems he's averaging 40+ in both tests and ODIs. Does seem to have been treated harshly.

Every selector of his era have made severe injustice to him and deprived Pakistan of his service. I am sure he would have been a legend had he a long international career.
 
It's not true that they are picking Test players from T20 - in this squad, Shan, Imam, Azhar, Yasir, Abbas never (?) played in PSL, Asad also is not considered a T20 player and had a poor PSL - in fact Hamza played in PSL and he was poor there. Babar is probably the target of most critics (from Wasim's video, I felt that), but he is truly a genuine contender for world class potential, regardless of PSL or Domestics.

Rather, I have serious issues with the players picked, despite considering FC/Domestics being substandard. It's not about T20, rather they have a full set of players to rotate from and regardless of whatever they do (or others do) in Domestics or PSL, these players won't miss out. This series, Shan seems to make it through performance (in domestics), but truth is, had Hafeez not been embarrassed by own performance (hence retired to protect his WC), Shan won't have been in SAF.

So far Ul Haq has sent 2 squads in SAF for Test & ODI - it's risky to tell about Test squad because I don't know who is genuinely unfit/fit, who faked and who scored 18.2 in YoYo bench mark, but that squad missed - a genuine opener, a middle order back-up and couple of fitter fast bowlers. May be Yasir's NZ performance forced them to consider him, otherwise Hamza could have made it.

But, that ODI squad is un-explainable - how come Saud, Amin, Umar, Amad & Leggi Irfan doesn't make the squad if we consider anything from domestics? There could be two explanations - one is AUS/WIN of that time .... so good that players like Law, Hodge, Maher, Cox, Clarke, Davies, Grey, Collis Kings, Faud Bachcuss ..... missed out their career. And, those teams weren't losing much, hence no need to change the squad - it's just that these players were unfortunate to be born in wrong time. Other explanation is IND of 2000s, or AUS of late 1970s - SRT, RD, VVS, Gambhur, Sehwag, Kumble .... or Chappells, DK, Thompson, Walters, Redpath, Hogg, Marsh, Stackpole .... played together for a decade and created a hollow - their reputation was such that, it was impossible to drop some of them for youngsters, who might have been even better than some of the stalwarts in their last leg.

But for PAK - COME ON!!!!! They are at a 1-9 run in 2018, "unceremoniously" knocked out of Asia Cup, being completely out classed by under-strength IND/BD in their adopted home, made neutral fans feel sorry for them in NZ (so, 1st explanation of AUS/WIN doesn't apply) ........ and they are denying youngsters to protect the likes of Hafeez, Malik, Imam, Sarfraz, Imad ....... as if, they are one in a generation player!!!!! I again say - COME ON!!!

I was looking through the careers of few younger players - Saud debuted in 2011, that's 7+ years back, Saad Ali in 2012, Gohar in 2013.......... how many years one needs to "mature" in domestics???
 
Not all batsmen with high first class averages will turn into a great international player. Ramprakash, Hick, WV Raman many guys have flunked at the international level despite having stellar first class record. Having said that, it should still be the criteria to select people simply because habit of scoring big is developed at the first class level. Even if you are uber talented you don't really score big unless you developed the habit as a young batsman. Because test cricket requires temperament as well. You don't master it directly at the international level without playing lot of matches.
 
Absolutely.
When you don't give chances to the deserving players and nepotism and seniority culture plays a huge role in selection of a team then you can't blame domestic cricket for not producing players. Players are there but you have to give them the chance to show their potential.
 
Fakhar averaged above 40 as a FC opener. That's a great record.

We all saw what happened in the first 2 Tests.
 
Not all batsmen with high first class averages will turn into a great international player. Ramprakash, Hick, WV Raman many guys have flunked at the international level despite having stellar first class record. Having said that, it should still be the criteria to select people simply because habit of scoring big is developed at the first class level. Even if you are uber talented you don't really score big unless you developed the habit as a young batsman. Because test cricket requires temperament as well. You don't master it directly at the international level without playing lot of matches.

The problem is that the likes of Sadaf Hussain, Abid Ali and co deserved a chance on merit because these players have topped domestic charts for a while.
 
Indeed, but to the selectors and team management "looking good in the nets" seem more important.

"Looking good in the Nets" was just an excuse by Inzamam for selecting Saad Ali over Fawad Alam. Just like "giving time to Junaid Khan so he can recover from injury" was an excuse. Junaid simply went to BPL and starting performing there.

Inzamam is quite clever went it comes to Making excuses...
However it is a real mystery Why Fawad Alam who not only performs in Domestic but performed in Internationals as well is systematically sidelined. International players like Rahul Dravid have also questioned why Pakistan does not play Fawad Alam?
Can somebody shed some light on why PCB has secretly black listed Fawad??
 
Good post here, I've always thought this. Bad domestic cricket structure is one thing, but it's the consistent performances by players in it that should get the selectors' nod to qualify for the national team (obviously taking into account players' age and long/short term goals in whatever format). In that regards Sadaf should've been given a proper chance ages ago for the piles of wickets he was getting season by season (bad pitches only suited for medium pacers or not). You'd think this is basic scouting protocol here but I guess the higher-ups just can't look beyond the Shafiqs and the Azhars when planning for the future.
 
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