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How great was Muttiah Muralitharan outside Sri Lanka?

KP From India

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Jun 30, 2017
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The top 3 difficult places to tour in Murali's time (1994-2009) were Aus, Ind and Sa.
Although Murali's stats are good in Sa, his record is flat in Aus and Ind. More interestingly, Sl never won a single test match in these countries in the presense of Murali.
In Eng and Nz, his numbers are phenomenon.But lets be honest, Eng were crap at playing spin bar Thorpe and Nz were just about average. He won a few matches there, but not as if Sl whitewashed them.
Your thoughts?
 
For what was a 1 and half man bowling attack through most of his playing career, Murali had a brilliant record.

If he had two really good pacers by his side touring Australia, he would have needed up with a respectable average. We saw what happened to Ashwin when he finally got the pace bowling support he wanted, from 2018-9 onwards he has averaged in mid 20s as compared to 40s or 50s he was averaging earlier.

Murali's record in India I agree is a bummer but Indians are masters at playing spin generally.

Shane Warne is the truly hyper overrated spinner the world has seen when he was basically cocooned by ATG pace bowlers.
 
Unless he wasn't throwing outside Sri Lanka, I don't think detailed scrutiny of his record matters that much.
 
Murali dominated SA, Eng and NZ in their backyard, that's phenomenal. I can't recall any test bowler doing it.

Some bowlers average 30-33 in those countries by taking few wickets here and there and maintaining decent average.

Some bowlers do take a lot of wickets in those countries but in the process they hurt their averages.

Murali was an altogether another level beast who took them at a very low average. He absolutely dominated SEN in SEN by taking a number of 5-fers and without leaking much runs too.

But all these things count for nothing if you are throwing although it can be said that he was extraordinary in that. Those records are legendary.
 
Even warne averages 45 in india similar to murli. Thus it was austrailia only where warne was way better than murli. Look up warnes record and you will find he average 40 in westindies so that evens up the comparison between the two. Also i read in an article somewhere that although during most of his carrer murli did chuckle it was only due to the laws in place at the time which would even make wasim akram as a chucker. If murli was to play with the laws in place today his action would be completely fine.
 
Bhatta bowler. He would not have survived when the ICC changed their rules in 2014 and the excuses of an accident, birth defect would not have been accepted by the ICC
 
Then why do we blame Kumble, Ashwin, Herath etc. outside Asia?
I am not expecting Murali to win a series outside Sl but not a single win in Ind, Aus and Sa?
 
He got three tenfers in six matches in England.

Surrey CCC stupidly served him up a Bunsen and he took fifteen wickets on it.
 
Then why do we blame Kumble, Ashwin, Herath etc. outside Asia?
I am not expecting Murali to win a series outside Sl but not a single win in Ind, Aus and Sa?

Murali was a one man army.

Check Vaas stats outside Asia. Not as good in SL.

He was a force of nature.
 
Murali dominated SA, Eng and NZ in their backyard, that's phenomenal. I can't recall any test bowler doing it.

Some bowlers average 30-33 in those countries by taking few wickets here and there and maintaining decent average.

Some bowlers do take a lot of wickets in those countries but in the process they hurt their averages.

Murali was an altogether another level beast who took them at a very low average. He absolutely dominated SEN in SEN by taking a number of 5-fers and without leaking much runs too.

But all these things count for nothing if you are throwing although it can be said that he was extraordinary in that. Those records are legendary.

Exactly.

And a lot of people claim he was throwing cos others said he was throwing.

Murali's arm didn't bend & extend in 90s from what I have seen (by slowing down videos). I will change my mind if someone can supply proof.

Post 2000...there may be some doubts with doosra. This too I am not 100% sure (have to check more closely).
 
Exactly.

And a lot of people claim he was throwing cos others said he was throwing.

Murali's arm didn't bend & extend in 90s from what I have seen (by slowing down videos). I will change my mind if someone can supply proof.

Post 2000...there may be some doubts with doosra. This too I am not 100% sure (have to check more closely).

Muralis arm did bend and extend he bowled his normal deliveries with a steel plating in testing which were fine however the doosra was always delivered with a 14 degree bend in his arm., However studies conducted in England and australia in the 90s and early 00s found almost every bowler was bending and extending to some degree, even players like Mcgrath who had a smooth action on the naked eye.

Therefore the 15 degree flex rule came into play, to compensate for this, if Murali is being called a chucker then i think we need to look at most bowlers records post this 15 degree rule coming into play because most were chucking.
 
Exactly.

And a lot of people claim he was throwing cos others said he was throwing.

Murali's arm didn't bend & extend in 90s from what I have seen (by slowing down videos). I will change my mind if someone can supply proof.

Post 2000...there may be some doubts with doosra. This too I am not 100% sure (have to check more closely).

The 15° rule was made just to accommodate him i believe. Without the bend, he wouldnt have been able to get the turn and fizz which he got even on the most docile pitches. You cannot be a wrist spinner offie unless you are bending. Doosra accentuates it a bit more.
 
An outright blatant chucker who would not have survived a single day in today's time.
 
Muralis arm did bend and extend he bowled his normal deliveries with a steel plating in testing which were fine however the doosra was always delivered with a 14 degree bend in his arm., However studies conducted in England and australia in the 90s and early 00s found almost every bowler was bending and extending to some degree, even players like Mcgrath who had a smooth action on the naked eye.

Therefore the 15 degree flex rule came into play, to compensate for this, if Murali is being called a chucker then i think we need to look at most bowlers records post this 15 degree rule coming into play because most were chucking.

No, that's a misconception.

The old rule was 5 degrees for spinners and 10 degrees for fast bowlers, what they found was that most spinners were breaching that 5 degree limit, as it was quite improbable for any bowler to not straighten the arm to such a low degree. Whereas, there were a few fast bowlers that were above the 10 degree limit too. Murali, of course, was hovering around the 14 degrees level.

The ICC, in their wisdom to make the problem disappear, introduced a blanket rule of 15 degrees so that no bowler was found to be chucking.
 
I am surprised why doesn't he get fielding coach job, considering how good he was in throw downs.
 
Then why do we blame Kumble, Ashwin, Herath etc. outside Asia?
I am not expecting Murali to win a series outside Sl but not a single win in Ind, Aus and Sa?
You can't blame finger spinners for poor performance if they lack support from pace bowlers in SENA countries. Despite this, Murali has performed exceptionally in England and decently in NZ and SA. That is tribute to his genius.

His record in India will of course be the rare blemish in his career, but he was up against some of the all time greatest players against spin on these tours.
 
If you have no problem with Murali's action then there is absolutely nothing that can go against him.
He is GOAT. I will take him ahead of Warne anyday in any format.
On par with Marshall
 
used to throw the ball. Cant consider him a great, atleast after the 2014 rules.

I would hd supoorted him if the rules were same for everyone. Ajmal got banned. Thus, if we cant support ajmal than why support some other chucker.
 
You can't blame finger spinners for poor performance if they lack support from pace bowlers in SENA countries. Despite this, Murali has performed exceptionally in England and decently in NZ and SA. That is tribute to his genius.

His record in India will of course be the rare blemish in his career, but he was up against some of the all time greatest players against spin on these tours.

Murali wasn't a finger spinner.

He was a wrist spinner who bowled off spin.

Dude had rubber wrists which could rotate I am told.
 
The 15° rule was made just to accommodate him i believe. Without the bend, he wouldnt have been able to get the turn and fizz which he got even on the most docile pitches. You cannot be a wrist spinner offie unless you are bending. Doosra accentuates it a bit more.

He had magical wrists buddy.

You can post a video where the bend is clear and I will change my opinion.

90s Murali was clean IMHO.

2000s Murali I dunno.
 
He had magical wrists buddy.

You can post a video where the bend is clear and I will change my opinion.

90s Murali was clean IMHO.

2000s Murali I dunno.

Bend and extension.

His arms are always bent.

Saqlain too had bent arms.

But they don't extend during release unlike regular chuckers.
 
Murali apparently has a birth deformation that renders a permanent 15% bend of his elbow. He showed it during an interview.

How did he fare against Pakistan, the other good players of spin?
 
Hey may have been chucking under the old rules but he might have actually made it within the 15 degree rule s his shoulder rotation and wrists were extremely abnormal. On slow mo, you dont see much elbow flexion actually as SIF said earlier.
 
Murali writing for ICC:


The most exciting thing about the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup 2021 is that there are no clear favourites.

Coming into the competition in the United Arab Emirates and Oman, it feels like there is no standout side and as a result, any one of a large number of teams could end up lifting the trophy.

The crucial factor will be the first six overs. That is what teams need to focus on, whether they are batting or bowling. I think that 70 to 80 per cent of the game depends on those first six overs and the result comes down to how well you do in that period.

People will look at the latter overs and, of course they are important too, but if you don’t get it right at the start, there is so little time to catch up. It’s not like a one-day game or a Test match, everything comes down to getting a good start. That is part of the reason that I think the World Cup is wide open.

I’m obviously delighted to see the importance that spinners have taken on in T20 cricket. It is a fast game and is meant to be a batter’s game, but the bowlers have adapted in the 18 years since the format first started in England. Fast bowlers are bowling slow balls and cutters and different balls. Those are the skills you have to develop.

Initially, most people thought that the spinners would be the victims of T20 cricket and that the batters would go after them. But it is clear now that the slower you bowl, the more difficult it is to hit. The spinners have become the most important bowlers and even the quicks now have to bowl slower balls and other deliveries because you want to avoid the ball coming onto the bat as much as possible. The objective is to force the batter to put the effort in to hit the ball and take the risks as a result.

My experience, both as a player and a coach or mentor in T20 cricket, was that you have to approach it with a defensive mindset, whereas in ODIs or Tests, the aim is to take wickets. Defending is attacking in T20 in my mind, you need to aim to go for 6 or 6.5 runs an over and if you can manage that, you will probably take a couple of wickets as well.

Sometimes in T20, if you’re bowling as a spinner, the Test length is not the right length. A good length will go for six, so you have to see what the batter is doing and bowl fuller or wider or sometimes very short. Sometimes it’s aiming for the body. You have to vary it depending on the conditions. You need to have the control and if you can do that, you will be very successful.

I have been out in the UAE for the IPL and looking at the wickets, it is clear that the spinners are going to have a huge role to play in the World Cup. It will depend a lot on how the curators have prepared the wickets, but it looks like the spinners will be key as the batters were finding it hard to connect and it made for some low scoring.

From a Sri Lankan perspective, the team will have to go through qualifying in the first round. The team has gone down in the last five or six years and it’s the first time in our history that it has happened to us.

Frankly speaking, we were not good enough, and have not played good enough cricket which is why we are in this position. But the team has capable players who can reach the Super 12s and have an impact, but first they have to qualify.

The spinners are very good, whereas the batting is a little bit weaker, but if they can step up and manage decent totals, then the bowlers can defend them. If they make it through, I think they will upset a few teams.

My advice to the Sri Lankan players and everyone at the World Cup would be not to overthink it, particularly the bowlers. Don’t focus on the names and the players you are going up against. You have to try not to worry about the pressure and just enjoy it. That is what T20 cricket is all about.
 
Happy Birthday to the magician

==
Born: April 17, 1972 (age 51 years), Kandy, Sri Lanka
 
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