In India, caste still defines who cleans cities - NAMASTE scheme

[KingKhanWC]

In India, caste still defines who cleans cities – DW – 07/22/2025

People from the lower rungs of India's strict social hierarchy say they're trapped doing jobs like cleaning sewers because of historical discrimination.

www.dw.com

"The government refuses to acknowledge the social reality that India is fundamentally a caste-based society," said Bezwada Wilson from Safai Karmachari Andolan, a advocacy group in India seeking an end to manual scavenging. "

When will the Dalits be treated as human beings in India?

@Rajdeep @Devadwal @Champ_Pal @Hitman What is the Namaste scheme and has it helped these lower class lesser humans in any waY?

 

[sweep_shot]

The caste system is very disgusting. Can't believe people in 21st century still participate in this.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The caste system is very disgusting. Can't believe people in 21st century still participate in this.

The very idea a human can be born as a less human than others is very wrong indeed.

It seems Modi/BJP have set up this Namaste scheme to ensure these Dalit who the majority of street cleaners are given safety equipment but imo this seems some move to ensure these people remain at the lowest level in society. @Bhaag Viru Bhaag any idea on this ? Is it benefiting those people.

 

[The_KING]

Caste system has no place in modern society. Sadly, because Pakistan used to be a part of India, some elderly folks in Pakistan also believe in the caste system. I have to remind them that there is no place for such an abhorrent belief in Islam.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Caste system has no place in modern society. Sadly, because Pakistan used to be a part of India, some elderly folks in Pakistan also believe in the caste system. I have to remind them that there is no place for such an abhorrent belief in Islam.

Agree.

I think the difference is any Muslim can walk into any mosque in Pakistan. While in India, Hindu Dalits cannot walk into any temple they choose. Islam came to end such discrimination.

I also think some who worship certain gods are seen less than some who worship other gods. Believing in only 1 God , ends this too.

 

[The_KING]

Agree.

I think the difference is any Muslim can walk into any mosque in Pakistan. While in India, Hindu Dalits cannot walk into any temple they choose. Islam came to end such discrimination.

I also think some who worship certain gods are seen less than some who worship other gods. Believing in only 1 God , ends this too.

Islam has a solution for everything.

 

[Champ_Pal]

In India, caste still defines who cleans cities – DW – 07/22/2025

People from the lower rungs of India's strict social hierarchy say they're trapped doing jobs like cleaning sewers because of historical discrimination.

www.dw.com

"The government refuses to acknowledge the social reality that India is fundamentally a caste-based society," said Bezwada Wilson from Safai Karmachari Andolan, a advocacy group in India seeking an end to manual scavenging. "

When will the Dalits be treated as human beings in India?

@Rajdeep @Devadwal @Champ_Pal @Hitman What is the Namaste scheme and has it helped these lower class lesser humans in any waY?

People who lack in education due to various reasons end up doing menial jobs. Nothing to do with Caste. It is part of government job and job is secured and they get pension when they are old.

Dalits have traditionally been marginalized and we will find disproportionate number of them who are uneducated or does not have the credentials to get better jobs.

Dalits have reservations and many have climbed up the economic ladder. They form 30% of the India's population which means there are close to 40 crores of them. It is impossible to pull all of them from their poverty and backwardness. The problem is, rich Dalits still use the reservations to get into prestigious universities and government jobs while the poor ones never. No political party has the will to talk about it. If they talk about it, they will be categorized as Manuwadi(proponents of Manu Smriti) and cantiest who are jealous of Dalits and want to oppress them.

While it is true that many Dalits end up doing cleaning jobs, there are also many upper caste people also cleaning toilets. They are all government jobs. No one is forcing them to clean toilets. They take up those cleaning jobs because of poor upbringing or lack of opportunities when they were kids.

Do we have to feel sorry for people cleaning toilets? Sure. But at least they have a job and feed themselves. Better than begging and they earn their livelihood with dignity. Nothing is worse than begging on the streets and at crossroads.

 

[Theanonymousone]

Agree.

I think the difference is any Muslim can walk into any mosque in Pakistan. While in India, Hindu Dalits cannot walk into any temple they choose. Islam came to end such discrimination.

I also think some who worship certain gods are seen less than some who worship other gods. Believing in only 1 God , ends this too.

I will try to give a serious response

People long long ago fought on worshipping God Shiva and God Vishnu. Its similar to Shia vs Sunni muslims in the present or Christians vs Muslims per say. The clash is on who is the last prophet and whose word is the final ‘Word of God’.

There is no discrimination on worshipping one gods is superior to others.

And Dalits not entering temples was created by humans and not religion. Anyone can enter any temple and no one asks the caste. ‘Tirupathi’ receives more than 1L devotees and no one checks their caste.

Caste discrimination was a reality and things changed for better now I would say.

 

[sweep_shot]

The very idea a human can be born as a less human than others is very wrong indeed.

It seems Modi/BJP have set up this Namaste scheme to ensure these Dalit who the majority of street cleaners are given safety equipment but imo this seems some move to ensure these people remain at the lowest level in society. @Bhaag Viru Bhaag any idea on this ? Is it benefiting those people.

Yes. It is deeply disturbing and is just wrong.

I have never seen any sanghi poster condemning it. Maybe they approve of this racism.

 

[KingKhanWC]

People who lack in education due to various reasons end up doing menial jobs. Nothing to do with Caste. It is part of government job and job is secured and they get pension when they are old.

Dalits have traditionally been marginalized and we will find disproportionate number of them who are uneducated or does not have the credentials to get better jobs.

Dalits have reservations and many have climbed up the economic ladder. They form 30% of the India's population which means there are close to 40 crores of them. It is impossible to pull all of them from their poverty and backwardness. The problem is, rich Dalits still use the reservations to get into prestigious universities and government jobs while the poor ones never. No political party has the will to talk about it. If they talk about it, they will be categorized as Manuwadi(proponents of Manu Smriti) and cantiest who are jealous of Dalits and want to oppress them.

While it is true that many Dalits end up doing cleaning jobs, there are also many upper caste people also cleaning toilets. They are all government jobs. No one is forcing them to clean toilets. They take up those cleaning jobs because of poor upbringing or lack of opportunities when they were kids.

Do we have to feel sorry for people cleaning toilets? Sure. But at least they have a job and feed themselves. Better than begging and they earn their livelihood with dignity. Nothing is worse than begging on the streets and at crossroads.

Appreciate the reply.

The bold part is the key here. Because they are Dalits they are discriminated against from birth, giving them less opportunity to become successful or for their families to eventually get out of poverty. Of course there will be some amongst so many who are doing well now. In General they are still seen as sub humans even by their own faith

 

[Varun]

Pretty interesting that Pakistan who used to be part of our land not long ago have got rid of the caste system but we're still rolling in it.

How did they manage it?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I will try to give a serious response

People long long ago fought on worshipping God Shiva and God Vishnu. Its similar to Shia vs Sunni muslims in the present or Christians vs Muslims per say. The clash is on who is the last prophet and whose word is the final ‘Word of God’.

There is no discrimination on worshipping one gods is superior to others.

And Dalits not entering temples was created by humans and not religion. Anyone can enter any temple and no one asks the caste. ‘Tirupathi’ receives more than 1L devotees and no one checks their caste.

Caste discrimination was a reality and things changed for better now I would say.

Many locals temples know who is a dalit, hence they are named as untouchables. There have been various protests by them over the years demanding this discrimination stop. You can find many news reports on this every year. Shias and Sunnis pray together in Mecca and can walk into any mosque if their denomination mosque is not nearby. What is the link between Dalits and Shiva or Vishnu?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Appreciate the reply.

The bold part is the key here. Because they are Dalits they are discriminated against from birth, giving them less opportunity to become successful or for their families to eventually get out of poverty. Of course there will be some amongst so many who are doing well now. In General they are still seen as sub humans even by their own faith

This post may have been true a century ago. Now Dalits have reservation. They get the Jobs and free seats in universities even if they barely qualify in the exams. All because they born as Dalits.

Reservations should be based on economic status. Not caste. But no political party will have the guts to do that. They will not want to be called casteist and more than anything, they do not want to lose Dalit vote bank.

Dalits being treated as subhuman? Try doing that in India and see what happens. Try calling them a Dalit slur and you can go to prison. Laws are pretty strict against caste based discrimination in India and more so with Dalits. Sure the discrimination happens in some villages or remote areas. I can tell you no one calls Dalit slurs openly unless they want to go to jail. But lampooning Upper caste is done openly. Kind of like you can make jokes on White people in US. But the moment you make a joke on black people, you will be branded racist.

Education is the key for the upliftment of any community. If a person is not educated and not from a rich family, there is a good chance he/she will end up doing low paying job or worse a menial job. Caste does not matter.

Unfortunately caste does matter when it comes to marriages. Especially arranged marriages. There are many low caste and dalit guys married to upper caste women and vice versa in love marriages. They have become common in cities. I am sure in villages, it will be a rare occurrence.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This post may have been true a century ago. Now Dalits have reservation. They get the Jobs and free seats in universities even if they barely qualify in the exams. All because they born as Dalits.

Reservations should be based on economic status. Not caste. But no political party will have the guts to do that. They will not want to be called casteist and more than anything, they do not want to lose Dalit vote bank.

Dalits being treated as subhuman? Try doing that in India and see what happens. Try calling them a Dalit slur and you can go to prison. Laws are pretty strict against caste based discrimination in India and more so with Dalits. Sure the discrimination happens in some villages or remote areas. I can tell you no one calls Dalit slurs openly unless they want to go to jail. But lampooning Upper caste is done openly. Kind of like you can make jokes on White people in US. But the moment you make a joke on black people, you will be branded racist.

Education is the key for the upliftment of any community. If a person is not educated and not from a rich family, there is a good chance he/she will end up doing low paying job or worse a menial job. Caste does not matter.

Unfortunately caste does matter when it comes to marriages. Especially arranged marriages. There are many low caste and dalit guys married to upper caste women and vice versa in love marriages. They have become common in cities. I am sure in villages, it will be a rare occurrence.

If what you say is true , this is good news. I still see various stories popping up on the news so will hold reservation atm but thanks for a detailed answer.

 

[Theanonymousone]

Many locals temples know who is a dalit, hence they are named as untouchables. There have been various protests by them over the years demanding this discrimination stop. You can find many news reports on this every year. Shias and Sunnis pray together in Mecca and can walk into any mosque if their denomination mosque is not nearby. What is the link between Dalits and Shiva or Vishnu?

There no link between gods and this social class system in Hindu literature. Everyone is born from the body of gods and the social class system is based on skills.

The untouchables thing was created by those in power for greed. Its nothing more than kings ruling and looking down on people or servants. Dalits are considered as servants by people in Power.

It has been a major issue particularly during British rule as power was accumulated due to the divide and rule policies. Zamindars / Few castes held lot of power and were appeased by Britishers while others suffered.

The Hindu social class - Shudra has the largest population ideally. Infact, most of the people in the power right now including landlords etc will be Shudras if you follow religious literature.

Dalit concept is created by people and banning them from temples is also done by the same people.

Now, SC/ST Act is there to protect against any discrimination.

https://www.indiacode.nic.in/bitstream/123456789/15338/1/scheduled_castes_and_the_scheduled_tribes.pdf

The reservations in India for SC/ST is so high that, most just need to attend the exam to qualify it.

 

[HalBass9]

Like in Pakistan, Christians in some regions are commonly employed in gutter cleaning jobs due to social and economic marginalization

 

[Major]

Pretty interesting that Pakistan who used to be part of our land not long ago have got rid of the caste system but we're still rolling in it.

How did they manage it?

I dont know how the Hindu caste system work, but the caste system in the Pakistan side was based upon the jobs they did.

Correct me if it was same in Hinduism aswell, but in general, the cast system was based upon what jobs family took upon and that line of work became their caste aswell. So names like Mirchiwala, Merchant came from there. Qureshis were known for being butcheres so a child born in a queshi family would choose that line of work.

I assume the Christians on our side were basically Dallits that converted and became Christians through missionaries. But the reason for not leaving the line of work was because their ancestors did it and because the Pakistani govt never tried to give minirities of Punjab side any help.

 

[Varun]

I dont know how the Hindu caste system work, but the caste system in the Pakistan side was based upon the jobs they did.

Correct me if it was same in Hinduism aswell, but in general, the cast system was based upon what jobs family took upon and that line of work became their caste aswell. So names like Mirchiwala, Merchant came from there. Qureshis were known for being butcheres so a child born in a queshi family would choose that line of work.

I assume the Christians on our side were basically Dallits that converted and became Christians through missionaries. But the reason for not leaving the line of work was because their ancestors did it and because the Pakistani govt never tried to give minirities of Punjab side any help.

Yes, it was initially based on the job roles of people in India as well.

Anyway, my point is both countries should learn from the (limited) successes of the other. India gets a lot of credit for removing the feudal system - Pakistan should learn from that. And if Pakistan have indeed thrown the caste system into the trash, India should learn from it.

 

[Technics 1210]

The caste system makes Zionists look like a summer picnic.

Imagine being born into a caste, a complete social construct, that has no grounding other than superiority above others, but cannot escape the label because the cult is a vengeful and violent ideology.

Caste system is inherently racist - and the main reason why India has become a mish-mash of whatever it is that the cult promote.

Now remember, no one gets to choose where they are born, and in life we are free to believe what we want - but not the cult - nope - once born the abhorrent scar of the cult lives with you.

 

[Stewie]

Pakistan does not have the caste system. It is a "biradri" system which is often termed as zaat or caste system but it is nowhere close to the segregational hindu caste system, although it is still very inhumane.

I will take a stab at describing our socia-economic "biradri" system hoping to clear any confusion within both Pakisani and Indian PPers.

The typical caste system in india is based on four or five major groups such as Brahmins, Kshatriyas, etc and their standing in society, professions, etc are driven by their castes.

The biradri system in Pakistan is based around religious/tribal/linguistic/past professional affiliations. For instance, some will tell you they are pathans by zaat, when what they mean is they are pathans by ethnicity or biradri, and its not exactly the sort of caste system that hindus practice.
The closest similarity in the pakistani "biradri" system to the indian caste system is one where a particular group associates themselves with a tribe dealing with a particular professions e.g sunyarey, kumhar, etc or Gujjars who are commonly associated with the dairy business or memons who are just considered businessmen. But in todays Pakistani society, Gujjars have other non dairy related careers and memons are also going into non business related careers.

However, that does not mean all is well, we do have our issues too. For instance, the minorities in Punjab are stuck doing menial jobs and now it has become a norm that all the janitorial or cleaning and trash work has to be done by low level Christians. There are educated Christians too who work as professors, judges, actors, singers, etc but this is sort of a stigma in PAKISTAN.

Hindus in Sindh typically engages in commerce and do pretty well contrary to what some Indian hindus here think. The Pakistani hindu families are well established in textile business and they try to keep it hush hush and under the radar.

So you see our segregation is along the lines of anything you can think of under the sun, but the society rarely imposes any restrictions on them in regards to what they can do. The most prominent use of our biradri system is the use it offers when families look for marrying off their kids because they tend to prefer to stay within their biradri.

I thought its important for people here to understand the delineation of the two carelessly thrown around "caste" concepts either side of the border here.

 

[JaDed]

Pakistan does not have the caste system. It is a "biradri" system which is often termed as zaat or caste system but it is nowhere close to the segregational hindu caste system, although it is still very inhumane.

I will take a stab at describing our socia-economic "biradri" system hoping to clear any confusion within both Pakisani and Indian PPers.

The typical caste system in india is based on four or five major groups such as Brahmins, Kshatriyas, etc and their standing in society, professions, etc are driven by their castes.

The biradri system in Pakistan is based around religious/tribal/linguistic/past professional affiliations. For instance, some will tell you they are pathans by zaat, when what they mean is they are pathans by ethnicity or biradri, and its not exactly the sort of caste system that hindus practice.
The closest similarity in the pakistani "biradri" system to the indian caste system is one where a particular group associates themselves with a tribe dealing with a particular professions e.g sunyarey, kumhar, etc or Gujjars who are commonly associated with the dairy business or memons who are just considered businessmen. But in todays Pakistani society, Gujjars have other non dairy related careers and memons are also going into non business related careers.

However, that does not mean all is well, we do have our issues too. For instance, the minorities in Punjab are stuck doing menial jobs and now it has become a norm that all the janitorial or cleaning and trash work has to be done by low level Christians. There are educated Christians too who work as professors, judges, actors, singers, etc but this is sort of a stigma in PAKISTAN.

Hindus in Sindh typically engages in commerce and do pretty well contrary to what some Indian hindus here think. The Pakistani hindu families are well established in textile business and they try to keep it hush hush and under the radar.

So you see our segregation is along the lines of anything you can think of under the sun, but the society rarely imposes any restrictions on them in regards to what they can do. The most prominent use of our biradri system is the use it offers when families look for marrying off their kids because they tend to prefer to stay within their biradri.

I thought its important for people here to understand the delineation of the two carelessly thrown around "caste" concepts either side of the border here.

Does society in India put restrictions on Dalits for education and work?

There are lot of societal issues in India wrt caste but urban societies does have many people from historically discriminated castes in government to private sector jobs.

 

[JaDed]

Yes, it was initially based on the job roles of people in India as well.

Anyway, my point is both countries should learn from the (limited) successes of the other. India gets a lot of credit for removing the feudal system - Pakistan should learn from that. And if Pakistan have indeed thrown the caste system into the trash, India should learn from it.

Having reform in religion helps, example the right wing actually has been against caste from day 1: aka RSS.

Congress even ended polygamy among non-Muslims in India.

 

[Stewie]

Does society in India put restrictions on Dalits for education and work?

There are lot of societal issues in India wrt caste but urban societies does have many people from historically discriminated castes in government to private sector jobs.

I honestly dont know. But can a dalit become a pandit or big prayer leader at the mandir? I apologize if I am not getting some of the terminologies right. I believe only BRAHMINS could hold the big senior religious posts. Has that changed now?

 

[JaDed]

I honestly dont know. But can a dalit become a pandit or big prayer leader at the mandir? I apologize if I am not getting some of the terminologies right. I believe only BRAHMINS could hold the big senior religious posts. Has that changed now?

Yogi Diesel UP CM is not Brahmin neither is Modi, but Brahmins definitely hold big posts in religious stuff.

The state I grew up in Tamil Nadu which had history of caste discrimination has taken lot of efforts in last 50 years , there is almost 69% reservations but mostly jobs education, only now they started with temples.

But yes they are not much in number at least in the big temples and I do think there is discrimination among them as temple priests.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/non-brahmin-priests-appointed-under-landmark-tamil-nadu-reform-say-they-were-banned-from-temple-sanctum-9843486/

 

[Theanonymousone]

I honestly dont know. But can a dalit become a pandit or big prayer leader at the mandir? I apologize if I am not getting some of the terminologies right. I believe only BRAHMINS could hold the big senior religious posts. Has that changed now?

If you are talking about priests, it’s difficult to be honest. Because its ultimately the people who hire it. Nit everyone can prove discrimination through courts.

But legally yes. Tiripati, the biggest temple in India by the number of devotees that come has started inducting SC/STsnor Dalits into priesthood. There are infact laws against such discrimantion.

https://thebetterindia.com/137533/big-first-tirupati-temples-appoint-dalit-sc-st-priests/

Infact management of temples in India is typically done through government boards. Christians also held the senior positions in Temple boards. Its not a retort but its actually difficult to get non-Muslims into Muslim management boards infact. The Waqf board is facing the same issue. TTT (Tirumala board) had Christian members managing it previously as government appointed them.

Caste doesn't not put restrictions anywhere legally in India as it’s a punishable offense. Infact, except for verifying reservations, caste is not mentioned in any official documents. But that doesn't mean caste discrimination is completely gone. Rural areas can witness this even today due to backwardness and lack of reach from government policies.