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How do you rate the legacy of Roman Reigns? From the most hated wrestler in 2017 to being the fans favorite "Tribal Chief"?

How do you rate the legacy of Roman Reigns?

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The Bald Eagle

The Bald Eagle

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WWE tried their level best to promote the baby face Roman Reigns different gimmicks. They remained successful initially during Roman stint in Shield. Then came the "Big Dog" gimmick which flopped big time even made RR, the most booed wrestler.

And in the end from the sinister mind of Paul Heyman came the idea of "The Tribal Chief" that just changed the fortunes for him. It won't be wrong to say that almost everyone of us enjoyed the RR's heel turn.

Even now a lot of fans are feeling a bit gloomy as RR may not stick along long now. So what are your thoughts guy?
 
Wrestling would be uninteresting again for some time, If Cody plays a John Cena in 2024 then people will fed up soon. Title needs to change holders from time to time.

I am just curious how will they make Roman return and in what stories would he be involved.

I shall rate him at solid 9 out of 10 better than Daniel Bryan's, Seth Rollins and at par with Cena.
 
These new kids..... They will never understand the emotions of attitude era.

RR who?
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Wrestling would be uninteresting again for some time, If Cody plays a John Cena in 2024 then people will fed up soon. Title needs to change holders from time to time.

I am just curious how will they make Roman return and in what stories would he be involved.

I shall rate him at solid 9 out of 10 better than Daniel Bryan's, Seth Rollins and at par with Cena.
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Thing is with every promotion including WWE pushing anti heroes more and more being a generic good guy baby face is cool again.

But yes, this will be his real test now. Can he carry the show forward himself without the best heel of the last few years to help with the burden.
 
Suleiman said:
Thing is with every promotion including WWE pushing anti heroes more and more being a generic good guy baby face is cool again.

But yes, this will be his real test now. Can he carry the show forward himself without the best heel of the last few years to help with the burden.
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Yep Cody had a goal to end RR title reigns now WWE need to set new goals. CM Punk's role is going to be really important this year. I just wish Jon Moxley returns could turn things to 180° degree.
 
For years he was written off due to his mistimed push when the fans were behind other baby faces, he had to carry that monkey on his back for a long time. Vince was always right about Reigns though and with Heyman by his side, he took his career to HOF territory.

He has the greatest championship run of the 21st century, and in a set up which is already pretty established, he turned himself into a box office attraction and elevated his rivals in the process, this hasn’t been achieved to this degree over a sustained period and the records speak for themselves.
 
Right up till the pandemic, Roman Reigns was the biggest main-event misfire in WWE history. It's not that Roman didn't have the capability to be a main-eventer, its that he was being shoved down our throats and rather than being allowed to be himself. You had Vince booking him as this uninteresting white meat babyface with zero personality that somehow always happened to be in the main-event picture.

The moment Reigns decided he had enough and if WWE really wanted him it was going to be his way, its like the penny dropped and we got to see exactly what Roman was capable of.

I think Reigns has solidified himself as arguably the greatest of the modern era with this heel run. He has been at the center of one of WWE's greatest business booms, which began about a year ago with Sami Zayn and Roman. And its hard to argue against him being a major draw even in this era of WWE where the brand is seemingly regarded as 'too big to fail' and not dependent on one particular wrestler.

Creatively, he checks every box; great promos, great segments, main-event caliber matches. He has beaten just about everyone on the roster. And anyone who works with him finds themself being elevated just by being in his periphery. His character work is amazing and I'm sure he has caught the attention of numerous people in Hollywood with this mob boss-like Tribal Chief character. Above all, the storytelling has been incredible. I think a large part of Roman's success over the past four years has been the layers upon layers of character development that have been added on through his various feuds. The character has evolved considerably which has kept people interested in him throughout eventhough he has been the biggest heel in the company.

Now what I am interested to see is his next babyface run. Because I feel like the fans are already clamoring for him to turn face and will erupt when he finally does. Maybe The Rock is involved in making that happen somehow. There's definitely alot of money to be made with a feud against a heel CM Punk and Paul Heyman involved in the middle.

At this point, Roman probably has more time behind him than ahead of him so its important to appreciate everything he has done and enjoy everything he continues to do. Because this really is one of the great main-event runs that any wrestler has ever been on. I for one acknowledge my Tribal Chief.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Wrestling would be uninteresting again for some time, If Cody plays a John Cena in 2024 then people will fed up soon. Title needs to change holders from time to time.

I am just curious how will they make Roman return and in what stories would he be involved.

I shall rate him at solid 9 out of 10 better than Daniel Bryan's, Seth Rollins and at par with Cena.
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I think The Bloodline saga is far from over. All signs point to them adding two new members to The Bloodline; Tama Tonga and Jacob Fatu. But whether or not he turns face when he returns, a face turn is definitely around the corner for Roman. Rather than predicting though I am more interested to just see what they do. Which is rare for me as a wrestling fan. Usually I'm just fantasy booking everything in my mind, but this Bloodline saga has been something else. So yeah, excited to see what they do.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
My moment came in 2005 when Batista dethroned Triple H at WrestleMania 21. Nothing tops that just because of pure nostalgia reasons.
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It was like being a kid in the candy store, everybody bragged about how powerful Batista was in my school and him beating up Haitch like a dog all over the ring at WM was story telling perfection. I will never forget the scene of a battered, bloodied and bruised Haitch being carried away by Ric like a squealing pig. My favourite Triple H match.

Hunter was so traumatised by that, he had to get his W back at WM 35, he doesn't forget a good rivalry be it backstage, kayfabe or in business.
 
Ah and I LOVED that original Batista theme, him towering over Haitch with the WHC as he was being dragged away was quiet the sight to behold and a genuine WM magic moment
 
shaz619 said:
It was like being a kid in the candy store, everybody bragged about how powerful Batista was in my school and him beating up Haitch like a dog all over the ring at WM was story telling perfection. I will never forget the scene of a battered, bloodied and bruised Haitch being carried away by Ric like a squealing pig. My favourite Triple H match.

Hunter was so traumatised by that, he had to get his W back at WM 35, he doesn't forget a good rivalry be it backstage, kayfabe or in business.
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For me, that match was more about the moment. Batista finally beating HHH on the grandest stage. The best Triple H and Batista match came a few months later at Vengeance inside Hell in A Cell.

WrestleMania 21 was also one of the most clear cut instances of the fans creating a genuine money-drawing star. At the time I believe it was WWE's highest grossing PPV ever. And that was largely on the back of Triple H vs Batista. Say what you will about H but he made Batista by putting him over clean 3/3 times.

Hahah c'mon you're not being fair to Triple H here. He was not the one who came up with the idea of doing that match. Batista wanted to finish his career by losing to him.
 
Roman was hated for holding that title for too long I guess otherwise he was doing good job. His shield persona was the best one for me. This title reign got boring in the end and that Cody feud was the benchmark and perfect ending for me
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
For me, that match was more about the moment. Batista finally beating HHH on the grandest stage. The best Triple H and Batista match came a few months later at Vengeance inside Hell in A Cell.

WrestleMania 21 was also one of the most clear cut instances of the fans creating a genuine money-drawing star. At the time I believe it was WWE's highest grossing PPV ever. And that was largely on the back of Triple H vs Batista. Say what you will about H but he made Batista by putting him over clean 3/3 times.

Hahah c'mon you're not being fair to Triple H here. He was not the one who came up with the idea of doing that match. Batista wanted to finish his career by losing to him.
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Yes it was a landmark PPV for sure, Batista and Cena winning their championship matches was poignant. I can see why you’d like the HIAC match it was terrific, I prefer the WM 21 match as a package, what they achieved as you said and how Batista was taken to another level on the flagship PPV, it’s an all timer of a mania main event and they had to follow the greatest wrestling match of all time on the same card, whoever produced the match did such a terrific job, it was everything it needed to be and nothing more. Come on man, you know Vince is a big mark for a good physique, I can’t see how Hunter would veto having to put Batista over 🤣
 
BouncerGuy said:
Roman was hated for holding that title for too long I guess otherwise he was doing good job. His shield persona was the best one for me. This title reign got boring in the end and that Cody feud was the benchmark and perfect ending for me
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He was never hated as much as Cena in 06/07 for title length purposes
 
Wrestling golden period is over decades ago.
Any wrestler of today apart from Brock Lesnar doesn’t have much of a legacy.

With the rise of MMA and internet wrestling is an outdated concept.

IMO, WWE should just go back to the over the top storyline’s and non-PG madness to differentiate itself from MMA and portray as a purely entertainment show rather than hyping wrestlers with ability to wrestle.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Wrestling golden period is over decades ago.
Any wrestler of today apart from Brock Lesnar doesn’t have much of a legacy.

With the rise of MMA and internet wrestling is an outdated concept.

IMO, WWE should just go back to the over the top storyline’s and non-PG madness to differentiate itself from MMA and portray as a purely entertainment show rather than hyping wrestlers with ability to wrestle.
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Majority of the bawas who don’t watch anymore say this, but we’re in a new golden age that isn’t entirely reliant on big names or the internet
 
shaz619 said:
Yes it was a landmark PPV for sure, Batista and Cena winning their championship matches was poignant. I can see why you’d like the HIAC match it was terrific, I prefer the WM 21 match as a package, what they achieved as you said and how Batista was taken to another level on the flagship PPV, it’s an all timer of a mania main event and they had to follow the greatest wrestling match of all time on the same card, whoever produced the match did such a terrific job, it was everything it needed to be and nothing more. Come on man, you know Vince is a big mark for a good physique, I can’t see how Hunter would veto having to put Batista over 🤣
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Triple H deserves alot of credit for carrying Batista in that match. In the HIAC it was both of them doing great work but in that Mania match, I thought it was all about Triple H being the perfect heel. Most people don't like that WrestleMania 21 match but I think its pretty underrated.

Hahah well tbh, it definitely had something to do with Hunter being his friend. On a serious note, I don't think you can discount Triple H's role in making Batista a star. And this is all based on what I've read/heard from Batista himself. Batista ofcourse always had the tools but he needed someone to mentor him and guide him because of how late he got in the business. At the same time, nothing can be taken away from Batista either. Once he got there, he quickly found out how to become a main-eventer. Bad booking, injuries and prioritizing Cena over everyone else ended his wrestling career prematurely, which is a shame because he always had a real passion for the business and like Punk, didn't really care if he rubbed people the wrong way by being himself. I would have loved to see a program between him and Punk, as well as a proper WrestleMania program between him and Randy Orton that never happened. Glad to see him doing so well in Hollywood now. Out of Cena, Rock and him, I think he is easily the best and most versatile actor.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
I loved the contract signing event more than the entire match.
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Ah that build was so perfect. I'll never forget how the crowd erupted when Batista did the thumbs down and powerbombed Triple H through the table. And even before that, when they would show Triple H and Ric Flair having a private conversation about Batista not knowing what's good for him. And Batista would be standing outside the door hearing it all :ROFLMAO:

Its stuff like that about WWE that defies all logic but is also the most entertaining.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Wrestling golden period is over decades ago.
Any wrestler of today apart from Brock Lesnar doesn’t have much of a legacy.

With the rise of MMA and internet wrestling is an outdated concept.

IMO, WWE should just go back to the over the top storyline’s and non-PG madness to differentiate itself from MMA and portray as a purely entertainment show rather than hyping wrestlers with ability to wrestle.
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Just because you stopped watching decades ago doesn't mean wrestling stopped being good. Unless you're actually watching modern wrestling this is a deeply uninformed and ignorant take.

And I don't get why people keep comparing MMA to wrestling. One is a real sport, the other is not. Wrestling fans don't want to pay $50 for a main-event PPV fight, only to see the guy they are supporting get choked out in 4 minutes.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Triple H deserves alot of credit for carrying Batista in that match. In the HIAC it was both of them doing great work but in that Mania match, I thought it was all about Triple H being the perfect heel. Most people don't like that WrestleMania 21 match but I think its pretty underrated.

Hahah well tbh, it definitely had something to do with Hunter being his friend. On a serious note, I don't think you can discount Triple H's role in making Batista a star. And this is all based on what I've read/heard from Batista himself. Batista ofcourse always had the tools but he needed someone to mentor him and guide him because of how late he got in the business. At the same time, nothing can be taken away from Batista either. Once he got there, he quickly found out how to become a main-eventer. Bad booking, injuries and prioritizing Cena over everyone else ended his wrestling career prematurely, which is a shame because he always had a real passion for the business and like Punk, didn't really care if he rubbed people the wrong way by being himself. I would have loved to see a program between him and Punk, as well as a proper WrestleMania program between him and Randy Orton that never happened. Glad to see him doing so well in Hollywood now. Out of Cena, Rock and him, I think he is easily the best and most versatile actor.
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I credit the producers more because Haitch has rarely had the ring IQ, it was a simple layout really, you could give him credit for going along with it but that’s the least you expect from that piece of sh!t, yeah he did it for his buddy and Vince, plus Batista could probably have taken him out in a shoot.

Yeah it was epic storytelling something which is missing though I appreciate the effort this year. Batista’s popularity at his peak was crazy high but plummeted following his injury, he still recovered well from it though and did some excellent work towards the end of his career, almost foreshadowed his successful Hollywood run looking back. He left because WWE were creatively bankrupt under pure PG rules and he felt it limited the direction he wanted to take his character, the icing on the fake was that cage match with Jericho where one of them bladed and were all fines, it was Batista’s idea; he payed his fine which was $400k and also everyone else's fines including the producers, he always mentions how that completely killed his moral.
 
shaz619 said:
Majority of the bawas who don’t watch anymore say this, but we’re in a new golden age that isn’t entirely reliant on big names or the internet
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I watched on and off not recently but before COVID and it just felt flat and boring to me.

I get it you are still a mark but to me wrestling needs to go old school and become the edgy and over the top product it used to be without worrying about the cancel culture in the west. Then probably I will find interest in wrestling again.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Just because you stopped watching decades ago doesn't mean wrestling stopped being good. Unless you're actually watching modern wrestling this is a deeply uninformed and ignorant take.

And I don't get why people keep comparing MMA to wrestling. One is a real sport, the other is not. Wrestling fans don't want to pay $50 for a main-event PPV fight, only to see the guy they are supporting get choked out in 4 minutes.
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Creative entertainment is subjective to an individual’s liking.
You might still enjoy wrestling, however, for me it feels pretty boring and uninteresting.

For me wrestling was always about the storyline’s, edgy content and over the top characters, which is lacking today.

For you wrestling might be more about the actual ability to wrestle.

Not throwing any shade on modern wrestlers but to me the golden period of wrestling is long gone.
 
Roman's legacy got solid when he defeated Undertaker at mania. His feud with Lesner was also brilliant. Shield thing was also something Roman can be proud of.
 
big_gamer007 said:
I watched on and off not recently but before COVID and it just felt flat and boring to me.

I get it you are still a mark but to me wrestling needs to go old school and become the edgy and over the top product it used to be without worrying about the cancel culture in the west. Then probably I will find interest in wrestling again.
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You’ve missed out on a lot then, I don’t watch it religiously but up to date with it.

Over the top on which sense, the AE era was basically Vince Russo throwing sh!t at the wall and seeing what sticks, match quality and storyline logic wasn’t there but it was filled with dramatic moments.

Blame Benoit for changing the industry but they are not hardcore PG now
 
big_gamer007 said:
You might still enjoy wrestling, however, for me it feels pretty boring and uninteresting.

For me wrestling was always about the storyline’s, edgy content and over the top characters, which is lacking today.

For you wrestling might be more about the actual ability to wrestle.

Not throwing any shade on modern wrestlers but to me the golden period of wrestling is long gone.
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Not really. Good wrestling means nothing if it doesn't have good storytelling to compliment it. The 90s was a one of the greatest boom periods for wrestling, especially from a business and interest stand-point but let's not act like that era didn't have absolute garbage storylines too that appealed more to 15 year olds than mature adults. You might call it edgy but I'm sure if you went back and watched some of that stuff today you would realize it was less edgy and more embarrassing than anyone ever gave it credit for.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Just because you stopped watching decades ago doesn't mean wrestling stopped being good. Unless you're actually watching modern wrestling this is a deeply uninformed and ignorant take.

And I don't get why people keep comparing MMA to wrestling. One is a real sport, the other is not. Wrestling fans don't want to pay $50 for a main-event PPV fight, only to see the guy they are supporting get choked out in 4 minutes.
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MMA replacing wrestling is a prime example of how people accommodate themselves when things get outdated even if the products were different.

Today, wrestling is PG and it doesn't carry the same charm as it used to. So people ventured out who wanted the same thrill that wrestling had..... MMA with its rising popularity brought those viewers in.

This is why Wrestling gets compared to MMA. It doesn't make sense to you because you are failing to see why wrestling was popular in the 90s and 2000s.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Not really. Good wrestling means nothing if it doesn't have good storytelling to compliment it. The 90s was a one of the greatest boom periods for wrestling, especially from a business and interest stand-point but let's not act like that era didn't have absolute garbage storylines too that appealed more to 15 year olds than mature adults. You might call it edgy but I'm sure if you went back and watched some of that stuff today you would realize it was less edgy and more embarrassing than anyone ever gave it credit for.
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.... And if you compare those embarrassing ones to current lot, given a choice, the embarrassing ones might outshine.
 
Listen, we all wanted Roman Reigns as a heel, clearly Vinnie didn't think that & in the process shoved him down our throats which got him serious hatred among the WWE universe.

It didn't help that his post shield break, the packaged him the same from the shield, kept him around the main event picture, gave him the same theme, gave contact lenses and had him do promos when he clearly didn't the authority or aura to carry a promo.

Alongside that, main event mania back-to-back-to-back, remember WM32 & 33 anyone. Despite these occurrences, the company, in particular Vinnie didn't change course. Which consistently resulted in more & more heat towards Roman. Remember the feud with Cena in '17, he laid it all down to the world where Roman absolutely sucked & struggle. Follow up with WM 34 & received an absolute battering from the Beast which the company assumed would humble him Infront the crowds (which it didn't).

Since the heel run, he has ride all of these mistakes and become the character, persona we or I certainly didn't think he could be. Commanding the audience, destroying his opponents on the mic or the ring & oozing aura of a great & in the last 4 years has been the standard bearer.

However, 4 great years for me doesn't excuse the poorly booked & executed 6 years.
 
Itachi said:
MMA replacing wrestling is a prime example of how people accommodate themselves when things get outdated even if the products were different.

Today, wrestling is PG and it doesn't carry the same charm as it used to. So people ventured out who wanted the same thrill that wrestling had..... MMA with its rising popularity brought those viewers in.

This is why Wrestling gets compared to MMA. It doesn't make sense to you because you are failing to see why wrestling was popular in the 90s and 2000s.
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But this is generally a narrow view, majority of people who don't watch it on a reasonable level will hold this view and also tend to have a nostalgic perception of the past era's, you can't tell me Vince Russo was the greatest booker in wrestling history now?

When you say wrestling is PG, I think you're alluding to the transformation post Benoit which was necessary, when they banned chair shots to the head, got rid of blood completely, curse words and introduced the wellness policy. They are a lot more flexible now with this, chair shots to the head are rightly still banned but blood is used from time to time and they've allowed storylines to have more adult themes, for example The Bloodline Saga has included some of the best story telling this century, you talk about the PG era and during peak PG constraints we had arguably one of the greatest rivalries of all time between Michaels and Jericho. For any sceptics, this years Road To Wrestlemania has been excellent in terms of character development of Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, The Rock etc they've delivered in the ring to and in terms of the business, with the consecutive sell outs, record breaking live gates and overall revenue is through the roof.

In fact WWE have prolonged the longevity of the Netflix platform to with the ground breaking $5 billion deal, it wouldn't be possible if the business was dead, and the business would be dead if they were creatively bankrupt. And I admit there have been some dry spells but they've recovered from that and done well to cater for all fan bases which is not an easy task.

For me the peak in terms of ring action, excellent story telling and drama was the ruthless aggression era, while some of the mature themes can't be matched, in the recent past I think I've actually had the chance to experience the long term story telling narratives from that period.

MMA took the AE era fans but it's going through a rebuilding phase themselves with the lack of box office talent and lousy booking of their major cards.
 
TeymurBlake said:
Listen, we all wanted Roman Reigns as a heel, clearly Vinnie didn't think that & in the process shoved him down our throats which got him serious hatred among the WWE universe.

It didn't help that his post shield break, the packaged him the same from the shield, kept him around the main event picture, gave him the same theme, gave contact lenses and had him do promos when he clearly didn't the authority or aura to carry a promo.

Alongside that, main event mania back-to-back-to-back, remember WM32 & 33 anyone. Despite these occurrences, the company, in particular Vinnie didn't change course. Which consistently resulted in more & more heat towards Roman. Remember the feud with Cena in '17, he laid it all down to the world where Roman absolutely sucked & struggle. Follow up with WM 34 & received an absolute battering from the Beast which the company assumed would humble him Infront the crowds (which it didn't).

Since the heel run, he has ride all of these mistakes and become the character, persona we or I certainly didn't think he could be. Commanding the audience, destroying his opponents on the mic or the ring & oozing aura of a great & in the last 4 years has been the standard bearer.

However, 4 great years for me doesn't excuse the poorly booked & executed 6 years.
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In those 6 years, outside some shocking segments which were booked poorly. Reigns largely carried himself like a star and did his best to deliver for the company, he rarely was in a bad match and delivered in the ring. He had to deliver under that pressure when he didn't ask for the burden of being a champion, a lot of the negativity originated from the unfair treatment of Daniel Bryan, it was his time, if they could rewind the clocks and allowed Bryan to shine sooner, I doubt there would be as much heat on Roman who the fans use to drool over when he was in The Shield, and let's not forget that, he was a big part of one of the greatest factions of all time and that was a thrilling run in itself. Reigns needed some great dance partners to get heat on his baby face run and you saw AJ Styles deliver on that front and even Sheamus, he got heat on a Reigns win in Philly of all places, who could forget Sheamus 5:15! the crowd was behind Reigns there, unlike Triple H who shat the bed at WM 32 by working a dated style on auto-pilot. There were lows certainly on a booking front, but during the development of Roman Reigns the performer I thought he delivered as best he could.

But make no mistake, Vince was always right and he has simply taken his game to another level altogether. Some of the greatest superstars of all time built their legacies on smaller peaks with the company and I think the past 4 years for me, has just taken him to the mount rushmore of the industry's best, I say this because even though the business is less reliant on a Hogan or Cena, Reigns has managed to become a mainstream attraction and usher a new boom period for the WWE when you look at how well the business is doing now compared to 2019 and that has been on the back of his character work, the incredible Bloodline Saga and his performances in the ring which have also elevated his rivals which is rare.
 
Itachi said:
MMA replacing wrestling is a prime example of how people accommodate themselves when things get outdated even if the products were different.

Today, wrestling is PG and it doesn't carry the same charm as it used to. So people ventured out who wanted the same thrill that wrestling had..... MMA with its rising popularity brought those viewers in.

This is why Wrestling gets compared to MMA. It doesn't make sense to you because you are failing to see why wrestling was popular in the 90s and 2000s.
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Just because something is popular, doesn't mean its good. The 90s may have been the greatest period for wrestling's popularity. But there was just as much rubbish on TV back as there is now...arguably more. You may only remember Austin, Rock, Taker, DX and nWo. But there wasn't bunch of other stuff that most people would struggle to watch today, let alone be able to enjoy.

The reason wrestling was so popular in the 90s was because after WWF's cartoon era of the 80s people wanted to see something different. So when people started seeing anti-authority figures, cursing and swearing, naked women, alot more violent matches featuring weapons they thought it was cool because they had never seen something like it in wrestling before. The 90s were also a time of a pop-culture boom with the rise of the internet, grunge music, MTV, TV shows like The Simpsons....and wrestling being that kind of a product aligned perfect with what alot of people wanted to see at the time.

Yes, UFC may have taken away some wrestling fans who liked big personalities like The Rock and Stone Cold. But the decline of interest in wrestling has more to do with the rise of the internet/YouTube, streaming, shorter attention spans and people just having alot more options, rather than the rise of UFC.

Also unless you're watching modern wrestling closely, your opinion comes off as uninformed. Yes, wrestling has changed considerably since the 90s and early 2000s. But there are certain central tenets of what makes wrestling great that were true 50 years ago, and still hold true today. I don't know exactly what you mean by wrestling being PG. Because wrestling these days has blood and swearing. The only thing it doesn't have are maybe chairshots to the head and women being used only as swimsuit models. And I don't necessarily see what's wrong with that.
 
Itachi said:
.... And if you compare those embarrassing ones to current lot, given a choice, the embarrassing ones might outshine.
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If your argument is that something bad that is popular is better than something good that is maybe not seen by as many people then I can only laugh at you.
 
TeymurBlake said:
Listen, we all wanted Roman Reigns as a heel, clearly Vinnie didn't think that & in the process shoved him down our throats which got him serious hatred among the WWE universe.

It didn't help that his post shield break, the packaged him the same from the shield, kept him around the main event picture, gave him the same theme, gave contact lenses and had him do promos when he clearly didn't the authority or aura to carry a promo.

Alongside that, main event mania back-to-back-to-back, remember WM32 & 33 anyone. Despite these occurrences, the company, in particular Vinnie didn't change course. Which consistently resulted in more & more heat towards Roman. Remember the feud with Cena in '17, he laid it all down to the world where Roman absolutely sucked & struggle. Follow up with WM 34 & received an absolute battering from the Beast which the company assumed would humble him Infront the crowds (which it didn't).

Since the heel run, he has ride all of these mistakes and become the character, persona we or I certainly didn't think he could be. Commanding the audience, destroying his opponents on the mic or the ring & oozing aura of a great & in the last 4 years has been the standard bearer.

However, 4 great years for me doesn't excuse the poorly booked & executed 6 years.
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That WrestleMania 34 main-event was absolute death. I don't think I've seen a worse WrestleMania main-event.
 
shaz619 said:
I credit the producers more because Haitch has rarely had the ring IQ, it was a simple layout really, you could give him credit for going along with it but that’s the least you expect from that piece of sh!t, yeah he did it for his buddy and Vince, plus Batista could probably have taken him out in a shoot.

Yeah it was epic storytelling something which is missing though I appreciate the effort this year. Batista’s popularity at his peak was crazy high but plummeted following his injury, he still recovered well from it though and did some excellent work towards the end of his career, almost foreshadowed his successful Hollywood run looking back. He left because WWE were creatively bankrupt under pure PG rules and he felt it limited the direction he wanted to take his character, the icing on the fake was that cage match with Jericho where one of them bladed and were all fines, it was Batista’s idea; he payed his fine which was $400k and also everyone else's fines including the producers, he always mentions how that completely killed his moral.
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You're right I think it had more to do with that. And if you look at Batista past 2007, there just wasn't as much hype and interest around him as there was till '07. Personally I think the booking is to be blamed as well. But its a shame things had to turn out that way. He had alot more years on top in him.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Not really. Good wrestling means nothing if it doesn't have good storytelling to compliment it. The 90s was a one of the greatest boom periods for wrestling, especially from a business and interest stand-point but let's not act like that era didn't have absolute garbage storylines too that appealed more to 15 year olds than mature adults. You might call it edgy but I'm sure if you went back and watched some of that stuff today you would realize it was less edgy and more embarrassing than anyone ever gave it credit for.
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Even today most of content from 90s is entertaining to me. Even the Katie Vick or Snitsky kicking Lita’s baby storyline which people find offensive in 2024, were actually interesting. It’s not just the storyline’s, it’s because the characters were such engrossing that whatever they did in terms of storyline’s one enjoyed it.

The most recent example of over the top character is Wyatt family, I loved the Bray Wyatt character and the stable he had with harper, roman etc. However, WWE never let the audience feel they were an actual threat, when the real time came they lost. That’s not how you make your audience care about characters, and unless the audience cares about the characters your storyline’s will always fall flat.

The content you call embarrassing as a kid/teenager your mindset is different, mostly everyone loved it.
As an adult, you knew it’s all fake/scripted so you should watch it like entertainment and not actually be all woke about it.

Also, I feel as humans once you have seen the absolute best in something, you will always have a comparison back of your mind and the newer content will struggle to compete.

It’s not just with wrestling it’s the same with other sports, NBA for example a lot of people always say it’s not the same as 90s or 2000s. Similarly for cricket people say it’s not the same as 80s, 90s or 2000s.
The era you grow up with you have watched it all, and unless the newer era doesn’t bring anything new or exciting enough for you to forget about your era, nostalgia will always play the biggest factor in ratings.
 
shaz619 said:
You’ve missed out on a lot then, I don’t watch it religiously but up to date with it.

Over the top on which sense, the AE era was basically Vince Russo throwing sh!t at the wall and seeing what sticks, match quality and storyline logic wasn’t there but it was filled with dramatic moments.

Blame Benoit for changing the industry but they are not hardcore PG now
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Even before Russo, characters in cartoon era carried the show and I find them much more enjoyable than today’s wrestling.
Not talking about the big ones like hogan, savage, warrior etc but the mid carders like akeem, barbarian, the pig brothers etc were also fun to watch as a kid. And can still be watchable just due to nostalgia alone.

I did enjoy AEW, they had some great characters and storyline’s. However, as a TV audience my experience of AEW wasn’t as good as WWF because they lacked the production quality and crowd just wasn’t as big as during WWF times apart from some massive PPVs.

I haven’t watched AEW as well now for few years so not sure how they are doing now.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Even before Russo, characters in cartoon era carried the show and I find them much more enjoyable than today’s wrestling.
Not talking about the big ones like hogan, savage, warrior etc but the mid carders like akeem, barbarian, the pig brothers etc were also fun to watch as a kid. And can still be watchable just due to nostalgia alone.

I did enjoy AEW, they had some great characters and storyline’s. However, as a TV audience my experience of AEW wasn’t as good as WWF because they lacked the production quality and crowd just wasn’t as big as during WWF times apart from some massive PPVs.

I haven’t watched AEW as well now for few years so not sure how they are doing now.
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They were great characters I’d give you that, now we got guys like Gunther a modern day Killer Kowolski in the mid card! and also LA Knight - a hybrid of The Rock and Austin in personality, that’s the mid card now, and oh Sami Zayn a Mankind type ‘underground’ underdog

And AEW is a cancerous place, it got nothing on peak TNA. It was only good while CM Punk was there, who shone a light on the talent of MJF
 
big_gamer007 said:
Even today most of content from 90s is entertaining to me. Even the Katie Vick or Snitsky kicking Lita’s baby storyline which people find offensive in 2024, were actually interesting. It’s not just the storyline’s, it’s because the characters were such engrossing that whatever they did in terms of storyline’s one enjoyed it.

The most recent example of over the top character is Wyatt family, I loved the Bray Wyatt character and the stable he had with harper, roman etc. However, WWE never let the audience feel they were an actual threat, when the real time came they lost. That’s not how you make your audience care about characters, and unless the audience cares about the characters your storyline’s will always fall flat.

The content you call embarrassing as a kid/teenager your mindset is different, mostly everyone loved it.
As an adult, you knew it’s all fake/scripted so you should watch it like entertainment and not actually be all woke about it.

Also, I feel as humans once you have seen the absolute best in something, you will always have a comparison back of your mind and the newer content will struggle to compete.

It’s not just with wrestling it’s the same with other sports, NBA for example a lot of people always say it’s not the same as 90s or 2000s. Similarly for cricket people say it’s not the same as 80s, 90s or 2000s.
The era you grow up with you have watched it all, and unless the newer era doesn’t bring anything new or exciting enough for you to forget about your era, nostalgia will always play the biggest factor in ratings.
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I guess there really is no accounting for taste these days.

To be clear, you thought that an angle about necrophilia was entertaining? Because that was something that people were repulsed by even back then.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I guess there really is no accounting for taste these days.

To be clear, you thought that an angle about necrophilia was entertaining? Because that was something that people were repulsed by even back then.
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RedwoodOriginal said:
I guess there really is no accounting for taste these days.

To be clear, you thought that an angle about necrophilia was entertaining? Because that was something that people were repulsed by even back then.
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My god, I can’t believe I have to explain such basic things to people.

Even as teenagers we all knew wrestling was fake/scripted. There was one scene in the entire storyline which was objectionable, when HHH went down on the dummy.
Everyone knows it’s a dummy and not a real dead person.

Only the smarks or today’s woke babies take everything in wrestling as literal. It’s a work of fiction, no need to take it in literal sense.

Kane and HHH were both strong characters at that time, so then feuding made sense.
 
big_gamer007 said:
My god, I can’t believe I have to explain such basic things to people.

Even as teenagers we all knew wrestling was fake/scripted. There was one scene in the entire storyline which was objectionable, when HHH went down on the dummy.
Everyone knows it’s a dummy and not a real dead person.

Only the smarks or today’s woke babies take everything in wrestling as literal. It’s a work of fiction, no need to take it in literal sense.

Kane and HHH were both strong characters at that time, so then feuding made sense.
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I dunno mate. I think you have to be pretty twisted to find something like that funny or entertaining...even as a teenager. It's just gross and disgusting and crosses a line. It takes you out of it, which is exactly the opposite of the purpose it should serve. Btw, you think everyone watching it that was as repulsed by it as I was, didn't know it was fake?

It came directly from the mind of Vince McMahon, which does not surprise me at all. It was done at a real funeral home while a wake was going on on the other side of a thin wall, and Bruce Prichard and Triple H reportedly had a fight with McMahon over doing/airing that angle because they simply did not want to be involved in that garbage.

The Human Centipede and A Serbian Film are works of fiction too. Doesn't make them any less disgusting and repulsive.

I know this kind of s**t was seen as edgy and cool by some such as yourself back then. But I thought it was repulsive from the moment I saw it. And its garbage like this that has destroyed wrestling's reputation over the years from the days when it was presented as a sport and focused on two men fighting about believable issues.
 
big_gamer007 said:
My god, I can’t believe I have to explain such basic things to people.

Even as teenagers we all knew wrestling was fake/scripted. There was one scene in the entire storyline which was objectionable, when HHH went down on the dummy.
Everyone knows it’s a dummy and not a real dead person.

Only the smarks or today’s woke babies take everything in wrestling as literal. It’s a work of fiction, no need to take it in literal sense.

Kane and HHH were both strong characters at that time, so then feuding made sense.
Click to expand...
Also, I think I would take being a mark over being someone who finds anything to do with necrophilia funny or entertaining.
 
A big role in Roman's unreal heel transformation was his Tribal chief background theme song.
 
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