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Inconsistent swing of Rahat Ali or discipline of Imran Khan?

Slog

Slog

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What do you want for next match?
 
One gets us wickets but at the cost of lot of runs and release of pressure at time

The other one won't roll over anyone but will be a safe holding option and will also bring variety to the attack
 
Have to drop one of Wahab or Rahat. I'd rather drop Wahab.
 
No one is getting dropped yet

Will have to be after the 2nd game

I'd rather have Wahab out and bring in Imran
 
Rahat is a wicket taker. Many a times he takes wickets in 1 spell. He has that ability. New or old ball. He is a must.
 
Imran's discipline is absolutely necessary. He is the ideal bowling partner for Yasir Shah. Even if he doesnt take wickets he keeps it very tight forcing the bats to do something against Yasir's bowling.

Imran is a must!
 
Wahab got the reverse swing going. Don't think he would get dropped right now. Old Trafford transitionally favors reverse swing.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
Imran's discipline is absolutely necessary. He is the ideal bowling partner for Yasir Shah. Even if he doesnt take wickets he keeps it very tight forcing the bats to do something against Yasir's bowling.

Imran is a must!
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I also want him, but will give another game to the current left arm trio, will think about changes after that.
 
At the end of the day, Rahat got us the main wickets. Wahab got the ball to reverse so he won't be dropped

Amir did nothing, so he could probably face the axe, but most probably he wont.

No point dropping someone right now, its not as if the new comer will win us the game. If we drop someone, bring in the new comer and he doesn't perform, then we are in a mess

Continue with the same bowling line up.

But if i had my way, i would bring in Zulfiqar Babar.

Point is, the reason why Pakistan won this test was because of the advantage of having first innings lead. The difference of 70 runs created score board pressure on England in the fourth innings, thus they lost wickets.

But in the first innings, England could had cruised away if it wasn't for Yasir Shah. Our pacers bowled terribly. THey were attacked, and the runrate of england was near 5, as they crossed 100 in 22 overs. Due to this, Misbah wasn't allowed to bring in part timers like Azhar Ali or some one else, as at that every single run was crucial, and as part timers are attacked, it was a weird situation.

If the pacers keep leaking runs like this due to mental pressure or other issues, the series could be put at risk.
 
Anfield said:
Wahab got the reverse swing going. Don't think he would get dropped right now. Old Trafford transitionally favors reverse swing.
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The match could have been slipped away by the time this tractor starts.

Imran Khan is very underrated here. You saw how many edges Rahat and Amir created with new ball and Imran is a master at swinging the new ball and bowling 5 balls in same area. He is a must for green tops.
 
Both should play

Imran Khan will bang in those tight lines while Rahat will probe with his swing. Amir it seems will be unstoppable so Wahab needs to sit out for the benefit of team
 
IAJ said:
The match could have been slipped away by the time this tractor starts.

Imran Khan is very underrated here. You saw how many edges Rahat and Amir created with new ball and Imran is a master at swinging the new ball and bowling 5 balls in same area. He is a must for green tops.
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I thought Imran was good with the old ball only (mostly) just like Wahab?
 
Anfield said:
I thought Imran was good with the old ball only (mostly) just like Wahab?
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He is dangerous with new ball, swings it both ways. Only issue is his pace but he was bowling 135-139 in UAE and that is good enough if wicket suits him.
 
laughing at those who want wahab removed.

Probably bowled the pace spell of the match but was unlucky not to get more wickets.

If you want more variety you need to look at dropping either Amir or Rahat..... And I would drop neither of them.

Leave the winning team, see if somehow we can get some offspin in the team for Old trafford
 
Rahat and Wahab peformed better in the 2nd innings. Unchanged team for the 2nd test
 
IAJ said:
He is dangerous with new ball, swings it both ways. Only issue is his pace but he was bowling 135-139 in UAE and that is good enough if wicket suits him.
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Lol, do you know what swing looks like or have ever swung a cricket ball?
 
GudduBadmash said:
Both should play

Imran Khan will bang in those tight lines while Rahat will probe with his swing. Amir it seems will be unstoppable so Wahab needs to sit out for the benefit of team
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Imran will be rubbish and be carted around on these pitches.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] that dp looks familiar.
 
Can't change the attack after a win.

It'll be the same team including the abysmal openers.
 
Arthur told sky sports after the game that the side will be selected depending on conditions. So if the pitch requires imran or sohail they will be selected.

He felt we needed pace for Lord's that's why Rahat and Wahab were selected
 
aloo paratha said:
Same could be asked for you. Sure he went a little over the top saying he swings it both ways but definitely swings it.
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He does swing the new ball both ways. When you have a bowler who swings it away from RHB it's not big deal for him to swing it into them either. He has similar action to Umar Gul and Umar was a good swing bowler when he started of his career.
 
We need to remember that Imran Khan Jr. is just a poor mans' Umer Gul..


I'd stick with Rahat Ali ..
 
Performance wise only Amir is the one who should be dropped.. Rahat has been by far the best fast bowler in our side..
 
IAJ said:
He does swing the new ball both ways. When you have a bowler who swings it away from RHB it's not big deal for him to swing it into them either. He has similar action to Umar Gul and Umar was a good swing bowler when he started of his career.
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Well I don't recall him swinging it both ways. He definitely does move the ball in, but that's movement off the seam not swing.

Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember.
 
Safar55 said:
laughing at those who want wahab removed.

Probably bowled the pace spell of the match but was unlucky not to get more wickets.

If you want more variety you need to look at dropping either Amir or Rahat..... And I would drop neither of them.

Leave the winning team, see if somehow we can get some offspin in the team for Old trafford
Click to expand...

Needs to work on his footlanding.. this pitch was supporting him round the wicket, he was almost banned from bowling in the entire match..

There is no vicky bhai now to fix those problems.. gotta do them himself. Wahab was more discplined when Waqar Younis was around
 
Pakistan's bowling attack has won the Test for Pakistan, despite the abysmal batting by most of the batting line-up (bar Misbah and Shafiq), and that too on a pitch which everyone was saying before the match was a batsman's paradise with a par score of 500+.
And yet some wrist slitters want to change the bowling line-up for the next match where the conditions will, in theory, be even more favourable for this particular Pakistan bowling attack since the pitch is said to be spin friendly as well as being conducive to reverse swing, the two areas where Pakistan's bowling attack has the edge.
 
aloo paratha said:
Well I don't recall him swinging it both ways. He definitely does move the ball in, but that's movement off the seam not swing.

Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember.
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He moves it both ways. Has the best out swinger in domestic.
 
Wahab should be removed. Though it's rule of our team that they don't disturb winning combination and bla bla stuff.

But IK is a must.
 
#GreenRoars said:
Wahab should be removed. Though it's rule of our team that they don't disturb winning combination and bla bla stuff.

But IK is a must.
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Tough because Wahab was brilliant today.

Honestly on performance alone Amir should be dropped, but it will never happen in a million years because of potential and hopes and dreams of the brilliance he was showed. Seriously - I thin we all live a little in the hope that we'll see that Amir, even if there's no actual evidence we will, and so he'll play regardless.

But if Amir can't get swing at OT he's just not at the level
 
#GreenRoars said:
Wahab should be removed. Though it's rule of our team that they don't disturb winning combination and bla bla stuff.

But IK is a must.
Click to expand...
I kinda hate that mentality, just because the team won doesn't mean that it didn't have problems. The appropriate team should be selected on merit.
 
There should be a right arm seamer in the team, but you can't really remove any of the current guys. Not after the win. And that's a good thing. Good competition for the spots.

BTW, seamers leaking runs is just a smoke show. The English batsmen are simply playing the wrong format. The higher their scoring rate, the more risk they will take, and the more edges and airborne mishits will come. Let them.
 
Misbah is not that captain who like to change the winning combination

Even thought I don't like Wahab at moment because he is all over the palce and bowling way too short pitch stuff. but in management eye's he got pace and that quality will keep him safe

Again Rahat, not impressed personally but it ll be unfair to drop him now after he gave us .early advantage with 3 wickets in 2nd innings.

Amir ll not be dropped
 
Game the same XI another game.

Then, you can consider dropping one of Wahab/Rahat and one of Hafeez/Shan (as long as they perform poorly, obviously).
 
discipline of Imran Khan at the speeds of 130 kph. lol no thanks.

Rahat's inconsistent swing is actually his beauty and helps him pick wicket. It is a surprise element. Rahat with his inconsistency still produces wicket taking deliveries. He should have had 4 wickets if it wasn't for drop catch and that's four top order wickets. Top stuff. IK will take eternity to pick one wicket with his great control.
 
We should go with the same attack. I know it won't happen but our team will be well balanced if we bring in amir yamin instead of Hafeez in the next match.
 
Drop Wahab, get in Imran Khan Jr. Wahab looks hopeless with the bat too in Tests. He's not contributing with the bat and doesn't get wickets either. Yeah he bowled a great 5 over spell but at the end of the day he didn't get wickets. Wahab does not have the art of taking wickets. He's a brainless bowler who doesn't think batsmen out. Just runs it and throws the ball as fast as he can hoping the batsmen gets out. Similar to Mohammad Sami. Imran on the other hand may not have Wahab's pace but he is unerringly accurate and we need control. Gone are the days when batsmen used to have lots of patience. Now dots builds up pressure and gets you wickets.
 
Wahab Riaz as expected is extremely potent when the reverse swing gets going. If it's a dry pitch Wahab should have a go otherwise it's common sense to drop him for Imran. If there is grass on the pitch Imran should be tough to handle with his tight line and seam movement.
 
LowKiiSavage said:
Why is it Rahat vs Imran Khan Jr?

It should be Wahab vs Imran Khan in which i would drop wahab.
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Wahab did bowl one of the game changing important spell of the day

also he can reverse
 
MRSN said:
discipline of Imran Khan at the speeds of 130 kph. lol no thanks.

Rahat's inconsistent swing is actually his beauty and helps him pick wicket. It is a surprise element. Rahat with his inconsistency still produces wicket taking deliveries. He should have had 4 wickets if it wasn't for drop catch and that's four top order wickets. Top stuff. IK will take eternity to pick one wicket with his great control.
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it loses you control and sets you back when he isnt taking wickets as he goes at 4.5+ an over


also Rahat usually hovers around 133-135 too
 
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The guy just took 3 top order wickets including by far England's best two batsmen and people want to drop him?? Mind boggling.
 
Slog said:
it loses you control and sets you back when he isnt taking wickets as he goes at 4.5+ an over


also Rahat usually hovers around 133-135 too
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trust me he will have been taken to the cleaners on this pitch. There was rarely any swing and great bounce. Rahat got wickets because he does have speed+swing+bounce and his surprise delivery which becomes sometimes unplayable.

Rahat was amongst fastest bowlers of WC2015. He can crank up when needed.
IK is just a bowling machine with no pace.
 
enigmatic_stani said:
The guy just took 3 top order wickets including by far England's best two batsmen and people want to drop him?? Mind boggling.
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It's Slog. don't be surprised if he starts a thread about SHan Masood being next Saeed Anwar.
 
Slog said:
Wahab did bowl one of the game changing important spell of the day

also he can reverse
Click to expand...

Rahat is more useful than Wahab. He was the actual gamechanger by taking Cook and Root's wicket. Lets not manipulate the narrative, please.
 
Slog said:
it loses you control and sets you back when he isnt taking wickets as he goes at 4.5+ an over


also Rahat usually hovers around 133-135 too
Click to expand...

To be fair his control has been worse than usual in this test. He does lack control but is generally not this bad. He probably had trouble controlling the new ball. Once the ball got older he had much better control. And his control also improved in the second innings. I think he just needs to get used the new conditions and the ball and he will fare better.

Taking the first test as evidence Rahat is our best bet to take top order wickets early on. You need to remove the openers early on if you want to get England out early. If we allow the openers, especially Cook, to see off the new ball they will make us pay.
 
Rope in Imran Khan for Amir.Best solution.

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk
 
Major said:
At the end of the day, Rahat got us the main wickets. Wahab got the ball to reverse so he won't be dropped

Amir did nothing, so he could probably face the axe, but most probably he wont.

No point dropping someone right now, its not as if the new comer will win us the game. If we drop someone, bring in the new comer and he doesn't perform, then we are in a mess

Continue with the same bowling line up.

But if i had my way, i would bring in Zulfiqar Babar.

Point is, the reason why Pakistan won this test was because of the advantage of having first innings lead. The difference of 70 runs created score board pressure on England in the fourth innings, thus they lost wickets.

But in the first innings, England could had cruised away if it wasn't for Yasir Shah. Our pacers bowled terribly. THey were attacked, and the runrate of england was near 5, as they crossed 100 in 22 overs. Due to this, Misbah wasn't allowed to bring in part timers like Azhar Ali or some one else, as at that every single run was crucial, and as part timers are attacked, it was a weird situation.

If the pacers keep leaking runs like this due to mental pressure or other issues, the series could be put at risk.
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Yeah, you are right, our current spinner never performs, and barely takes any wickets...
 
Obviously you cannot drop Rahat after he blew apart England's top order on the decisive day. Wahab bowled a great spell of reverse swing, and Old T is supposed to support that type of bowling. If the bowlers are fit enough, I think they should carry on.
 
MRSN said:
It's Slog. don't be surprised if he starts a thread about SHan Masood being next Saeed Anwar.
Click to expand...

nah im not an Umar Akmal fan to be thinking such ridiculous things
 
Ill go with the same team. Rahat leaks some runs but he picks up the key wickets. Wahab bowled a very good spell in the 2nd Spell. If there was a little bit of bounce, he would have picked a couple of more wickets+ he was reversing it.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 Eye using Tapatalk
 
I think Imran is a better bowler than just a "holder of the fort"...

Besides having a disciplined bowler isn't a a bad thing either.
 
Slog said:
One gets us wickets but at the cost of lot of runs and release of pressure at time

The other one won't roll over anyone but will be a safe holding option and will also bring variety to the attack
Click to expand...

Nope. Imran has a better SR than Rahat in both international and domestic cricket. And unlike Rahat he likes to take 5 fers and 10 fers. Rahat flatters to deceive with his skills.
 
LowKiiSavage said:
Rahat is more useful than Wahab. He was the actual gamechanger by taking Cook and Root's wicket. Lets not manipulate the narrative, please.
Click to expand...

All spells presumably change something in a match. But it is wishful in the extreme to say that Wahab changed the game more than Yasir, Rahat, or even Amir, who took Cook's wicket in the first innings, very competently closed out the England innings, and kept the runs down. Wahab was exhilarating to watch, much as in his spell against Watson.
 
MRSN said:
trust me he will have been taken to the cleaners on this pitch. There was rarely any swing and great bounce. Rahat got wickets because he does have speed+swing+bounce and his surprise delivery which becomes sometimes unplayable.

Rahat was amongst fastest bowlers of WC2015. He can crank up when needed.
IK is just a bowling machine with no pace.
Click to expand...

So you'd have Rahat over Asif? Ave 35 over 28?

UAE pitches weren't very helpful if I recall, who bowled best on them?
 
If it's a little greener surface, Imran should play; on drier hard deck Wahab will play. In any case Aamir & Rahat should play.

I think, at Birmingham Imran will definitely play over Wahab, who is not a good English wicket bowler. On most grounds, may be apart from Oval he won't come into game before 3rd innings.

At Manchester, this year's County matches has resulted 2 innings wins & a 8 wicket win by home side - all 3 by bowling 1st; while only time a match ended in draw was when Lancashire batted first - in that regard I think Imran is a better choice, unless they dry the wicket & take out some grass to ensure the Test in to 5th day.
 
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New Yorker said:
All spells presumably change something in a match. But it is wishful in the extreme to say that Wahab changed the game more than Yasir, Rahat, or even Amir, who took Cook's wicket in the first innings, very competently closed out the England innings, and kept the runs down. Wahab was exhilarating to watch, much as in his spell against Watson.
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He might be exhilarating to watch but at the end of the day what matters is how many wickets he took. He couldnt take watson's wicket and he was just able to get one wicket with a shambolic performance in rest of the match.
 
There's a few points about the bowling:

1) They'll be encouraged by this England batting unit. They like to play their shots and will give you chances. There were so many nicks in this game that didn't carry due to lack of pace in the pitch. That won't happen on faster wickets like Old Trafford and The Oval.

2) Amir's performance has been criticised however I thought he played an unselfish role as once he realised wasn't getting much swing he at least had to contain and build pressure for other bowlers like Yasir. Infact there was a spell of 5 overs from Amir that yielded 6 runs in the 2nd inns. Amir improved as the game went on and it will take time for him to readjust after six years out. Typical Pakistani fan impatience to want him dropped already.

3) Rahat bowled some jaffas in this match, especially the one to Cook in the 2nd inns. I was surprised at how close to the stumps he bowled, so much so that he landed on the danger zone a few times and was warned. But he gets that late swing and when he pitches in the right areas he makes the batsmen play. My frustration is he's incapable of landing 6 consecutive deliveries in that off-stump channel. There's always a short and wide, pressure releasing half volley in him. Not every delivery needs to be a wicket-taking ball - if he develops more patience and consistency he can be a gem of a bowler for us.

4) Wahab looked better going around the wicket IMO on Sunday afternoon when he reversed the ball at pace and was very unlucky some of those nicks didn't carry. But like the Watson spell, there was no end result to this aesthetically pleasing and exciting spell. Before that spell he bowled poorly barring the yorker to Broad in the 1st inns.

I'm not sure if we can afford both Rahat and Wahab in the same attack as at least one of them will always be expensive. However Old Trafford is a hard, bouncy track that offers reverse swing with older ball so he may fare better there and at The Oval. I agree with MMHS, I'd rather see Imran at Edgbaston as Wahab will never be that English-style, line and length seamer that you'll need at such venues. I hope Arthur stays true to his word that selection will depend on conditions.
 
LowKiiSavage said:
He might be exhilarating to watch but at the end of the day what matters is how many wickets he took. He couldnt take watson's wicket and he was just able to get one wicket with a shambolic performance in rest of the match.
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can you get anymore simple and idiotic than this ?
a bowler can get wickets by sheer luck-like batsman playing a poor shot or any other thing but that does not make that bowler good or any more likely to get a wicket.
On the other hand Wahab displayed all the wicket taking abilities,even if he did not take wickets which was down to luck.This shows that he is more likely to pick wickets next time which is what is important.
And to discredit Wahab for not getting watsons wicket is just bs.That was down to sheer bad luck.Did you even watch that match ?
 
slice said:
can you get anymore simple and idiotic than this ?
a bowler can get wickets by sheer luck-like batsman playing a poor shot or any other thing but that does not make that bowler good or any more likely to get a wicket.
On the other hand Wahab displayed all the wicket taking abilities,even if he did not take wickets which was down to luck.This shows that he is more likely to pick wickets next time which is what is important.
And to discredit Wahab for not getting watsons wicket is just bs.That was down to sheer bad luck.Did you even watch that match ?
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Oh, my angry dear friend, you cannot always blame luck for wahab's failure. He might be unlucky one, twice or thrice but he cannot be unlucky in every match he plays which sadly is the case considering his poor wicket taking 'ability'.

If you want to blame luck, cry God a river but kindly keep your legends away from our team.
 
slice said:
can you get anymore simple and idiotic than this ?
a bowler can get wickets by sheer luck-like batsman playing a poor shot or any other thing but that does not make that bowler good or any more likely to get a wicket.
On the other hand Wahab displayed all the wicket taking abilities,even if he did not take wickets which was down to luck.This shows that he is more likely to pick wickets next time which is what is important.
And to discredit Wahab for not getting watsons wicket is just bs.That was down to sheer bad luck.Did you even watch that match ?
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"All wicket taking abilities"? He can't bowl yorkers, by his own admission. The Broad wicket was a very rare occurence for him.

And he is supposed to be the bowler who mops up the opposition tail, no problem
 
New Yorker said:
In ODIs Agarkar was far far better.
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Not talking of any format as it's up to the players to achieve what they can. But they are similar to the fact that they could take wickets but will keep bowling rubbish deliveries more than often and can be taken to cleaners.
 
It's amazing how people come up with their wishful lineup's and dropping suggestions.

Seriously haven't you seen enough of Misbah yet? He never changes winning combination.

Nobody would be dropped (unless it's a spinning track or someone gets injured).
 
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