How is Yasir Shah supposed to get 7 Aussie left-handers out?

[Junaids]

We all know that Yasir Shah and Mohammad Amir are the two class acts in the Pakistan attack.

(People will laugh at the Amir comment, but if the Pakistan slip cordon took the same percentage of catching opportunities as every other team, he would be averaging 26 since his comeback rather than 37.)

But all of a sudden there is a massive problem for Yasir Shah.

Australia suddenly has 7 left-handers in their batting line-up, with five of them in the Top Seven of the batting order.

Literally the only two right-handers in the top eight of the batting order are Steve Smith and Peter Handscomb. And nobody else at all in the Top Eight!

How, precisely, is Yasir Shah supposed to dismiss these left-handers?
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] and I have disagreed at times about Yasir Sha's modus operandi. I have argued that he is a uniquely DRS-era style leg-spinner, who relies upon his accuracy and getting right-handed batsmen LBW. He has no googly, no flipper and relies upon a range of top-spinning leg-breaks bowled with terrific accuracy. Which works quite well against right-handers.

But he can't do that to left-handers. He turns the ball in towards them from outside their off-stump - he hardly has a googly/wrong'un at all - and so the ball invariably pitches outside their off-stump and hits them outside the line, so they can't be given out LBW unless they play no stroke.

Which is how Pakistan ended up with Iftikhar Ahmed dismissing Jimmy Anderson to finish off England's second innings at The Oval, after Yasir kept rapping Broad and Anderson on the pads to no avail.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Mohammad Nawaz has any more chance of getting Aussie left-handers out. He turns the ball in the wrong direction too.

But I struggle to see how Yasir Shah is meant to remove them.

And I never forget how Abdul Qadir did in Australia in 1983-84, the last time Australia had anything like as many left-handers.

The legendary leg-spinner had the following return in Australia:

1317 balls
12 wickets for 732 runs
Average 61.00
Strike Rate 109.7

 

[Hasan123]

Could catch them playing across the line but may pitch outside leg stump. I think he may need to bowl around the wicket for a majority of the time vs left handers

 

[Big Mac]

Which is how Pakistan ended up with Iftikhar Ahmed dismissing Jimmy Anderson to finish off England's second innings at The Oval, after Yasir kept rapping Broad and Anderson on the pads to no avail.

Jimmy Anderson is a better player of spin than the Aussie middle order so we'll be fine.

 

[Buffet]

And I never forget how Abdul Qadir did in Australia in 1983-84, the last time Australia had anything like as many left-handers.

The legendary leg-spinner had the following return in Australia:

1317 balls
12 wickets for 732 runs
Average 61.00
Strike Rate 109.7

He had career away average of around 50 at SR of around 100. You are making this point about him having bad series in Aus due to left handers, but he was poor outside of Pakistan to start with. You need to pick some better example.

 

[hitthestump]

The last off-spinner to represent Pakistan was Iftikhar lol. In any case in Aus we'll be playing 3 pacers and a leggie so not sure what Inzi was supposed to do.

Yasir will just have to go around the wicket.

 

[Junaids]

Could catch them playing across the line but may pitch outside leg stump. I think he may need to bowl around the wicket for a majority of the time vs left handers

Shane Warne - who also didn't have a googly - used to make a point of bowling very wide outside the left-hander's off-stump and wait for them to edge to slip a ball which didn't turn back in.

But with your slips, that wouldn't achieve much!

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Yasir bowls better to left handers.

 

[Junaids]

The last off-spinner to represent Pakistan was Iftikhar lol. In any case in Aus we'll be playing 3 pacers and a leggie so not sure what Inzi was supposed to do.

Yasir will just have to go around the wicket.

How does that work?

You don't adapt your strategy and selection according to the opposition?

You are at risk of having an army of bowlers bringing the ball into 5 left-handed batsmen and being picked off onto the leg-side.

I don't have much time for Iftikhar and I don't have much time for off-spin in Australia. (Although I note that their spinner is an offie).

But when the opposition consists almost entirely of left-handers, you either pick an off-spinner or you pick a batsman who can bowl off-spin.

 

[aloo paratha]

Yasir bowls really well to left handers.

 

[kingusama92]

Yasir's overall numbers are also pretty balanced in terms of averages against right- and left-hand batsmen. He averages 28.42 against right-handers and 25.90 against the lefties.

A little excerpt from Cricinfo last month.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Ok I was listening to The Unplayable Podcast YESTERDAY !! They had Adam Zampa on as a guest though - A top bloke I might add and they played a small fun quiz with him, live over the Radio.

The last question on the Quiz was actually how many left handed scalps has Yasir Shah had in his test career.

The Answer was 50 wickets out of a tally of 116. What does this stat show ??

43.10 % of his overall wickets have been left handers. while if my memory serves me correctly the guy actually averages better against Left Handers than Right Handed ones

Plus The oppositions he's played against since his debut in the UAE tour of Australia in 2014

Australia (UAE)
New Zealand (UAE)
Sri lanka (SL)
England (UAE)
England (ENG)
WI (UAE)

Out of these six oppositions I can safely say that the worst guys to play spin against Yasir would be the Aussies themselves.

Also if a guy who has played against Eng, NZ, SL and WI and still manages to average 23-26 for lefties then I guess it should be a cause of concern for the Australian team rather than for Yasir on how he's gonna get wickets.

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to be bullish here but clearly this thread is underselling Yasir's ability as a spinner !!

 

[hur rizvi]

Amir class act?

 

[anindo]

Keep the Aussie batsmen scoreless and they will themselves find ways to get out.

 

[KyoOne]

There are ZERO decent offies in the domestic circle. Hafeez is short of match practice. Malik's bowling has regressed over the years and he's retired.

Babar Azam may be an option, but it doesnt matter. Yasir can still run through the opposition if he gets a sniff

 

[Hasan123]

Shane Warne - who also didn't have a googly - used to make a point of bowling very wide outside the left-hander's off-stump and wait for them to edge to slip a ball which didn't turn back in.

But with your slips, that wouldn't achieve much!

Younis isn't that bad at slips, he's taken some good catches recently. Babar is also a good fielder. But dropping catches is a Pakistani gene so doesn't matter who is at slip the easier slip catches can get dropped when Pakistan are fielding

 

[Mamoon]

Bowl dry and Australian batsman will self-destruct.

Skill wise, I would put the Australian batsman are extremely good but when it comes to patience and temperament, they are awful.

Unfortunately we won't be able to bowl dry because of Wahab, Rahat and Sohail.

Yasir is our only hope in the bowling department because although Amir is economical, his impact is zero.

However, as we saw in England and in New Zealand, Yasir is no good overseas unless he gets some assistance.

 

[Ahson8]

Yasir Shah has a better average vs left handers than right handed batsmen.



He has also bowled some beauties to left handed batsmen.

 

[Justcrazy]

He has to do well if he wants to be remembered as world class.

You need to lift yourself in such situation. That is what separates good from great players, and average from good ones.

 

[Indiafan]

Sachin and Lara are two batsmen who were troubled more by ball spinning in than away. Sachin struggled against Murali while he pwned Warne. Lara struggled against Warne.

If you are a good enough bowler you can get any style of batsman out

 

[street cricketer]

Yasir will have a better series in Australia. New Zealand is traditionally the graveyard for spinners and the green tracks nullified the spinners. Australia will have more bounce and wrist spinners usually enjoy Australia more than finger spinners who generally have a torrid time in Australia. So I'm not sure if bringing a sub par offie will make any difference.

The Australian batsmen as it is are weak against spin (including the likes of Warner, Khawaja). The rookie batsmen will only find it even more difficult to deal with a quality spinner. Yasir might struggle a bit at Brisbane but he should enjoy Melbourne and Sydney.

 

[Syed1]

Poor Yasir. Once again the weight of getting 20 wickets rests on his shoulders. Can't expect anything from the pacers specially Rahat and Imran.

 

[MMHS]

We all know that Yasir Shah and Mohammad Amir are the two class acts in the Pakistan attack.

(People will laugh at the Amir comment, but if the Pakistan slip cordon took the same percentage of catching opportunities as every other team, he would be averaging 26 since his comeback rather than 37.)

But all of a sudden there is a massive problem for Yasir Shah.

Australia suddenly has 7 left-handers in their batting line-up, with five of them in the Top Seven of the batting order.

Literally the only two right-handers in the top eight of the batting order are Steve Smith and Peter Handscomb. And nobody else at all in the Top Eight!

How, precisely, is Yasir Shah supposed to dismiss these left-handers?

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] and I have disagreed at times about Yasir Sha's modus operandi. I have argued that he is a uniquely DRS-era style leg-spinner, who relies upon his accuracy and getting right-handed batsmen LBW. He has no googly, no flipper and relies upon a range of top-spinning leg-breaks bowled with terrific accuracy. Which works quite well against right-handers.

But he can't do that to left-handers. He turns the ball in towards them from outside their off-stump - he hardly has a googly/wrong'un at all - and so the ball invariably pitches outside their off-stump and hits them outside the line, so they can't be given out LBW unless they play no stroke.

Which is how Pakistan ended up with Iftikhar Ahmed dismissing Jimmy Anderson to finish off England's second innings at The Oval, after Yasir kept rapping Broad and Anderson on the pads to no avail.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Mohammad Nawaz has any more chance of getting Aussie left-handers out. He turns the ball in the wrong direction too.

But I struggle to see how Yasir Shah is meant to remove them.

And I never forget how Abdul Qadir did in Australia in 1983-84, the last time Australia had anything like as many left-handers.

The legendary leg-spinner had the following return in Australia:

1317 balls
12 wickets for 732 runs
Average 61.00
Strike Rate 109.7

I can't agree boss -

First, your theory of left-hander with Qadir doesn't bother me much because for him, the issue wasn't left-hander; rather the issue was spin playing capacity of Wessels, Phillips, Yellop, Border, Marsh & Mathews - you are comparing apple with palms - for a side note, David "Monster" Warner averages 25 in India, in 8 innings; has 1 innings of 50+ after 14 in IND & SRL & if I take out that 144 in UAE on Day 2 of an UAE Test - his average is around 25 after 17 innings - that's the standard for Yasir; which, I must say, a little bit different than bowling at Allen Robert Border & Graem Yellop.............

Second thing, is, you probably haven't noticed Yasir's success rate against spinners (neither I, but my hunch is around 35%, one out of 3). Now, Left hander batsmen are out numbered by right handers more than 1:3; hence I guess, he is doing actually better against lefties that right-handers. But, I have to check numbers - don't have the time now

Third - as I said earlier, DRS has nothing to do with his LBWs. It's not that Umpires gave not-out & he got bucket full of reversals. May be 1 or 2 LBWs I can recall which were given over-rulling field umpires. On contrary, similar numbers were denied actually, when batsmen was given on inside edge or pad-only catch; so it evens out - nothing in it (DRS) extra for Yasir

Fourth - this is the technical aspect. Apart from turn & variations, you are categorically by passing 3 critical weapons for Yasir, which actually is giving him the wickets more than anything else - his drift, his accuracy & his stamina. Accuracy one is easily explainable, because we play in T20 era - couple of maidens can get you a Test wicket - probably more applicable for Jackie Chan style batting that Aussies try against spin. But, the other 2 are critical factor that separates him from Qadir - Abdul Qadir with his fitness, won't have lasted half the distance of a match in this era if he had to match Yasir's overs under Misbah - his economy would have gone to double. Yasir is getting lots of wickets for his drift in air, which actually normalizes his lack of spin - in fact, I am sure he can turn big (any leggi can on turners, even our Sabbir was turning outside off from leg line); but that can cost his accuracy, WHICH MISBAH WILL NEVER ALLOW. Imagine his 1st Test against AUS with Warner hitting around - he took 2 wickets in his first 5/6 overs, but at 4.5 economy; Misbah took him off till AUS was 7 or 8 down & in total he bowled 15/16 overs out of 100 or so. Bottom line is - he is bowling exactly how his Captain is asking him to do - I can assure you that, this same Yasir Shah would have turned miles with every variation tried, had there been another Niazi in charge.


Boss - give up. You'll never win as long as you are trying to prove that Nawaz or MoHa are better spin option than Yasir in AUS for that 10/12 extra runs they might score. I am a South Asian - learned, watched, enjoyed my cricket with 2 spinners bowling in tandem with a 3-3-3 (close catching, inner circle & boundary) field placing - you are an Englishman, trying to be PAK's Fan .................. and trying to explain me Leg-spin

Reached office - will discuss later.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Just two disagreements.

I am arguing for Hafeez as a fifth bowler in addition to Yasir, not instead of.

And when I say DRS LBW bowler, I mean that before DRS most umpires just never gave anyone out LBW to spinners.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Just two disagreements.

I am arguing for Hafeez as a fifth bowler in addition to Yasir, not instead of.

And when I say DRS LBW bowler, I mean that before DRS most umpires just never gave anyone out LBW to spinners.

The 1st part is perfect boss - I am with you, as long as MoHa is remotely close to what he was with his "old" action.

For the 2nd part - I can't agree boss; history tells different. I had a detailed post on this, won't waste time to search that; but if I take 5 Leggis in recent times with 4 playing entire career without DRS - here are their LBW %

Warne 19.5% (708)
Qadir 22.0% (236)
Mushtaq 21.1% (185)
Kumble 25.2% (619)
Yasir 19.8% (116).

This is after Yasir playing majority of Tests on those UAE wickets, which are pathetic for any bowler, particularly Leggis, without any bounce & pace on it. Same goes against Warne - playing over 50% Tests in AUS, still he was actually higher in % than Yasir, before the last WI Series.

Another foot note is - Yasir's % of Bowled also should be higher (need to recheck, but I am sure I saw something like that), partially because of the wickets on which he has bowled most & partially for the bowling style (& batting capacity of those he bowled against).

Is there anything that suggests, Umpires didn't give LBW when DRS wasn't there? I have taken out finger spinners from this equation, because of irrelevance.

 

[hitthestump]

We've just spent 5 years trying to get Hafeez out of the team lol. Anyway he isn't a test match level offie so we lose more with his batting by dropping one of Aslam/Azhar than we do with his bowling for sure.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

He doesn't need to. If he can dismiss Smith and Handscomb(quality player of spin), he'll have done his job.

 

[Major]

We all know that Yasir Shah and Mohammad Amir are the two class acts in the Pakistan attack.

(People will laugh at the Amir comment, but if the Pakistan slip cordon took the same percentage of catching opportunities as every other team, he would be averaging 26 since his comeback rather than 37.)

please donnot make such assumptions. yes we understand you are a fan of amir and would even go on to say how he is the innocent one and how the fake sheikh mazhar is the guilty party.

but dont assume avgs.

you cannot alter the past. because we don't know that if amira catches were held then we could also assume that the wickets that amir actually did took end up scoring more. or the new batsmen that came after the drop catxhes wicmets scored more runs.

the lgoic is flawed but so is the logic of assuming wickets

 

[Barragan]

Believe or not, but he is better against lefties.

He gets through his action much better and much more "explosive", when he goes around the wicket.

 

[Indiafan]

(People will laugh at the Amir comment, but if the Pakistan slip cordon took the same percentage of catching opportunities as every other team, he would be averaging 26 since his comeback rather than 37.) -

This is hilarious. Your assumption is - Cook was dropped twice and then Amir got Cook. That counts for 3 wickets for Amir. Raval was dropped. He took a single and then the other batsman got out. you are assuming the single would have been taken even if Raval had got out

Amir's biggest problem is, he is swinging only for 2-4 overs. Almost all of his catches dropped were in these overs. After that he is gun-barrel straight and does nothing with the old ball. Then he waits for the next new ball. No bowler is going to average below 33 with these kind of skills

 

[Pete Rose]

he just needs to bowl straight. Australia batsmen cannot play non-spin.

or spin.

 

[itsme]

Yasir is very good against lefties and it will be easier against thoses backfoot lefties.