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Idea of 'independent Kashmir' not based on reality, no support for demand: Shahid Khaqan Abbasi

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Pakistan Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi has rejected the idea of an "independent Kashmir", saying it was not based on "reality", according to a media report.

Abbasi was addressing a conference on 'Future of Pakistan 2017' held at the London School of Economics' South Asia Centre here on Sunday.

After his address, the prime minister responded to a range of questions on topics from Afghanistan, civil-military ties, disqualification of his predecessor Nawaz Sharif, to relations with India and the Kashmir issue.

On a question about "independent Kashmir", the prime minister said "the idea is often floated around but has no reality", Geo TV reported.

"There is no support for the demand for independent Kashmir," he claimed.

Talking about ties with India, Abbasi said relations between the two countries cannot improve till the Kashmir issue is resolved.

"Talks are the only way forward, without talks no quantum change is possible," he said.

To another question, he said though the judiciary had removed Sharif as prime minister, "however we have left it to history to judge whether history accepts the judgment or not".

He also said that most of Pakistan does not agree with Sharif's disqualification by the Supreme Court.
Sharif was disqualified as premier by the apex court on July 28 in the Panama Papers scandal.
On US-Pakistan relations, Abbasi said they should not be defined by Afghanistan alone.

The prime minister also presented a positive picture of Pakistan's economy and claimed there has been a marked improvement in every economic field since 2013.

http://m.indiatvnews.com/amp/news/w...qan-abbasi-rejects-independent-kashmir-410447
 
I dont think he has any right to make a statement like that. You cannot ask for a referendum and then say the result should be what you want!
 
I agree he has no right to make that assessment . Not sure what he was thinking when he said that. Totally tells me that he doesn't care or has other ideas in mind.
 
Let the Kashmiri people decide to put an end to this ridiculous arms race and needless waste of resources.
 
What an idiot, most opinion polls show that over 95% of Kashmiri Muslims want independence. This shouldn't even be prime minister, he can barely hold a conversation or speak articulately.
 
Having read the article I can now taste a little bit of puke in my mouth.
Better go and rinse my mouth..
 
It's OK if Pakistan doesn't want to support Independent Kashmir Movement but Who is he to say that it is not based on reality. Disgusting
 
What the hell does he mean? Can you grab the context in what he is referring to?
 
So basically Pak's support for Kashmir is just for land grab rather than support for Kashmiri people's will?
 
Puppet sahb should have said that a referendum should be held to decide the loyalty of the Kashmiri people.Unfortunately,democratic India will never allow that.They are too scared of losing Kashmir.
 
Acha , so it was always a land grab as far as Pakistan is concerned , not a genuine concern for Kashmiri voices and aspirations. A top official has finally given the game away ..
 
Thomaskutty said:
Acha , so it was always a land grab as far as Pakistan is concerned , not a genuine concern for Kashmiri voices and aspirations. A top official has finally given the game away ..
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Acha, what it shows is that ONE man's opinion is flawed.
 
cricketjoshila said:
So the PM of Pakistan has finally accepted the truth.
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Right i wonder if anyone in Pakistan, like other leaders, political parties and maybe military has heard thisgaffe if true or has any other media even picked up on this. How accurate is the initial source ? This just proves what India has been saying all along...that Pakistan is holding onto Kashmir , so the army continues to stay relevant, Pakistan continues to stay relevant..And not because Pakistan really wants to see through the plight of the Kashmiris...
 
Can't expect anything else from ganja league prime minister after all his predecessor was responsible for kargil withdrawl
This whole party are indian loving traitors

Their links to the house of saud and Zionists needs to be exposed and then army should hang all of them for treason
 
It almost sounds like the whole excerpt might have been taken out of context. Can't confirm until there is an actual visual clip or source is verified...
 
carbon11 said:
Can't expect anything else from ganja league prime minister after all his predecessor was responsible for kargil withdrawl
This whole party are indian loving traitors

Their links to the house of saud and Zionists needs to be exposed and then army should hang all of them for treason
Click to expand...

LOL.. you are talking as if you were winning kargil war without withdrawal.
 
People seem to be annoyed for no reason. He's just stating what's on UN resolutions- no independence option.

Pak have always said UN resolutions. Outside Kashmir valley, there is little appetite for independence.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
People seem to be annoyed for no reason. He's just stating what's on UN resolutions- no independence option.

Pak have always said UN resolutions. Outside Kashmir valley, there is little appetite for independence.
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UN resolution actually has independence as an option.
 
Shocking statement from a head of the state. I had to read it twice to believe the stupidity.

I think Pakistani population in general, and public speakers in particular, seriously need to work on articulating themselves better. You can't always say what you feel like. You can't always blurt out any emotional crap. There is something called time and place.

The opinion on this subject is divided in Kashmir. Now this gentleman, Mr. Prime minister, either doesn't know the ground realities of Kashmir or he simply doesn't care about the implications of such statements.

Hate to say it, but in the recent years, Indians have developed into better speakers than Pakistanis. Better in terms of intelligence of using words, knowing what to say on what occassions. Better preparation and better knowledge of subjects which appeal to the listeners. It used to be the other way round in earlier decades after independence but not now. Come on Pakistan, you can do better than this.
 
I think he has been asked about giving independence to Pakistani Kashmir (Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan), to which he has responded as such. Of course, there's no demand for independence in our part of Kashmir, to which Abbasi is right.
 
Madplayer said:
Shocking statement from a head of the state. I had to read it twice to believe the stupidity.

I think Pakistani population in general, and public speakers in particular, seriously need to work on articulating themselves better. You can't always say what you feel like. You can't always blurt out any emotional crap. There is something called time and place.

The opinion on this subject is divided in Kashmir. Now this gentleman, Mr. Prime minister, either doesn't know the ground realities of Kashmir or he simply doesn't care about the implications of such statements.

Hate to say it, but in the recent years, Indians have developed into better speakers than Pakistanis. Better in terms of intelligence of using words, knowing what to say on what occassions. Better preparation and better knowledge of subjects which appeal to the listeners. It used to be the other way round in earlier decades after independence but not now. Come on Pakistan, you can do better than this.
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Good points.

However he also added he thinks history will answer the question about independent Kashmir but he does not think it is something that's realistic. Then stated he thinks should be as per UN resolutions.

I've always been of the opinion that we should choose between Pakistan and India. If nationalists want a 3rd option, then they should ensure it is added to UN resolutions.

Independence has some history in valley...but also something India introduced in valley in recent years to quell pro Pak sentiment. India knows independence won't happen so it strengthens their grip.

Hashim Qureshi is someone they into AJK a few decades ago to cause problems and his son has suddenly appeared and Kashmiris can't stand him.
 
Madplayer said:
Shocking statement from a head of the state. I had to read it twice to believe the stupidity.

I think Pakistani population in general, and public speakers in particular, seriously need to work on articulating themselves better. You can't always say what you feel like. You can't always blurt out any emotional crap. There is something called time and place.

The opinion on this subject is divided in Kashmir. Now this gentleman, Mr. Prime minister, either doesn't know the ground realities of Kashmir or he simply doesn't care about the implications of such statements.

Hate to say it, but in the recent years, Indians have developed into better speakers than Pakistanis. Better in terms of intelligence of using words, knowing what to say on what occassions. Better preparation and better knowledge of subjects which appeal to the listeners. It used to be the other way round in earlier decades after independence but not now. Come on Pakistan, you can do better than this.
Click to expand...

Addition to above post.

Good points.

However he also added he thinks history will answer the question about independent Kashmir but he does not think it is something that's realistic. Then stated he thinks should be as per UN resolutions.

I've always been of the opinion that we should choose between Pakistan and India. If nationalists want a 3rd option, then they should ensure it is added to UN resolutions.

Independence has some history in valley...but also something India introduced in valley in recent years to quell pro Pak sentiment. India knows independence won't happen so by talking about it , it strengthens their grip.

India doesn't chat about independence but they hell for sure don't like any talk about Kashmir valley and Doda, Bhaderwah and Rajouri (areas of large Pakistani support) joining Pakistan.

Hashim Qureshi is someone they into AJK a few decades ago to cause problems and his son has suddenly appeared and Kashmiris can't stand him.

I would be very interested if Kashmiris suddenly all started talking about joining Pakistan- would be very interesting. Our Pakistan support is suppressed; I am confident Pakistan would win any 2 or 3 choice referendum in the valley, AJK, GB and Muslim areas of Jammu.

Strong support for Independence is only limited to some urban areas of the Kashmir valley.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
Addition to above post.

Good points.

However he also added he thinks history will answer the question about independent Kashmir but he does not think it is something that's realistic. Then stated he thinks should be as per UN resolutions.

I've always been of the opinion that we should choose between Pakistan and India. If nationalists want a 3rd option, then they should ensure it is added to UN resolutions.

Independence has some history in valley...but also something India introduced in valley in recent years to quell pro Pak sentiment. India knows independence won't happen so by talking about it , it strengthens their grip.

India doesn't chat about independence but they hell for sure don't like any talk about Kashmir valley and Doda, Bhaderwah and Rajouri (areas of large Pakistani support) joining Pakistan.

Hashim Qureshi is someone they into AJK a few decades ago to cause problems and his son has suddenly appeared and Kashmiris can't stand him.

I would be very interested if Kashmiris suddenly all started talking about joining Pakistan- would be very interesting. Our Pakistan support is suppressed; I am confident Pakistan would win any 2 or 3 choice referendum in the valley, AJK, GB and Muslim areas of Jammu.

Strong support for Independence is only limited to some urban areas of the Kashmir valley.
Click to expand...

Personally i believe demands for independence are delusional, emotional and not well thought out. But if i was the PM of Pakistan, i wont go on record to speak against it because it is true that a section of Kashmiri population, small BUT influential, does have leanings towards independence. This includes Yaseen malik. Why say anything which can prove counter productive and antagonise somebody and not yield anything beneficial? Could have been avoided. Should have been avoided. Rather he should have said that we want the dispute to be solved in accordance with the aspirations of Kashmiris. This would have presented a better stance of Pakistan.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Pakistan isnt even a choice.The resolution asks pakistan to vacate PoK.While it allows India to keep its army inJ and K.

Please read the resolution.
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Actually it was only a token Indian army for maintainence of law and order because of ineptness of local law enforcement establishments at that time. But now jammu and Kashmir police is more than capable of maintaining law and order so no need for Indian army.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Pakistan isnt even a choice.The resolution asks pakistan to vacate PoK.While it allows India to keep its army inJ and K.

Please read the resolution.
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I think I as a Kashmiri know better.

It says Pakistan should vacate first- but that's not going to happen because India won't agree to it.

If India doesn't agree and Pakistan vacates, India will walk into AJK to fulfil its constitution.

If India agrees to referendum and Pakistan fails to vacate then it is Pakistan's fault.

Until then ball in India court.

There are two choices: Pakistan or India in UN resolution. Joshila, you need to stop watching Indian channels 😂

Mad player which part of Kashmir (district) are you from and why is social media full of pro independence valley Kashmiris and Bradnock poll Reflects the same?

I've heard there's a purposeful undermining of pro Pakistan support in valley.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
I think I as a Kashmiri know better.

It says Pakistan should vacate first- but that's not going to happen because India won't agree to it.

If India doesn't agree and Pakistan vacates, India will walk into AJK to fulfil its constitution.

If India agrees to referendum and Pakistan fails to vacate then it is Pakistan's fault.

Until then ball in India court.

There are two choices: Pakistan or India in UN resolution. Joshila, you need to stop watching Indian channels 😂

Mad player which part of Kashmir (district) are you from and why is social media full of pro independence valley Kashmiris and Bradnock poll Reflects the same?

I've heard there's a purposeful undermining of pro Pakistan support in valley.
Click to expand...

I am from the summer capital, srinagar.
Social media is full of supporters of Independence but if you notice its mostly teenagers. A big dent to Pakistan's image in Kashmir took place after nawaz sharief withdrew during Kargil war. A lot of mistrust was created and it snowballed in the following decade.

There are a lot of elements at work to undermine pro-Pakistan stance. The local television channel airs a lot of propaganda programs showing that Pakistan is hell on earth. Then there are certain elements which are using religion against Pakistan by saying Pakistan is not an Islamic country anymore and how they would create an Islamic Kashmir. An example is ex Hizbul mujahideen commander and heir to Burhan wani, Zakir Musa dissociating from Hizbul mujahideen because Hizbul supported a more secular Kashmir. There are a lot theories about why Zakir did it including the blame games. An Islamic nation is always a great dream to sell and lure young people. Who is doing it? Again a lot of theories. Then there are people who say Pakistan is simply not safe enough for anyone and Kashmiris would be better off alone. Some bring economic angles into it that Kashmiris would have control of all 5 rivers and how both India and Pakistan would be dependent on us and how we could benefit from it and be more prosperous than them.

All in all, such sentiments exist and efforts are on to proliferate them. Having said that, there is massive support for Pakistan as well.
 
Madplayer said:
Actually it was only a token Indian army for maintainence of law and order because of ineptness of local law enforcement establishments at that time. But now jammu and Kashmir police is more than capable of maintaining law and order so no need for Indian army.
Click to expand...

Terrorism stops and Indian Army should go back to the barracks.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
I think I as a Kashmiri know better.

It says Pakistan should vacate first- but that's not going to happen because India won't agree to it.

If India doesn't agree and Pakistan vacates, India will walk into AJK to fulfil its constitution.

If India agrees to referendum and Pakistan fails to vacate then it is Pakistan's fault.

Until then ball in India court.

There are two choices: Pakistan or India in UN resolution. Joshila, you need to stop watching Indian channels 😂

Mad player which part of Kashmir (district) are you from and why is social media full of pro independence valley Kashmiris and Bradnock poll Reflects the same?

I've heard there's a purposeful undermining of pro Pakistan support in valley.
Click to expand...

You are a Pakistani.So what you know about Kashmir will not matter in J and K.

UN resolution doesnt make Pakistan a choice.Pakistan must vacate POK and hand it over to UN forces who will look after it.

No nation goes to war againist UN forces.

India already agreed to UN resolution but Pakistan never vacated PoK.
 
Madplayer said:
I am from the summer capital, srinagar.
Social media is full of supporters of Independence but if you notice its mostly teenagers. A big dent to Pakistan's image in Kashmir took place after nawaz sharief withdrew during Kargil war. A lot of mistrust was created and it snowballed in the following decade.

There are a lot of elements at work to undermine pro-Pakistan stance. The local television channel airs a lot of propaganda programs showing that Pakistan is hell on earth. Then there are certain elements which are using religion against Pakistan by saying Pakistan is not an Islamic country anymore and how they would create an Islamic Kashmir. An example is ex Hizbul mujahideen commander and heir to Burhan wani, Zakir Musa dissociating from Hizbul mujahideen because Hizbul supported a more secular Kashmir. There are a lot theories about why Zakir did it including the blame games. An Islamic nation is always a great dream to sell and lure young people. Who is doing it? Again a lot of theories. Then there are people who say Pakistan is simply not safe enough for anyone and Kashmiris would be better off alone. Some bring economic angles into it that Kashmiris would have control of all 5 rivers and how both India and Pakistan would be dependent on us and how we could benefit from it and be more prosperous than them.

All in all, such sentiments exist and efforts are on to proliferate them. Having said that, there is massive support for Pakistan as well.
Click to expand...

So what option Nawaz Sharif had if not withdraw?They were losing a war and they needed to get out of it.


Islamic Kashmir and 35% non muslims will be slaughtered like the Pandits of the valley.Right?
 
Madplayer said:
Hate to say it, but in the recent years, Indians have developed into better speakers than Pakistanis. Better in terms of intelligence of using words, knowing what to say on what occassions. Better preparation and better knowledge of subjects which appeal to the listeners. It used to be the other way round in earlier decades after independence but not now. Come on Pakistan, you can do better than this.
Click to expand...

What an odd thing to say! You're suggesting that it's merely the ability to articulate that makes India come across as someone on the right side. I'll tell you a secret: Indians are able to get their points across more successfully because they *are* on the right side. An Indian terrorist wasn't responsible for 9/11, it was Pakistan-trained terrorists. OBL was caught in Abbottabad (Pakistan), not in Ahmadabad (India). India is trying to capture proven terrorists Dawood Ibrahim, Masood Azhar and Hafez Saeed, while Pakistan is treating them like honored state guests.

Guess what, if you want to be taken seriously, you have to act responsibly. Mere glib words and better articulation of your position will take you only thus far. It's a choice you have.
 
cricketjoshila said:
So what option Nawaz Sharif had if not withdraw?They were losing a war and they needed to get out of it.
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The people of Kashmir believed the Pakistani version that Pakistan was winning the war by occupying key posts and was at an advantage of higher terrain during battle. I am not going to discuss whether it was true or not but this is what people believed then and what people believe now. So the withdrawal acted as a dent to trust between Kashmiris and Pakistan.

Islamic Kashmir and 35% non muslims will be slaughtered like the Pandits of the valley.Right?
Click to expand...

I dont know that. I haven't supported this view. Personally i support a secular Kashmir but i am not going to agree with you that an Islamic jammu&Kashmir would mean slaughter of minorities. Organised Communal Slaughter of Pandits is a myth anyway which has been debunked many a times by me here and others outside this forum via statistics, letters from pandit leaders of that time etc. I dont have time to repeat it again and again. You can look for it on the internet if you really want to know about it from an unbiased POV. And thats not even the topic of discussion so i dont know why i am even saying all this.
 
English August said:
What an odd thing to say! You're suggesting that it's merely the ability to articulate that makes India come across as someone on the right side. I'll tell you a secret: Indians are able to get their points across more successfully because they *are* on the right side. An Indian terrorist wasn't responsible for 9/11, it was Pakistan-trained terrorists. OBL was caught in Abbottabad (Pakistan), not in Ahmadabad (India). India is trying to capture proven terrorists Dawood Ibrahim, Masood Azhar and Hafez Saeed, while Pakistan is treating them like honored state guests.

Guess what, if you want to be taken seriously, you have to act responsibly. Mere glib words and better articulation of your position will take you only thus far. It's a choice you have.
Click to expand...

Ofcourse Pakistan have not helped their cause either but speaking sense and knowing how to manipulate things helps.
 
Madplayer said:
I am from the summer capital, srinagar.
Social media is full of supporters of Independence but if you notice its mostly teenagers. A big dent to Pakistan's image in Kashmir took place after nawaz sharief withdrew during Kargil war. A lot of mistrust was created and it snowballed in the following decade.

There are a lot of elements at work to undermine pro-Pakistan stance. The local television channel airs a lot of propaganda programs showing that Pakistan is hell on earth. Then there are certain elements which are using religion against Pakistan by saying Pakistan is not an Islamic country anymore and how they would create an Islamic Kashmir. An example is ex Hizbul mujahideen commander and heir to Burhan wani, Zakir Musa dissociating from Hizbul mujahideen because Hizbul supported a more secular Kashmir. There are a lot theories about why Zakir did it including the blame games. An Islamic nation is always a great dream to sell and lure young people. Who is doing it? Again a lot of theories. Then there are people who say Pakistan is simply not safe enough for anyone and Kashmiris would be better off alone. Some bring economic angles into it that Kashmiris would have control of all 5 rivers and how both India and Pakistan would be dependent on us and how we could benefit from it and be more prosperous than them.

All in all, such sentiments exist and efforts are on to proliferate them. Having said that, there is massive support for Pakistan as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. So it sounds like there is still majority pro Pakistan support in Kashmir valley.

Here's my pic Bhai: you might remember a pic of a particular flag going viral during CT.
(Will upload in next post).



😊😊😊my dream is to ride a shikara, jump on a Gulmarg Gondola and travel to Sonmarg as a part of Pakistan.

I love my Kashmiri food; I enjoy Gushtaba and tabak Maaz...just need to have Wazwan in the valley! ❤️❤️❤️
 
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Wasim_Waqar said:
Thanks for your response. So it sounds like there is still majority pro Pakistan support in Kashmir valley.

Here's my pic Bhai: you might remember a pic of a particular flag going viral during CT.
(Will upload in next post).



😊😊😊my dream is to ride a shikara, jump on a Gulmarg Gondola and travel to Sonmarg as a part of Pakistan.

I love my Kashmiri food; I enjoy Gushtaba and tabak Maaz...just need to have Wazwan in the valley! ❤️❤️❤️
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Oh terrific!! Tabak maaz (ribs) is one of my favourites from the wazwan. I am glad you remember so many things haha unfortunately we have been divided. The meadows of Sonmarg, gulmarg, tangmarg, yousmarg etc are waiting for you guys.

I really wish to visit all the beautiful places in AJK. It is more mountaneous than this side i have heard. Its a travesty that we are not able to meet our own people on the other side. One day.
 
Madplayer said:
Ohhhh thats you. I have seen this picture before somewhere. Haha incredible work. Are the other guys holding the flag Kashmiris too?
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I'm Kashmiri. Most of the others are from Kashmir.

It was my dream to do something for the valley. I was very pleased to see that my flag was loved and received a lot of support.

I heard it made a positive impact? 😊
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
I'm Kashmiri. Most of the others are from Kashmir.

It was my dream to do something for the valley. I was very pleased to see that my flag was loved and received a lot of support.

I heard it made a positive impact? 😊
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It actually did. Lots of my friends shared it on facebook and twitter. Gotta say great job. Afterall we have to stand up for our own people.
 
Madplayer said:
It actually did. Lots of my friends shared it on facebook and twitter. Gotta say great job. Afterall we have to stand up for our own people.
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Absolutely agree. Got fed up of nationalists hijacking the whole Kashmir issue.

Glad you all loved it ��❤️
 
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Must be very confusing to be a Kashmiri , citizen of England supporting Pakistan , asking for Kashmir to become a state of Pakistan for just being able to eat some dishes during summer there when you visit for holidays. [MENTION=5404]Wasim_Waqar[/MENTION]
 
I think this question was for Azad Kashmir which will always remain a part of Pakistan even if Occupied Kashmir decides to go for independence.
 
Madplayer said:
The people of Kashmir believed the Pakistani version that Pakistan was winning the war by occupying key posts and was at an advantage of higher terrain during battle. I am not going to discuss whether it was true or not but this is what people believed then and what people believe now. So the withdrawal acted as a dent to trust between Kashmiris and Pakistan.



I dont know that. I haven't supported this view. Personally i support a secular Kashmir but i am not going to agree with you that an Islamic jammu&Kashmir would mean slaughter of minorities. Organised Communal Slaughter of Pandits is a myth anyway which has been debunked many a times by me here and others outside this forum via statistics, letters from pandit leaders of that time etc. I dont have time to repeat it again and again. You can look for it on the internet if you really want to know about it from an unbiased POV. And thats not even the topic of discussion so i dont know why i am even saying all this.
Click to expand...

Pakistan was winning the war?Lol.The pakistani pm is on record saying they were losing and so is the then US Presidential aide who was at the meeting.Read any unbiased account of the war and you will know.

Btw Pak Army can launch a full fledged war and still wont be able to get Kashmir, let alone via a grab job like Kargil.


Ofcourse Pandits didnt die.All that is a myth.I am sure Sikandar Butshikan will be proud.
 
Syed1 said:
I think this question was for Azad Kashmir which will always remain a part of Pakistan even if Occupied Kashmir decides to go for independence.
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He talked about both sides of LoC where he stated he hasn't seen much support.
 
JaDed said:
Must be very confusing to be a Kashmiri , citizen of England supporting Pakistan , asking for Kashmir to become a state of Pakistan for just being able to eat some dishes during summer there when you visit for holidays. [MENTION=5404]Wasim_Waqar[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

It's really not confusing. I'm also a citizen of Azad Kashmir, Pakistan. If my wife was happy to move, I would live in Keran, Azad Kashmir, on the LoC!
 
cricketjoshila said:
Pakistan was winning the war?Lol.The pakistani pm is on record saying they were losing and so is the then US Presidential aide who was at the meeting.Read any unbiased account of the war and you will know.

Btw Pak Army can launch a full fledged war and still wont be able to get Kashmir, let alone via a grab job like Kargil.


Ofcourse Pandits didnt die.All that is a myth.I am sure Sikandar Butshikan will be proud.
Click to expand...

Some pandits were driven out but Delhi grossly overestimates numbers and uses them as chamchas!

There are also pandits eg Nitasha Kaul who don't believe in merging with India!
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
Some pandits were driven out but Delhi grossly overestimates numbers and uses them as chamchas!

There are also pandits eg Nitasha Kaul who don't believe in merging with India!
Click to expand...

I am very aware who are the chamchas lining up at the Pakistan High Commision for alms.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Pakistan was winning the war?Lol.The pakistani pm is on record saying they were losing and so is the then US Presidential aide who was at the meeting.Read any unbiased account of the war and you will know.

Btw Pak Army can launch a full fledged war and still wont be able to get Kashmir, let alone via a grab job like Kargil.
Click to expand...

You need to control your itch of showcasing patriotism and thumping your chest at every given opportunity. I clearly mentioned in my post that i am not going to discuss whether Pakistan was winning the war or not. I just put forward a fact that Kashmiris believed they were winning. Whether it was true or not had nothing to do with my post.

Ofcourse Pandits didnt die.All that is a myth.I am sure Sikandar Butshikan will be proud.
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I dont see you beating your chests and wailing for innocent muslims who died in this conflict. But you would mention pandits at the drop of a hat just to gain leverage and malign the name of Kashmiri muslims. Pandits are ours and we are their's. You outsiders are the only reason why a lot of them have not come back to Kashmir because you keep using them while playing the Kashmir card at local or international level. Pandits coming back to Kashmir will be one more nail in the coffin for India's stance.
 
Madplayer said:
You outsiders are the only reason why a lot of them have not come back to Kashmir because you keep using them while playing the Kashmir card at local or international level.
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Playing Kashmir card at local and international level? Says someone who in this very thread was praising another fake "Kashmiri" in the UK who posted a picture of himself waving a Pakistani flag in front of a cricket stadium!!!

Irony just died a million times.

And to think that Pakistanis talk about keeping cricket and politics apart when they argue for India and Pak to start playing bilaterals. So when India refuses to host Pak, it's "let's keep politics and sport apart" but when a couple of "part time freedom fighters living in UK" choose to wave flags in front of a cricket stadium, it's alright!

Make up your mind!!!
 
cricketjoshila said:
Ofcourse you are free to live a life of happiness in UK.
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Free in Azad Kashmir. That's what I meant and you know it too.

English August said:
Playing Kashmir card at local and international level? Says someone who in this very thread was praising another fake "Kashmiri" in the UK who posted a picture of himself waving a Pakistani flag in front of a cricket stadium!!!

Irony just died a million times.

And to think that Pakistanis talk about keeping cricket and politics apart when they argue for India and Pak to start playing bilaterals. So when India refuses to host Pak, it's "let's keep politics and sport apart" but when a couple of "part time freedom fighters living in UK" choose to wave flags in front of a cricket stadium, it's alright!

Make up your mind!!!
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Who are you to tell me what a Kashmiri is and isn't? I'm from Azad Kashmiri and I'm a citizen there too.

Get your head around it- a lot of us in Azad Kashmir and valley want to be part of Pakistan.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
Free in Azad Kashmir. That's what I meant and you know it too.



Who are you to tell me what a Kashmiri is and isn't? I'm from Azad Kashmiri and I'm a citizen there too.

Get your head around it- a lot of us in Azad Kashmir and valley want to be part of Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Mate he's called you out as a fake Kashmiri living in the UK. He should know as a proud Indian....living in New York.
 
Syed1 said:
It is Azad Kashmir because it is Azad from Indian oppression and state sponsored rape and murder by a garbage terrorist country like India.
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Yet terrorists like OBL are found in Pakistan.Yet UN sanctioned terrorists are found roaming in Pakistan.

The Pakistani PM just blurted out what was already known, Pakistan wants to grab land and thats all.Supporting terrorists in the name of alleged freedom struggle they themselves dont believe in.No wonder no one takes the Pakistani narrative seriously.

Which is why people like you vent your frustration on this forum, that is all you are capable of.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
Free in Azad Kashmir. That's what I meant and you know it too.



Who are you to tell me what a Kashmiri is and isn't? I'm from Azad Kashmiri and I'm a citizen there too.

Get your head around it- a lot of us in Azad Kashmir and valley want to be part of Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Those who want to be in Pakistan can go to Pakistan.No one is stopping them.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Yet terrorists like OBL are found in Pakistan.Yet UN sanctioned terrorists are found roaming in Pakistan.

The Pakistani PM just blurted out what was already known, Pakistan wants to grab land and thats all.Supporting terrorists in the name of alleged freedom struggle they themselves dont believe in.No wonder no one takes the Pakistani narrative seriously.

Which is why people like you vent your frustration on this forum, that is all you are capable of.
Click to expand...

All part of Pakistan's deal with the US and it provided a real coup for Obama to cement Pakistan's long-standing partnership with America. Unfortunately that is now being threatened by Russia moving in and trying to win Pakistan from the US grasp.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
All part of Pakistan's deal with the US and it provided a real coup for Obama to cement Pakistan's long-standing partnership with America. Unfortunately that is now being threatened by Russia moving in and trying to win Pakistan from the US grasp.
Click to expand...

what was the deal?
 
Tusker said:
Wasnt OBL living there much before Obama was elected ?
Click to expand...

Obama was just the President at the time, it could easily have been a different person at the helm when the decision was made. US foreign policy isn't decided by one individual, there is a complex state machinery involved behind the scene.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Obama was just the President at the time, it could easily have been a different person at the helm when the decision was made. US foreign policy isn't decided by one individual, there is a complex state machinery involved behind the scene.
Click to expand...

So the full story behind how they went to extreme lengths to find out where he was living is fake? The doctor who helped the US find OBL (who was later arrested by Pakistan) is just a innocent bystander made scapegoat ?
 
Tusker said:
So the full story behind how they went to extreme lengths to find out where he was living is fake? The doctor who helped the US find OBL (who was later arrested by Pakistan) is just a innocent bystander made scapegoat ?
Click to expand...

The full story is useful in it's own right. How much of it is fake, or real is a matter we can speculate on until the cows come home. It certainly made for some fine Hollywood material and some of the details are being disputed even by the US marines since then. What we can agree on is that the US and Pakistan have continued to co-operate on military aims in the region and hence the relationship remains very much an ongoing one.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
The full story is useful in it's own right. How much of it is fake, or real is a matter we can speculate on until the cows come home. It certainly made for some fine Hollywood material and some of the details are being disputed even by the US marines since then. What we can agree on is that the US and Pakistan have continued to co-operate on military aims in the region and hence the relationship remains very much an ongoing one.
Click to expand...

Youre kidding right ?? I can't tell if you're actually saying this with a straight face or this is what you choose to believe because youre incredibly naive.

A) So Obl was not living in Pakistan, but US made this up...why ?
B) US carried out a secret operation within Pakistan that Pakistan govt didn't know about....Why would US make this up if they were buddies anyway ?
c) Why didn't US just ask Pakistan to hand him over if it was all madeup, would have been a more plausible story to make up ?
 
Snak3eye5 said:
Youre kidding right ?? I can't tell if you're actually saying this with a straight face or this is what you choose to believe because youre incredibly naive.

A) So Obl was not living in Pakistan, but US made this up...why ?
B) US carried out a secret operation within Pakistan that Pakistan govt didn't know about....Why would US make this up if they were buddies anyway ?
c) Why didn't US just ask Pakistan to hand him over if it was all madeup, would have been a more plausible story to make up ?
Click to expand...

I didn't say OBL wasn't living in Pakistan, my inference was that the story that is for public consumption isn't necessarily the whole story. I would have thought wikileaks would have shown people that much. I don't know who is being naive here. Your questions are really simplistic and easy to answer but we are going seriously off topic here. If you want to continue the discussion I would suggest starting a new thread or bumping an old one about OBL. This one was supposed to be about Kashmir independence after all.
 
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