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How do we neutralize Indian batting?

ManFan

ManFan

T20I Debutant
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Thoughts or any ideas? Bring in a wide slip for Kholi? Bowl sort and than full to Sharma? Hafeez for Dhawan?
 
If the bowlers fail to take early wickets then we need to bowl in a disciplined manner, Dhoni has proven multiple times that it is possible to dry up runs and the Pakistani bowling unit needs to learn that it is possible to keep runs down even if the opposition has wickets in hand.

Need to watch how the Sri lankans tied down the Indian batting line up in the last 4 overs of the T-20 WC final in 2014 with men stacked on the off side and with the wide outside the off stump yorker.
 
I just hope they don't resort to brain-dead tactics like starting with Imad Wasim.
 
Prayers.


On a serious note, Rohit is a serious dot ball machine to begin with, so if you bottle up Dhawan at the start, you'll create a lot of pressure. India's momemtum rides on Dhawan. Stop him early, you get a chance at maybe picking up VK early, and then you can pile pressure on the elder statesmen in the middle order, and the good but inexperienced lower order.

Only way to stop the Indian juggernaut is to take 2, maybe 3 early wickets. If you don't do that, then prepare to get slowly but inevitably bulldozed.
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
Forget about our batting, how will your batting stop our bowling :yk2? :srini
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:afridi1



What's the over-under on Fakhar for the Final? I'd feel comfortable betting that he's gone for less than 25. Probably more like 10 or so, but he can get lucky with a few top edges and airy shots with the field restrictions. But 25 or so is about as far as he can get in the Final I think.
 
Just take wickets. Pitch it up or bounce them. Length balls don't work.
 
IndYeah1 said:
:afridi1



What's the over-under on Fakhar for the Final? I'd feel comfortable betting that he's gone for less than 25. Probably more like 10 or so, but he can get lucky with a few top edges and airy shots with the field restrictions. But 25 or so is about as far as he can get in the Final I think.
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Getting Fakhar early would be a key for India. In all the games so far, Fakhar has given them a rapid start, so despite their usual middle order collapse against SL and SA, they were still ahead of the game. If we can get Fakhar early, that would give a significant boost.
 
Sidilicious said:
Getting Fakhar early would be a key for India. In all the games so far, Fakhar has given them a rapid start, so despite their usual middle order collapse against SL and SA, they were still ahead of the game. If we can get Fakhar early, that would give a significant boost.
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I'm not worried about Fakhar. I'm only concerned about about the 5% chance that we lose the toss, bat first, and lose 2-3 early wickets to some combination of bad luck and quality bowling. Outside of that, I'm not worried.
 
You can't, We have very little chance of beating them. Our only chance is if we let them bat first and hope they falter to under 300.
 
ManFan said:
So have Hasan use that angle or bring in Hafeez?
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Hafeez should bowl in the PP at Dhawan. At least a few overs. If he's a true patriot, he will risk the ban and "bowl" with his original action - so what if he gets banned from bowling for 2 years, he may just win Pak the CT.
 
Indians bat deep in the crease and converts your Yorkers into half collides over the years even from Karan era it is proven Indians are extremely strong when full on the stumps which is what weakness of lot of other teams against Pakistan. Only known weakness outside off stump channel. Kohl I can whip through leg even from off stump
 
Same as we've restricted three other teams. Reverse would be key. Hope conditions are not overcast but Dry to bring reverse into play.
 
Only Top 3 in Indian batting are doing all the scoring.

MSD only batted once and Yuvi only had one good outing. Jadhav was not needed at all so far. Middle order looks out of match practice.

Reduce India to 50/3 or something with all 3 (Dhawan/Rohit/Kohli) back in the hut and India may not score over 250. Then Pak can chase it as it is with in their striking distance.

Pak's bowling is lot superior than the Bangla trundlers.
 
Their batting is so strong :(..
For pak to have a chance they're going to have to bowl like they have for the last 3 matches, which I don't think will happen because of the pressure of an India match. I expect it to be a high scoring match 300+ scores.

That being said, improvements from the last showing are possible with no wahab riaz leaking runs, and if we can hold onto our catches this time then game on.
 
Guys, quit panicking.

We have a dominant bowling attack. They have a dominant batting line up. don't so quickly assume that we can't send them packing, especially if we bowl first.
 
No fear! Attack. Let them score, our dumb batsman should be capable to chase it.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Indians bat deep in the crease and converts your Yorkers into half collides over the years even from Karan era it is proven Indians are extremely strong when full on the stumps which is what weakness of lot of other teams against Pakistan. Only known weakness outside off stump channel. Kohl I can whip through leg even from off stump
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Spot on analysis actually, the only area of weakness in this batting is consistent line outside off stump, but even that is neutralized in this era of flat pitches, but yeah that's one area if bowled consistently with slips in place throughout, you can hurt the Indian batting
 
Stewie said:
Just take wickets. Pitch it up or bounce them. Length balls don't work.
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looks likeyou have not watched india's batting whole tournament. short pitch bowling has been thrashed through out the tournament.. same with full length too.. only good length balls are given respect.
 
Pakistan should forget about runs and go for wickets, that's the only way to have any chance in this match, if you guys go on defensive after 2-3 boundaries are hit, then you will play right into India's hands, you have to keep attacking till the end.
 
IndYeah1 said:
I'm not worried about Fakhar. I'm only concerned about about the 5% chance that we lose the toss, bat first, and lose 2-3 early wickets to some combination of bad luck and quality bowling. Outside of that, I'm not worried.
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Even a 40 from him could give the Pakistani MO the extra cushion.

I am not so confident of chasing either mate. Ideally, we should chase if we win the toss.
 
Take catches. India's batting doesnt scare me as much as England's. Neither does their bowling. Its all about managing pressure for Pakistan. We beat a stronger opposition in the semis. India game is all about handling the pressure for the boys.
 
The Most Important factor in defeating India is to dismiss Kohli cheaply

All the plans to work out the Yorkers of Bumrah, the Swing of Bhuvneshwar, the Nagging line By Jadeja , the mystery spin of Ashwin, the Swashbuckling pair of Rohit/Dhawan, the assault by Yuvraj, the counter-attack by Dhoni and hard hitting by Pandya should be secondary.

I think the Single Biggest factor to register a win against India is to dismiss Virat Kohli for a cheap score - this is exactly what Sri Lanka did when they dismissed Kohli for a duck which happens to be the only match in which India were defeated.

It won't matter if plans against other Indian players don't succeed because even then you could have a chance of winning the game but if Virat stays at the wicket for 20-25 overs then it's most likely game over for any opposition. He will keep playing cover drives, hooks, nudge the ball without taking any risk and keep the scoreboard ticking. It is simply impossible to put brakes on the scoring rate when Virat is on the crease who not only plays fluently but imparts confidence to his other partners and absorbs all the pressure thus even other batsmen are able to play freely.

The Wicket of Kohli will be the difference between a Pakistani win and a loss. If Pakistan manage to dismiss him cheaply, then the end target would be well within Pakistan's reach however if Kohli manages to stay at the wicket for around 20-25 overs, then the target would easily go past the reach of Pakistan's batsmen.

Equation is simple.

Dismiss Kohli cheaply and win the Tournament.
 
They're red hot favourites for mine. Need to play out of our skins again to have a chance.
 
thehub said:
looks likeyou have not watched india's batting whole tournament. short pitch bowling has been thrashed through out the tournament.. same with full length too.. only good length balls are given respect.
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Other bowlers do t have the skills we do. When you can swing the ball, pitching it up gives you the best probability of getting wickets.

It's fast bowling 101, but Indians are stuck on remedials of bowling so I can understand if you don't get the point.

Length balls are a good option for stopping runs. We don't want Indian batsmen to give respect. Make them drive, that's how you get the edges, Bowled and caught behinds.

Bowl them out. Length balls mean I want them to bat full fifty. That translates to a loss. If you have the batting to chase 350, fine! But you don't. Like I said before, it takes guts and nerves to be able to go all in in search of wickets. We will see if it happens.

Just dont bowl like u did in the group encounter and hold on to catches. Simple
 
Overrated player enjoying his time with no good bowlers around. :junaid will snap him even before he realizes it.
 
India still managed over 300 against Lanka.

If India bats first and scores over 300 (even if Kohli fails), India will easily defend it against Pak's batting unit.
 
Just bowl with same intensity and skill as in last few matches.

If Indians score big, It would be because of their quality not because of us bowling badly
 
I hope Junaid's new bowl will be seaming around and making Indian batsmen his bunnies again.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Take catches. India's batting doesnt scare me as much as England's. Neither does their bowling. Its all about managing pressure for Pakistan. We beat a stronger opposition in the semis. India game is all about handling the pressure for the boys.
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There bowling scares me more than England's
 
You need to rough them up. Mix bouncers with Yorkers and full deliveries. Bowlers need to keep it well directed. We have he bowlers with such skills.

I think they have proven they are the best in the world over the so called over hyped England, Australians and South Africans.

Hope amir turns up and runs in hard. Not the holding back sort of bowling he has been giving us lately. U need the fire in the belly
 
The key to get him out is the fifth stump line. I remember Gul also got him with that line early on during the Asia Cup.
 
troodon said:
India still managed over 300 against Lanka.

If India bats first and scores over 300 (even if Kohli fails), India will easily defend it against Pak's batting unit.
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But the problem is Pakistani bowlers will not allow a 300+ score without contribution from Kohli.

If not for Kohli's impressive innings and late order hitting last time, India could have been restricted for a cheap score of 260-270.

Pakistan can easily chase that score.
 
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People need to be realistic. Indian's are gods on flat wickets and Pakistani bowlers will mostly be neutralized on flat wickets. What the bowlers need to understand and learn is how to dry up the runs and either pressurize the opposition into throwing away their wickets or to seriously restrict them to a chasable total even if they have wickets in hand,Wickets in hand mean jack if you are bowling economically at the death.

Watch the Sri Lanka-India T-20 WC final last 4 overs of the Indian innings and see how the Sri Lankans tied down Kohli, Yuvraj and Dhoni.
 
Leeon1994 said:
I hope Junaid's new bowl will be seaming around and making Indian batsmen his bunnies again.
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Bro did you not watch the games that happened at the oval?? What swing?? There has been hardly any conventional swing upfront throughout the tournament which is such a travesty. And if you don't get through Dhawan and Rohit early you won't be able to have a crack at Kohli.
 
Kohli's scores this tournament: 81*, 0, 76*, and 52* (as of 9PM IST).
 
Stewie said:
Other bowlers do t have the skills we do. When you can swing the ball, pitching it up gives you the best probability of getting wickets.

It's fast bowling 101, but Indians are stuck on remedials of bowling so I can understand if you don't get the point.

Length balls are a good option for stopping runs. We don't want Indian batsmen to give respect. Make them drive, that's how you get the edges, Bowled and caught behinds.

Bowl them out. Length balls mean I want them to bat full fifty. That translates to a loss. If you have the batting to chase 350, fine! But you don't. Like I said before, it takes guts and nerves to be able to go all in in search of wickets. We will see if it happens.

Just dont bowl like u did in the group encounter and hold on to catches. Simple
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Brave talk. But a 'wicket-taking' length on these English pitches is liable to get caned for 350+ unless you get lucky.
 
Kohli looking as ominous as Pakistani bolwling

As an Indian fan and that cherished pakistan of 90's congratulations Pakistan on reaching the final.Pakistan bowling is at its destructive best.Kohli albeit against Bangladesh looks ominous with his fluency and balance most of all assuredness.whats your thoughts guys???
 
One thing is for certain, the only chance we have is to bowl first and to restrict India to a chaseable total.
 
I see lot of funny tactics here. They are battle hardened batsmen who can play breathtaking shots of peach of delivered. Just hope they have an off day.
 
In other news Sky is blue.

These dhawans and rohits are all supporting cast. Main guy is kohli. Always has been.
 
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The way he finds gaps in the field and plays ground shots, aerial shots in them perfectly is amazing. You can clearly see that this is a guy who puts a lot of hard work on his batting in the nets and behind the scenes.
 
I think Indian batting and Pak bowling will cancel out each other.

It depends on how Indian bowling fares against Pak's batting. This will decide the result me thinks.
 
as someone said top four

sarfraz and management will need to think about a plan an absolute ruthless attack with all pakistan team has got to tumble the four wickets at the very early stage of the match, after that i think india can be contained
 
IndYeah1 said:
Brave talk. But a 'wicket-taking' length on these English pitches is liable to get caned for 350+ unless you get lucky.
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No wrong again. If you back your skill, you get wickets that way. Bowling full of the ball swings takes the pitch out of the equation.

Once again: cricket 101.

The problem begins when the bowler and captain get frustrated if they go for runs. That's when the bouncers come in. Keep the batsmen guessing. You have to read the batsman. That's where our golden era bowlers were good. These are skills learnt with experience. This crop will get there if they play together long enough.
 
Seriously, how easy does he make the batting look . Milking boundaries, doubles and singles for fun.

Not a hint of pressure.
 
czar said:
Seriously, how easy does he make the batting look . Milking boundaries, doubles and singles for fun.

Not a hint of pressure.
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All testament to the hard work he puts off the field i.e. his fitness and work on his batting. That explains the reason why he has ended up making the most of his abilities compared to his Indian counterparts and all the Pakistani players.
 
I guess the most important thing is how we neutralize pressure of the India match, which will reflect in all departments our Batting, bowling and fielding. Thats what its going to go down too, we'll be able to see it on the players faces on the field, the kind of Pakistan that's turned up. I hope they're not overhauled and look scared out there.

But surely they must have gained some confidence from the last 3 matches and will go harder, I'm confident of a much better showing than our last match vs India.
 
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troodon said:
I think Indian batting and Pak bowling will cancel out each other.

It depends on how Indian bowling fares against Pak's batting. This will decide the result me thinks.
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NO.

The first contest will be decisive. At least it needs to be for Pak to have a chance. If the best that Pak bowling manages is a 'draw' against Indian batting, then Pak batting will succumb to the professional Indian bowling. Pak bowling needs to land killer blows like it did against England, and restrict India to below 260 to give their batsmen an outside chance. For Pak fans preferably below 230. If India put 290+ on the board, even on a flat wicket, I don't see this Pakistan batting lineup chase it down.
 
Jadhav averages 61 and panda averages 47. ignore them at your peril. Not to mention Dhoni Yuvraj
 
Bowl well and put a decent score on the board. Apart from Sri Lanka (who didnt bowl too well either, but batted well) India haven't had much of a challenge. They've faced sides which didn't bowl well or bat well. And easily outclassed them in both batting and bowling as a result.

We played awful against India last time in every way. Hope we put a fight up rather than surrender meekly, we know that our bowling attack at least can cause problems. India are the better side no doubt, they're not weak in any department, batting, bowling or fielding. But if we play to our potential, we have a chance to win.
 
Vorador said:
I just hope they don't resort to brain-dead tactics like starting with Imad Wasim.
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I think that will be key. Spinners aren't going to work against India, they've seen off far better than Shadab and Imad historically. Pick a seam heavy attack and that will at least take them out of their comfort zone.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I think that will be key. Spinners aren't going to work against India, they've seen off far better than Shadab and Imad historically. Pick a seam heavy attack and that will at least take them out of their comfort zone.
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Agreed. I'd go with Amir, Faheem, Rumman, Junaid, and Ali against India. Imad and Shadab will not only be ineffective in bowling against India, but add nothing to the team with the bat either. Amir and Faheem can provide at least that. I think the match will be decided at the toss and our team selection, both of which are likely not going to be in our favor come Sunday. What a waste.
 
Vorador said:
Agreed. I'd go with Amir, Faheem, Rumman, Junaid, and Ali against India. Imad and Shadab will not only be ineffective in bowling against India, but add nothing to the team with the bat either. Amir and Faheem can provide at least that. I think the match will be decided at the toss and our team selection, both of which are likely not going to be in our favor come Sunday. What a waste.
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Shadab is capable of contributing with the bat and was one of the few who could hold his head up high after the shellacking in Birmingham. He was unfortunate to have a catch dropped off his bowling against Yuvraj.

However I do agree opening with Imad would not be wise after the tactic failed at Edgbaston. It may have worked against Chadwick Walton and Evin Lewis in the Caribbean but Rohit Sharma and Shikhar Dhawan are a level above.
 
If India bats first your bowles should bowl tight line and length. No width on offer and no poor ones. Rest will be taken care of by India's tuk tuk machines. This still doesn't guarantee a win because our bowling also world class but there is this slight loophole in our batting.

If India bats second then only thing you can do is to pray. :))
 
To all Pakistani supporters I just am hoping for a good tight finish to this tournament. Both of our teams have done really well to get to the finals and only if your team can turn up on Sunday (ours as well but we kinda expect them to) it will truly be a visual spectacle.

Hoping for a good game!!!
 
Indian Middle/Lower middle order is not yet tested in this CT. If Pakistani bowlers can take 3-4 wickets in the first 20 overs, Indian batsmen will feel the pressure and give it away.

If India is only 3-4 down after 35 overs, it will be difficult for Pakistan.
 
Reverse swing always helps us at the Oval, but I don't know how effective will that be with the 2 new balls rule..

Remember Umar Guls 6'fer vs England here in 2010... that was when Pakistan was defending only 240 and England looked set, but that was only 1 new ball.. reverse swing will definitely be a factor in the match for us hopefully InshaAllah

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2010/engine/current/match/426430.html
 
Stewie said:
No wrong again. If you back your skill, you get wickets that way. Bowling full of the ball swings takes the pitch out of the equation.

Once again: cricket 101.

The problem begins when the bowler and captain get frustrated if they go for runs. That's when the bouncers come in. Keep the batsmen guessing. You have to read the batsman. That's where our golden era bowlers were good. These are skills learnt with experience. This crop will get there if they play together long enough.
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Your length is good length or yorker or half volley also depends on where batsman stands. That is where Indian batsmen are good at. They can convert good ball into bad ball by using the crease
 
If the wicket is not like what Pak played in the last 3 games, I don't see Pakistan bowlers stopping this Indian Batting lineup.

if India bat first, they will score over 340. if they bowl first, pak can only score at best 275. India would chase it comfortably.
 
Hope Pakistan can field full attack and all bowlers are fit. If this is done than show complete discipline give nothing for free not a single bowler for freebies. I think in such a way you can restrict best batting lineups to 270 round about.
 
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