Immigrants and handouts... Don't the elderly here live off handouts?

[shaykh]

Should pensions be lowered?... Unfortunately with an old electorate it would be political suicide for such a position to be suggested...

A lot of arguments made about immigrants is about their contributions... And the idea that your worth is determined by your ability to contribute... Thus immigrants who have skills etc... Vs those who don't...

If we are to take such a utilitarian approach then do the older sectors contribute enough?...

Now obviously the argument about pensions is that these people have paid their national insurance and are thus 'entitled' to state contributions... Ie handouts...

But frankly they take a lot more than they have contributed...

Let's say you earn 2000 a month...you pay around 120 a month in NI... So you work for 40 years and have thus paid 57000 in NI contributions...

With a pension of 165 a week you've been paid 76, 000 within 10 years...

If you live till you are 90 then you are paid 190,000 by the state...

This isn't taking into account their free bus passes, TV licenses, winter fuel payments and free prescriptions...

Therefore they are paid significantly more than they put in...

So do we increase NI or lower pensions?... Or just accept that humans shouldn't simply be judged from a utilitarian perspective?...

 

[KingKhanWC]

No they should be higher because most don’t live until 90 and the current amount just covers the bills . It’s not the amount of NI contributions but the work they have put in over years to build the country .

 

[JaDed]

Inflation is being discounted massively here, the government could had used the tax money for bonds investment etc, that is worth a lot , you need to do a thorough calculation but yes baby boomers have somewhat ruined the system and expect everyone to pay for their expense in Western countries, trying not to rant.

 

[sjahmed23]

It's an interesting proposition. In US we have social security which is massively underfunded and with the amount of people retiring there may not be any left over when people my generation retire. The money has to come from somewhere but where? Should the property of old people be confiscated after they pass to offset the costs?

 

[JaDed]

It's an interesting proposition. In US we have social security which is massively underfunded and with the amount of people retiring there may not be any left over when people my generation retire. The money has to come from somewhere but where? Should the property of old people be confiscated after they pass to offset the costs?

There was a recent skit on this as well on SNL ,about baby boomers vs Millennials ,they take.pot shots at both lol.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Don't need to throw another vulnerable group of people under the bus.

 

[CricketDon]

Massive difference. Economical and patriotic.

The elders were born here. Went to school here. Paid taxes and NI. Put money into local businesses and essentially pushed the wheel that is the economic cycle. They spent their lives here working and contributing. They pledged their allegiance here.


While a low skilled no education immigrant just leeches of the system and the benefits. Probably sends money back home and undeclared assets back home. Could up and leave at any time.


This is why the brexit is happening. We need to stay in the single market but stop free movement. We need a points based system like Australia.

 

[ElRaja]

But frankly they take a lot more than they have contributed...

Let's say you earn 2000 a month...you pay around 120 a month in NI... So you work for 40 years and have thus paid 57000 in NI contributions...

With a pension of 165 a week you've been paid 76, 000 within 10 years...

If you live till you are 90 then you are paid 190,000 by the state...

This isn't taking into account their free bus passes, TV licenses, winter fuel payments and free prescriptions...

Therefore they are paid significantly more than they put in...

So do we increase NI or lower pensions?... Or just accept that humans shouldn't simply be judged from a utilitarian perspective?...

very over simplified calculation... firstly average salary in uk is abt 28000, which means annual NI contribution of about £2400, which equals about 96000 over 40 years.

secondly you are assuming the avereage british salary is representative of the average salary earned over a career which are two different things, the greater skew of younger people in the work force will push the current average salary below the average salary you would earn over a career.

i think you can easily say, conservatively a contribution of 100,000 would be fairly representative of the average worked.

given the average citizen lives till about 80 thats 15 years of pension (although people continue to work past 60 and contribute other taxes) which lo and behold equates to about 115,000.

all these numbers have considerable overlap accounting for margins of error, so i think even before we go into the the morality of the state reneging on its pledge to support you in old age, after deducting your income in lieu of that over a lifetime, your maths makes the argument fairly a non starter.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Let’s legalise euthanasia instead