India in India vs Australia in Australia - The real fortress

[big_gamer007]

Which of the two is the real fortress? India in India or Australia in Australia?

Throughout history India have been very strong at home even with a mediocre team they were dominant in home conditions.

Similarly Australia have also been dominant at home however they have had luxury of having a great team for most part of history.

For Australia ATG side the litmus test was to win a series in India but that was the best ever team ever in history of cricket..

India have come close but luck and umpiring have cost them..

Either ways it’s not about how the other country does it’s about who are better team in home conditions against all opponents?

I would have added Pakistan in UAE but they lost a series against SL and with retirement of MisYou they are not as strong anymore..
Mods can you add a poll if possible?

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

India after 87 has lost only 3 test series, 1 to mighty australia , 1 to great south African team which has Donald, Pollock as abowler . Only one series is lost to medium team like Eng but even then Cook, KP ,Swan , Panesar and Anderson was in top form.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

You can say Australia lost only to 2 teams but in the manner they lost to South Africa last time where Steyn was injured, and SA was playing with 10 played including one was Duminy and no ABd really a tie breaker in favour of india.
I don't think India can loose to a team where his premier spinner is injured on the first day ,one of the best player is not playing and some players are out of form.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Justin langer himself said that to win in india is the biggest test for his team.
India is nearly unbeatable at home.

 

[Xoib]

India after 87 has lost only 3 test series, 1 to mighty australia , 1 to great south African team which has Donald, Pollock as abowler . Only one series is lost to medium team like Eng but even then Cook, KP ,Swan , Panesar and Anderson was in top form.

Pakistan did win 2 out of 3 tests on the 99 tour unfortunatley the last test was the Asian test championship

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Pakistan did win 2 out of 3 tests on the 99 tour unfortunatley the last test was the Asian test championship

Remember those matches, India was 110 for 0 chasing 270 odd before loosing by 30 odd runs and in chennai was 251 for 6 chasing 270 before loosing.
My point is it will take a great magical performance like this or great team to beat India even when when India was not great test team, can you say same for Australia, specially the current Australian team.

 

[big_gamer007]

Justin langer himself said that to win in india is the biggest test for his team.
India is nearly unbeatable at home.

Yes but that is because it’s alien conditions and a challenge for Aussies..

Similarly for India winnings test series in Australia will be the biggest achievement in test format..

Australia are nearly unbeatable as well at home.

 

[big_gamer007]

India after 87 has lost only 3 test series, 1 to mighty australia , 1 to great south African team which has Donald, Pollock as abowler . Only one series is lost to medium team like Eng but even then Cook, KP ,Swan , Panesar and Anderson was in top form.

So you will go for India in India being a tougher fortress than Australia in Australia?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan in UAE is a bigger and grander forterss. India is a jhuggi jhopri compared to that.

For more details please get in touch with my brother Billu [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]

 

[Xoib]

Pakistan in UAE is a bigger and grander forterss. India is a jhuggi jhopri compared to that.

For more details please get in touch with my brother Billu [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]

Pakistan with Misbah-YK and Ajmal-yes

Current Pakistan-NO

 

[big_gamer007]

Pakistan in UAE is a bigger and grander forterss. India is a jhuggi jhopri compared to that.

For more details please get in touch with my brother Billu [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]

Oh come on you are looking for some fireworks aren’t you?

Pakistan was a fortress no doubt when MisYou were there but current Pakistan just lost to SL so it’s not anymore.. Once they find a settle lineup maybe they can be again who knows..

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan was a fortress between 1980-1995 when no visiting team managed to win a series there. So were the Windies around that time. If you take the last 30 years though , I think India has been the real fortress with only 3 series bring lost. In the same period, OZ have lost atleast 6 series at home, PAK around 9(including UAE). So yes it's harder for a visiting team to win a series in India compared to anywhere else.

 

[big_gamer007]

Pakistan was a fortress between 1980-1995 when no visiting team managed to win a series there. So were the Windies around that time. If you take the last 30 years though , I think India has been the real fortress with only 3 series bring lost. In the same period, OZ have lost atleast 6 series at home, PAK around 9(including UAE). So yes it's harder for a visiting team to win a series in India compared to anywhere else.

Can you kindly put stats here in statsguru screenshots?
[MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION]

 

[Ab Fan]

Currently, it is India in India.

 

[BreadPakoda]

What about South Africa? Not many teams have won there

 

[JattMaula]

What about South Africa? Not many teams have won there

England and Australia have won multiple series in SA.

 

[Bhaijaan]

What about South Africa? Not many teams have won there

God damn Sri Lanka has a series win there.

India , Pakistan win one test every time they go there.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

What about South Africa? Not many teams have won there

Recent series loss of aus against sa was there first loss in sa post readmission.

 

[Ab Fan]

God damn Sri Lanka has a series win there.

India , Pakistan win one test every time they go there.

When did Sri Lanka won a series in SA? And dont agree with second line as well. I think you meant England.

England are mid-tier team unlike AIS.

 

[Mamoon]

UAE was never a fortress for Pakistan. Apart from the Australian series, we failed to demolish opposition. Yes we have beaten England in 5 out of the 6 Tests in the UAE, but pretty much 3-4 of those Tests were in the balance for a long time.

We were also lucky to not play long series, i.e. 4 or 5 Tests. Teams take time to adjust to the UAE conditions, and they were already out of the equation by that time.

We haven't won a single series against South Africa, Sri Lanka would have won the 2014 series if it wasn't for one poor session, New Zealand won a Test as well, and England were minutes away from winning the Abu Dhabi Test, before sunset saved us. Moreover, they could have easily won a couple of games as well.

Our so-called dominance in the UAE during Misbah's era is a myth. As far as India vs Australia is concerned, India is comfortably the biggest fortress in Test cricket today, and beating India in India is the pinnacle of the format right now.

 

[hadi123]

For an Asian team, beating Australia in Australia, for a non-Asian team, then beating India in India.

 

[BreadPakoda]

God damn Sri Lanka has a series win there.

Seriously? When did that happen?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Australia in Australia and even SA in SA because no Asian team has won a series in those countries.

Australia and SA have won series in India, Pakistan, and SL.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Australia in Australia and even SA in SA because no Asian team has won a series in those countries.

Australia and SA have won series in India, Pakistan, and SL.

Not equal comparison.
You can't win in SA or Australia without fast bowlers but you can win in Asia with help of fast bowlers with out using great spinner . See SA series win in 97 or 2007 in Pak where Steyn and Pollock demolished them.
SA series win Srilanka in 2000 and 2014 where Steyn took fifer.
Or Sa series win in India was again done by Donald ,pollock, their test win 2008 and 2010 was due to Steyn and 96 test win was due to Klusner.
Australia won Banglore 98 because of mike max pro name like bowler, Mumbai test win came because of Mcgrath . Their series win in 2004 came because of McGrath and Jason Gillespie . They came really close to win test match in 2010 because of Johnson. Only 2017 fezt test win was due to spinner.
To be fair apart from 2004 lankan series most of the win of the Australia, south Africa came because of fast bowlers.
Now apart from Pak no asian team had good fast bowlers so series win was not easy in Africa or Australia.
India is bigger fortress because they have to play spinners on rank turners and fast bowlers who can bowl cutter or reverse swing.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Which of the two is the real fortress? India in India or Australia in Australia?

Throughout history India have been very strong at home even with a mediocre team they were dominant in home conditions.

Similarly Australia have also been dominant at home however they have had luxury of having a great team for most part of history.

For Australia ATG side the litmus test was to win a series in India but that was the best ever team ever in history of cricket..

India have come close but luck and umpiring have cost them..

Either ways it’s not about how the other country does it’s about who are better team in home conditions against all opponents?

I would have added Pakistan in UAE but they lost a series against SL and with retirement of MisYou they are not as strong anymore..
Mods can you add a poll if possible?

Pakistan in Pakistan is a huge huge threat

I don't think any team has a better winning percentage in tests at home than us.

 

[Peshwa]

God damn Sri Lanka has a series win there.

India , Pakistan win one test every time they go there.

T20 Series Win not Test Series

 

[j_kazmi]

UAE was never a fortress for Pakistan. Apart from the Australian series, we failed to demolish opposition. Yes we have beaten England in 5 out of the 6 Tests in the UAE, but pretty much 3-4 of those Tests were in the balance for a long time.

We were also lucky to not play long series, i.e. 4 or 5 Tests. Teams take time to adjust to the UAE conditions, and they were already out of the equation by that time.

We haven't won a single series against South Africa, Sri Lanka would have won the 2014 series if it wasn't for one poor session, New Zealand won a Test as well, and England were minutes away from winning the Abu Dhabi Test, before sunset saved us. Moreover, they could have easily won a couple of games as well.

Our so-called dominance in the UAE during Misbah's era is a myth. As far as India vs Australia is concerned, India is comfortably the biggest fortress in Test cricket today, and beating India in India is the pinnacle of the format right now.

No one has even mentioned the UAE in this thread so far, other than one person trolling.

UAE isn’t even in the discussion. You don’t need to bring your negative views on Pakistan into every discussion.

If we’re having discussion about Pakistan then it’s fine. You have your opinions and I except that, heck I even agree with quiet a lot of what you have to say about Pakistan. But shoe horning your negative views on Pakistan in to every conversation just causes trouble and to be honest sounds a little bit condescending.

 

[Mamoon]

No one has even mentioned the UAE in this thread so far, other than one person trolling.

UAE isn’t even in the discussion. You don’t need to bring your negative views on Pakistan into every discussion.

If we’re having discussion about Pakistan then it’s fine. You have your opinions and I except that, heck I even agree with quiet a lot of what you have to say about Pakistan. But shoe horning your negative views on Pakistan in to every conversation just causes trouble and to be honest sounds a little bit condescending.

UAE was mentioned 5-6 times before my post, and that is why I touched on it. You would have noticed that but you were too focused on my post.

 

[Ab Fan]

South Africa has a spectacular record against Pakistan in tests. Since readmission, both teams have played 10 test series between them and SA have won 6 while Pakistan have won only 1.

In Pakistan/UAE:-

1998 series:- SA won 1-0.
2004 series:- Pak won 1-0.
2008 series:- SA won 1-0.
2011 series:- Drawn 0-0.
2014 series:- Drawn 1-1.

SA batters,i.e. Kirsten, Kallis, Smith, AB and Amla all have piled tons of runs in Pakistan/UAE.

 

[j_kazmi]

UAE was mentioned 5-6 times before my post, and that is why I touched on it. You would have noticed that but you were too focused on my post.

UAE was mentioned by one troll who was actually making fun of our ‘fortress’ and the rest were simply replying to him.

All I’m saying is that your negative posts on Pakistan are not really constructive any more as it looks like your just trying to get a rise out of other members.

 

[Mamoon]

UAE was mentioned by one troll who was actually making fun of our ‘fortress’ and the rest were simply replying to him.

All I’m saying is that your negative posts on Pakistan are not really constructive any more as it looks like your just trying to get a rise out of other members.

The OP, who is not a troll, stated that he would have added Pakistan in the UAE as well, but they are not a fortress after the retirement of Younis and Misbah.

I responded by stating that the UAE was not a fortress even during the Younis and Misbah era. I have also explained why I think so, so I don't see how my post was not constructive.

You wouldn't have missed the last sentence of the OP if you weren't too busy criticizing my post.

 

[j_kazmi]

The OP, who is not a troll, stated that he would have added Pakistan in the UAE as well, but they are not a fortress after the retirement of Younis and Misbah.

I responded by stating that the UAE was not a fortress even during the Younis and Misbah era. I have also explained why I think so, so I don't see how my post was not constructive.

You wouldn't have missed the last sentence of the OP if you weren't too busy criticizing my post.

Ok fair enough. I didnt really read the last part of the OP.

Like I said before I agree with a lot of your criticisms of Pakistan cricket. But for some reason your posts about Pakistan are overly negative and at times run people the wrong way.

 

[Savage]

Why on earth are some people mentioning SA in this thread?

ATM India is easily best at home and no should argue against it.Australia aren't even best team at their home.SA have won 3 back to back series in Australia.Not to forget 3-1 humiliating loss against arch rivals England in Ashes 2010-11 where England won all 3 matches by an innings.

 

[big_gamer007]

Pakistan in Pakistan is a huge huge threat

I don't think any team has a better winning percentage in tests at home than us.

Is or was? No doubt Pakistan were superb at home but they haven’t played in home for like 10 years now and even before that the best team Australia didn’t tour Pakistan since when I don’t know?

In 80’s and 90’s they were one of the top notch teams at home no doubt but since they don’t play in Pakistan anymore we don’t have any sample size to consider them in the running..

 

[Hasan123]

Australia in Australia is more dominant. No Asian team has ever won a series in Australia. Whilst India have lost series to non Asian teams in Asia.

 

[Savage]

Australia in Australia is more dominant. No Asian team has ever won a series in Australia. Whilst India have lost series to non Asian teams in Asia.

Bro How does Australia beating Asian teams at home makes their fortress much better than beating any other team that are even tougher challenge?

This criteria is simply CRAP.Otherwise SA will also have bigger fortress than India.

 

[greatest]

I have a feeling that this time India will win in Australia. The reason a) Australia are without their two explosive and match winning batsmen - Smith & Warner plus Smith the captain. Paine was not even a regular and is now the captain, so the motivation is low.
b) Australian pitches have become very very flat and there are no tests in Brisbane or Perth.
c) A lot depends on the fitness of Starc and Cumming - both are injury prone.

 

[greatest]

I have a feeling that this time India will win in Australia. The reason a) Australia are without their two explosive and match winning batsmen - Smith & Warner plus Smith the captain. Paine was not even a regular and is now the captain, so the motivation is low.
b) Australian pitches have become very very flat and there are no tests in Brisbane or Perth.
c) A lot depends on the fitness of Starc and Cumming - both are injury prone.

They will be playing at the new Perth stadium not sure it has the same bounce as the famous WACA. Should win this time at least 2-0.

 

[Hasan123]

Bro How does Australia beating Asian teams at home makes their fortress much better than beating any other team that are even tougher challenge?

This criteria is simply CRAP.Otherwise SA will also have bigger fortress than India.

In a 100 years of cricket they haven't lost to an Asian team . That's what you call a fortress. India have lost home series that they shouldn't have lost.

 

[Ab Fan]

India's fortress at home is generally put into question because

1) they arent playing any strong Asian side at home from a good long period.In contrast, Australia plays SA who are a very strong side and both keep beating each other in their backyard.

2) India didnt had a great side historically. It is true that even when India were an average team, they were very good at home but still they were very much beatable.

 

[Savage]

In a 100 years of cricket they haven't lost to an Asian team . That's what you call a fortress.

I see you have conveniently ignored about the SA point.

You didn't have to bring last 100 years of cricket to prove Australia dominance at home.They are well ahead even if consider Home performance since 2000 also.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...am=6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=team

ATM India is better because they have lost only 1 Home series compared to 3 by Australia since this decade.It is also indicated by Icc rankings where India is no 1 mainly because of home dominance.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...am=6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=team

Nonetheless,It is not my main point.

India have lost home series that they shouldn't have lost.

Why India shouldn't have lost?

It is another one of those crap criteria which people think as a standard and then blindly applies.

India lost those series because they were beaten by better team who generally are better away from home.It doesn't matter whether they lost to Asian or non Asian Team.

Pak lost their fortress because they were whitewashed by SL(Asian Team) in UAE.

Similarly Australia is not the biggest fortress because of their home performance against SA(non Asian Team).

India or Asian Team failing to win any series in Australia and SA doesn't necessarily make SA or Australia best team at home.It can also mean Asian Teams are poor away from home.

In this case,India's ordinary performance in SA/outside SubContinent and SA good performance in India/Sub continent only means that SA are great Team away but they are still nothing more than decent Team at home.

I thought that was self explanatory but I can give you another example if you still have any confusion.

 

[Bhaijaan]

India's fortress at home is generally put into question because

1) they arent playing any strong Asian side at home from a good long period.In contrast, Australia plays SA who are a very strong side and both keep beating each other in their backyard.

2) India didnt had a great side historically. It is true that even when India were an average team, they were very good at home but still they were very much beatable.

Sums it up beautifully.

Unless India doesn't beat a top Pakistan team thrice consecutively over the next 0 years in home tests series they have no fortress.

Pakistan in UAE on the other hand. Thats what domination is.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

India.

Easily.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sums it up beautifully.

Unless India doesn't beat a top Pakistan team thrice consecutively over the next 0 years in home tests series they have no fortress.

Pakistan in UAE on the other hand. Thats what domination is.

Same rule applies for Pakistan also. Even during Mis-You days, they have failed to win series successively against Sri Lanka in UAE and have also only been able to draw series vs New Zealand and South Africa, those were non-Asian sides. Post Mis-You, less said the better.

At the moment, India is the biggest fortress at home no doubt, even after considering that they won't get to prove it by playing any strong Asian side because none are as good as Australia/South Africa are.

 

[Sherlock]

India in India, is a different beast - especially if it's a turning track.

 

[Bhaijaan]

India in India, is a different beast - especially if it's a turning track.

Pakistan won in 1999, drew eith their weakest team in 2005 with their weakest team.

Fortress has been breached every time a competent team travelled to India.


Same cant be said about Pakistan in UAE. They doninated everyone.

 

[Sherlock]

Pakistan won in 1999, drew eith their weakest team in 2005 with their weakest team.

Fortress has been breached every time a competent team travelled to India.


Same cant be said about Pakistan in UAE. They doninated everyone.

Don't think they dominated enough. They lost to SL recently, and have also drawn too many games in the UAE. Think the dominance part is overly exaggerated, tbh.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Don't think they dominated enough. They lost to SL recently, and have also drawn too many games in the UAE. Think the dominance part is overly exaggerated, tbh.

Sherlock bhai how good was that pakistan XI though?

You can’t compare a resurgent Pakistan side with a settler Indian side and wrongly call India a fortress. What Pakistan managed to achieve at UAE with THAT team is REMARKABLE.

 

[big_gamer007]

Pakistan won in 1999, drew eith their weakest team in 2005 with their weakest team.

Fortress has been breached every time a competent team travelled to India.


Same cant be said about Pakistan in UAE. They doninated everyone.

Toughest opponents for India at home will always be Pakistan because of their ability to play spin and they have bowlers who can reverse and good spinners.. So they were the top challengers for India’s home dominance..

However the current Pakistani line up without Misbah and Younis might get eaten alive by Jaddu and Ashwin on turners.. I don’t watch Pakistani cricket in UAE so I don’t know how good the current lot are against spin can they counter Jaddu/Ashwin on turners or get eaten?


But yes historically Pakistan had the team and tools to win against India in India..
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=47000]Sherlock[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=146272]Savage[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION]

 

[Monsee]

India after 87 has lost only 3 test series, 1 to mighty australia , 1 to great south African team which has Donald, Pollock as abowler . Only one series is lost to medium team like Eng but even then Cook, KP ,Swan , Panesar and Anderson was in top form.

I see what you did there, Pak series win (in 87) had to be negated at all cost lol, the inferiority complex of Indian fans

 

[Savage]

Toughest opponents for India at home will always be Pakistan because of their ability to play spin and they have bowlers who can reverse and good spinners.. So they were the top challengers for India’s home dominance..

Historically,Pakistan have been very good in India.Pakistan have won 5 matches and lost 7 in India.

However the current Pakistani line up without Misbah and Younis might get eaten alive by Jaddu and Ashwin on turners..I don’t watch Pakistani cricket in UAE so I don’t know how good the current lot are against spin can they counter Jaddu/Ashwin on turners or get eaten?


But yes historically Pakistan had the team and tools to win against India in India..
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=47000]Sherlock[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=146272]Savage[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION]

Pakistan have just been whitewashed by SL in UAE recently.So I don't think current Pakistan team would trouble India so much.

Last time they toured India was in 2007 and India won that series 1-0(series where Ganguly scored his 1st 200).

After that Indian team got only better with likes of Zaheer,Gambhir,Sehwag and Sachin in great form and they became no 1 Test team in the world.Same can't be said of pakistan.

From 2008-2014,I still feel SA were easily the toughest challenge for India in India.SA didn't lost even 1 series away from home in that period.

From 2015-2017(when Misbah and Younis were still playing),Pakistan would've been toughest challenge for India.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

I see what you did there, Pak series win (in 87) had to be negated at all cost lol, the inferiority complex of Indian fans

Why did you quote me? It is a basic way of saying a line, I remember a Pak fan saying that they loose only one home series for 10 years between 2007 to 2017 ,does this mean he was deleting SA series win in 2007.
Seriously if anything you are being insecure.

 

[Monsee]

^^^That rambling doesn't even make any sense?

Why start after 87, why not 90, why not 80, why after 87 to be precise...answer it to yourself and use some common sense as well

 

[Sidilicious]

^^^That rambling doesn't even make any sense?

Why start after 87, why not 90, why not 80, why after 87 to be precise...answer it to yourself and use some common sense as well

Jeez man, you really have chip on your shoulder.

The reason he mentioned 87 was because, it was only after that India became next to invisible at home again. Between 84 and 87 - India lost 3 test series at home. Since then, India has only lost 3 series in over 3 decades.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Jeez man, you really have chip on your shoulder.

The reason he mentioned 87 was because, it was only after that India became next to invisible at home again. Between 84 and 87 - India lost 3 test series at home. Since then, India has only lost 3 series in over 3 decades.

He is right so you yourself have revealed that India lost 6 and not 3 series in nearly three decades. You don’t have such a shameful record when you’re a fortress.

Compare this to Pakistan's Home run and what they achieved in UAE!

 

[Sidilicious]

He is right so you yourself have revealed that India lost 6 and not 3 series in nearly three decades. You don’t have such a shameful record when you’re a fortress.

Compare this to Pakistan's Home run and what they achieved in UAE!

Actually, Pakistan lost 8 test series between 1995 and 2009, when test matches were played in Pakistan.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

^^^That rambling doesn't even make any sense?

Why start after 87, why not 90, why not 80, why after 87 to be precise...answer it to yourself and use some common sense as well

Because that is a way of saying, I took the year after which India went undefeated in a series for 13 straight years, like people say Pak didn't loose series between 80 and 93 something like this .
I will give u another example after series lost to SA 2008 australian commentator said that Australia lost only three series between 94 and 2008 doesn't mean they were deleting 94 Pak series win or india 2008 .
People take best years to show how good that team was in that period.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan in UAE is a bigger and grander forterss. India is a jhuggi jhopri compared to that.

Is or was? They just lost to Sri Lanka, for God sake.

God damn Sri Lanka has a series win there.

You are yet to answer when SL won a series in SA.

 

[Chrish]

Fact remains India haven't played Pakistan; the only team capable of beating them at home and vice versa (UAE fortress etc.)

 

[BreadPakoda]

You know some one is trolling when he calls a top record a jhuggi jhopri.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Fact remains India haven't played Pakistan; the only team capable of beating them at home and vice versa (UAE fortress etc.)

Indians have no answer to this yet.

1. Fortress UAE/Pakistan
2. Fortress Australia
3. Fortress England


Too 3 genuine fortresses in cricket.

End of debate.

Bhaijaan

 

[Ab Fan]

Indians have no answer to this yet.

1. Fortress UAE/Pakistan
2. Fortress Australia
3. Fortress England


Too 3 genuine fortresses in cricket.

End of debate.

Bhaijaan

Please dont mention the home record of Australia alongside those two. It will be blasphemous for Aussies. They should be bracketed alongside South Africa and India only.

 

[Sidilicious]

Indians have no answer to this yet.

1. Fortress UAE/Pakistan
2. Fortress Australia
3. Fortress England


Too 3 genuine fortresses in cricket.

End of debate.

Bhaijaan

What about the fact that Pakistan lost 8 test series at home between 1995 and 2009?

 

[Blitz]

Why do we need people giving their random opinions on something that really is a fact/stat based question.

The answer is India. Here's the last 10 years exactly for Home/Neutral matches: https://ibb.co/je6pvJ

 

[Nikhil_cric]

What a fortress this is. Since 2013, 25 tests won and only 1 lost. 11 consecutive series wins. Teans simply get blasted away here. UAE under Misbah (2010-2017) was nowhere near as good as this. England (2014 - present) is a fortress like Misbah s UAE though. No series lost in this period but very few dominant wins just like Pakistan in UAE.

 

[tyron_woodley]

younis
misbah
yousef
inzi

now that is some crazy middle order. did pakistan lose a test series at home when 3 of these 4 played?

I think only current indian team can beat them. Even then it would be very close. Perhaps a draw.

 

[Bhaijaan]

What a fortress this is. Since 2013, 25 tests won and only 1 lost. 11 consecutive series wins. Teans simply get blasted away here. UAE under Misbah (2010-2017) was nowhere near as good as this. England (2014 - present) is a fortress like Misbah s UAE though. No series lost in this period but very few dominant wins just like Pakistan in UAE.

It is official.

Fortress India now the mightiest in history

11 wins in a row

25/1 since 2013

Hats off

 

[jeetu]

Most consecutive Test series wins at home
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Team [/td][td]Series Wins [/td][td]From [/td][td]To [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India [/td][td]11* [/td][td]Feb-13 [/td][td]- [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]10 [/td][td]Nov-94 [/td][td]Nov-00 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]10 [/td][td]Jul-04 [/td][td]Nov-08 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]8 [/td][td]Mar-76 [/td][td]Feb-86 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]7 [/td][td]May-09 [/td][td]May-12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]7 [/td][td]Mar-98 [/td][td]Nov-01 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[jeetu]

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]vs Team [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]Date [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]Oct-19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]Oct-18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Afghanistan [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]Jun-18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]Nov-17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]Feb-17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]Feb-17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]5 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]Nov-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]3 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]Sep-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]4 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]Nov-15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]Nov-13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]4 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]Feb-13 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Proactive_]

Most consecutive Test series wins at home
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Team [/td][td]Series Wins [/td][td]From [/td][td]To [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India [/td][td]11* [/td][td]Feb-13 [/td][td]- [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]10 [/td][td]Nov-94 [/td][td]Nov-00 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]10 [/td][td]Jul-04 [/td][td]Nov-08 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]8 [/td][td]Mar-76 [/td][td]Feb-86 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]7 [/td][td]May-09 [/td][td]May-12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]7 [/td][td]Mar-98 [/td][td]Nov-01 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Who ended Aussies' run in Nov 00? Don't remember them losing/drawing anything in that time..

 

[Swashbuckler]

Who ended Aussies' run in Nov 00? Don't remember them losing/drawing anything in that time..

Year is wrong. NZ drew a 3 test series in Australia in Nov-Dec 2001. Gave the Aussies quite a scare.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-india-v-new-zealand-2016-17/engine/series/62085.html

 

[jeetu]

Year is wrong. NZ drew a 3 test series in Australia in Nov-Dec 2001. Gave the Aussies quite a scare.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-india-v-new-zealand-2016-17/engine/series/62085.html

That series has pretty interesting bowling figures of Mcgrath , Warne and Bond.
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Bowl Avg [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]B Lee (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]25.14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JN Gillespie (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]28.72 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Vettori (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]33.84 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CD McMillan (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]44.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CL Cairns (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]45.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]NJ Astle (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]54 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ME Waugh (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]64 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GD McGrath (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]65.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SK Warne (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]71.66 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SE Bond (NZ) [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]96.33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CS Martin (NZ) [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]139 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

All 3 failed to perform.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

India is officially the greatest home team of all time. I doubt even 2000s Australia would be able to beat this India at home. Ponting would be Ashwin's bunny, and Hayden would be dismissed by one of the other bowlers. Gilchrist would resist a little bit before getting out. Rest are non-issue.

Warne would get spanked to oblivion and McGrath might give a few scares before either Kohli or Pujara sees him off. Before anybody claims I am overrating Indian batting, just a reminder than we have both Rabada and Philander bowling this series who average 22 in tests (almost same as McGrath, better than Warne).

The only way to beat this India is on rank turners where both teams will get equal chance. Otherwise I don't see any other team even bothering India remotely.

 

[BreadPakoda]

India is officially the greatest home team of all time. I doubt even 2000s Australia would be able to beat this India at home. Ponting would be Ashwin's bunny, and Hayden would be dismissed by one of the other bowlers. Gilchrist would resist a little bit before getting out. Rest are non-issue.

Warne would get spanked to oblivion and McGrath might give a few scares before either Kohli or Pujara sees him off. Before anybody claims I am overrating Indian batting, just a reminder than we have both Rabada and Philander bowling this series who average 22 in tests (almost same as McGrath, better than Warne).

The only way to beat this India is on rank turners where both teams will get equal chance. Otherwise I don't see any other team even bothering India remotely.

Warne getting spanked to oblivion? Warne is no Maharaj or Muthuswamy.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

That series has pretty interesting bowling figures of Mcgrath , Warne and Bond.
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Bowl Avg [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]B Lee (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]25.14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JN Gillespie (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]28.72 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Vettori (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]33.84 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CD McMillan (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]44.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CL Cairns (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]45.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]NJ Astle (NZ) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]54 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ME Waugh (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]64 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GD McGrath (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]65.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SK Warne (AUS) [/td][td]3 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]71.66 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SE Bond (NZ) [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]96.33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CS Martin (NZ) [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]139 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

All 3 failed to perform.

Bond was just debuting that year. Harsh to expect a newbie to perform against that Aussie lineup in Australia of all places.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Warne getting spanked to oblivion? Warne is no Maharaj or Muthuswamy.

Warne averages 43 in India.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Warne averages 43 in India.

Against SRT, Dravid, Kambli, Sidhu, Laxman, Sehwag, Ganguly etc. The greatest batsmen of spin.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Warne getting spanked to oblivion? Warne is no Maharaj or Muthuswamy.

Warne averages 43 in India.

Against SRT, Dravid, Kambli, Sidhu, Laxman, Sehwag, Ganguly etc. The greatest batsmen of spin.

You got carried away there with Shane Wane comment.

I can genuinely see us seeing off even McGrath but Warne? come on this team has been owned by Moeen freaking Ali time and again and you are saying we will smash Warne to oblivion? Monty Panesar and Graham Swann have troubled India. Nathan Lyon has constantly been a pain in the Salman Butt.

Gone are the days when Indians smashed the greatest spinners like they were third rate citizens.

India since the last decade or so has been quite average against spin. After retirement of Yoni and Misbah we are probably once again the best in the works at playing spin but the standards have dropped dramatically.

Shane Warne would destroy this Indian team anywhere in any format.

 

[docteurmanish]

Ok fair enough. I didnt really read the last part of the OP.

Like I said before I agree with a lot of your criticisms of Pakistan cricket. But for some reason your posts about Pakistan are overly negative and at times run people the wrong way.

His posts are most logical of any person out there .he says it as it is . We are surprised when he calls Virat a good captain as most of us indians don’t think him to be a good captain.

If Mamoon were the chief selector of ur team , u would win 50 percent more matches . He is keenly observant , knows facts well and does not build or support myths

I will just add a thought on indian fortress -
To win in india following things have had to happen-

Australia win in india

Luck
- the last day of final test match was washed out . sehwag was in prime form and he would have chased down 200 something but unfortunately that match was drawn and aussie won series by a small margin .

Preparation

The South African side that won in india prepared for 3 months back home on pitches that looked and felt like indian pitches .

Bowlers

Steyn and kaspriwicz were perhaps the best visiting fast bowlers I have seen to exploit conditions . Luck also favored them as centres like bangalore favor bowlers like kasprowics - tall running in bowling cutters into the pitch and steyn played on grounds which favored Umesh skiddy kind. Of bowlers who could swing

Spinners

The ones who were successful in india in last 30 years have been
Swan , english Monty and my favourite saqlain along with pat symcox ( not many remember how much he could control indian batters in one day and in tests but less wicket taker)
All were finger spinners and had few similarities

Large turn - Monty and swan had huge fingers with crazy revolutions and fast turn
Saqlain was perhaps the best legal spinner of the subcontinent along with kumble and he was a fox . See how sachin struggled against him

Batting

Most visiting teams who won here won cos as a unit they batted well with one or two outstanding players of their generation in tests
Cook in prime form is an example

Finally indian team composition

A closer look would reveal that india is most vulnerable when

- grounds man made a pitch suitable for visitors - india has now corrected that with a pace battery that is better than most teams and as good as Australia

- key players injured - this too is less of an issue as Virat changes players per venue and a substitute is available for each position - Saha has 5 keepers who can take his spot tomorrow and Rohit is replaceable with shaw .

The team who won with sheer talent preparation and can still demolish this current indian team was the english team under KP cook swan and Monty - though wity bumrah shami and Ishant 2 it will be tough for them too .

Compared to that winning in Australia is actually not that difficult

U need 3 wicket taking fast bowlers
Hold ur catches
One spinner who can exert control and take wickets wen pitch wears
One wk keeper batsman like pant who can win u games ( lower order batting at 5-8 is very crucial in aussie )
Batters who can stick arnd and wear out aussie guys

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Against SRT, Dravid, Kambli, Sidhu, Laxman, Sehwag, Ganguly etc. The greatest batsmen of spin.

Kohli, Pujara etc all average far higher at home than the ones you mentioned above. Kohli averages 100+ at home since 2016.