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India sponsors terrorism in Pakistan, avoids peace talks on flimsy grounds: FM Qureshi tells UNGA

English is desirable for Indians because there are too may languages (literally 100s) unlike say Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. Hindi is spoken in North (primarily) and West (2nd or 3rd language) but what about North East and South India? There is a reason why most of us prefer a language like English which is common footing. Under Modi government there is a shift towards Hindi and at least in Tamil Nadu and Kerala there is heavy opposition. Under Congress (pan India, tolerant compared to BJP) government English was common but these days in international platforms Hindi is being given a push by the Hindi chauvinists.

Most people in India do not understand English at all other then a few words here and there. Much greater chance that people from various linguistic backgrounds will understand some Hindi then any other language. As much as you will insist English in not a unifying force in your country, not at all. Face facts, you suffer from a much greater western complex then Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh do. Let go of your obsession with "Angreji" as Indian people call it instead celebrate your own various languages. You will never be westerners no matter how hard you try.
 
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We had little infrastructure and no real army and we took a 3rd of Kashmir back. I call that eating alive

You took it from the king of kashmir. Pak army was within few kms of srinagar when Indian army was airlifted to kashmir. They pushed you to the northern 3rd.

Go read some history.

Eating alive. Lol.
 
You took it from the king of kashmir. Pak army was within few kms of srinagar when Indian army was airlifted to kashmir. They pushed you to the northern 3rd.

Go read some history.

Eating alive. Lol.

After partition the Indian army was basically the British army with all the equipment, ours wasnt. We had nothing and still took a 3rd.
 
After partition the Indian army was basically the British army with all the equipment, ours wasnt. We had nothing and still took a 3rd.

Pakistan also got the british army. Go read history
 
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UN chief voices concern over the situation in IHK as he heads to India

United Nations (UN) Secretary General Antonio Guterres, who begins a three-day official visit to India today, expressed concern over the situation in India-held Kashmir (IHK), and encouraged "positive dialogue" for the peaceful settlement of the ongoing dispute.

In an interview with an Indian journalist in New York, the UN secretary general said: "I remain concerned by the situation in Jammu and Kashmir I encourage positive dialogue for disagreements to be resolved peacefully."

Earlier this year, the first-ever UN report on alleged rights violations committed by both India and Pakistan in Kashmir released last month focuses mainly on IHK, and accuses Indian troops of being responsible for an estimated 145 unlawful killings, far surpassing the 20 people estimated to have been killed by militant groups during that period.

Indian authorities had dismissed the report as 'fallacious, tendentious and motivated', a UN press release noted, "Without examining it and responding to the very serious concerns about the human rights situation." The UN added: "We have been deeply disappointed by the reaction of the Indian authorities."

According to the UN press release, the report ─ which was developed through remote monitoring, after Indian and Pakistani authorities failed to grant the UN team unconditional access to the region ─ contains 388 footnotes that list the sources used in its compilation.

The UN chief will be in India from October 1-3 during which he will meet with President Ram Nath Kovind, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and External Affairs Minister Minister Sushma Swaraj.

His visit coincides with the beginning of events to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the birth of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi on October 2, 2019.

On October 3, the UN chief will visit the Golden Temple in Amritsar. Deputy Spokesperson for the UN Secretary General Farhan Haq said Guterres' visit to the Golden temple will be a personal one.

Guterres will return to New York on October 4.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1436144/u...ver-the-situation-in-ihk-as-he-heads-to-india
 
Must have been refreshing for UN member states to listen to the true version for once.
 
Losing out? You got everything according to the proportion of land and population.

No we didnt, read up on how parts of Punjab were taken from us when the boundaries were drawn up. PK was done over by the closeness of Lady Mountbatten to Nehru as Lord Mountbatten was batting for the other side. Your knowledge of history is on par with the your evidences provided for the surgical strike. Btw Where is the evidence you promised?
 
No we didnt, read up on how parts of Punjab were taken from us when the boundaries were drawn up. PK was done over by the closeness of Lady Mountbatten to Nehru as Lord Mountbatten was batting for the other side. Your knowledge of history is on par with the your evidences provided for the surgical strike. Btw Where is the evidence you promised?

Bhai you need litle bit of patience to make a bollywood movie it takes time that will be the the evidence:trollface
 
No we didnt, read up on how parts of Punjab were taken from us when the boundaries were drawn up. PK was done over by the closeness of Lady Mountbatten to Nehru as Lord Mountbatten was batting for the other side. Your knowledge of history is on par with the your evidences provided for the surgical strike. Btw Where is the evidence you promised?

What parts of punjab? Hindu majority areas ended up with Pakistan.

Evidence was given to people who mattered.
 
Lol. The army was divided between the countries. Is this what they taught you in Pakistan?

Why don't you provide us with your view instead of mere ridicule. From your response I assume the British Indian Army wasn't "divided".

Which does make me curious. Either the British predominantly only deemed the Muslim population of British-India to be fit enough for military and then those Muslim soldiers naturally chose Pakistan after the partition. Or even more wierd the non-Muslim part of British Indian Army chose to be part of Pakistan's army despite the religious element surrounding the partition.

Since Muslims were a minority in British-India it is only natural to think British army would have far less Muslim soldiers than non-Muslim ones. And after the partition the army men chose their allegiance according to their religion. Or is the reality not that simple?
 
What parts of punjab? Hindu majority areas ended up with Pakistan.

Evidence was given to people who mattered.

Lahore was only hindu and sikhs dominated area since centuries ,even after all the invasions, till 1947. Everyone knows lahore was named after the son of Lord Rama. Then that is the place nearby at present where Guru nanak dev ji were born. we punjabis have strong connection towards lahore.
 
I think Pakistan should invade India and silence the Joshilas and Shadows by taking back what is rightfully theirs.
I don't think Indians would stand a chance against battle hardened Pakistani army where every soldier is equal to 10 Indians in physical prowess.
 
Lahore was only hindu and sikhs dominated area since centuries ,even after all the invasions, till 1947. Everyone knows lahore was named after the son of Lord Rama. Then that is the place nearby at present where Guru nanak dev ji were born. we punjabis have strong connection towards lahore.

Lahore was fifty-fifty Hindu/Sikh (if you consider both together), like Amritsar. Gurdaspur was a slight Muslim majority district which went to India because of Mountbatten/Nehru, it's accepted by all objective analysts, as without Gurdaspur India would have no direct land access to Kashmir (which mattered during the '48 war).

And there are many traditions about the naming of Lahore, the one you expose being one, but if India keeps +100 places named after Aurangzeb it so much reviles (incl. a large city in Maharashtra which hosts the famed Ajanta caves), we can extend this tolerance to dead Hindu deities as well.

Everything cultural (architecture, food, etc) in Lahore has been done mainly during its Islamic period, with few British and even less Sikh inputs later on, so I don't know what's your "connection" as a Hindu in terms of culture with Lahore.
 
Why don't you provide us with your view instead of mere ridicule. From your response I assume the British Indian Army wasn't "divided".

Which does make me curious. Either the British predominantly only deemed the Muslim population of British-India to be fit enough for military and then those Muslim soldiers naturally chose Pakistan after the partition. Or even more wierd the non-Muslim part of British Indian Army chose to be part of Pakistan's army despite the religious element surrounding the partition.

Since Muslims were a minority in British-India it is only natural to think British army would have far less Muslim soldiers than non-Muslim ones. And after the partition the army men chose their allegiance according to their religion. Or is the reality not that simple?

The british army was divided proportionately. Ofcourse many muslims left India and joined Pakistan while Sikhs and Hindus did the opposite.

Indian army was later bolstered when big princely states with their army merged into the Indian army.
 
Lahore was fifty-fifty Hindu/Sikh (if you consider both together), like Amritsar. Gurdaspur was a slight Muslim majority district which went to India because of Mountbatten/Nehru, it's accepted by all objective analysts, as without Gurdaspur India would have no direct land access to Kashmir (which mattered during the '48 war).

And there are many traditions about the naming of Lahore, the one you expose being one, but if India keeps +100 places named after Aurangzeb it so much reviles (incl. a large city in Maharashtra which hosts the famed Ajanta caves), we can extend this tolerance to dead Hindu deities as well.

Everything cultural (architecture, food, etc) in Lahore has been done mainly during its Islamic period, with few British and even less Sikh inputs later on, so I don't know what's your "connection" as a Hindu in terms of culture with Lahore.

I already told you hindus connection with lahore. I dnt think you muslims consider aurangzeb as some god or phobhet. I am not sure about this. This is the state of hypocrtisy of indian secularism which rss wants to logically settle down .

A muslim ruler aurangzeb who killed millions of hindus and sikhs gurus and many places in india are still named after him even after the creation of pakistan .
I dnt think Lord rama son killed any muslim there because there were no muslims living at that time
. So it wud be illogical to remove the city name and name it related to some arab name. And what culture of lahore ????


We have lived here centuries before invasions so i am not sure that culture only came after british or mughals.
So irrelevant comparisons.
 
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I think Pakistan should invade India and silence the Joshilas and Shadows by taking back what is rightfully theirs.
I don't think Indians would stand a chance against battle hardened Pakistani army where every soldier is equal to 10 Indians in physical prowess.

If it was a sword fight it would be easy :afridi

What is stupid is you have an army many times more powerful because of far superiour military hardware yet it cannot take land occupied by the much smaller enemy. Shoulnd't this lead to the logical conclusion, no victory will ever come so make peace and forget the past complex of being ruled by others?
 
If it was a sword fight it would be easy :afridi

What is stupid is you have an army many times more powerful because of far superiour military hardware yet it cannot take land occupied by the much smaller enemy. Shoulnd't this lead to the logical conclusion, no victory will ever come so make peace and forget the past complex of being ruled by others?

How many times india tried?
 
If it was a sword fight it would be easy :afridi

What is stupid is you have an army many times more powerful because of far superiour military hardware yet it cannot take land occupied by the much smaller enemy. Shoulnd't this lead to the logical conclusion, no victory will ever come so make peace and forget the past complex of being ruled by others?

IMO In a sword fight we would easily smash you.
My ancestors served in the North West for a long time and used to beat Pashtuns for fun. Not really a challenge if you ask me.
 
How many times india tried?

Why haven't they tried? India were willing to make up stories of surgical strikes in Pakistan because of 'terrorism' but are happy for their land to be occupied decades?

IMO In a sword fight we would easily smash you.
My ancestors served in the North West for a long time and used to beat Pashtuns for fun. Not really a challenge if you ask me.

I disagree. I dont know about your ancestors but a people of certain faith are not known for being conquerors but the opposite as being conquered. It would save a lot of trouble though and more sensible than going to the UN every other Sunday.
 
Why haven't they tried? India were willing to make up stories of surgical strikes in Pakistan because of 'terrorism' but are happy for their land to be occupied decades?



I disagree. I dont know about your ancestors but a people of certain faith are not known for being conquerors but the opposite as being conquered. It would save a lot of trouble though and more sensible than going to the UN every other Sunday.

I'm not gonna argue with that since it displays your lack of knowledge on important historical topics as well as showcases the inherent racism.

But yes if it helps you sleep better at night then no issues.
 
I already told you hindus connection with lahore. I dnt think you muslims consider aurangzeb as some god or phobhet. I am not sure about this. This is the state of hypocrtisy of indian secularism which rss wants to logically settle down .

Aurangzeb has been historically considered a "wali" ("saint") by many Muslims. He was a pious devout of Islam, who during his last years use to write down the Qur'an as a religious act.

He was the greatest among all Mughal emperors as well as the wealthiest among all his contemporary kings. He was a pious Muslim, a religious scholar, a Sūfī and a walī (Muslim saint). He was a great king, an excellent general, and the best administrator.

http://maktabah.org/blog/?p=2185

And the RSS can't even remove Jinnah's portrait from an Indian university, they'll take time to take down the +100 villages/towns named after Aurangzeb. They're only aiming for roads as of now.

A muslim ruler aurangzeb who killed millions of hindus and sikhs gurus and many places in india are still named after him even after the creation of pakistan .
I dnt think Lord rama son killed any muslim there because there were no muslims living at that time
. So it wud be illogical to remove the city name and name it related to some arab name. And what culture of lahore ????

I don't think he killed millions, you're giving him to much credit, probably the whole of Mughal killings. I think he restrained himself to 100 000s.

And yes, if it's proven that Lahore name is after some dead Hindu deity (again, it's just one of the many hypothesis), then yes Lahore should be renamed. Aurangabad would be a good option.

We have lived here centuries before invasions so i am not sure that culture only came after british or mughals.
So irrelevant comparisons.

I mean cities like New Delhi, Lucknow, ... had Muslim minorities (even if ruling through force and coercion), not even majorities, and yet without Islamic culture these cities would look totally different, and probably wouldn't even have a reputation at all.

But Lahore is mainly Islamic and with some British/Sikh, I don't see how Hindu culture impacted it, despite the population. Perhaps one or two temples here. That was my point, that Hindu cultural impact on Lahore is limited despite the numbers. Also Lahore had no real culture before the Ghaznavid invasion in the 11-12th centuries, which pushed for Persian literary activities there, it's not an old-city like Multan let's say.
 
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I'm not gonna argue with that since it displays your lack of knowledge on important historical topics as well as showcases the inherent racism.

But yes if it helps you sleep better at night then no issues.

Im only going by history taught in UK schools and not by the RSS. But my point was simple, it's best for India to make peace because no conquest of Pakistan or destruction will ever come out of it, no matter how many Kashmiris are raped or how many terrorists are sent from Afghanistan. The foolishness of the Hindutva far right shouldnt be followed by all Indians.
 
Aurangzeb has been historically considered a "wali" ("saint") by many Muslims. He was a pious devout of Islam, who during his last years use to write down the Qur'an as a religious act.



http://maktabah.org/blog/?p=2185

And the RSS can't even remove Jinnah's portrait from an Indian university, they'll take time to take down the +100 villages/towns named after Aurangzeb. They're only aiming for roads as of now.



I don't think he killed millions, you're giving him to much credit, probably the whole of Mughal killings. I think he restrained himself to 100 000s.

And yes, if it's proven that Lahore name is after some dead Hindu deity (again, it's just one of the many hypothesis), then yes Lahore should be renamed. Aurangabad would be a good option.



I mean cities like New Delhi, Lucknow, ... had Muslim minorities (even if ruling through force and coercion), not even majorities, and yet without Islamic culture these cities would look totally different, and probably wouldn't even have a reputation at all.

But Lahore is mainly Islamic and with some British/Sikh, I don't see how Hindu culture impacted it, despite the population. Perhaps one or two temples here. That was my point, that Hindu cultural impact on Lahore is limited despite the numbers. Also Lahore had no real culture before the Ghaznavid invasion in the 11-12th centuries, which pushed for Persian literary activities there, it's not an old-city like Multan let's say.

Yeah he is a saint who killed sikhs gurus ? He cud not convert some sikh gurus and we all know what he had done to them .
He must be a saint as per your culture.

We belong to indus valley civilization which is almosy the oldest cilvilization in the world. And you are telling me about the culture. Are you kidding me. This is hilarious.

Offcourse if you have almost zero hindus and sikhs population remaining in pakistan then how wud the culture remain there . Uncountable number of temples has been demolished by your so called saints and you say only 2 are remaining.

Dnt worry about your saint name in india and Mr jinnah name. We have started to target psedu seculars and snakes in our country and nobody gives a damn when someone equate this to insecular .we will teach secularism the real secularism india is known for since last 5000 years.
Good luck to your ghazva e hind etc things
 
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Yeah he is a saint who killed sikhs gurus ? He cud not convert some sikh gurus and we all know what he had done to them .
He must be a saint as per your culture.

We belong to indus valley civilization which is almosy the oldest cilvilization in the world. And you are telling me about the culture. Are you kidding me. This is hilarious.

Offcourse if you have almost zero hindus and sikhs population remaining in pakistan then how wud the culture remain there . Uncountable number of temples has been demolished by your so called saints and you say only 2 are remaining.

Dnt worry about your saint name in india and Mr jinnah name. We have started to target psedu seculars and snakes in our country and nobody gives a damn when someone equate this to insecular .we will teach secularism the real secularism india is known for since last 5000 years.
Good luck to your ghazva e hind etc things

That's their definition of a "saint". Don't be surprised.
 
Why haven't they tried? India were willing to make up stories of surgical strikes in Pakistan because of 'terrorism' but are happy for their land to be occupied decades?



I disagree. I dont know about your ancestors but a people of certain faith are not known for being conquerors but the opposite as being conquered. It would save a lot of trouble though and more sensible than going to the UN every other Sunday.

So why has not india tried is the question raised by the victim country ? I thought pakistan was a peaceful country while india always kept running away from peace?

Man if we have 1000 arguments with you guys. Trust me you cant even defend one. It just shows your hypocritsy ,lack of knowledge, self identity crisis ,brainwashing.

Irony is you are asking the question that why india never tried to attack pakistan lmao
 
Good luck to your ghazva e hind etc things

I think luck is not needed here. Perhaps it's about invading not conquering. Now, India is Pak army's ticket to heaven. I suppose Bin Qasim already got his ticket & enjoying ginger ale in paradise.

It was narrated that Thawban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), said: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'There are two groups of my Ummah whom Allah will free from the Fire: The group that invades India, and the group that will be with 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him.'"Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3175
 
Aurangzeb has been historically considered a "wali" ("saint") by many Muslims. He was a pious devout of Islam, who during his last years use to write down the Qur'an as a religious act.



http://maktabah.org/blog/?p=2185

I don't think he killed millions, you're giving him to much credit, probably the whole of Mughal killings. I think he restrained himself to 100 000s.


That explains a lot. :moali
 
I think luck is not needed here. Perhaps it's about invading not conquering. Now, India is Pak army's ticket to heaven. I suppose Bin Qasim already got his ticket & enjoying ginger ale in paradise.

It was narrated that Thawban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), said: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'There are two groups of my Ummah whom Allah will free from the Fire: The group that invades India, and the group that will be with 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him.'"Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3175

There is something seriously wrong with these guys. Seriously wrong. And they dnt even dare to address it .
 
All I want is it to be a 'live and let live' kind of situation. I'm sick and tired of the way both the nations have been at each other's throats since the 1965' war. Just stop the nonsense and mind your own business without poking your nose at the other one's matters. Unfortunately, neither of the 2 nations wants to do so.
 
Yeah he is a saint who killed sikhs gurus ? He cud not convert some sikh gurus and we all know what he had done to them .
He must be a saint as per your culture.

He didn't kill Sikh Gurus, but one, and he killed him for the same reason the British killed Bhagat Singh or that you call for the death of Kashmiri separatists (the difference being that nor the Mughals nor the British have been proposing demographic replacement like Hindus on this forum do.) Guru Gobind Singh was threatening the central authority (claiming tax should be paid to him, and so on), and so he was treated as a "baghi". That's how late-modern/contemporary texts portray it. The whole religious angle is absent, until late (including "he wanted to protect Kashmri Pandits from converting", as if it was the aim of any Islamic power, Pandit exodus wouldn't have happened so late.)

Also being a "saint" has to do with one's spirituality.

We belong to indus valley civilization which is almosy the oldest cilvilization in the world. And you are telling me about the culture. Are you kidding me. This is hilarious.

There's no direct and palpable connection between the IVC and modern Hinduism, which is itself quite an amalgam of different stuff.

Offcourse if you have almost zero hindus and sikhs population remaining in pakistan then how wud the culture remain there . Uncountable number of temples has been demolished by your so called saints and you say only 2 are remaining.

I'm just saying there's nothing really Hindu in Lahore (in terms of architecture, etc), despite the population you project, and even the name from Rama's son is a dubious tradition.

Dnt worry about your saint name in india and Mr jinnah name. We have started to target psedu seculars and snakes in our country and nobody gives a damn when someone equate this to insecular .we will teach secularism the real secularism india is known for since last 5000 years.
Good luck to your ghazva e hind etc things

You can teach secularism to Dalits first, but it's none of our concern, your country your rules.
 
He didn't kill Sikh Gurus, but one, and he killed him for the same reason the British killed Bhagat Singh or that you call for the death of Kashmiri separatists (the difference being that nor the Mughals nor the British have been proposing demographic replacement like Hindus on this forum do.) Guru Gobind Singh was threatening the central authority (claiming tax should be paid to him, and so on), and so he was treated as a "baghi". That's how late-modern/contemporary texts portray it. The whole religious angle is absent, until late (including "he wanted to protect Kashmri Pandits from converting", as if it was the aim of any Islamic power, Pandit exodus wouldn't have happened so late.)

Also being a "saint" has to do with one's spirituality.



There's no direct and palpable connection between the IVC and modern Hinduism, which is itself quite an amalgam of different stuff.



I'm just saying there's nothing really Hindu in Lahore (in terms of architecture, etc), despite the population you project, and even the name from Rama's son is a dubious tradition.



You can teach secularism to Dalits first, but it's none of our concern, your country your rules.

I always used to think you make stuff as you go along (since it's a cricket forum and therefore majority of the members wouldn't be familiar with such topics) and turns out I wasn't wrong.

Guru Govind Singh wasn't killed by Aurangzeb. It was Guru Tegh Bahadur whose execution he ordered whereby he was arrested and beheaded at Delhi in Nov 1675. And I suppose you would call the act of Faujdar of Sirhind Wazir Khan , saintly too who under Aurangzeb's orders captured Guru Govind Singh's two sons(both aged below 10) and when they refused to convert, brutally killed them.
Mashallah what a saintly act.

And a big LOL at comparison with Bhagat Singh. BRITISH for all their faults didn't claim to be the champions of christianity in India and neither were their policies aimed at subjugation of people from other religions. Aurangzeb on the other hand(in order to rally the Subcontinental Muslims) repeatedly invoked Islam whenever he felt it necessary. He reintroduced Jaziya which was as inhuman a tax as can get and not to mention the temple destruction spree he went on which destroyed countless new and old ones including the famous Kashi Vishwanath of Benaras and Keshav Rai of Mathura built by Veer Singh Bundela.


The prime reason why Mughal emperors came into conflict with the Sikh Gurus was religion. The ulama were concerned about the rapid rise of status of Gurus who by the time of Shah Jahan had started to command a considerable following and who facilitated lots of conversions from Islam. This threatened and made bigots and hypocrites like Qazi Abdul Wahab quite envious of their power. This lead to growing hostilities towards Sikhs which eventually culminated into founding of a militant brotherhood in the form of Khalsa in Anandpur in 1699.

Oh and I almost forgot how Jahangir nonchalantly ordered Guru Arjun Dev to accept Islam and when he rejected the offer, the poor guy was killed in a brutal manner.

You again show your ignorance by rejecting the Hindu heritage of Lahore which has been an important trade center and prosperous town since the ancient times. It had majestic Temples and architecture which was destroyed in various Turkic and Mongol raids in the 13th century. I suppose they forgot to mention that in the madarsa you visit.
 
The similarities between IVC and later day Hinduism:

1. Seal of Proto Shiva which depicts a man with a elaborate headgear in a Yogic posture. He is surrounded by variety of animals and according to various Scholars has definitely to do with the later day Shiva of Hindu religious scriptures.

2. Presence of fire altars in sites such as Kalibangan etc. Fire altars came to dominate later day Vedic religion as sacrifices became an important part of the religion and they are continued even to the present day.

3. Statue of Mother Goddess who have been linked with the Vedic goddesses of Aditi and Usha.

4. Bronze statue of dancing girl from Mohanjodaro. The girl is standing in a Tribhanga Posture which interestingly is featured a lot in classical Indian dances such as Bharatnatyam and Odissi esp the later.

5. Presence of lingas and Yonis which have a tremendous significance in Shavism.
 
Pretty sure the Nazis too could have been saints if they coupled their deeds with spirituality.

Sadly they weren't. The upper limit to be saint is if you restrain yourself at 100,000 killings. Those morons otoh dealt in millions. I suppose they could be Super Saints?
 
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] Hitler was himself pretty spiritual (and very much pro Islam), but because of Himmler's influence Nazism itself was pretty much a pagan movement, they weren't doing jihad.

[MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION] nothing wrong with how the Mughals dealt with Sikhs, that's how you want the Indian state to deal with Kashmiris and that's why you call for demographic change, and no Lahore wasn't a center of anything before the Ghaznavid invasions in the 11th century, and there's literally more British influences on Lahore and even Sikh than Hindu ones. Even the few textual references which make Lahore a "great city" (in what sense anyway ?) date from the Islamic period. As for temples you're talking as if it had something comparable to Multan's sun temple (I also don't condemn its destruction btw).

As for the IVC, you talk of stuff common to all civilizations after the Neolithic revolution, that is, the worship of a sort of mother goddess and its sexual theology centered around phallic symbolism. That doesn't mean you can translate it into Hinduism, with its scriptures, rituals, cow-worship, etc it's a big leap. If Sikhism which is a by product of Bhakti Hinduism and Sufi Islam doesn't look much like either, to say that the genealogy between the IVC and Hinduism is that clear is prosperous. In fact some Hindu reformists of the 19th century even saw a difference between "Vedism" and Hinduism, let alone the IVC of which we have literally no idea of its religious and spiritual life.
 
[MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION] Again comprehension issues on your part. The dealing of Indian state with Kashmiris doesn't have a religious element in it and it's purely a matter of administrative concern. India doesn't persecute Kashmiris because of their religion or to spread Hinduism in the valley. Mughal Emperors on the other hand saw the newly emergent Panth of Sikhism as a threat to the Islamic hegemony in Punjab and hence their repetitive interventions in their personal matters which led to the martyrdom of two Sikh Gurus.

Lahore was an important trade center and major city under Shahi Kings. It had been part of various Ganas or confederations which emerged in the Post Mauryan period such as Yaudheyas and Arjunayanas. It's destruction at the hands of Turks and Mongols(primarily) reduced it's importance considerably and was re emerged as an important town only after Khiljis.

Yes I absolutely can because this is what early Hinduism or shall I say Vedic religion was based upon. They personified forces of nature worshipping them as the mature Harappans did. The IVC culture didn't disappear all of a sudden and it's decline continued till the migrations of Vedic people and there is sufficient evidence to suggest that both were contemporaries (for example Cemetery H culture of Punjab)
 
[MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION] Again comprehension issues on your part. The dealing of Indian state with Kashmiris doesn't have a religious element in it and it's purely a matter of administrative concern. India doesn't persecute Kashmiris because of their religion or to spread Hinduism in the valley. Mughal Emperors on the other hand saw the newly emergent Panth of Sikhism as a threat to the Islamic hegemony in Punjab and hence their repetitive interventions in their personal matters which led to the martyrdom of two Sikh Gurus.

The Hindu state treatment of Kashmiris is the same as that of the Dogras (who betrayed your beloved Sikhs to get the lands btw). They won't treat Hindus elsewhere the same way. And Islamic supremacy is now efficient in a large parts of Punjab, where there are no more Hindus and Sikhs.

Lahore was an important trade center and major city under Shahi Kings. It had been part of various Ganas or confederations which emerged in the Post Mauryan period such as Yaudheyas and Arjunayanas. It's destruction at the hands of Turks and Mongols(primarily) reduced it's importance considerably and was re emerged as an important town only after Khiljis.

You base yourself on Islamic period texts, and we don't know what an "important trade center" means (who said that ?), but it was not the Lahore of the later centuries, the one with culture, architecture, ... all talk about, which has an overtly Islamic imprint, like Delhi, Lucknow, etc cities with Hindu flavors would be Varanasi or Patna.

Yes I absolutely can because this is what early Hinduism or shall I say Vedic religion was based upon. They personified forces of nature worshipping them as the mature Harappans did. The IVC culture didn't disappear all of a sudden and it's decline continued till the migrations of Vedic people and there is sufficient evidence to suggest that both were contemporaries (for example Cemetery H culture of Punjab)

That's a personal and subjective Hindutvadi reading of history. British colonialists said that Hinduism as a phenomenon was a modern experience, and Andrew Nicholson, who has been plagiarized by Rajiv Malhotra you listen a bit too much, even if he moderates the colonial scholarship, still doesn't portray Hinduism as the continuity you try to portray. You have all rights to believe that Hinduism is 2 millions years old or something but it's not an academic consensus.
 
The Hindu state treatment of Kashmiris is the same as that of the Dogras (who betrayed your beloved Sikhs to get the lands btw). They won't treat Hindus elsewhere the same way. And Islamic supremacy is now efficient in a large parts of Punjab, where there are no more Hindus and Sikhs.



You base yourself on Islamic period texts, and we don't know what an "important trade center" means (who said that ?), but it was not the Lahore of the later centuries, the one with culture, architecture, ... all talk about, which has an overtly Islamic imprint, like Delhi, Lucknow, etc cities with Hindu flavors would be Varanasi or Patna.



That's a personal and subjective Hindutvadi reading of history. British colonialists said that Hinduism as a phenomenon was a modern experience, and Andrew Nicholson, who has been plagiarized by Rajiv Malhotra you listen a bit too much, even if he moderates the colonial scholarship, still doesn't portray Hinduism as the continuity you try to portray. You have all rights to believe that Hinduism is 2 millions years old or something but it's not an academic consensus.

1. Nice goal shifting there. I didn't even mention Dogras in my post. I get it now, all you do is rely on hyperbole and beating around the bush.

2. Oh so it's about Islamic imprint now. Nice try.

3. Again putting words in my mouth. I consider both British Colonialists and Rajiv Malhotra as propagandists. Why can't you simply stay on topic?
 
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