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ICC takes up matter of Sarfaraz Ahmed's derogatory remarks against Andile Phehlukwayo

If they have to ban him then do it for one or two matches. If they want someone else as captain then they should do it doesn't matter what's result of this issue.
 
Almost a day since a hugely embarrassing episode for the country and the cricket board by its captain - and no statement from PCB or Mani.

Get out of the boardroom and get in front of the problem!

As Alexia Ocasio Cortez would say, #WheresMani?
 
Its more than 10+ hours passed and PCB has kept its mouth shut means he will get away unless ICC ban him few matches. Then again PCB may protest the ban and will fight to reduce it.
 
Junaids said:
PCB should ban him for life.

This is far more shameful than Amir, Asif and Butt. It portrays Pakistanis as ignorant, racist bigots, and it needs a very strong PCB response.

And I say this as someone who likes Sarfraz and wrote in 2016 that he was Pakistan’s only world class player.
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Sarfraz at worst made a racist remark which is his opinion only he didnt sell his country for few dollars.
 
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He needs to be stripped of captaincy. PCB really needs to make it known to the world that it doesn't tolerate racism. You've got ex players constantly taking digs at foreign coaches due to their race. Pakistan itself is a country that is notorious for its treatment to minority classes.

Enough is enough now, until PCB doesn't take a stand nothing will change! Imran Khan is sensible enough to personally sack Sarfaraz.
 
Junaids said:
With respect, I couldn't care less what Pakistanis say about black people in Pakistan.

South Africa is a country in which its entire identity is mutilated by the awful hstory of Apartheid, by which until 1994 black people could not:

1. Vote
2. Live in the same towns as people of other colours.
3. Attend the same schools or hospitals as people of other colours.
4. Be present in towns after 6 pm at night.
5. Marry or socialize with people of other colours.

Yet you go there as guests, and the person in charge of your team says to a black South African "Hey black guy, where's your mother sitting today? What [prayer] have you got her to say for you today?"

I marched in London and risked arrest in the 1980's for the liberation of South Africa from racist rule.

And I have to say, I have never, ever in my life been more disgusted by events on a cricket field than what Sarfraz Ahmed said today. And it's even worse that he did it in Durban, where for generations Indians were the second most privileged racial group and were perceived as racist towards black people - even Mahatma Gandhi made outrageous racial slurs there against black Africans.

I don't care whether Pakistanis talk that way in Pakistan. To do so in South Africa of all places is just appalling.
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lol this getting ridiculous now you really need to get a grip of reality 🤦🏽*♂️
 
Haysman asked Rameez to translate and Rameez just laughed it off as if its nothing serious. Sack Rameez also!
 
Rana said:
Haysman asked Rameez to translate and Rameez just laughed it off as if its nothing serious. Sack Rameez also!
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What should he have done in that situation? It is very difficult and it required diplomacy.
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Your outrage is based on the assumption that someone like Sarfraz is aware of the history of racism in South Africa.

If an educated, knowledgeable individual who is well-versed with the history of South Africa does what he did, it will be unforgivable.

However, we are talking about Sarfraz here. A person who can barely string two sentences together.

His conduct and the way he carries himself clearly suggests that he has very little awareness (and has had very little exposure) outside the society and culture he grew up in.

He probably doesn’t have a clue about South Africa other than the fact that they play cricket.

He deserves to be punished for what he said, but he cannot be punished for saying it in South Africa simply because he is ignorant of the Apartheid.

I am sure the ICC and CSA will recognize this and will not link what he said with the Apartheid.

The ICC should punish Sarfraz according to the standard penalty for racism, and not impose an extended ban because he made a racist comment in South Africa.

As far as the PCB are concerned, they need to act professionally for a change and sack him as captain with immediate effect.

Regardless of the causal racism in Pakistan and the common usage of the black word, it is simply unacceptable for the captain to use such language that too on air.
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Its already a day and PCB is silent mean they will not take any action. PCB is as same unprofessional like before.
 
barah_admi said:
What should he have done in that situation? It is very difficult and it required diplomacy.
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The point is, Rameez has been pretty terrible also knowing that his job is the most secured job in Pakistani journalism. He asked Ajaz Patel if he wants to do an interview in urdu, live on national TV! Why??
 
Rana said:
The point is, Rameez has been pretty terrible also knowing that his job is the most secured job in Pakistani journalism. He asked Ajaz Patel if he wants to do an interview in urdu, live on national TV! Why??
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Let's stick to the discussion at hand. What should Rameez Raja have done if not be diplomatic? Especially in a situation where everything is not yet clear, a match is on going and millions are watching?
 
Hawkeye said:
Very strange.

What university did he go to and how did he get the degree? If it was Urdu university majoring in Urdu, i i s understandable.

Even then, education should have had some effect on him?
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I know he comes across as a very uneducated person if you listen to him speak. But his done a bachelors degree in electrical engineering from the prestigious dawood university of engineering and technology- the one in Karachi.
 
How cruel is life! Everybody is expendable lol

And what a mess Pakistan find themselves in only a few months before the world cup.
 
Rana said:
Haysman asked Rameez to translate and Rameez just laughed it off as if its nothing serious. Sack Rameez also!
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In that situation Rameez did the right thing no way should have translated what was said on live tv that would be the dumbest thing to do. Rameez handled it perfectly
 
Any other board would have banned him by now. But going by history, I expect PCB to do nothing. ICC must steps in here. Open racism in a cricket field of this kind should not be tolerated.
 
People calling for a life ban and what not are just trying push their own personal bias. A 1-2 match ban is more than enough. I would say a heavy fine is ok too without any ban.

Instead looking to gain the most out another person's misery it would be better if people of Pakistan and India both reflected upon their own mindset regarding this issue.
 
Pakistan’s wicket-keeper and captain Sarfraz Ahmed could find himself in hot water over a chirp he directed to Andile Phehlukwayo in Tuesday’s second ODI at Kingsmead.

During the 37th over of South Africa’s chase of 203‚ Ahmed was clearly heard by the broadcast stump mics saying:“Abey kaale‚ teri ammi aaj kahaan baitheen hain? Kya parwa ke aaye hai aaj?“.

Translated literally‚ it means: ““Hey black guy‚ where’s your mother sitting today? What [prayer] have you got her to say for you today?”

Proteas team manager Dr Mohammed Moosajee said the team did not lodge a complaint but match referee Ranjan Madugalle has taken up the matter.

Australian Paul Reiffel and South African Bongani Jele were the on-field umpires while West Indian Gregory Brathwaite was the third umpire.

They‚ along with the match referee‚ are the ones who can lodge a complaint.

“It isn’t a usual charge but the procedure has started because it isn’t a usual charge. There are certain procedures that have to be followed.

“The team hasn’t laid a complaint but the match referee has opened up the procedure to start to investigate the incident‚” Moosajee said

Ahmed’s comments are covered by the International Cricket Council’s code of conduct for player behaviour or the ICC’s anti-racism code.

Article 2 of the anti-racism code states: “The following conduct‚ if committed by a Participant at any time during‚or in relation to‚ an International Match‚ shall amount to an offence under the Anti-Racism Code:

2.1.1 Engaging in any conduct (whether through the use of language‚ gestures or otherwise) which is likely to offend‚ insult‚ humiliate‚ intimidate‚ threaten‚ disparage or vilify any reasonable person in the position of a Player‚ Player Support Personnel‚ Umpire‚ Match Referee‚ Umpire Support Personnel or any other person (includinga spectator) on the basis of their race‚ religion‚ culture‚ colour‚ descent‚ national or ethnic origin.”

If Ahmed is found to be guilty‚ he faces an imposition of four to eight suspension points.

That means he faces the possibility of missing four ODI’s/T20s or two Tests if he receives four suspension points.

Ahmed will also have to undergo a programme of education/counselling designed to promote the understanding and awareness of issues directly relevant to the offence he committed should he be found guilty.

South Africa won the second ODI in Durban by five wickets to square the five-match series at 1-all and the third ODI will take place at SuperSport Park in Centurion on Friday evening.

https://www.heraldlive.co.za/sport/...fter-racially-abusing-sas-andile-phehlukwayo/
 
Sher Khan said:
I know he comes across as a very uneducated person if you listen to him speak. But his done a bachelors degree in electrical engineering from the prestigious dawood university of engineering and technology- the one in Karachi.
Click to expand...

Are you sure of that?is there any proof?Any link to an authentic video/article where he may have said that?
 
MenInG said:
Pakistan’s wicket-keeper and captain Sarfraz Ahmed could find himself in hot water over a chirp he directed to Andile Phehlukwayo in Tuesday’s second ODI at Kingsmead.

During the 37th over of South Africa’s chase of 203‚ Ahmed was clearly heard by the broadcast stump mics saying:“Abey kaale‚ teri ammi aaj kahaan baitheen hain? Kya parwa ke aaye hai aaj?“.

Translated literally‚ it means: ““Hey black guy‚ where’s your mother sitting today? What [prayer] have you got her to say for you today?”

Proteas team manager Dr Mohammed Moosajee said the team did not lodge a complaint but match referee Ranjan Madugalle has taken up the matter.

Australian Paul Reiffel and South African Bongani Jele were the on-field umpires while West Indian Gregory Brathwaite was the third umpire.

They‚ along with the match referee‚ are the ones who can lodge a complaint.

“It isn’t a usual charge but the procedure has started because it isn’t a usual charge. There are certain procedures that have to be followed.

“The team hasn’t laid a complaint but the match referee has opened up the procedure to start to investigate the incident‚” Moosajee said

Ahmed’s comments are covered by the International Cricket Council’s code of conduct for player behaviour or the ICC’s anti-racism code.

Article 2 of the anti-racism code states: “The following conduct‚ if committed by a Participant at any time during‚or in relation to‚ an International Match‚ shall amount to an offence under the Anti-Racism Code:

2.1.1 Engaging in any conduct (whether through the use of language‚ gestures or otherwise) which is likely to offend‚ insult‚ humiliate‚ intimidate‚ threaten‚ disparage or vilify any reasonable person in the position of a Player‚ Player Support Personnel‚ Umpire‚ Match Referee‚ Umpire Support Personnel or any other person (includinga spectator) on the basis of their race‚ religion‚ culture‚ colour‚ descent‚ national or ethnic origin.”

If Ahmed is found to be guilty‚ he faces an imposition of four to eight suspension points.

That means he faces the possibility of missing four ODI’s/T20s or two Tests if he receives four suspension points.

Ahmed will also have to undergo a programme of education/counselling designed to promote the understanding and awareness of issues directly relevant to the offence he committed should he be found guilty.

South Africa won the second ODI in Durban by five wickets to square the five-match series at 1-all and the third ODI will take place at SuperSport Park in Centurion on Friday evening.

https://www.heraldlive.co.za/sport/...fter-racially-abusing-sas-andile-phehlukwayo/
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This looks bad for Sarfaraz.
Is there any idea when will the verdict be announced?
 
Shouldn't the PCB issue a statement in regards to this as in that they are looking into it before the ICC says/does something?
 
As per expectations, PCB continuing the strong tradition of being a spineless cricket board and leaving ICC to push them before taking any action.
 
In recent times Boards punished their players more than expected. India/Australia. Wonder what PCB's take on this issue.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

i do think that some of the posters here are just going crazy, like Junaid

When i was like 13 year old and newly moved to Canada, i would often here black students call each other the N word. SO i had a black friend and asked him what did the word meant? Another couple of black kids heard me and kept on saying that say the word one more time. My friend kept warning me dont say.

At that time i didn't understand the amount of trouble i could had gotten into for saying the N word. ANd it didnt make any logical sense to me that while the black kids culd use the n word for each other, but not me.

It was after a couple of weeks i understood all this.

One thing we have to accept here is that in our culture we don't know how serious racism is, and its ridiculous that other societies should expect this from us. When we haven't seen black racism existing in our society how the hell are we suppose to know the affects.

Its like how we regard parents, and we get offended easily when someone uses a swear word involving parents. Now people frm West wont understand this but we do.


I am not defending Sarfraz's acts here, yes he needs a talking two, but i am giving a perspective from a culture point of view.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is going around saying that this is worst then cricket corruption. No its not.

its just that people from different cultures coming into the real world.

Though i hope safraz gets punished, but the perspective of Sarfraz's culture and how limited his knowledge should be with this regard is taken into account by whoever gives out a decision
 
PCB should do the right the right thing for once and strip him of his captaincy, regardless of the ICC punishment.
 
IM a little lost and confused by all this. Is ICC even looking at this where they are going to be coming with a decision or are we all here just speculating. I thought ICC can just recommend but it falls on PCB to carry out any punishment/bans right ?
 
Just out of curiosity (not defending Sarfraz in any way) If a white man calls an African American man the N word then its racism. If a fair looking brown man says the N word then its racism.
But if an African American calls another African American the N word then its taken as a show of love. On which spectrum of offense does it lie for Sarfraz? Not implying in any way that this wasnt racist. But what does it entail for Sarfraz? He said it like he was making fun of the player.
 
PCB Should have banned Sarfraz and sent him home by now, let alone be waiting for ICC to take any action.
 
waleed88 said:
Just out of curiosity (not defending Sarfraz in any way) If a white man calls an African American man the N word then its racism. If a fair looking brown man says the N word then its racism.
But if an African American calls another African American the N word then its taken as a show of love. On which spectrum of offense does it lie for Sarfraz? Not implying in any way that this wasnt racist. But what does it entail for Sarfraz? He said it like he was making fun of the player.
Click to expand...

You are confusing friends calling each other N word to someone who is a guest in the country degrading the host. For ex; the other day one of my friend said he played Basketball in college, I said "you are too white and too short to play BB", he said you wouldn't know "white men can jump." We both laughed it off. Do you thing I would dare say this to someone who I am not close to?

It is also sad to see fans here want Safraz removed from captaincy using this incident. He made a honest mistake, he should apologize to AP over dinner and move on.
 
waleed88 said:
Just out of curiosity (not defending Sarfraz in any way) If a white man calls an African American man the N word then its racism. If a fair looking brown man says the N word then its racism.
But if an African American calls another African American the N word then its taken as a show of love. On which spectrum of offense does it lie for Sarfraz? Not implying in any way that this wasnt racist. But what does it entail for Sarfraz? He said it like he was making fun of the player.
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There is no way what Sarfaraz said is anywhere close to or has the implied meaning when a racist in America calls an African person with the 'N' word.

A warning, fine and at most 2 matches ban should be more than enough of a punishment.
 
Major said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

i do think that some of the posters here are just going crazy, like Junaid

When i was like 13 year old and newly moved to Canada, i would often here black students call each other the N word. SO i had a black friend and asked him what did the word meant? Another couple of black kids heard me and kept on saying that say the word one more time. My friend kept warning me dont say.

At that time i didn't understand the amount of trouble i could had gotten into for saying the N word. ANd it didnt make any logical sense to me that while the black kids culd use the n word for each other, but not me.

It was after a couple of weeks i understood all this.

One thing we have to accept here is that in our culture we don't know how serious racism is, and its ridiculous that other societies should expect this from us. When we haven't seen black racism existing in our society how the hell are we suppose to know the affects.

Its like how we regard parents, and we get offended easily when someone uses a swear word involving parents. Now people frm West wont understand this but we do.


I am not defending Sarfraz's acts here, yes he needs a talking two, but i am giving a perspective from a culture point of view.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is going around saying that this is worst then cricket corruption. No its not.

its just that people from different cultures coming into the real world.

Though i hope safraz gets punished, but the perspective of Sarfraz's culture and how limited his knowledge should be with this regard is taken into account by whoever gives out a decision
Click to expand...

Good balanced post. He deserves to be punished more so as a deterrent/precedent than for anything else.
 
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If Ahmed is found to be guilty‚ he faces an imposition of four to eight suspension points.

That means he faces the possibility of missing four ODI’s/T20s or two Tests if he receives four suspension points.

Ahmed will also have to undergo a programme of education/counselling designed to promote the understanding and awareness of issues directly relevant to the offence he committed should he be found guilty.
Click to expand...


The ICC should probably enrol the PCB on this course as well, might help to avoid such incidents in the future.
 
This. Whats all the hoopla about? In India Krishna (black skinned person) is arevered name! Why exactly kaalay is racist? Is black a bad color?
 
This is where Pakistani media and social media icons are a failure.

A broadcaster SuperSports has been employing biased techniques in reviews against visitors, Pakistani, india and Australian. And have gotten away with it. When complain can be lodged towards lbw projection of this channel.

Phehlukwayo was too lucky to survive the lbw decision.
 
Impose atleast one year ban for the sake of betterment of the Pak Cricket. He is simply a burden.
 
If there is some ban imposed - IT MUST NOT BE FOR 3 ODIs ONLY. Either ban him at least for 8 ODIs or don't ban him at all. Or they can ban him for 5 ODIs after the current tour.

In any case, Sarfraz MUST lead PAK in next 3 games at Centurion, J'burg & Cape Town. It's unfair for him to be deprived of bashing this hapless SAF side in this series and then come back to take the load of mighty Australia in UAE, for 5 games :)
 
MMHS said:
If there is some ban imposed - IT MUST NOT BE FOR 3 ODIs ONLY. Either ban him at least for 8 ODIs or don't ban him at all. Or they can ban him for 5 ODIs after the current tour.

In any case, Sarfraz MUST lead PAK in next 3 games at Centurion, J'burg & Cape Town. It's unfair for him to be deprived of bashing this hapless SAF side in this series and then come back to take the load of mighty Australia in UAE, for 5 games :)
Click to expand...

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
 
a_tahir said:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Click to expand...

That's the art of dubious talking :) - I am keeping myself covered, so that Bhakts don't get behind it, if somehow Sarfraz manages to score another 50 or PAK wins a game or two.
 
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One match ban for Sarfaraz + Three match fees to be deducted from Sarfaraz and to be given to Phelukawayo as compensation
 
I think ban of remain odi in South Africa be sufficient. He can play 20-20. ICC will struggle to do anything if he gets a lawyer. It's a goodwill gesture to do something before ICC says it's fine. Worse outcome will be Pakistani board doing nothing and ICC punishing him. That will be embarrassing.
 
it pisses me off, the **** he said was not even racist....Why the hell are we going to make it a big issue....... 99% of people living aboard use or talk like ..."Kaala kahan hay"...."Kaala arhaa hay" and etc. its stupid to make it such a big deal. we need to learn to back our players.
 
Anwar_194 said:
it pisses me off, the **** he said was not even racist....Why the hell are we going to make it a big issue....... 99% of people living aboard use or talk like ..."Kaala kahan hay"...."Kaala arhaa hay" and etc. its stupid to make it such a big deal. we need to learn to back our players.
Click to expand...

back your players?
that's how you want the young kids to call their friends while playing or in classroom?
abey kaale yahan aa? is it?
kids follows whatever they see and heard .
i hope icc make a good example out of it.
and i also hope pandya will be punished accordingly
 
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Savak said:
Really depends on how the ICC views the intent, was the sentence occurred deliberately with malicious intent to hurt the other person or was it just an ignorant lighthearted expression of frustration.
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nothing light hearted about using a racial slur mate
 
Anwar_194 said:
it pisses me off, the **** he said was not even racist....Why the hell are we going to make it a big issue....... 99% of people living aboard use or talk like ..."Kaala kahan hay"...."Kaala arhaa hay" and etc. its stupid to make it such a big deal. we need to learn to back our players.
Click to expand...

Call anyone "oye kaale" in the streets of Pakistan especially someone who is not weak. I would love to see how you are treated.
 
Anwar_194 said:
it pisses me off, the **** he said was not even racist....Why the hell are we going to make it a big issue....... 99% of people living aboard use or talk like ..."Kaala kahan hay"...."Kaala arhaa hay" and etc. its stupid to make it such a big deal. we need to learn to back our players.
Click to expand...

No justification for racism. Call him any name but don't mention his skin colour. Disgusting mentality.
 
Sarfaraz Ahmed used the Luis Suarez defence, the one that resulted in an 8 match ban

One small reflection from the past has resurfaced in the Sarfraz Ahmed scandal in South Africa.

When Luis Suarez clashed with Patrice Evra in 2011-12, his defence was almost identical to the one used by Sarfraz Ahmed.

1. The panel accepted that he used a racial word only once.

2. The panel accepted that in his own native Uruguay, the word “negrito” is widely used and not considered to be abusive.

3. The panel accepted that he might not be a racist, and might have been frustrated.

4. The panel found Suarez Guilty, banned him for 8 matches and fined him $60,000.

Sarfraz Ahmed has used the same defence. His racial comments are recorded on film.

How has the PCB failed to punish him at least as strictly as Luis Suarez was punished for the same offence with the same defence (and less audio evidence)?
 
When is the hearing? I hope its not just before the world cup.
Also tweet IK to remove this useless PCB chairman who likes to hibernate himself when problem arise.
 
There are different thoughts in this case.

The reality is simple:
1. Desis are racists without realising they are actually racist.
2. Calling someone by their skin colour is very common in our part of the world and I can bet anything a lot of desi posters here have called someone by their skin colour sometime in their life.
3. Not just racism about skin colour but racism about economic status or profession is also very common amongst desis. Terms like Majdoor (labour), kaamwala (maid), one poster here even said dhobi (laundry person) are used as insults in our part of the world. These are honest professions however people in our part of the world look down on such professions and use them as insults.

The defence for sarfaraz is that he wasn't being racist because it's a common word in Urdu.. However this defence is very flawed. The fact is it is a common word (agreed) however its commonly used because majority of the country is racist themselves without realising it.

What needs to be done here is that an example should be set and used to educate the entire nation about racism and try to change the mindset.. Demeaning anyone due to their social status, profession, skin colour etc is absolutely pathetic and disgusting but it's the most common thing in our countries. Sarfaraz should be given strict punishment by PCB and then his case should be highlighted by the media to edcmucate the society about racism.

Would it be harsh on sarfaraz if he is used as an example? Yes

However if the country benefits from his one wrong doing and goes in a better direction I believe sarfaraz would be happy to never play cricket again to see Pakistan growing as a nation..

IK as the new prime minister and ex cricketer has a golden opportunity to take this issue and change the mindset of Pakistanis for the good. If he can do that he will go down as a hero..

Let's see what happens.
 
Junaids said:
One small reflection from the past has resurfaced in the Sarfraz Ahmed scandal in South Africa.

When Luis Suarez clashed with Patrice Evra in 2011-12, his defence was almost identical to the one used by Sarfraz Ahmed.

1. The panel accepted that he used a racial word only once.

2. The panel accepted that in his own native Uruguay, the word “negrito” is widely used and not considered to be abusive.

3. The panel accepted that he might not be a racist, and might have been frustrated.

4. The panel found Suarez Guilty, banned him for 8 matches and fined him $60,000.

Sarfraz Ahmed has used the same defence. His racial comments are recorded on film.

How has the PCB failed to punish him at least as strictly as Luis Suarez was punished for the same offence with the same defence (and less audio evidence)?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was watching that interview and he said that he said something in Spanish which in Uruguay (I'm assuming the dialect of Spanish in Uruguay is different to Spanish used in spain) that the word is not offensive, Suarez's English isn't great but what he said was directly to Evra and no one in that context would randomly just use a formal word for black man. Sarfaraz wasn't even speaking directly to Bavuma, so what Suarez done was worse for sure, but Sarfaraz should be punished too.
 
Interesting to see how Sarfaraz Ahmed was treated and how Ollie will be treated by ICC.

Or is there a statute of limitations on racist remarks?
 
MenInG said:
Interesting to see how Sarfaraz Ahmed was treated and how Ollie will be treated by ICC.

Or is there a statute of limitations on racist remarks?
Click to expand...

Chalk and Cheese comparison. Sarfraz hurled racist comments on the field in an ongoing match. Ollie tweeted something like 9 years ago...lol. If anything, the later is an absolute non issue and again proves how weird the world has become just to come across as politically correct.
 
MenInG said:
Interesting to see how Sarfaraz Ahmed was treated and how Ollie will be treated by ICC.

Or is there a statute of limitations on racist remarks?
Click to expand...

Not really comparable. Sarfraz said racist stuff during the match which was in ICC's domain whereas Robinson posted tweets almost a decade ago.
 
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