How different would it have been had this been the Australian first choice team?

[slice]

Just wondering how different those two matches could have proceeded had Australia been playing whatever they call their first choice team.

Keep in mind that though the scoreline says 1-0 but the truth is they were outplayed in most of the sessions but.

In the spin department they could not have wished for anything other than Lyon and Holland,right ?Maybe OKeffe but doubt that would have made much of a difference.One might say Maxwell could have bowled but is he a test level spinner ? last time round he only bowled in one innings and went wicketless.

In the pace department they already had Starc but he proved a bit ineffective.Siddle was better but not by much really and he is supposed to be line and length kind bowler ,as far as I know.
Other pace options they had were Cummins but he is much like Starc it seems.Hazelwood might have made things tougher but I dont know.Whats your opinion on it ?

In the batting it seems fair to say they missed certain players.Warner,Smith,Maxwell for sure but do please discuss how much impact they could have had.
The Australian openers performance cant be criticized and even with Warner opening he might not have matched the performances of Finch&Khwaja and it seems unlikely that all three of them could have played in the same XI.
Maxwell is a decent enough limited overs bat for sure.In tests last time round he scored 37 & 4 in the UAE.His record in India last year is better though : 104,2,8,45

So do speculate a more realistic first choice XI of the aussies and predict how things could have turned out.

 

[Slog]

We would still have won and possibly, 2-0 if Usman Khawaja had not been playing the first test since Steve Smith was available in the middle order

However the margin for the second test win would have been narrower

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Still 1-0

Possible scenario: Margin of 373 win might be 173 and in that drawn match margin would have been draw with 5 wickets in hand.

Though haters will tell you how we would have lost both matches by 300 runs.

 

[mastersaan10]

We easily would have lost in honesty. Warner and Smith are the best players in test along with Kohli and kane. We did not play a second specialist spinner and I like Bilal but he would not have troubled either of those players. Abbas is good too but Smith and Warner are not like these novices playing across the line. Australia would have easily won 2-0.

 

[Markhor]

Don't think Australia would've rolled over with the bat quite as they did in this series, but the gap between the two teams in these conditions is demonstrable.

 

[Ab Fan]

Let me make this simple: -

You guys recently lost a legend like Younis Khan who made sure Pakistan never loses a test series atleast in UAE conditions till he was there and just when he retired, we all saw what, you just lost a test series to Sri Lanka of all teams.

Pakistan are lucky that they are facing a very weak Australia side, who themselves knew they won't win in UAE and as a result didn't even send Hazlewood or Cummins with the team and are better preparing for not losing a home series against India. It is also luck that you will be facing a very weak SA side in UAE now. Imagine this team facing SA team of 2007,2010 or even 2014. Or even England for that matter, Cook was in good touch in 2015 and it is tough to say how the current England bowlers would perform in UAE this time around. Will Anderson do well in UAE this time again?

Pakistan would have got to know the real meaning of Younis had they were required to play against strong non-Asian sides at this point of time.

 

[Bilal7]

Probably a 2:0 win to Pakistan, going by the last time Australia played their "first choice" team in the UAE. Warner would have done far worse here than Finch has given that he is a total FTB but also a certainty for the opening spot.

 

[Hasan123]

Would have been a closer series. Pakistan may have edged it but if Australia had Hazelwood and Cummins fit who knows what could have happened. We have struggled against pacers in the UAE before.

 

[barah_admi]

Australia had a better batting line up in 2014 than they have had since and were still wiped out from what I remember. Pakistan's bowling line up is worse off now, with Shah barely returning after a year out, Asif as debutant and the inexperienced Abbas...oh ans a return for Wahab then a debut for Mir.

Nothing changes how Aus loses in the UAE.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Too much being said on Hazlewood and Cummins while in reality Siddle was Aussies' best pacer and much celebrated Starc looked below ordinary. I genuinely believe Hazle and Cummins would not have made any difference.

 

[Hasan123]

John Holland isn't a test quality spinner. Okefe should have been selected. His inclusion alongside Australia key players playing would have made the series closer.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Pakistan are lucky that they are facing a very weak Australia side, who themselves knew they won't win in UAE and as a result didn't even send Hazlewood or Cummins with the team and are better preparing for not losing a home series against India.

Not true, btw what did M Starc did in this series? Was on the same level as M Marsh.

Hazle and Cummins would have struggled here big time like Starc.

 

[Hasan123]

Not true, btw what did M Starc did in this series? Was on the same level as M Marsh.

Hazle and Cummins would have struggled here big time like Starc.

Hazelwood bowls a similar line and length to Abbas plus he is taller . Not sure why you think he would struggle. Cummins has that extra pace which would have caused our batsmen problems. Not sure why you have so much confidence in our team. Maybe Pakistan would have won but the series would have been much better had those guys been playing and Australia would have competed better.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Hazelwood bowls a similar line and length to Abbas plus he is taller . Not sure why you think he would struggle. Cummins has that extra pace which would have caused our batsmen problems. Not sure why you have so much confidence in our team. Maybe Pakistan would have won but the series would have been much better had those guys been playing and Australia would have competed better.

Starc is Aus best pacer across all formats and good at reverse swing too. He struggled big time like all pacers except Abbas. Abbas was on another planet and knows the art of taking wicket on these pitches as he has done in domestic too performing all over Pakistan plus he is in the form of life. Cant compare Hazle with Abbas.

I believe one of Hazle or Cummins might have got injured that would have improved our chances winning series 2-0. Anyways both were injured so not our fault.

 

[slice]

Let me make this simple: -

You guys recently lost a legend like Younis Khan who made sure Pakistan never loses a test series atleast in UAE conditions till he was there and just when he retired, we all saw what, you just lost a test series to Sri Lanka of all teams.

Pakistan are lucky that they are facing a very weak Australia side, who themselves knew they won't win in UAE and as a result didn't even send Hazlewood or Cummins with the team and are better preparing for not losing a home series against India. It is also luck that you will be facing a very weak SA side in UAE now. Imagine this team facing SA team of 2007,2010 or even 2014. Or even England for that matter, Cook was in good touch in 2015 and it is tough to say how the current England bowlers would perform in UAE this time around. Will Anderson do well in UAE this time again?

Pakistan would have got to know the real meaning of Younis had they were required to play against strong non-Asian sides at this point of time.

You seem to have sidestepped the question of individual players.Looking over the recent India and Srilanka test series vs Australia,Starc was easily their best pacer and he didnt really perform here.
Wickets for Hazelwood in the indian innings are :1,0,0,6,1,1,0.
And against Srilanka :3,2,1,1,0,0.
So he has a good performance or two but nothing to suggest he was sorely missed this series.
On the other hand Starc, was the more effective pacer so Australia cant really complain here.
And going by that logic,Pakistan pretty much dominated this Australian side even without Misbah and Younis.Other players stood up.Hafeez,Imam,Azhar,Haris,Sarfraz,Fakahar got big ones.

Do name a more appropriate XI that the Australians could have sent.Keeping in mind that in UAE they would not go with more than two specialist pacers.And selection of Siddle turned out to be wise enough as he turned out to be their most effective pacer and the type of bowler who succeeded in UAE- a line and length bowler.

And do keep in mind that pakistans test victories in UAE were not down to younis alone.Bowlers played a big part in it and lots of other batsmen stood up.

 

[slice]

Too much being said on Hazlewood and Cummins while in reality Siddle was Aussies' best pacer and much celebrated Starc looked below ordinary. I genuinely believe Hazle and Cummins would not have made any difference.

true enough.Hazelwood was pretty ordinary in the series vs india and srilanka.Starc was the main pacer.

 

[Hasan123]

Starc is Aus best pacer across all formats and good at reverse swing too. He struggled big time like all pacers except Abbas. Abbas was on another planet and knows the art of taking wicket on these pitches as he has done in domestic too performing all over Pakistan plus he is in the form of life. Cant compare Hazle with Abbas.

I believe one of Hazle or Cummins might have got injured that would have improved our chances winning series 2-0. Anyways both were injured so not our fault.

Starc is a brilliant bowler but Hazelwood is better in tests. Also Starc bowls better when Hazelwood is playing.

Yes you can't compare Hazelwood and Abbas because Hazelwood is vastly superior.

Didn't say it's our fault. The series would have been much better had those guys played. I would rather have beat them with there full strengthen side than the side we faced.

 

[slice]

Hazelwood bowls a similar line and length to Abbas plus he is taller . Not sure why you think he would struggle. Cummins has that extra pace which would have caused our batsmen problems. Not sure why you have so much confidence in our team. Maybe Pakistan would have won but the series would have been much better had those guys been playing and Australia would have competed better.

well das cuz Starc has pace,as much if not more than cummins and starc was pretty toothless here.
ANd go check hazelwoods stats vs india and srilanka in the recent test series in asia,,,.not that impressive.Starc did them most of the damage.

 

[Hasan123]

well das cuz Starc has pace,as much if not more than cummins and starc was pretty toothless here.
ANd go check hazelwoods stats vs india and srilanka in the recent test series in asia,,,.not that impressive.Starc did them most of the damage.

Starc bowls better when Hazelwood is playing. Look at there record together.

 

[slice]

Starc bowls better when Hazelwood is playing. Look at there record together.

well perhaps Starc bowls better when I am watching the match.Otherwise he is toothless.
Man,that is hardly a reason.You could say that Starc bowls better when he has a line and length pacer to partner him and Siddle does that well enough.

 

[Savak]

We beat the first choice team in even more convincing fashion in 2014. Steve Smith would have been a challenge in these conditions but Warner's game is unsuited to the UAE. You can't win in the UAE with just a Steve Smith and no quality pacers and spinners. Abbas might have found the answer to Smith's defence and shuffling.

 

[Ab Fan]

You seem to have sidestepped the question of individual players.Looking over the recent India and Srilanka test series vs Australia,Starc was easily their best pacer and he didnt really perform here.
Wickets for Hazelwood in the indian innings are :1,0,0,6,1,1,0.
And against Srilanka :3,2,1,1,0,0.
So he has a good performance or two but nothing to suggest he was sorely missed this series.
On the other hand Starc, was the more effective pacer so Australia cant really complain here.
And going by that logic,Pakistan pretty much dominated this Australian side even without Misbah and Younis.Other players stood up.Hafeez,Imam,Azhar,Haris,Sarfraz,Fakahar got big ones.

Do name a more appropriate XI that the Australians could have sent.Keeping in mind that in UAE they would not go with more than two specialist pacers.And selection of Siddle turned out to be wise enough as he turned out to be their most effective pacer and the type of bowler who succeeded in UAE- a line and length bowler.

And do keep in mind that pakistans test victories in UAE were not down to younis alone.Bowlers played a big part in it and lots of other batsmen stood up.

You won against a strong Aus side in 2014 because of whom?

 

[Finisher]

Let's not forget In 2014 Pakistan played a bowling attack filled with newbies and Still won convincingly.

 

[The Viper]

Would have been much closer. I wouldn’t underestimate the huge impact of missing Smith.

 

[Hasan123]

well perhaps Starc bowls better when I am watching the match.Otherwise he is toothless.
Man,that is hardly a reason.You could say that Starc bowls better when he has a line and length pacer to partner him and Siddle does that well enough.

Siddle was selected for his character more than his bowling.

You can't honestly tell me a full strength Australian team wouldn't have done better than this team did.

 

[MMHS]

Not much. Without them AUS drew 1st Test & PAK lost 16 wickets; therefore don’t think any team would have won at Dubai with AUS playing best possible XI. At Abu Dhabi, gap was so much with 5 sessions left in the game.

I think, bigger difference would have been had AUS batted first even with this squad, but still I expect PAK to win at least once, both times batting 2nd.

 

[Buffet]

With first choice team, Aus would have still lost series.

It would have been more interesting with Aus batting first both times with first choice team.

 

[slice]

Siddle was selected for his character more than his bowling.

You can't honestly tell me a full strength Australian team wouldn't have done better than this team did.

Define this full strength austrlain side.
They had their best pacer Starc,best spinner Lyon.

 

[Darkrai]

Pakistan would have been humiliated. These batsmen that Abbas got out don't even count, they are minnow level-therefore they don't matter. The only 2 Aus batsmen that matter are Smith and Warner, if you take them out Aus becomes minnow-therefore this test series result doesn't matter.

 

[Syed1]

We beat their full strength team even more comprehensively last time. Stop trying to nitpick and downplay an honest victory.

 

[slice]

You won against a strong Aus side in 2014 because of whom?

Oh yes,UAEnis khan came into open the batting and with a single shot was able to score 500 runs and declare.Such was the majesty of that shot that it even shattered all the 10 austalian wickets so that when the aussies came out to bat they found that they dont have any wickets.Hence that australian team ended up suffering double innings defeat in both test matches.

Please my good man,do go through the scorecard of that test series and see that while pakistan did pile up huge scores and younis khan certainly played very well and racked up huge runs,the other players in the lineup weren't shelling peanuts.You can see big scores from Sarfraz,Misbah.Shafiq,Hafeez,Shehzad,Azhar...
and then the aussies got bowled out fairly cheaply.Nearly all the bowlers contributed,with anywhere from 1 to 5 wickets in all the innings.

 

[wrongun]

I think the same result.

We had our full team a few years ago in UAE & suffered very heavy losses for 2-0.

We saw improvement from a couple of players but we don't have a winning record in Asia to boast that it all could have been different.

We will take some small encouragement from drawing a Test but honestly with Warner & Smith around the attitude would have been more aggressive and most likely lost that Test, not batted for a draw or not until too late and spinners gifted a wicket or two had their confidence up & rhythm going.

Our pace attack (even the missing Cummins & HAzlewood) hasn't got a record of tearing teams apart in Asia really (Hazlewood has a decent record in SL only).

Logic suggests our top players would produce a better result but cricket isn't like that always, as our Asia record lately suggests. I see gradual improvement in it, but not a confidence to predict winning series.

 

[Hasan123]

Define this full strength austrlain side.
They had their best pacer Starc,best spinner Lyon.

Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
Marsh/Handscomb/Head
Labuschagne/Mitch
Paine
Lyon
Okefe
Cummins /Starc
Hazelwood

I am not downplaying our victory. I am happy that we won. We still could have beaten this team above. I am just making the point it was a weaker Australian team and I would rather have played them at full strength. Probably more due to the fact I like a lot of the players missing.

 

[theariezman]

If Pakistan would choose Muhammad Asif and imagine the pace attack with Muhammad Abbas.

If Hafeez wouldn't be judge for his bowling action he remains a threat to opponents.


all if and buts we can we come to the reality...This is what it is.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

If Pakistan would choose Muhammad Asif and imagine the pace attack with Muhammad Abbas.

If Hafeez wouldn't be judge for his bowling action he remains a threat to opponents.


all if and buts we can we come to the reality...This is what it is.

Yes well said, on same token Pakistan would have won 2-0 if we would have played Fakhar in 1st match blah blah blah.

I dont know when will the self hating stop.

 

[slice]

Yes well said, on same token Pakistan would have won 2-0 if we would have played Fakhar in 1st match blah blah blah.

I dont know when will the self hating stop.

Ye see ?
I am trying to see how would it be have been had this forum been called AusPassion
Just trynna make these posters think from an Australian standpoint after the series loss.
Yea we still suck in LOI but I think its time to accpet that Pakistan isnt such a bad team in Asian conditions.Similar blame and **** can be heaped on other teams.