IAF chief says India's Mi-17 chopper shot down in Kashmir by its own missile in Feb [Update #39]

[Strike!]

An investigation into the cause of the IAF Mi17V5 chopper crash that took place in Budgam on 27 February – which is looking into all possible angles – is also considering friendly fire, The Economic Times reported, quoting sources.



The IAF Mi17V5 helicopter had crashed near Jammu and Kashmir’s Srinagar on the same day as the aerial dogfight between the IAF and the Pakistan Air Force.



A defence source told The Economic Timesthat all possible angles would be probed with regard to the crash, including that of friendly fire, keeping in mind the fact that air defence systems near Srinagar were in operation at the time.



At the time of the crash, senior officials had said that the crash had taken place after the chopper developed a technical snag. The Mi17V5 is one of the sturdiest choppers in service across the world and does not usually develop technical snags, the report said.



Moreover, a source told The Economic Times that ground operators had not received any radio call or message from the crew of the chopper regarding a technical fault.



Pakistan has also denied playing a role in the chopper’s crash, despite accepting that an aerial battle had taken place over Nowshera and acknowledging that they had downed an Indian fighter jet at the time.





Eyewitnesses had reportedly heard a loud explosion in the air just before the chopper went down, indicating the possibility of some external event causing the crash, reported The Economic Times.



According to the report, both command and control systems were functioning under extreme pressure at the time as a ‘fog of war’ prevailed.



IAF has said that it is too early to comment on the crash, but had ordered a court of inquiry into the incident. “A court of inquiry has been ordered and we cannot speculate on the reason behind the crash before it submits its report,” an IAF officer said.



Six IAF officers onboard the Mi17V5 chopper were killed, as well as one civilian on the ground. According to ET’s source, the families of those killed in the crash have been promised answers within ten to 15 days.



The Indian air defence systems, mostly controlled by the IAF, have inbuilt safeguards to identify and distinguish between friend and foe. If indeed the cause of the crash is found to be friendly fire, this would mean breach in multiple layers of safeguards, according to the report.

https://www.thequint.com/news/india...ry-probing-all-angles-including-friendly-fire

 

[shaaik]

Will the report be made public?

 

[KingKhanWC]

When you cant hit the enemy, down your own aircraft to look good.

 

[cric_man]

It will interesting to know if the officers other than the flight crew were also pilots and if they belonged to SU30 or Mirage2000 squadron

 

[pillionrider]

So Manu Pubby talked about this and the BJP and their fans desperately tried to stick some AgustaWestland allegations on him despite him having pretty much broken the original story about possible irregularities.

Now Ajai Shukla confirms that we shot one of our own and what's worse, confidently alleges that the Government has been putting off the details and findings of the IAF inquiry for after the elections.

So now some pathetic charge to be brought against Retd Col. and top journo, Ajai Shukla?

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has been told to keep on hold the findings of a “court of inquiry” (CoI) that has conclusively determined that an IAF Mi-17V5 helicopter was shot down by an Indian missile battery that was guarding Srinagar air base.

A senior helicopter pilot, of the rank of air commodore, heads the CoI.

Six IAF personnel and a civilian on the ground died in that “friendly fire” incident on February 27. Top IAF sources say the incident happened after officers from the ground missile battery misidentified the IAF chopper as a Pakistani aircraft on a mission to attack Srinagar.

The disaster took place the day after IAF fighters had struck a Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) terrorist camp in Pakistan to retaliate against a JeM suicide bomb attack 12 days earlier, which killed over 40 Indian troopers in Pulwama, near Srinagar.

The CoI has found that, with IAF and army units across Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) in a state of hair-trigger alert against expected Pakistani retaliation, two crucial omissions led to the missile battery opening fire and downing their own helicopter.

First, to guard against misidentification of aircraft in the prevailing state of alert, all IAF aircraft coming in to land in Srinagar were required to approach the air base only through a designated air corridor. Ground missile units would know that the aircraft approaching through the narrow “funnel” was a friendly aircraft.

For reasons that remain unclear, the Mi-17V5 helicopter was not in the safe corridor as it approached from the direction of Budgam, to the south of Srinagar. The ground missile units assumed the radar track they picked was that of a hostile aircraft.

Second, IAF aircraft are equipped with an electronic device called an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system, which beams out a coded signal that identifies the aircraft as a friendly one to all IAF radars and IFF receivers. The IFF system is required to be switched on, especially in a situation where ground missile units are on high alert.

For reasons that remain unclear, the CoI has found that the ill-fated helicopter’s IFF system was not switched on that day.

IAF officers say they are keen to serve justice quickly and make an example of those found guilty of operational lapses. However, they are held back by a “go-slow” order from above.

They say the reason is: With the Balakot bombing and the Pakistani response, including the alleged shooting down of a Pakistani F-16 fighter, being painted in election campaigning as a major Indian victory, admitting the loss of a helicopter and seven personnel due to friendly fire would present a bleaker picture.

On February 27, the downing of the helicopter was obscured by the media attention on the downing of an IAF MiG-21 Bison fighter and the capture of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman.

The IAF has declined to comment, stating: “The CoI is still in progress”. Asked specifically about the delay in finalising the findings of the CoI, the IAF said: “The time line of any CoI cannot be predicted.”

It is learned that the missile that was fired was an Israeli short-range surface to air missile (SR-SAM), which can engage incoming targets at ranges out to 20 kilometres. While engaging targets at those ranges, there is no scope for visual identification. Aircraft are merely a blip on a radar.

The incoming helicopter was engaged with the permission of the Base Air Defence Officer at Srinagar, who was required to satisfy himself that targets being engaged were indeed hostile.

 

[Pete Rose]

Yaar F16 shoot down claims came pretty quickly from Karan Johar script writing school, so why does it take so long to verify a helicopter crash on your own territory.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So Manu Pubby talked about this and the BJP and their fans desperately tried to stick some AgustaWestland allegations on him despite him having pretty much broken the original story about possible irregularities.

Now Ajai Shukla confirms that we shot one of our own and what's worse, confidently alleges that the Government has been putting off the details and findings of the IAF inquiry for after the elections.

So now some pathetic charge to be brought against Retd Col. and top journo, Ajai Shukla?

The IAF denied this. Thats enough to tell that Shukla is lying. Just read the IAF tweeter handle.

Unless you are saying that the entire IAF is lying and only Shukla is saying the truth.

 

[pillionrider]

The IAF denied this. Thats enough to tell that Shukla is lying. Just read the IAF tweeter handle.

Unless you are saying that the entire IAF is lying and only Shukla is saying the truth.

Denied what? All they said was:

"CoI of aircraft accidents are meticulous & time consuming. All past inquiries of aircraft accidents bear testimony to this. Proceedings of a CoI are not commented upon by IAF till completion of the inquiry in all cases.There is no connection between elections & completion of CoI."

They haven't denied that we took down one of our own.

So basically we nowadays have a growing number of liars incensed at Modiji's effective brilliance. Doesn't matter that these liars have proven track records.

Everyone's lying.

Truth is, we all know who the biggest liar is.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Denied what? All they said was:

"CoI of aircraft accidents are meticulous & time consuming. All past inquiries of aircraft accidents bear testimony to this. Proceedings of a CoI are not commented upon by IAF till completion of the inquiry in all cases.There is no connection between elections & completion of CoI."

They haven't denied that we took down one of our own.

So basically we nowadays have a growing number of liars incensed at Modiji's effective brilliance. Doesn't matter that these liars have proven track records.

Everyone's lying.

Truth is, we all know who the biggest liar is.

Shukla alleged that results of the CoI are nkt being published or kept on hold. IAF denied it.

"Today in an article written by Ajai Shukla he has incorrectly speculated that the IAF Court of Inquiry constituted to investigate the Mi-17 V5 crash at Srinagar on 27 Feb has been put on hold. This is his imagination and IAF categorically denies this.1/2"

 

[pillionrider]

Shukla alleged that results of the CoI are nkt being published or kept on hold. IAF denied it.

"Today in an article written by Ajai Shukla he has incorrectly speculated that the IAF Court of Inquiry constituted to investigate the Mi-17 V5 crash at Srinagar on 27 Feb has been put on hold. This is his imagination and IAF categorically denies this.1/2"

And yet, nowhere do they refute the Manu Pubby article and Shukla's allegations of friendly fire.

 

[Abdullah719]

Black box of IAF Mi-17 that crashed in Kashmir 27 Feb missing, villagers may have stolen it

New Delhi: The black box of the Mi-17 V-5 helicopter that crashed in Budgam on 27 February, while the Indian and Pakistani air forces were locked in a dogfight 100 km away, is missing, a top Indian Air Force (IAF) source told ThePrint.

Six IAF personnel and a civilian were killed in the crash.

The black box is a crucial piece of evidence in any investigation into crashes as it stores communication and other information recorded during the flight.

Top IAF officers told ThePrint that the black box had been missing since the day of the crash itself. It is feared that the black box of the Mi-17 V-5 was stolen by one of the people who gathered at the site after the helicopter crashed.

“When our teams reached the spot, there were too many civilians all around who had a field run,” said one IAF officer.

“After the immediate retrieval of bodies, the IAF team focussed on collecting items that would be needed for the inquiry. Somebody from the crowd had taken off with the flight data recorder,” the officer told ThePrint.

With the flight data recorder missing, the Court of Inquiry investigating the crash is said to be relying on witness statements and technical analysis of other components of the helicopter.

According to the IAF officer, technical members of the Court of Inquiry are in Bengaluru with the helicopter’s components for investigation by the National Aerospace Laboratories.

IAF sources told ThePrint that the Court of Inquiry was at a very “crucial stage”, adding that statements of a number of witnesses, including IAF personnel, had been recorded.

“We have an idea about how the incident has taken place. But the Court of Inquiry will look into all issues with a fine comb before fixing responsibility,” the officer said.

“Rest assured, the IAF will not shy away from taking severe action in this case,” the officer quoted above said.


Victim of friendly fire?
There has been immense speculation since the day of the crash about the circumstances that led to it.

ThePrint had reported last month about suspicions that the chopper was brought down by friendly fire, that is, a weapon fired by Indian forces.

Preliminary findings of the Court of Inquiry also suggest the same. The helicopter took off and crashed within the same 10-minute window when the air skirmish was underway 100 km away. At the time, the region’s airbases and military installations were on hair-trigger alert, following reports of Pakistan Air Force planes flying into Indian territory.

Sources say that a Spyder short-range surface-to-air missile was fired.

The helicopter crash was the third within days involving IAF aircraft. The IAF is already in the process of finishing a Court of Inquiry into the Mirage 2000 crash that killed two personnel on 1 February, while another is investigating the midair collision of two Hawk jet trainers during Aero India rehearsals that killed one pilot on 19 February.

https://theprint.in/defence/black-b...-missing-villagers-may-have-stolen-it/228536/

 

[cric_man]

How convenient. A villager knows exactly what to steal from the burning wreckage.

 

[Adijazz1706]

IAF is giving laughable excuses )

 

[Realromeo]

LOL what? Pathetic. Airforce and Navy were the only reputable forces lol. Hopefully Navy is still intact lol. Losers.

 

[cric_man]

Indian navy tends to leave its hatches open

 

[Madplayer]

Kashmiris have nothing better to do than stealing a black box which is pretty much useless to them. And how on earth did villagers know what to steal from the site? Lol

 

[Khan12]

Idiots will defend this too.

 

[cric_man]

Kashmiris have nothing better to do than stealing a black box which is pretty much useless to them. And how on earth did villagers know what to steal from the site? Lol

Yup.... And black box ain't black lol

 

[Realromeo]

Air Force needs an overhaul. If anything it needs upgrade, just throw the old flying tractors and buy more toys. Ideally I prefer the funding goes to healthcare but if we re going to war monger, it is better not to shoot ourselves or crash our own planes.

 

[pillionrider]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] Satisfied now?

The Indian Air Force's inquiry into the accidental shoot down of its own Mi-17 chopper on February 27 will be over within 20 days. The summary of evidence will be presented immediately afterwards and those responsible for the death of 6 IAF personnel onboard the chopper and a civilian on the ground may be charged with culpable homicide not amounting to murder as specified by military law under the Air Force Act 1950.
Sources in the Indian Air Force have told NDTV that there was never any doubt on the outcome of the launch of an Israeli-made SPYDER surface-to-air missile on February 27 from the Srinagar air base. The investigation has taken time because the IAF is determined to apportion blame for this incident.

IAF sources have indicated to NDTV that the entire shoot-down sequence from the moment the missile was launched to the moment of impact lasted approximately 12 seconds. The Mi-17 helicopter had no means of knowing it was under attack.

NDTV has also learned of the likely sequence of events which resulted in an incorrect decision to launch the surface-to-air missile.

Between 10 and 10:30 am on the morning of February 27, eight Indian Air Force fighters were vectored to intercept upto 24 Pakistan Air Force fighters including a group of F-16s which crossed the Line of Control and fired weapons in the direction of Indian Army positions along the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir.

With an active air battle raging on the West, air defences across Kashmir were on the highest state of alert with surface-to-air missile units on alert and ready to engage any Pakistani aircraft which made an incursion.

It was at this same time that air defence radars at Srinagar airport picked up a low flying aircraft on their screens. The senior officer manning the post of Terminal Weapons Director (TWD) at the time was likely the Chief Operations Officer of the Air Base.

This officer may have given the final order to fire after the helicopter, designated a slow flying target, could not be identified through a critical system called the Identification, Friend or Foe (IFF) transponder.

IFF systems onboard an aircraft listen for an ''interrogation signal'' from the ground and then respond with a unique signal which identifies it as a ''friendly.'' The system is specifically designed to ensure that friendly-fire incidents are avoided during the heat of battle. It is unclear if the IAF helicopter's IFF was switched off or was not functioning at the time when it was shot down.

Sources have indicated to NDTV that a series of additional steps may not have been followed in the moments prior to the launch of the Spyder surface-to-air missile. The role of the Indian Air Force's Air Traffic Control at Srinagar airbase is also being looked at very closely by the Court of Inquiry. ATC maintains a flight plan of all aircraft that have taken off or are expected at the air base.

It is unclear whether the Terminal Weapons Director inquired and was told by the ATC that no friendly aircraft were flying in the area. It is equally unclear why details of the movement of the Mi-17 helicopter were not available with the officer in the first place.

Moments later, the order to launch was passed on to the SPYDER surface-to-air missile unit. Described as a short and medium range mobile air defence system, the system is among the newest and most advanced in the Indian Air Force's arsenal. The single missile which was launched would have quickly accelerated to Mach 4, four times the speed of sound as it sped to its target. Destruction of the slow flying helicopter, was almost guaranteed.

Senior IAF officers have denied reports that the Court of Inquiry is considering video of the shoot down of the Mi-17. According to sources, video showing the missile streaking towards the helicopter exists and is a part of the body of evidence which has been presented. 'The helicopter was 6-7 kilometres away. There is no way that a camera was present to zoom into the point of impact at that range'' say senior IAF officers.

Source: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...-its-own-chopper-2040762?pfrom=home-topscroll

 

[the Great Khan]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] Satisfied now?



Source: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...-its-own-chopper-2040762?pfrom=home-topscroll

I dont believe a word of that..misinformation from the IAF..

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCH | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Exclusive?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Exclusive</a 12 seconds after launch, IAF missile destroyed its own chopper <a href="https://t.co/2GDK7MqJdP">https://t.co/2GDK7MqJdP</a> <a href="https://t.co/PFVr79LKIp">pic.twitter.com/PFVr79LKIp</a></p>— NDTV (@ndtv) <a href="https://twitter.com/ndtv/status/1130852166732722176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 21, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Abdullah719]

IAF officer set to face criminal case for missile that downed Mi-17 chopper

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has removed the Air Officer Commanding (AOC) Srinagar Air Base, the senior-most officer of the base, for circumstances related to the crash of an Mi-17 helicopter near Srinagar on February 27 after it came under friendly fire, even as a Court-of-Inquiry (CoI) continues to investigate the matter.

A final report is yet to be submitted.

An IAF spokesperson declined comment on the matter.

On February 27, even as Indian and Pakistani jets were engaged in a dogfight in the Nowshera sector, a Russian-made Mi-17 helicopter of IAF crashed. All six airmen on board the helicopter were killed. The helicopter was downed by a surface-to-air missile of IAF which mistook the aircraft to be hostile, initial inquiries have revealed.

As the inquiry nears completion, IAF is considering whether or not it should slap criminal charges against those found lacking. “There will be no tolerance of lapses,” said a senior defence ministry official who asked not to be named. Culpable homicide not amounting to murder is one of the charges that IAF is contemplating pressing against those found guilty by the CoI. “Unprecedented as it might be, IAF leadership is clear that such lapses are not repeated,” the official added.

The AOC has been removed because the incident happened on his watch.

The preliminary inquiry into the accident has allegedly indicated several lapses leading to the tragic accident. For instance, the air traffic control called the helicopter back even as air engagement between Indian and Pakistani fighters intensified. “Ideally, the helicopter should have been sent away to safer zone instead of it being called back to the base,” said a second senior defence ministry official who did not want to be named. “The incoming helicopter should have been vectored into the pre-designated zone meant for friendly aircraft to hold till the alert was called off,” the official added.

All bases have designated airspace for friendly aircraft in case of an air-defence-alert. “Air defence platforms such as missile systems, air defence guns etc. are kept free; they are free to engage any aircraft which doesn’t identify itself as a “friendly” either through the IFF or by remaining confined to the airspace designated for friendly aircraft,” the second senior officer added.

In this case, the Identification of Friend or Foe (IFF) – a transponder-based identification system that informs the air defence radars whether incoming aircraft is friendly – was switched off, against the laid down protocol.

After a “near-air-miss” incident in Jammu and Kashmir in 2018 between a C-130 J, a US-made transport aircraft, and a Russian-made Su-30 fighter aircraft, IAF Headquarters directed all aircraft coming into land to have their IFF systems on. Surprisingly, the Srinagar Air Base had issued contradictory orders. “Had the IFF system been on, air defence radars would have at least identified Helicopter as a friendly aircraft,” the second senior defence ministry official said.

The Mi-17 helicopter — one of the sturdiest in its category — under the command of squadron leader Siddarth Vashistha took off from Srinagar airbase at about 10 am. The air intrusion alert was sounded almost at the same time as Indian fighters took on Pakistani Air Force fighters over Nowshera. The helicopter crashed around 10.10am over Budgam.

In addition to the six IAF personnel, a civilian was killed on the ground.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...y-fire-case/story-3oK8lQdQucGo3mmHnUBazO.html

 

[Stewie]

So in summary, in the aftermath of the pulwama attack when tensions were high, and Pakistani incursion into Indian airspace occurred, the Indians thought the chopper was an enemy aircraft and took it down without verifying it was their own? So it was a case of friendly fire?

Did I get this right?

 

[Pete Rose]

So in summary, in the aftermath of the pulwama attack when tensions were high, and Pakistani incursion into Indian airspace occurred, the Indians thought the chopper was an enemy aircraft and took it down without verifying it was their own? So it was a case of friendly fire?

Did I get this right?

There's more to from a Pakistani perspective. The boys were jamming their signals in the combat zone. Either way, because elections were underway in India, they had to keep this stuff hushed.
India's historians will not look kindly at this entire episode where their armed forces also became inevitably politicized.

 

[WebGuru]

Hats off to PAF/ISPR for being honest they always claimed we had nothing to do with Mi-17 crash instead of taking the credit for this as well.

 

[Stewie]

I do t think they could take credit.. didn’t this happen way way away from the LOC?

Either way, it’s made our neighbors look utterly incompetent. We didn’t even cause as many enemy casualties as they inflicted upon themselves!

 

[Pakistanian]

I do t think they could take credit.. didn’t this happen way way away from the LOC?

Either way, it’s made our neighbors look utterly incompetent. We didn’t even cause as many enemy casualties as they inflicted upon themselves!

They can take credit because India panicked. It's like in sports if the opponent does something stupid cause you made them nervous.

 

[Slim]

They can take credit because India panicked. It's like in sports if the opponent does something stupid cause you made them nervous.

No need to take credit for the loss of 7 human lives. Its tragic.

 

[Realromeo]

If this had happened with Pakistan, we would have claimed our Para Commandos infiltrated Pakistan, took control of Air defense system after wiping out 5000 Pak soldiers and used it to shoot down their aircraft.

 

[King-Misbah]

If this had happened with Pakistan, we would have claimed our Para Commandos infiltrated Pakistan, took control of Air defense system after wiping out 5000 Pak soldiers and used it to shoot down their aircraft.

Have you ever considered a career as a fiction writer?

 

[King-Misbah]

No need to take credit for the loss of 7 human lives. Its tragic.

Same humans who kill, torture and rape Kashmiris.

 

[Khanusman1]

What an incompetent bunch

 

[Realromeo]

Have you ever considered a career as a fiction writer?

Too much competition from our news outlets and media. They are also dozen times better than me.

 

[King-Misbah]

Too much competition from our news outlets and media. They are also dozen times better than me.

I think your up there with GEO News

 

[MP2011]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] Satisfied now?



Source: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...-its-own-chopper-2040762?pfrom=home-topscroll

Articles from NDTV don't matter as NDTV is anti national.

 

[161]

Also a MIG 21 and MIG 27 "crashed" during same time period and an IAF officer committed suicide.

Suspicious ...

 

[WebGuru]

The IAF denied this. Thats enough to tell that Shukla is lying. Just read the IAF tweeter handle.

Unless you are saying that the entire IAF is lying and only Shukla is saying the truth.

IAF still denying this?

#TalkAboutSellingStroies
[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: "Big mistake' Indian Air Force chief says Mi-17 chopper in Jammu & Kashmir shot down by its own missile in February <a href="https://t.co/0M3f8HtmAN">https://t.co/0M3f8HtmAN</a></p>— Gulf News (@gulf_news) <a href="https://twitter.com/gulf_news/status/1180034039073378305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: "Big mistake' Indian Air Force chief says Mi-17 chopper in Jammu & Kashmir shot down by its own missile in February <a href="https://t.co/0M3f8HtmAN">https://t.co/0M3f8HtmAN</a></p>— Gulf News (@gulf_news) <a href="https://twitter.com/gulf_news/status/1180034039073378305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So, let me get this straight:

IAF prepares for a "surgical strike"; shoots some random trees; gets their plane(s)/pilot taken down and to put icing on the cake shoots their own Mi-17 chopper (a massive 21m wingspan transport helicopter)

IAF Chief on Mi-17 chopper crash in Srinagar on Feb 27: Court of Inquiry completed & it was our mistake as our missile had hit our own chopper. We will take action against two officers. We accept this was our big mistake and we will ensure such mistakes are not repeated in future

 

[Bilal_103]

The IAF denied this. Thats enough to tell that Shukla is lying. Just read the IAF tweeter handle.

Unless you are saying that the entire IAF is lying and only Shukla is saying the truth.

So could there be a chance the IAF lied?

 

[DRsohail]

MashaALLAH professional in telling lies.........

 

[King-Misbah]

MashaALLAH professional in telling lies.........

Where is Joshila? Is he going to comment? He was very active in this thread earlier.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan won the February conflict. India lost 6 soldiers and Pakistan didn't lose anyone.

 

[Rana]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: "Big mistake' Indian Air Force chief says Mi-17 chopper in Jammu & Kashmir shot down by its own missile in February <a href="https://t.co/0M3f8HtmAN">https://t.co/0M3f8HtmAN</a></p>— Gulf News (@gulf_news) <a href="https://twitter.com/gulf_news/status/1180034039073378305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We might get a movie on this starring Sunny Deol, Ajay Devgan, Sunil Shetty, Anil Kapoor, Akshay Khanna and Jacky Shcroff.

 

[Professor]

This from Telegrpah India’s article about the news

The friendly fire happened when Pakistani planes raided Indian territory a day after Delhi had launched an air strike on Balakot

https://www.telegraphindia.com/amp/...ays-iaf/cid/1709828?__twitter_impression=true

I am confused I thought Indian posters claimed that PAF never entered Indian territory? Why is Telegraph lying? Is Telegraph India on Pakistan’s payroll?

 

[Professor]

Hats off to PAF/ISPR for being honest they always claimed we had nothing to do with Mi-17 crash instead of taking the credit for this as well.

True they could have easily claimed this and most would believe them. But good for them for sticking to the facts when the other side was claiming crazy stuff like killing 300 militants lol.

 

[kk1992]

And then there were Knee high khaki chaddi wearing running around yelling at people to believe IAF, fascist PM and their army because that’s what they said so.

These people are such a waste of time.

 

[Bilal_103]

The IAF denied this. Thats enough to tell that Shukla is lying. Just read the IAF tweeter handle.

Unless you are saying that the entire IAF is lying and only Shukla is saying the truth.

Come out Joshila and own up to the fact Indian airforce lied.

 

[sjahmed23]

This is huge news surprised not a single Indian news outlet is talking about it. I wish Imran Khan had mentioned this in his UN address since Pakistan had been saying this from the beginning.

 

[blackanhyellow]

IAF was thoroughly embarrassed in February.

Their only accomplishment was crossing the loc.

Other than that here is the sequence of events:

IAF under the cover of night bombed some trees.

Then Pakistan retaliated in broad daylight, crossed the loc, bombed their intended target

This lured IAF into a dog fight.

IAF lost two planes and got a pilot captured, in the meanwhile killed 6 of their own with friendly fire downing a helicopter.

Then India lied saying they killed 300 people.

India lied that Pakistan used F16s.

IAF denied they shot their own helicopter down.

When pakistan gave their pilot back, BJP claimed it was because Pakitan was scared.

All international media, satellite images confirmed pakistans narrative that india did no damage to the building they said they hit.

However India will make a Bollywood movie, emit the helicopter disaster, and try to double down on lies.

 

[kk1992]

This is huge news surprised not a single Indian news outlet is talking about it. I wish Imran Khan had mentioned this in his UN address since Pakistan had been saying this from the beginning.

I do not think it is.

Anyone who can pull up his chaddi knew that Indian government was lying from the get go about this miss guided adventure to help one and only one man to get re-elected.

 

[Professor]

Come out Joshila and own up to the fact Indian airforce lied.

I am curious to see how [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] spins this or is he actually going to admit that IAF hid this for political reasons?

 

[Mesozoic]

It took 48 days for Mr. Asif Ghafoor to take the int'l media to the Madarsa site where IAF supposedly bombed "some trees".

Not implying anything but just stating a random fact that my Pakistani brothers manage to completely ignore willingly or unwillingly.

 

[MenInG]

IAF was thoroughly embarrassed in February.

Their only accomplishment was crossing the loc.

Other than that here is the sequence of events:

IAF under the cover of night bombed some trees.

Then Pakistan retaliated in broad daylight, crossed the loc, bombed their intended target

This lured IAF into a dog fight.

IAF lost two planes and got a pilot captured, in the meanwhile killed 6 of their own with friendly fire downing a helicopter.

Then India lied saying they killed 300 people.

India lied that Pakistan used F16s.

IAF denied they shot their own helicopter down.

When pakistan gave their pilot back, BJP claimed it was because Pakitan was scared.

All international media, satellite images confirmed pakistans narrative that india did no damage to the building they said they hit.

However India will make a Bollywood movie, emit the helicopter disaster, and try to double down on lies.

Takes time for these things to sink in I suppose.

Problem in India is that Bollywood is so strong that unless someone makes a movie out of it, complete with dance and songs sequences, nothing will ever be believed.

 

[daytrader]

So, let me get this straight:

IAF prepares for a "surgical strike"; shoots some random trees; gets their plane(s)/pilot taken down and to put icing on the cake shoots their own Mi-17 chopper (a massive 21m wingspan transport helicopter)

7 families weep because of IAF incompetence. If they can't protect their own soldiers, what are the chances they can keep nuclear weapons safe and out of wrong hands

 

[daytrader]

It took 48 days for Mr. Asif Ghafoor to take the int'l media to the Madarsa site where IAF supposedly bombed "some trees".

Not implying anything but just stating a random fact that my Pakistani brothers manage to completely ignore willingly or unwillingly.

Indian media was invited the same day they claimed the atrack

 

[Mesozoic]

Indian media was invited the same day they claimed the atrack

But it took 48 days to show the same spot to neutral media. I wonder why ?

 

[daytrader]

But it took 48 days to show the same spot to neutral media. I wonder why ?

What are you talking about? Did you follow the actual events or are you going by bollywood reports. International agencies such as Reuters, New York Times and ASPI all verified satellite imagery with before and after pics. As far as international media physically landing in Balakot, there was a small nuisance of air space being closed due to war cloud that was hanging over both countries.

To put timeliness in perspective, it's been 70 years since UN has been able to step foot in Indian Occupied Kashmir. 48 days is miniscule compared to that

 

[Mesozoic]

What are you talking about? Did you follow the actual events or are you going by bollywood reports. International agencies such as Reuters, New York Times and ASPI all verified satellite imagery with before and after pics. As far as international media physically landing in Balakot, there was a small nuisance of air space being closed due to war cloud that was hanging over both countries.

To put timeliness in perspective, it's been 70 years since UN has been able to step foot in Indian Occupied Kashmir. 48 days is miniscule compared to that

https://in.reuters.com/article/india-kashmir-pakistan-madrasa-idINKCN1QO26W

 

[daytrader]

https://in.reuters.com/article/india-kashmir-pakistan-madrasa-idINKCN1QO26W

This is the Indian website of Reuters so obviously there is mirch masala added to cater to the local audience. The truth though does come out. Right from the article you posted:

"High-resolution satellite images reviewed by Reuters on Wednesday showed the madrasa appears to be standing, virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility."

 

[Pakpak]

This is the Indian website of Reuters so obviously there is mirch masala added to cater to the local audience. The truth though does come out. Right from the article you posted:

"High-resolution satellite images reviewed by Reuters on Wednesday showed the madrasa appears to be standing, virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility."

Shows you the level of this 'new' member's IQ. Doesn't read the article he quotes.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This was all done for elections which they won in the end.

 

[Mesozoic]

This is the Indian website of Reuters so obviously there is mirch masala added to cater to the local audience. The truth though does come out. Right from the article you posted:

"High-resolution satellite images reviewed by Reuters on Wednesday showed the madrasa appears to be standing, virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility."

It did not take long for Reuters to go from an "international agency" to an "Indian website".

 

[sjahmed23]

How can you bomb your own helicopter and then hide it??? Heads should've rolled over this disgrace. How should the family of deceased feel? If this isn't evidence of India becoming a fascist state then I don't know what is. A major screw up and then a cover up just to get one guy elected...

 

[Rana]

IAF was thoroughly embarrassed in February.

Their only accomplishment was crossing the loc.

Other than that here is the sequence of events:

IAF under the cover of night bombed some trees.

Then Pakistan retaliated in broad daylight, crossed the loc, bombed their intended target

This lured IAF into a dog fight.

IAF lost two planes and got a pilot captured, in the meanwhile killed 6 of their own with friendly fire downing a helicopter.

Then India lied saying they killed 300 people.

India lied that Pakistan used F16s.

IAF denied they shot their own helicopter down.

When pakistan gave their pilot back, BJP claimed it was because Pakitan was scared.

All international media, satellite images confirmed pakistans narrative that india did no damage to the building they said they hit.

However India will make a Bollywood movie, emit the helicopter disaster, and try to double down on lies.

They lost troops on the ground also. Listen to the Pakistani air Marshal’s phone call to his flight instructor. He clearly says that they also caused major damage to the troops and the media has so far only covered 30-40% of the entire story.

 

[the Great Khan]

But it took 48 days to show the same spot to neutral media. I wonder why ?

So are you implying the mighty ISI made 300 bodies vanish into thin air and reconstructed the madrassa too? And also managed to confiscate all vids mobiles news items of the janazas also? That's hundreds of people..

 

[Mesozoic]

So are you implying the mighty ISI made 300 bodies vanish into thin air and reconstructed the madrassa too? And also managed to confiscate all vids mobiles news items of the janazas also? That's hundreds of people..

That 300 figure is absurd. No Indian official claimed that.

48 days is long time brother. You can do a whole lot more than what you've mentioned in that time frame.

 

[rhony]

So are you implying the mighty ISI made 300 bodies vanish into thin air and reconstructed the madrassa too? And also managed to confiscate all vids mobiles news items of the janazas also? That's hundreds of people..

It's impossible. Based on recent history including Laden, ISI probably wasn't even aware there was a camp there. It's just oneupmanship between both countries. Apparently locals saw a few bodies being carried away. For all we know it could be 30 to 40 people training hard for something useless. They have been duly put out of their misery. Imagine someone training to be an expert on MS DOS in the age of AI and spending 16 hours a day and dreaming about it. Those people need to be put out of their misery for their own benefit.

 

[daytrader]

That 300 figure is absurd. No Indian official claimed that.

48 days is long time brother. You can do a whole lot more than what you've mentioned in that time frame.

61 days of curfew in IOK brother, question that time line, look internally rather than blaming Pakistan

 

[daytrader]

It's impossible. Based on recent history including Laden, ISI probably wasn't even aware there was a camp there. It's just oneupmanship between both countries. Apparently locals saw a few bodies being carried away. For all we know it could be 30 to 40 people training hard for something useless. They have been duly put out of their misery. Imagine someone training to be an expert on MS DOS in the age of AI and spending 16 hours a day and dreaming about it. Those people need to be put out of their misery for their own benefit.

LOL at your imagination. You're claiming ISI to be not aware when in fact it's your army that's incompetent. If ISI didn't know then no chance India knew. Bro apne armed forces ke halat check karo before making tall claims

 

[rhony]

LOL at your imagination. You're claiming ISI to be not aware when in fact it's your army that's incompetent. If ISI didn't know then no chance India knew. Bro apne armed forces ke halat check karo before making tall claims

ISI had no clue of American attack on Laden. They had no clue of Balakot strike, they had no info on 370 abrogation. These are massive intelligence failures. I don't think anyone claims RAW is world class. All I'm saying is all the hype about ISI has toned down after the recent events. I personally think both ISI and RAW are subpar and similar with not much impact

 

[Lonewarrior]

It took 48 days for Mr. Asif Ghafoor to take the int'l media to the Madarsa site where IAF supposedly bombed "some trees".

Not implying anything but just stating a random fact that my Pakistani brothers manage to completely ignore willingly or unwillingly.

https://in.reuters.com/article/india-kashmir-pakistan-madrasa-idINKCN1QO26W

It did not take long for Reuters to go from an "international agency" to an "Indian website".

That 300 figure is absurd. No Indian official claimed that.

48 days is long time brother. You can do a whole lot more than what you've mentioned in that time frame.

so which one is this "international agency" or an "Indian website" ?

28th Feb

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir-village/pakistani-village-asks-where-are-bodies-of-militants-india-says-it-bombed-idUSKCN1QH298

 

[Musakhel]

IT'S well know Indians can't fight, you could give them f-22 and Abrahm tanks they would still get beat.

 

[daytrader]

ISI had no clue of American attack on Laden. They had no clue of Balakot strike, they had no info on 370 abrogation. These are massive intelligence failures. I don't think anyone claims RAW is world class. All I'm saying is all the hype about ISI has toned down after the recent events. I personally think both ISI and RAW are subpar and similar with not much impact

Even if you believe the Laden story there is a huge difference between CIA and RAW, you cannot compare the two, the gap is huge.

In fact I disagree with your claim that ISI and RAW are similar. Pakistani armed forces are better prepared than Indian counterparts due to intel. As evident by events on Feb 27th, Pakistan already had intelligence of where India wanted to attack. When the Russians told India this that's when India backed down, otherwise we wouldve witnessed a full blown war. It was intel that made the difference.

Also the way PAF targeted, lured and downed IAF planes within 24 hours of Indian aggression shows how well Pakistan armed forces know the enemy's whereabouts. Indian response was a joke

 

[Mesozoic]

Pakistanis - RAW is incompetent. They can do nothing. They have poor Intel .

Also Pakistanis - Blame RAW for every blast in Pakistan.

Pakistanis - *Know fully that they've never won a single full scale conventional war against India and also lost half of their country fighting India. *

Also Pakistanis - Indians can't fight. Pak army is superior.

Make up your mind brothers.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistanis - RAW is incompetent. They can do nothing. They have poor Intel .

Also Pakistanis - Blame RAW for every blast in Pakistan.

Pakistanis - *Know fully that they've never won a single full scale conventional war against India and also lost half of their country fighting India. *

Also Pakistanis - Indians can't fight. Pak army is superior.

Make up your mind brothers.

Please stick to the thread topic.

Condolonces for the deaths of your soldiers who were killed by your own soldiers.

Do you feel IAF should press charges against those who shot the chopper down?

 

[Mesozoic]

Please stick to the thread topic.

Condolonces for the deaths of your soldiers who were killed by your own soldiers.

Do you feel IAF should press charges against those who shot the chopper down?

I'm pretty sure they already would have done something. Incompetency should not be encouraged.

 

[kk1992]

Pakistanis - RAW is incompetent. They can do nothing. They have poor Intel .

Also Pakistanis - Blame RAW for every blast in Pakistan.

Pakistanis - *Know fully that they've never won a single full scale conventional war against India and also lost half of their country fighting India. *

Also Pakistanis - Indians can't fight. Pak army is superior.

Make up your mind brothers.

Most radical extremists are able to blow crap up anywhere in the world. Not a yardstick to measure any intelligence agency, like RAW.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I'm pretty sure they already would have done something. Incompetency should not be encouraged.

The IAF spokesman said they are investigating and will seek disciplinary action. Imo it is Modi who should be responsible for this because of his recklass actions in trying to bomb Pakistan which backfired.