If You Win Without Process, Does it Exist?

[unemployedgm]

On September 13, 2021, Rameez Raja became the Chairman of the PCB. On the same day he was appointed it was announced that Former Opening Batsman Matthew Hayden and Former Right Arm Seamer Vernon Philander will join Pakistan's Coaching Staff as Batting and Bowling Consultants respectively. The reason, "Matthew Hayden is Australian, and has experience of winning World Cups and was a great player himself. It might be very beneficial to have an Australian occupying the dressing room." Granted Matthew Hayden is one of the best openers of all time, surely his Australian-ness shouldn't qualify him to be a Batting Consultant or add value to Pakistan Cricket. Even if he were to add value, it would only be in the short-term. Certainly nothing sustainable or durable. Which brings me to my main point.

If You Win Without Process, Does it Exist? Pakistan has won 3 ICC Events. We won the ODI World Cup in 1992, the 2009 T20 World Cup, and the 2017 Champions Trophy. Although enjoyable success in these global competitions never led to something more sustainable. It can be argued that the 1999 World Cup Finalists and the 2007 T20 World Cup Finalists were better than the teams that actually won ICC Events. The inability or failure to build off Finalists appearances and outright success is indicative of successes devoid of process, structure, or methodology.

For example, Pakistan's first match of the 2009 T20 World Cup was against England. The opening bowlers for that game were Yasir Arafat and Mohammad Amir while the opening batsman were Ahmed Shehzad and Salman Butt. When Pakistan raised the trophy at Lords a few weeks later the opening bowlers were Mohammad Amir and Abdul Razzaq(the latter was not selected in the original squad. The opening batsman in the final were Kamran Akmal and Shahzaib Hasan(remember him). Pakistan's first game of the 2017 Champions Trophy was against India. Our top 3 bowlers were Amir, Hasan Ali, and Wahab Riaz with Ahmed Shehzad opening with Azhar Ali. By the time the final rolled around Fakhar Zaman was opening the batting for Pakistan and the bowling attack included Junaid Khan. Lets also not forget that it took rain out in 1992, a heroic and out of character performance by Afridi in 2009, and a dropped catch in 2017 for Pakistan to win those competitions. Of course that doesn't Pakistan didn't win those competitions. It does mean that at no point was Pakistan ever a great team.

Pakistan like any of its competitors has the ability and the potential to be a great team. But the pathway to being great or elite has never and will never come through Coaching Consultants, magnanimous statements, and charm. Rather, it requires the vigorous pursuit of Institution Building. Institutions are built on systems. Systems are built on processes. Processes are built on intellectual rigor. All of this is hard work!!! What can we do? We can hold people accountable!!!

 

[Rana]

On September 13, 2021, Rameez Raja became the Chairman of the PCB. On the same day he was appointed it was announced that Former Opening Batsman Matthew Hayden and Former Right Arm Seamer Vernon Philander will join Pakistan's Coaching Staff as Batting and Bowling Consultants respectively. The reason, "Matthew Hayden is Australian, and has experience of winning World Cups and was a great player himself. It might be very beneficial to have an Australian occupying the dressing room." Granted Matthew Hayden is one of the best openers of all time, surely his Australian-ness shouldn't qualify him to be a Batting Consultant or add value to Pakistan Cricket. Even if he were to add value, it would only be in the short-term. Certainly nothing sustainable or durable. Which brings me to my main point.

If You Win Without Process, Does it Exist? Pakistan has won 3 ICC Events. We won the ODI World Cup in 1992, the 2009 T20 World Cup, and the 2017 Champions Trophy. Although enjoyable success in these global competitions never led to something more sustainable. It can be argued that the 1999 World Cup Finalists and the 2007 T20 World Cup Finalists were better than the teams that actually won ICC Events. The inability or failure to build off Finalists appearances and outright success is indicative of successes devoid of process, structure, or methodology.

For example, Pakistan's first match of the 2009 T20 World Cup was against England. The opening bowlers for that game were Yasir Arafat and Mohammad Amir while the opening batsman were Ahmed Shehzad and Salman Butt. When Pakistan raised the trophy at Lords a few weeks later the opening bowlers were Mohammad Amir and Abdul Razzaq(the latter was not selected in the original squad. The opening batsman in the final were Kamran Akmal and Shahzaib Hasan(remember him). Pakistan's first game of the 2017 Champions Trophy was against India. Our top 3 bowlers were Amir, Hasan Ali, and Wahab Riaz with Ahmed Shehzad opening with Azhar Ali. By the time the final rolled around Fakhar Zaman was opening the batting for Pakistan and the bowling attack included Junaid Khan. Lets also not forget that it took rain out in 1992, a heroic and out of character performance by Afridi in 2009, and a dropped catch in 2017 for Pakistan to win those competitions. Of course that doesn't Pakistan didn't win those competitions. It does mean that at no point was Pakistan ever a great team.

Pakistan like any of its competitors has the ability and the potential to be a great team. But the pathway to being great or elite has never and will never come through Coaching Consultants, magnanimous statements, and charm. Rather, it requires the vigorous pursuit of Institution Building. Institutions are built on systems. Systems are built on processes. Processes are built on intellectual rigor. All of this is hard work!!! What can we do? We can hold people accountable!!!

I think you are overreacting here like [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] earlier


Everyone knows that we are not a great team even if we win the Word T20 due to one of those crazy runs of 3-4 crucial wins in a row. We also know that these consultants (huge names) will not transform us into world beaters. I think the current management have just been dealt a very heavy blow by the Misbah/Waqar resignation, and some of these moves are reactionary rather than pre planned.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph, Pakistan should have implemented this system after the 2015 World Cup, but they cut short Mickey’s tenure (which is understandable) however the next person to take over was a massive step backwards. I think the appointment of Misbah has stalled a lot of good groundwork that was taking place, and PCB would have liked him to go after the T20 World Cup but the man bottled it.

 

[Ashmal]

Process or no process, winning is what matters in the end and it can never be discounted.....just ask the SA team about this.

 

[Rana]

Process or no process, winning is what matters in the end and it can never be discounted.....just ask the SA team about this.

Now their process is out of the window too

 

[Rana]

One process can destroy another too

Look at how England keep producing the best white ball batsmen in the world, but how badly they are struggling to find proper quality Test match batsmen. The cupboard is so bare after Root, you can genuinely skittle them out for 150-200 every time you can get Root out early. No proper middle order batsmen coming through their system, no decent openers in their system.

 

[Ashmal]

Now their process is out of the window too

True.....I was referring to past SA teams

 

[unemployedgm]

I agree

 

[Titan24]

Worth watching his press conference which is on PCB’s YouTube channel. He has talked about systems and processes. Talked about club cricket, its pitches at that level as well as domestic level, school cricket, integration of school and club cricket and basics of coaching requiring improvement at that level etc.

Lets see how its implemented but, he has talked about the process and system.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

On September 13, 2021, Rameez Raja became the Chairman of the PCB. On the same day he was appointed it was announced that Former Opening Batsman Matthew Hayden and Former Right Arm Seamer Vernon Philander will join Pakistan's Coaching Staff as Batting and Bowling Consultants respectively. The reason, "Matthew Hayden is Australian, and has experience of winning World Cups and was a great player himself. It might be very beneficial to have an Australian occupying the dressing room." Granted Matthew Hayden is one of the best openers of all time, surely his Australian-ness shouldn't qualify him to be a Batting Consultant or add value to Pakistan Cricket. Even if he were to add value, it would only be in the short-term. Certainly nothing sustainable or durable. Which brings me to my main point.

If You Win Without Process, Does it Exist? Pakistan has won 3 ICC Events. We won the ODI World Cup in 1992, the 2009 T20 World Cup, and the 2017 Champions Trophy. Although enjoyable success in these global competitions never led to something more sustainable. It can be argued that the 1999 World Cup Finalists and the 2007 T20 World Cup Finalists were better than the teams that actually won ICC Events. The inability or failure to build off Finalists appearances and outright success is indicative of successes devoid of process, structure, or methodology.

For example, Pakistan's first match of the 2009 T20 World Cup was against England. The opening bowlers for that game were Yasir Arafat and Mohammad Amir while the opening batsman were Ahmed Shehzad and Salman Butt. When Pakistan raised the trophy at Lords a few weeks later the opening bowlers were Mohammad Amir and Abdul Razzaq(the latter was not selected in the original squad. The opening batsman in the final were Kamran Akmal and Shahzaib Hasan(remember him). Pakistan's first game of the 2017 Champions Trophy was against India. Our top 3 bowlers were Amir, Hasan Ali, and Wahab Riaz with Ahmed Shehzad opening with Azhar Ali. By the time the final rolled around Fakhar Zaman was opening the batting for Pakistan and the bowling attack included Junaid Khan. Lets also not forget that it took rain out in 1992, a heroic and out of character performance by Afridi in 2009, and a dropped catch in 2017 for Pakistan to win those competitions. Of course that doesn't Pakistan didn't win those competitions. It does mean that at no point was Pakistan ever a great team.

Pakistan like any of its competitors has the ability and the potential to be a great team. But the pathway to being great or elite has never and will never come through Coaching Consultants, magnanimous statements, and charm. Rather, it requires the vigorous pursuit of Institution Building. Institutions are built on systems. Systems are built on processes. Processes are built on intellectual rigor. All of this is hard work!!! What can we do? We can hold people accountable!!!

Couple of answers.

And I will start from the bottom of your post.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel (and we don't have "intellectual rigor" anyway), we already know what processes work? We have tons of examples from all over the world.

And we also know that it ALL starts with a systemized and well organized school cricket in-place. Something that is totally depleted from Pakistan now.

But then we also have something that trumps EVERYTHING right here ... and that is, "rampant corruption".

During my college years when I represented all Pakistan college 11 vs all Sri Lanka College 11 in an international game, I remember the professor in-charge of sports, hardly ever spent Rs 100 to organize anything sports related.

When I got selected to represent Pakistan, he called me into his office, and opened a drawer where he had a cheap cricket bat sitting (for the last 5 years, I guess), and gave it to me as a reward.

That piece of plank had no use for me. But he had to purchase this as an evidence to prove that sports funds are well spent. Otherwise, every year a large purchase was made, receipts were submitted, funds were collected and merchandize was never delivered. And some little "chai pani" was given to the vendor, and to the inspector or auditor who would EVER visit our college to audit the books.

This is just a tip of the iceberg and it happens at every institutional level setting.
Our schools, our colleges, our universities, PCB regional offices etc, are full of such people in charge.

If you reduce the corruption to minimum, thing will automatically change.

I wrote a post about it a couple months ago to give an idea of what kinda challenges many talented youngsters face.

Here, give it a read.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...t-of-cricket-in-Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa&highlight=



To your second part.
Pakistan won 3 ICC events.
But you didn't tell us, Out of how many?"

And if you do that math, you will notice that this success graph is almost negligible.

Fact of the matter is, we were hardly ever favorites for any ICC event.

We had a great team in '99 but we lost that to, again, what? an alleged and dubious case of dishonesty and corruption by none other than Wasim Akram himself.

And this leads us to your final question.

If You Win Without Process, Does it Exist?

The right question is, "If you ALWAYS win without a process, does it exist?
The answer then obviously is, No.

It hardly matters if you have a process or not.

Every positive effort is trumped by corruption. Every process in-place is trumped by corruption. Every quality control is trumped by corruption.

This filth is deeply hard wired into the DNA of majority of people, unfortunately.

So what to do as an immediate fix to put a bandage on the wound without having time to fix the deeply rooted cause of infection?

We currently have team that has set in stone mindset, and set in stone background. This is the final product of whatever system or the lack of it, we have in-place now. And even though, I will give it a chance to Philander and Hayden on their face value, here is what I recommended to deal with this situation in the following thread.

We do not, and I repeat, we do NOT need a full time bowling coach to begin with.

(A good foreign coach most like won't come to Pakistan anyway. edit: 'and if he does, it will be great')

Starting with pace bowling coach. There are two names: Tim MaCaskill from Australia and Mike Watkinson from Lancashire.

(I hope Wasim Khan reads it, if not, @Saj, plz forward this to him).

What we need to do is to contact Cricket Australia and ECB with a begging plea to save Pakistan cricket, by letting us hire Tim MaCaskill and Mike Watkinson on short term contractual basis where either they can visit and run a two to three weeks training and reconditioning camp in UAE, or selected Pakistani pace bowlers should visit Australia and England to train under them for 2 to 3 weeks twice a year.

Whatever these bowlers learn from Tim and Mike, they MUST coach the same skills to youngsters in domestic cricket academy. If a bowler fails to pass on the newly learned skills to a youngster, it should be held against him during the national selection process.

If we spend money on our guys, then we must get the most out of it.


And for batting coach, we will need the same. No full time batting coach.

Someone from Ranjhi trophy circles (if he can risk his life from the wrath of RSS/BJP radicals) to meet Pak batsmen in UAE for two to three weeks training and reconditioning camps? These coaches from Ranjhi trophy should take our national team batsmen as elementary school kids and start their training from the scratch. This will basically mean to begin with, "How to hold a bat?"

Trust me, we've got it all wrong. Our batting culture, our batting style, our approach to batting, our foot work, our bat speed, our back-lift, our stance, our head position, our running between the wickets, our ability to pierce the gaps, EVERYTHING needs to be scrapped off.

We need to get the basics right. The problem is, we don't know what exactly is "right"? And for that, we need a good basic level Indian batting coach.

And then again, whatever we learn from batting coach, MUST be passed on to the youngsters in our domestic cricket academy.

We do NOT have super genius kind of a naturally gifted talent type players in the team, so we need to train the lot properly and push them to learn it by hard work with the right focus and determination. And it can be done if we believe in it.

Hard work almost always trumps talent.​

And finally, the pink elephant in the room, Wasim Akram.

As we all know, Wasim was a naturally gifted bowler, he doesn't know all the factors that make the ball swing. And hence he cannot teach it to anyone else.
He did not learn a whole lot on how to swing, and hence he can't teach it to anyone.
If you don't trust me, go watch 100's of his coaching videos on youtube. 100 of bowlers have tried it all but they can't swing like Wasim.

One thing; however, that Wasim DID learn under Imran Khan's wings is to build the team strategy. How to read the weak and strong links in the opposition team, what to expect from whom and how to counter attack? Wasim is a master of that.

And hence, Wasim Akram should be the appointed as the team manager/Think Tank/Strategist.

Wasim himself is on the record stating that he wants this kind of job more than being a coach.
We need to get this out of our heads, and firmly believe that Wasim Akram is NOT a good coach but he is definitely someone who can out-fox the opposition in strategy building. Being a pacer, he is naturally aggressive and wants to keep attacking wisely. And that's what we need.

And PUUUHHHLLLEEEEAAAASSSEEEEE ... Keep Misbah and Waqar 100 miles away from the team. For Goodness sake, enough is enough !

 

[unemployedgm]

Worth watching his press conference which is on PCB’s YouTube channel. He has talked about systems and processes. Talked about club cricket, its pitches at that level as well as domestic level, school cricket, integration of school and club cricket and basics of coaching requiring improvement at that level etc.

Lets see how its implemented but, he has talked about the process and system.

I saw it. By which process does the Chairman of Select the National Team? By which process exists the role of a batting and bowling consultant? If they do exist what is their job function? Is it as simple as “play aggressive cricket” or is there more depth to that statement? As mentioned the reasons given for the appointment of both consultants seems non-existent. Even the 100k increase to domestic players seems harried. The increase is a good thing, I personally think it should be more but did that number come to fruition after checking the Boards balance sheet. Should that number be lower or higher? If so based off what? What is a living wage for a modern cricketer? What about health insurance? Career planning? How about a 401k?

Some of these actions seem ad-hoc. We’ve seen ad-hoc. It never leads to anything durable.

 

[Itachi]

A "process" needs feedback from different parts of the system which will work together in conjunction to yield results.

The Pakistani players have too much ego on professional level that it will always prevent the system to work with full potential.

And since it's a problem that roots back to senior culture and deeply ingrained, Pakistan can not come out of it since the new generations themselves showing the similar symptoms as their older counter parts.

So all these talks about system, process goes out of the window when you have above factors in the first place.

 

[Titan24]

I saw it. By which process does the Chairman of Select the National Team? By which process exists the role of a batting and bowling consultant? If they do exist what is their job function? Is it as simple as “play aggressive cricket” or is there more depth to that statement? As mentioned the reasons given for the appointment of both consultants seems non-existent. Even the 100k increase to domestic players seems harried. The increase is a good thing, I personally think it should be more but did that number come to fruition after checking the Boards balance sheet. Should that number be lower or higher? If so based off what? What is a living wage for a modern cricketer? What about health insurance? Career planning? How about a 401k?

Some of these actions seem ad-hoc. We’ve seen ad-hoc. It never leads to anything durable.

There is no confirmed news that Ramiz selected the squad, these are just rumours as of now so we cant really base an argument upon that.

Thing is there is always going to be bit of an ad hoc whenever a new administrator comes in any board. Systems need to be formed surely but, system doesn’t mean being robotic where everything automatically happens based upon some fixed criteria as even systems have individuals involved and naturally individuals can have different ways to go about things.

However, yes systems define the domain, range, direction and overall focus, how a different set of individuals would like to carry on in a direction can vary, same is the case with most organizations whenever the leadership changes. Systems need to be formed at grass root level as well as organizational level where even when the individuals change the direction is still clear and then new person can carry on in the same direction with his own way to go about it.

So yes I agree that to have sustainable success you need systems but, systems are not to be confused with something which will be robotic and will keep same style in the way it carries out its functions but, in my opinion would rather mean the direction and main goal remains constant while individuals can carry on towards that in their varying styles.

A well defined grass root cricket structure in which clubs, schools and regions know their ultimate aim along with the PCB’s organizational structure, responsibility and direction is something which can be established and can remain constant, if that is done a sustainable success can be achieved so this should be the focus. Slight variations and ad hocs will remain there as different individuals can have varying styles but a system would mean that would fall under a well defined integrated universe.

 

[Titan24]

A "process" needs feedback from different parts of the system which will work together in conjunction to yield results.

The Pakistani players have too much ego on professional level that it will always prevent the system to work with full potential.

And since it's a problem that roots back to senior culture and deeply ingrained, Pakistan can not come out of it since the new generations themselves showing the similar symptoms as their older counter parts.

So all these talks about system, process goes out of the window when you have above factors in the first place.

I agree with what you are saying however, if a system is properly set in place than that would mean its much bigger and stronger than any individual. So in that scenario the individuals (the cricketers as you mentioned) will have to adjust and adapt as per the system to enter that. Yes if the system is vague as it has been for sometime or non existent than it can bend or break as per the individuals involved.

 

[unemployedgm]

I think we agree. No one is advocating for a robotic approach to management. Human judgement is important, but getting to that judgement requires structure.

I think clubs, schools, and regions are great talking points or have been in the past. For example, Pakistan’s has a multilateral education system. How would you organize Schools Cricket in a city like Karachi where there is a combination of elite private schools, public schools, and for profit private schools. The latter two don’t have the infrastructure and most likely the finance to have sports teams. That said, my knowledge of schools cricket in Pakistan is weak.

I would say the same about clubs. In theory club cricket has a significant role to play in the sustenance of the game. But club cricket in Pakistan today is convoluted and corrupt. The previous board tried to tackle the issue, but there doesn’t seem to be any feedback loop in the system.

What’s the answer? In a country like Pakistan the answer is probably a top down system. For me that starts with our cities rather than our regions.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I think we agree. No one is advocating for a robotic approach to management. Human judgement is important, but getting to that judgement requires structure.

I think clubs, schools, and regions are great talking points or have been in the past. For example, Pakistan’s has a multilateral education system. How would you organize Schools Cricket in a city like Karachi where there is a combination of elite private schools, public schools, and for profit private schools. The latter two don’t have the infrastructure and most likely the finance to have sports teams. That said, my knowledge of schools cricket in Pakistan is weak.

I would say the same about clubs. In theory club cricket has a significant role to play in the sustenance of the game. But club cricket in Pakistan today is convoluted and corrupt. The previous board tried to tackle the issue, but there doesn’t seem to be any feedback loop in the system.

What’s the answer? In a country like Pakistan the answer is probably a top down system. For me that starts with our cities rather than our regions.

Only theories, and wishful thinking that sounds good in the books. Sorry to say that.

The ground realities, practical approach and it’s implementation is totally different.

We are talking about how to grow the best looking and best smelling roses without taking into consideration that instead of clean soil, we will sow the seed in a trash pile.

 

[unemployedgm]

Only theories, and wishful thinking that sounds good in the books. Sorry to say that.

The ground realities, practical approach and it’s implementation is totally different.

We are talking about how to grow the best looking and best smelling roses without taking into consideration that instead of clean soil, we will sow the seed in a trash pile.

What is the practical approach?

 

[unemployedgm]

Couple of answers.

And I will start from the bottom of your post.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel (and we don't have "intellectual rigor" anyway), we already know what processes work? We have tons of examples from all over the world.

And we also know that it ALL starts with a systemized and well organized school cricket in-place. Something that is totally depleted from Pakistan now.

But then we also have something that trumps EVERYTHING right here ... and that is, "rampant corruption".

During my college years when I represented all Pakistan college 11 vs all Sri Lanka College 11 in an international game, I remember the professor in-charge of sports, hardly ever spent Rs 100 to organize anything sports related.

When I got selected to represent Pakistan, he called me into his office, and opened a drawer where he had a cheap cricket bat sitting (for the last 5 years, I guess), and gave it to me as a reward.

That piece of plank had no use for me. But he had to purchase this as an evidence to prove that sports funds are well spent. Otherwise, every year a large purchase was made, receipts were submitted, funds were collected and merchandize was never delivered. And some little "chai pani" was given to the vendor, and to the inspector or auditor who would EVER visit our college to audit the books.

This is just a tip of the iceberg and it happens at every institutional level setting.
Our schools, our colleges, our universities, PCB regional offices etc, are full of such people in charge.

If you reduce the corruption to minimum, thing will automatically change.

I wrote a post about it a couple months ago to give an idea of what kinda challenges many talented youngsters face.

Here, give it a read.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...t-of-cricket-in-Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa&highlight=



To your second part.
Pakistan won 3 ICC events.
But you didn't tell us, Out of how many?"

And if you do that math, you will notice that this success graph is almost negligible.

Fact of the matter is, we were hardly ever favorites for any ICC event.

We had a great team in '99 but we lost that to, again, what? an alleged and dubious case of dishonesty and corruption by none other than Wasim Akram himself.

And this leads us to your final question.

If You Win Without Process, Does it Exist?

The right question is, "If you ALWAYS win without a process, does it exist?
The answer then obviously is, No.

It hardly matters if you have a process or not.

Every positive effort is trumped by corruption. Every process in-place is trumped by corruption. Every quality control is trumped by corruption.

This filth is deeply hard wired into the DNA of majority of people, unfortunately.

So what to do as an immediate fix to put a bandage on the wound without having time to fix the deeply rooted cause of infection?

We currently have team that has set in stone mindset, and set in stone background. This is the final product of whatever system or the lack of it, we have in-place now. And even though, I will give it a chance to Philander and Hayden on their face value, here is what I recommended to deal with this situation in the following thread.

What makes Tim and Mike good coaches? Secondly you make some really good points, but why the emphasis on conditioning camps? Are 2 to 3 weeks enough to improve or develop a cricketer? Should this be done at the expense of competitive cricket?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No. And that's often the problem with Pakistan winning. People mistake it for the presence of an actual process being in-place. There is none.

This is why we cling onto specific coaches and players. And why new players look like fish out of water when they first play for Pakistan. Something that isn't the case for the England, NZ, India, even Australia as we have seen in the last year.

Problem is people think winning is all that matters. But simply winning is not enough. You have to win consistently. And you cannot win consistently if you do not have a proper process in-place.

For a process to be in-place you need vision and long-term thinking, besides obviously, money. Unfortunately PCB don't have the first two, and not enough of the third one.

 

[someone21]

Cricket itself is under bad processing, so why worry about Pakistan cricket? It is no different.

The sport is struggling, with weak youth development, young players lacking motivation to continue to work hard.

Today, it's all about present time, and enjoying the wins. Forget the direction or process. See WI T20 win, it was great for them even today despite it led to no long term direction........

 

[mastimasti]

Pakistan like any of its competitors has the ability and the potential to be a great team. But the pathway to being great or elite has never and will never come through Coaching Consultants, magnanimous statements, and charm. Rather, it requires the vigorous pursuit of Institution Building. Institutions are built on systems. Systems are built on processes. Processes are built on intellectual rigor. All of this is hard work!!! What can we do? We can hold people accountable!!!

This paragraph is extremely contradictory.

 

[unemployedgm]

Explain

 

[unemployedgm]

Cricket itself is under bad processing, so why worry about Pakistan cricket? It is no different.

The sport is struggling, with weak youth development, young players lacking motivation to continue to work hard.

Today, it's all about present time, and enjoying the wins. Forget the direction or process. See WI T20 win, it was great for them even today despite it led to no long term direction........

This is a great post. Pakistan's problems are not dissimilar to the problems rampant throughout the game. Therein lies the opportunity.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think there should be a balance between process and flexibility.

South Africa, for many years, focused too much on process. Did that give them any title? Answer is no.

In ICC events, you don't need much process. You need to hold your nerves and win those crucial moments. That's exactly what Pakistan did during World Cup 1992, 2009 World T20, and CT 2017.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

What makes Tim and Mike good coaches? Secondly you make some really good points, but why the emphasis on conditioning camps? Are 2 to 3 weeks enough to improve or develop a cricketer? Should this be done at the expense of competitive cricket?

Tim is a certified level 3 coach with track record and a solid experience of making a difference.
Tim produced many Australian pacers. A genuinely high level professional bowling coach.

And Mike to Jimmy Anderson is what John Snow was to Imran Khan.

Mike reshaped the career of Anderson just as John did to Imran.

I am against the hiring of a full time coach for two basic reasons.

First, I will call it OVER coaching.
Second, the coaches can't really teach a whole lot to international level players.

These players (specially the Pak ones) have very limited room to listen and act upon the coach's advice. And we must give them just the right thing that they can absorb and deliver on it within their limited capacity.

A fulltime coach continuously keeps on giving advice and suggestions, and in this plethora of lectures, there might be that one thing that the player actually needs but the player may just bot be able to identify and pick that needle in the hay stack.

We need to give these player the shortest but the most correct coaching advice. And we don't need a full time coach for that.

Too much coaching backfires. There are many, many incidences where we overthought the game plan and over coached the players.

Plus, great players hardly ever needed the support of a 24/7 coaching advice.

A 2 to 3 weeks re-conditioning camp every six odd months is just ideal for our players. We can't change much in this final product of our domestic cricket. But whatever little change we can make in them, it has to be the right one and the precise one.

What our players do need; however, is a full time fitness coach because most of these players need a "danda" like a lost herd of sheep, to stay on the right track.

They are not even the shoe dust of players like Kohli when it comes to following an exemplary fitness routine on their own, and without the stick of a fitness coach hanging on his head.

If we leave our players to look after their fitness on their own, many will turn into Humpty Dumpties within 6 months due to their incontrollable craving of Paratha and Biryani.

 

[unemployedgm]

I think you make some good points.

I do think that coaching is different from advice. We seem to be stuck in a cycle of advice and tips. I do agree there is overcoaching in cricket and usually the messengers are quite frankly underwhelming.

 

[unemployedgm]

I think there should be a balance between process and flexibility.

South Africa, for many years, focused too much on process. Did that give them any title? Answer is no.

In ICC events, you don't need much process. You need to hold your nerves and win those crucial moments. That's exactly what Pakistan did during World Cup 1992, 2009 World T20, and CT 2017.

Don't conflate process and flexibility. Any good process has flexibility within it.

 

[drubwrubnat]

Interesting post,
Of course you could win without a process, a win can be had if you have a plan, or if you have character, or even randomness.

But when you have a process, you have to follow rules. When you write the rules, there has to be REASON. There has to be a line between whats right & whats wrong. Between what works & what doesnt. Therefore I personally think the outcome - winning or losing, depends mostly on the process. A good process quantifies as well as qualifies.