"(Indian) Muslims should go to Pakistan or Bangladesh" : BJP MP Vinay Katiyar

[Abdullah719]

New Delhi: Bharatiya Janata Party’s rabble-rouser MP Vinay Katiyar has made yet another controversial comment calling for the destruction of the Taj Mahal in Agra, adding that only the temple ‘Tejo Mahal” should exist in its place.

Vinay Katiyar, who has previously claimed that the famous mausoleum in Agra was a Hindu temple called “Tejo Mahal,” made this comment when asked about the 'Taj Mahostav' being held in Agra.

“There is not much of a difference between ‘Taj’ and ‘Tej’. It is a good thing that a festival is being organised but this Taj Mahal is not the one that existed during the time of Aurangzeb. It was our temple. Now it has become a cremation ground. A time will come when the cremation ground inside the Taj will be destroyed by some administrator. Only our temple will exist and only the pillars that exist around it will stand,” Katiyar stated.

This is not the first time the BJP MP has called for the Taj Mahal’s destruction and he is not the only party leader to target the monument.

BJP MLA Sangeet Som triggered controversy when he had stated that the Taj Mahal was built by “traitors” and that it cannot be a part of the Indian history.

Both the leaders, however, were handed a snub when Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath mentioned clearly that Taj Mahal is a part of India's heritage and it does not matter who built it.

http://www.timesnownews.com/india/v...atiyar-agra-uttar-pradesh-taj-mahostav/195705

 

[www787]

Would be surprise if government will allow it happen, but you never know since extremism is on the rise in India.

 

[troodon]

Isn’t this Vinay guy also the vhp head?

An A grade idiot.

 

[Slog]

lets see if it happens

 

[CricketCartoons]

Although Taj Mahal stands for artistic terrorism, using art to remind the natives that they were ruled over, razing it down will reflect poorly on us. Let it stand as a symbol of our forgiveness.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

lets see if it happens

Even this guy hasn't said to raze it as far as I can see, he simply wants to rename it Tejo Mahal. That would be in line with Hindutva ideology, similar to incorporating Buddhism into Hinduism.

 

[DRsohail]

sick mindede people.

 

[R3verse Swing]

So if Taj Mahal is torn down then surely tourism in India will be reduced to rubble! Excuse the pun!

 

[Saeed]

Even this guy hasn't said to raze it as far as I can see, he simply wants to rename it Tejo Mahal. That would be in line with Hindutva ideology, similar to incorporating Buddhism into Hinduism.

Seems like Vincent Katiyar is a huge fan of Goodness gracious me.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Clear rise of fascism in India. Joke democracy to say the least. We should give Muslims from India the opportunity to move to Pakistan.

 

[Abdullah719]

More words of wisdom from this guy! /s




'Muslims should not even be living in this country, they should go to Pakistan or Bangladesh,' says BJP MP Vinay Katiyar

NEW DELHI: BJP MP Vinay Katiyar said today that "Muslims should not even be living in this country, they should go to Pakistan or Bangladesh", reported ANI.

Katiyar, who founded the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's (VHP) youth wing, Bajrang Dal, further said a bill should be introduced in Parliament that frames a punishment for those "who do not respect Vande Mataram, (and) those who insult the national flag, or hoist the Pakistani flag."

Katiyar's comment was a response to AIMIM president Asaduddin Owaisi demanded the framing of a law to punish anyone who calls an Indian Muslim a "Pakistani".

Without referring to Owaisi, Katiyar further said that "Muslims partitioned the country" on religious lines.

"Muslims shouldn't even be living in this country, they're the ones who partitioned this country based on their population, so why do they need to live here? They were given separate territory, they should go to Pakistan or Bangladesh, what business do they have here," said Katiyar.

Yesterday, the AIMIM's Owaisi, who was speaking in the Lok Sabha , advocated a three-year jail term for anyone found guilty of calling an Indian Muslim a 'Pakistani'.

"Even after 70 years I am called a Pakistani. Why? We rejected (Pakistan founder Mohammad ALi) Jinnah's invitation. Now I can't even hoist the tricolour at free will. Why can't there be a law just like those that apply to SC/STs?" asked Owaisi, according to Times Now.

Owasi's comments came days after Bareilly's district magistrate (DM) questioned the "trend" of "entering Muslim localities by force+ , raising anti-Pakistan slogans and then creating a ruckus". The DM, Raghvendra Vikram Singh, was speaking in the context of the religious violence in Uttar Pradesh's Kasganj that began January 26.

" A very strange trend has started of late. Take out processions by force through Muslim dominated localities and raise anti-Pakistan slogans. Why? Are these people Pakistani? The same thing had happened in Khailam village of Bareilly. Then stones were pelted, FIRs lodged," wrote Singh in a Facebook post that he later deleted after facing severe criticism.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...bjp-mp-vinay-katiyar/articleshow/62815998.cms

 

[KingKhanWC]

If you had to make seperate threads every time a BJP clown opens their mouth, the whole section would be littered

BJP continue to demonise Indian Muslims, while Indian Muslims continue to be mute. Nobody will stand up for them if they cant stand up for themselves.

 

[moghul]

Or carve out another country out of current India for the Muslims in India if you can't stand them.

 

[R3verse Swing]

More words of wisdom from this guy! /s




'Muslims should not even be living in this country, they should go to Pakistan or Bangladesh,' says BJP MP Vinay Katiyar

NEW DELHI: BJP MP Vinay Katiyar said today that "Muslims should not even be living in this country, they should go to Pakistan or Bangladesh", reported ANI.

Katiyar, who founded the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's (VHP) youth wing, Bajrang Dal, further said a bill should be introduced in Parliament that frames a punishment for those "who do not respect Vande Mataram, (and) those who insult the national flag, or hoist the Pakistani flag."

Katiyar's comment was a response to AIMIM president Asaduddin Owaisi demanded the framing of a law to punish anyone who calls an Indian Muslim a "Pakistani".

Without referring to Owaisi, Katiyar further said that "Muslims partitioned the country" on religious lines.

"Muslims shouldn't even be living in this country, they're the ones who partitioned this country based on their population, so why do they need to live here? They were given separate territory, they should go to Pakistan or Bangladesh, what business do they have here," said Katiyar.

Yesterday, the AIMIM's Owaisi, who was speaking in the Lok Sabha , advocated a three-year jail term for anyone found guilty of calling an Indian Muslim a 'Pakistani'.

"Even after 70 years I am called a Pakistani. Why? We rejected (Pakistan founder Mohammad ALi) Jinnah's invitation. Now I can't even hoist the tricolour at free will. Why can't there be a law just like those that apply to SC/STs?" asked Owaisi, according to Times Now.

Owasi's comments came days after Bareilly's district magistrate (DM) questioned the "trend" of "entering Muslim localities by force+ , raising anti-Pakistan slogans and then creating a ruckus". The DM, Raghvendra Vikram Singh, was speaking in the context of the religious violence in Uttar Pradesh's Kasganj that began January 26.

" A very strange trend has started of late. Take out processions by force through Muslim dominated localities and raise anti-Pakistan slogans. Why? Are these people Pakistani? The same thing had happened in Khailam village of Bareilly. Then stones were pelted, FIRs lodged," wrote Singh in a Facebook post that he later deleted after facing severe criticism.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...bjp-mp-vinay-katiyar/articleshow/62815998.cms

Secular

adjective: not connected with religious or spiritual matters.

synonyms: non-religious, lay, non-church, temporal, worldly, earthly, profane;

 

[TikkiTaka]

Or carve out another country out of current India for the Muslims in India if you can't stand them.

We shouldn't worry. With the rate that Muslim population is increasing in India this will happen eventually where India will be split up into multiple pieces. They are now close to 18% and are growing twice as fast as Hindus. Inshallah we will have a point in which we go back to being a subcontinent ruled by Muslims soon.

 

[Saeed]

If you had to make seperate threads every time a BJP clown opens their mouth, the whole section would be littered

BJP continue to demonise Indian Muslims, while Indian Muslims continue to be mute. Nobody will stand up for them if they cant stand up for themselves.

Indian Muslims remained quiet when Indian Military was oppressing Kashmiris and continue to do so. They thought it doesn’t affect them but now BJP is trying to abuse them too.

 

[Syed1]

India have elected their Zia ul-Haq in the shape of Modi. They will find out 2 decades from now. Already the signs are visible.

 

[Syed1]

Indian Muslims are up against a huge majority. If they raise their voice they risk their security and being targeted by BJP goons. Indian Muslims need a Mohammad Ali Jinnah who will be their voice.

 

[www787]

India have elected their Zia ul-Haq in the shape of Modi. They will find out 2 decades from now. Already the signs are visible.

This, it’ll take time to totally see it but India is heading toward intolerance and extremism.

 

[CricketCartoons]

A hindu and a muslim can never be friends. They can only coexist when one accepts the rule of the other. india needs another partition for everlasting peace.

 

[akki]

Clear rise of fascism in India. Joke democracy to say the least. We should give Muslims from India the opportunity to move to Pakistan.

Hahaha they never apply dude. Like hindus or sikhs or even muslims from pakistan apply for citizenship of india.And many more want to,but they know that if hindus or sikhs from pakistan having hard time for getting citizenship then muslims have little scope...........we indians are best mathematicians in the world, with almost half of maths discovered by indians. So we only talk about facts and figures...Not what some person say .

 

[akki]

They are up against a huge majority. If they raise their voice they risk their security and being targeted by BJP goons. Indian Muslims need a Mohammad Ali Jinnah who will be their voice.

I thing i can gurantee very much....there wont be a single inch of land going anywhere..That's for sure..we already lost part of bharat land to pakistan or bangladesh...or you can say some arabs or turaqs...
So relax...nothing is going to happen...muslims these days suffer everywhere in the world.image of muslims everywhere is like this unfotunately...And relax dnt think much about india..On ground terms ..muslims are much safer in india than even pakistan ..

 

[Madplayer]

A big riot is coming in the next decade. Tensions are brewing up. I dont know the eventual consequences of it but its bound to happen now.

 

[CricketCartoons]

A big riot is coming in the next decade. Tensions are brewing up. I dont know the eventual consequences of it but its bound to happen now.

India needs to burn before it can start anew.

 

[Madplayer]

Indian muslims generally want to maintain cordial relations with hindus and others especially in areas where they are a minority. We shouldnt expect them to go all out against the Hindu majority because they cant and any violence is ill advised anyway. They should mobilise their numbers rather than remaining scattered all over India. But that's difficult too because they have established centres scattered all over the country and it would be difficult for them all to shift to proximity with each other. If it can be done over a period of time, they should do it. Preferably towards north India bordering Kashmir. That would make a strong muslim front.

At this time their numbers are increasing. Not exponentially but if they somehow reach to 25% of Indian population by 2030 (unlikely) then it should shift the political balance in India.

 

[Madplayer]

India needs to burn before it can start anew.

So do the muslims of India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A hindu and a muslim can never be friends. They can only coexist when one accepts the rule of the other. india needs another partition for everlasting peace.

Partition is a weak option. I would argue that the original partition needs to be annulled. The either Hindus and Muslims should assume rule and the other must accept it. Should not be a problem for secular India.

 

[Traveller55]

A simpler solution would be state-sponsored atheism and disadvantaging ancient & out-dated concepts of religion from public life.
If the whole problem comes from notion of religion, the easiest and most permanent fix, is to get rid of the nonsensical concept of religion.
At the end of the day, atheism is on the rise, because atheism is simple materialism philosophy and we are a materialist species.

All religions have a shelf-life and are consigned to dustbins in history at some point or another. Islam, Christianity, Hinduism-they are fast approaching their 'best before' date.

 

[Madplayer]

A simpler solution would be state-sponsored atheism and disadvantaging ancient & out-dated concepts of religion from public life.
If the whole problem comes from notion of religion, the easiest and most permanent fix, is to get rid of the nonsensical concept of religion.
At the end of the day, atheism is on the rise, because atheism is simple materialism philosophy and we are a materialist species.

All religions have a shelf-life and are consigned to dustbins in history at some point or another. Islam, Christianity, Hinduism-they are fast approaching their 'best before' date.

If they are fast approaching their best before date, then anyone having problem with them should wait a little more.

Enforcing state sponsored atheism on people will only result in bloodshed. But i guess even that would be the mistake of dumb religious people who would resist the enforcement of a superior ideology on them. The atheists are just trying to help and idiots who dont know anything about science should accept it.

 

[Traveller55]

If they are fast approaching their best before date, then anyone having problem with them should wait a little more.

Enforcing state sponsored atheism on people will only result in bloodshed. But i guess even that would be the mistake of dumb religious people who would resist the enforcement of a superior ideology on them. The atheists are just trying to help and idiots who dont know anything about science should accept it.

Enforcing atheism does not mean communist style enforcement of state policy. It simply means that religion has zero part in state- no more funding, no more official recognition, etc.

 

[www787]

Enforcing atheism does not mean communist style enforcement of state policy. It simply means that religion has zero part in state- no more funding, no more official recognition, etc.

so eliminate all form of belief over one belief, AtheISM

 

[Traveller55]

so eliminate all form of belief over one belief, AtheISM

Atheism isn't a belief. Its lack of belief.
Atheism is simply saying ' I don't believe in something without evidence of said something'.

Just like how I don't believe in Superman, I don't believe in God either.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Enforcing atheism does not mean communist style enforcement of state policy. It simply means that religion has zero part in state- no more funding, no more official recognition, etc.

Pretty much this. Ban all funding to all religious institutions etc., tax them all equally and introduce a uniform civil code. That is the only solution .

 

[TikkiTaka]

Indian muslims generally want to maintain cordial relations with hindus and others especially in areas where they are a minority. We shouldnt expect them to go all out against the Hindu majority because they cant and any violence is ill advised anyway. They should mobilise their numbers rather than remaining scattered all over India. But that's difficult too because they have established centres scattered all over the country and it would be difficult for them all to shift to proximity with each other. If it can be done over a period of time, they should do it. Preferably towards north India bordering Kashmir. That would make a strong muslim front.

At this time their numbers are increasing. Not exponentially but if they somehow reach to 25% of Indian population by 2030 (unlikely) then it should shift the political balance in India.

The weird thing based on my conversations is that all the educated Indian muslims I have met in the west seem to support Modi but dislike the BJP as a whole. Apparently there's the concept of a muslim vote bank in India which involves giving Maulvis sops and gifts to ask their followers to vote for a party. And this means nothing actually comes down to the poor muslim on the street.

Either way Indian muslims will revolt against the system soon. Inshallah we will see that happen soon; all they need is another Jinnah. That Owaisi guy seems like a good bet. Pak should give him support. We were created as the representatives of Muslims in the subcontinent so it is our duty to support them.

 

[Poutine]

The weird thing based on my conversations is that all the educated Indian muslims I have met in the west seem to support Modi but dislike the BJP as a whole. Apparently there's the concept of a muslim vote bank in India which involves giving Maulvis sops and gifts to ask their followers to vote for a party. And this means nothing actually comes down to the poor muslim on the street.

Either way Indian muslims will revolt against the system soon. Inshallah we will see that happen soon; all they need is another Jinnah. That Owaisi guy seems like a good bet. Pak should give him support. We were created as the representatives of Muslims in the subcontinent so it is our duty to support them.

Most Pakistanis have no Idea who Owaisi is. What's with the Pakistani flag next to your username?

 

[Sunny786]

A hindu and a muslim can never be friends. They can only coexist when one accepts the rule of the other. india needs another partition for everlasting peace.

I disagree. If you are raised to respect other people's religious beliefs, then they can be.

 

[Sunny786]

Clear rise of fascism in India. Joke democracy to say the least. We should give Muslims from India the opportunity to move to Pakistan.

Don't think going to Pakistan will be any better. Life has not been easy for minorities in Pakistan. I am guessing they will be considered a minority as they are from India despite being muslims.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Most Pakistanis have no Idea who Owaisi is. What's with the Pakistani flag next to your username?

My roomates are from Chennai and Hyderabad where I work in Canada. Plus I'm interested in politics which I follow keenly in India. Apart from Dawn, Tribune, Newsweek, I make it a point to read the Indianexpress daily to understand what's going on. Always know your enemy

 

[TikkiTaka]

Don't think going to Pakistan will be any better. Life has not been easy for minorities in Pakistan. I am guessing they will be considered a minority as they are from India despite being muslims.

Well my family were originally Mohajirs who moved from India. The whole point of Pakistan was to build a homeland for Muslims in the Subcontinent. It would be spitting on the leaders of the Pakistan movement if we didn't allow our Muslim brethren into the country.

Plus Pakistanis treat their minorities better than India according to ISlamic prinicples.

 

[TSA321]

. It would be spitting on the leaders of the Pakistan movement if we didn't allow our Muslim brethren into the country.

If you’re going to troll, at least put some effort into it

 

[TikkiTaka]

If you’re going to troll, at least put some effort into it

Really? You don't believe that we should give Indian Muslims the chance to immigrate if they wanted to? My family left India as Mohajirs, and I have lost family members in Partition. The whole point of Pakistan was a homeland for Muslims in the indian subcontinent where they won't face persecution.

Fact is that India is heading towards being a Hindu fascist state, if not already. This is not the same India that was even nominally secular decades ago.

 

[www787]

Atheism isn't a belief. Its lack of belief.
Atheism is simply saying ' I don't believe in something without evidence of said something'.

Just like how I don't believe in Superman, I don't believe in God either.

It’s a group of people who wants to force their ideology on to other groups of people who belief in something else, just like other religious group.

 

[Syed1]

Really? You don't believe that we should give Indian Muslims the chance to immigrate if they wanted to? My family left India as Mohajirs, and I have lost family members in Partition. The whole point of Pakistan was a homeland for Muslims in the indian subcontinent where they won't face persecution.

Fact is that India is heading towards being a Hindu fascist state, if not already. This is not the same India that was even nominally secular decades ago.

Sir where in Pakistan are we going to accommodate 150 million people (in the hypothetical scenario that we allow Indian muslims to move to Pakistan and they all en masse get up and reach the border and the Indian government lets them leave)


Atleast talk some sense. The Muslims in India are Indians, heck many of them serve in the Indian army and commit crimes of absolute brutality against Kashmiris and they are involved in cross-border shelling that kills dozens of Pakistanis every year. Just because they are Muslims doesn't make them our friend/brother.

 

[Traveller55]

It’s a group of people who wants to force their ideology on to other groups of people who belief in something else, just like other religious group.

There is no forcing of atheism. Saying 'lets take away all the priviledges religion enjoys and turn the national apparatus separate from religion' isn't forcing atheism.

Forcing atheism would be atheists destroying religious buildings, burning religious books and outlawing self-identification with religion.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Sir where in Pakistan are we going to accommodate 150 million people (in the hypothetical scenario that we allow Indian muslims to move to Pakistan and they all en masse get up and reach the border and the Indian government lets them leave)


Atleast talk some sense. The Muslims in India are Indians, heck many of them serve in the Indian army and commit crimes of absolute brutality against Kashmiris and they are involved in cross-border shelling that kills dozens of Pakistanis every year. Just because they are Muslims doesn't make them our friend/brother.

It's not going to 150 million people. Whoever wants to leave should be allowed to. Making this offer alone will expose India's face of not being a secular country, showing that its just a facade and that the two-nation theory is just being proved right. Point is that we can't just sit back and watch these atrocities be committed; it could have very easily been my family if they didn't have the means to move during Partition.

With your second point of them serving in the Indian army, that's just a classic case of Stockholm syndrome. They have to constantly prove their patriotism, and sing VandeMatram and what not, and I guess they are ready oppress Kashmiris to gain brownie points.

It's more a question of principle that anything else. I'm not unreasonable to understand that many Muslims won't move or that we can't absorb them all. But allowing some to move will show that we believe in the principles of Pakistan as a safe-homeland for Muslims in the subcontinent.

 

[Syed1]

It's not going to 150 million people. Whoever wants to leave should be allowed to. Making this offer alone will expose India's face of not being a secular country, showing that its just a facade and that the two-nation theory is just being proved right. Point is that we can't just sit back and watch these atrocities be committed; it could have very easily been my family if they didn't have the means to move during Partition.

With your second point of them serving in the Indian army, that's just a classic case of Stockholm syndrome. They have to constantly prove their patriotism, and sing VandeMatram and what not, and I guess they are ready oppress Kashmiris to gain brownie points.

It's more a question of principle that anything else. I'm not unreasonable to understand that many Muslims won't move or that we can't absorb them all. But allowing some to move will show that we believe in the principles of Pakistan as a safe-homeland for Muslims in the subcontinent.

When CPEC comes on board and when Pakistan begins producing more than what we need, then we can think about it. Right now we should focus on providing for our poor and hungry. What happens in India shouldn't be our concern.

 

[www787]

There is no forcing of atheism. Saying 'lets take away all the priviledges religion enjoys and turn the national apparatus separate from religion' isn't forcing atheism.

Forcing atheism would be atheists destroying religious buildings, burning religious books and outlawing self-identification with religion.

You are, you do not want to recognize a group of people who have different beliefs than you.

 

[TikkiTaka]

When CPEC comes on board and when Pakistan begins producing more than what we need, then we can think about it. Right now we should focus on providing for our poor and hungry. What happens in India shouldn't be our concern.

Well India is the one actively trying to not let CPEC come on board. We could easily see the failure of these projects thanks to Indian terrorism. These are not separate issues; we need to take a strong moral stand against India. Sadly our political leaders are spineless, unlike our Army.

 

[Traveller55]

You are, you do not want to recognize a group of people who have different beliefs than you.

Nobody is denying recognition of a group of people by their belief. I am simply saying, that religious beliefs have no place in running of the government and government laws and regulations should treat everyone as equal, regardless of what they choose to believe in terms of God or not.

 

[amax]

Indian Muslims are Indians , most of them share nothing with land of Pakistan.

 

[Madplayer]

Nobody is denying recognition of a group of people by their belief. I am simply saying, that religious beliefs have no place in running of the government and government laws and regulations should treat everyone as equal, regardless of what they choose to believe in terms of God or not.

India already has no official religion. There is no religion of the state of India.

Now it comes down to the same thing. You want India to shove it down people's throats.

 

[CricketCartoons]

On the other hand, Indian muslims are demanding 3 years sentence for anyone who calls them Pakistani. Personally I would feel good inside if someone says you look Pakistani. So don't know why they have a problem.

 

[CricketCartoons]

India already has no official religion. There is no religion of the state of India.

Now it comes down to the same thing. You want India to shove it down people's throats.

You are not even an Indian, so let us worry about our issues. Our own mard-e-momin Mod(ood)i ji has brought hindu renaissance, so I can feel the burn that your dream of islamic hindustan has turned into a nightmare.

 

[Madplayer]

You are not even an Indian, so let us worry about our issues. Our own mard-e-momin Mod(ood)i ji has brought hindu renaissance, so I can feel the burn that your dream of islamic hindustan has turned into a nightmare.

) ) )

Hahahaha
I swear this is the funniest thing i have read in long long time. Infact i had to trim some of the "ha" for the fear of sounding like a maniac.

But do you want India to be an Atheist nation?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Vinay Katiyar read the constitution.

 

[CricketCartoons]

But do you want India to be an Atheist nation?

I have been on record demanding a hindu nation, even if it means letting go of some land for the non/trojan
hindus. When every major religion has a country for its own, it is only hinduism, the most persecuted religion alive, which has been denied the basic right of having a hindu nation, where hindus can practice their religion without any fear from the four M's (muslim, maoist, missionaries and macaulayzaadas).

 

[Traveller55]

India already has no official religion. There is no religion of the state of India.

Now it comes down to the same thing. You want India to shove it down people's throats.

Yes,but Indian government includes religion in its functioning- Muslims have their own Sharia civil code.
It does some form of Hajj subsidy.

My position on religion and state is very simple - complete separation of it, except ofcourse 1 concession to the state : Religious activity, like EVERY activity, should not be tax-free unless its strictly a charity event.
Ie, exact same secular law for all, zero government help/sponsorship to religious buildings, organizations, etc., zero tax breaks to all of them, etc.

Its not ramming 'no religion' down people's throats - if you want your religion, YOU pay for it, organize it, etc. out of your own pocket. Not the state's pocket. No special rules because of a certain type of God-belief, etc.

Its actually pretty close to what Canada has for eg, all they'd have to do to achieve my dream, is to start taxing religious properties and religious collections that are not strictly disembursed as charity (ie, what would count as 'income' for the mosque/church/temple etc'.

 

[Traveller55]

PS: in turn, i'd give religion 1 concession : pick 4-5 days out of the year for religious holidays. Doesn't matter what religion - hold a vote for said country.If its Muharram, so be it, if its Christmas or Easter or Durga Puja or Eid, whatever.

So that way the only way government has ANYTHING to do with religion are taxing religion and declaring public holidays for it. That's it.

 

[Madplayer]

Yes,but Indian government includes religion in its functioning- Muslims have their own Sharia civil code.
It does some form of Hajj subsidy.

My position on religion and state is very simple - complete separation of it, except ofcourse 1 concession to the state : Religious activity, like EVERY activity, should not be tax-free unless its strictly a charity event.
Ie, exact same secular law for all, zero government help/sponsorship to religious buildings, organizations, etc., zero tax breaks to all of them, etc.

Its not ramming 'no religion' down people's throats - if you want your religion, YOU pay for it, organize it, etc. out of your own pocket. Not the state's pocket. No special rules because of a certain type of God-belief, etc.

Its actually pretty close to what Canada has for eg, all they'd have to do to achieve my dream, is to start taxing religious properties and religious collections that are not strictly disembursed as charity (ie, what would count as 'income' for the mosque/church/temple etc'.

This black and white approach doesnt work in real life. India and Canada arent the same. What works in Canada might not work in India and vice versa. PM modi said this yesterday in Parliament. You have completely disregarded India's problems related to maintaining its sovereignty and integrity. To maintain it, they have to give concessions and some degree of autonomy to religious bodies to make them feel a sense of dignity and power. If you dont do it, then you will become another china because make no mistake, you will get a reaction from people, its that simple. Thats whats happening with Tribals of India. Ofcourse the state would have over ruling powers always and through judicial activism reforms could be brought like we saw in Triple talaq case. Even Haj subsidy which you mentioned was scrapped recently. Now mostly hindu pilgrimages and events like Kumbh are helped by the state.

Many of the temples and pilgrimage sites come under the jurisdiction of state itself and they earn revenue from religious and pilgrimage tourism, they subsidise religious events and promote them to circulate more money in the economy and to provide employment from a pakore wala to a hotelier. State would have to let go of all these things if it decides it has nothing to do with religion and that would be problematic.

Indian society is a web of complex realities. Any black and white approach would be detrimental to its cause.

 

[Traveller55]

This black and white approach doesnt work in real life. India and Canada arent the same. What works in Canada might not work in India and vice versa. PM modi said this yesterday in Parliament. You have completely disregarded India's problems related to maintaining its sovereignty and integrity. To maintain it, they have to give concessions and some degree of autonomy to religious bodies to make them feel a sense of dignity and power. If you dont do it, then you will become another china because make no mistake, you will get a reaction from people, its that simple. Thats whats happening with Tribals of India. Ofcourse the state would have over ruling powers always and through judicial activism reforms could be brought like we saw in Triple talaq case. Even Haj subsidy which you mentioned was scrapped recently. Now mostly hindu pilgrimages and events like Kumbh are helped by the state.

Many of the temples and pilgrimage sites come under the jurisdiction of state itself and they earn revenue from religious and pilgrimage tourism, they subsidise religious events and promote them to circulate more money in the economy and to provide employment from a pakore wala to a hotelier. State would have to let go of all these things if it decides it has nothing to do with religion and that would be problematic.

Indian society is a web of complex realities. Any black and white approach would be detrimental to its cause.

1. I don't think they have to give concessions to any religion to maintain sovereignty. Yes, religion-lead ruckus is a problem in the third world, but it can be tackled by strengthening law and order. Ask for 'consessions' all you want in a legal way- the moment its illegal, toss them in jail. Then watch how all this ruckus dies down.

2. Again, Canada is considering taxing religious institutions. We are not going to become China, because China tells its religious bodies who to put in as Imam/Pastor etc.
I am not going that far - run your own mosques/temples as you see fit (but if there is hate speech, like rants against kaffirs or caste stuff- then serve penalty for incitement- strictly enforced).

3. State can still collect taxes from said events.

4. Sure, but I am not the most well educated on Indian socities. Would like to go one day.

 

[Madplayer]

1. I don't think they have to give concessions to any religion to maintain sovereignty. Yes, religion-lead ruckus is a problem in the third world, but it can be tackled by strengthening law and order. Ask for 'consessions' all you want in a legal way- the moment its illegal, toss them in jail. Then watch how all this ruckus dies down.

2. Again, Canada is considering taxing religious institutions. We are not going to become China, because China tells its religious bodies who to put in as Imam/Pastor etc.
I am not going that far - run your own mosques/temples as you see fit (but if there is hate speech, like rants against kaffirs or caste stuff- then serve penalty for incitement- strictly enforced).

3. State can still collect taxes from said events.

4. Sure, but I am not the most well educated on Indian socities. Would like to go one day.

1) you are under-estimating the reaction which could come from people who want some degree of autonomy. They need to be made believe that they have some sort of power over their affairs. Tribals of India who are fighting secessionist or other battles for autonomy are prime examples. Their sacred lands which they lived in since thousands of years were taken from them without a proper process warranted by sociology. Now they believe that their lands have been transferred from one colonial power (british) to another. Same reactions could be expected from religious people and it can surely hurt the integrity of the state.

"Strengthening law and order" is euphemism for shoving it down people's throats.

2) like i said Canada and subcontinent are completely different socio-political entities. Indian state is immersed in religious realities while Canada is not. Its a land of immigrants anyway with hardly any deep rooted culture and ancient traditions.

3) state can collect taxes but it would have to face losses of huge proportions if it lets go of the properties and its ability to earn revenue from them. You might know how many pilgrims visit the temples of south India for instance. State does collect taxes from indirect and induced expenditure anyway.

4) Good luck.

 

[Hitman]

Someone needs to beat the living daylights out of this illiterate idiot. The Taj Mahal is the pride of India, and Indian muslims are just as Indian as him or other Indians are.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nobody is denying recognition of a group of people by their belief. I am simply saying, that religious beliefs have no place in running of the government and government laws and regulations should treat everyone as equal, regardless of what they choose to believe in terms of God or not.

So how do you feel about the BJP and their role in ridding religion from governance in India? Are you supportive or a critic?

 

[Arham_PakFan]

BJP is an absolute dung heap.India is a secular country and thus every Indian has a right to live in his homeland,no matter their caste or creed.These Hindu extremists are getting louder by the day.

 

[Traveller55]

1) you are under-estimating the reaction which could come from people who want some degree of autonomy. They need to be made believe that they have some sort of power over their affairs. Tribals of India who are fighting secessionist or other battles for autonomy are prime examples. Their sacred lands which they lived in since thousands of years were taken from them without a proper process warranted by sociology. Now they believe that their lands have been transferred from one colonial power (british) to another. Same reactions could be expected from religious people and it can surely hurt the integrity of the state.

I don't see why. Being ****** at the government for taking away religious subsidies does not equate to wanting independence.
Hindus in India for eg, already pay temple tax to the government. So do the Sikhs I believe, so that's 2 out of 4 major groups covered.

"Strengthening law and order" is euphemism for shoving it down people's throats.

Nope. Otherwise Canada, UK, etc. are shoving it down people's throats ??
Strengthen law and order means the moment the protest turns illegal, people get tossed in jail.
Ie, sure, march around with banners, slogans etc - vandalize car/shop = go to jail. Beat people up = go to jail. Etc.

2) like i said Canada and subcontinent are completely different socio-political entities. Indian state is immersed in religious realities while Canada is not. Its a land of immigrants anyway with hardly any deep rooted culture and ancient traditions.

Deep rooted culture or ancient traditions are irrelevant - a religious person doesn't become more/less religious because of the length of history of their land, otherwise Americans would all be wishy-washy Christians compared to Europeans, but its mostly exactly the opposite.

3) state can collect taxes but it would have to face losses of huge proportions if it lets go of the properties and its ability to earn revenue from them. You might know how many pilgrims visit the temples of south India for instance. State does collect taxes from indirect and induced expenditure anyway.

Why let go of the properties ? rent them out.

4) Good luck.

thanks!

 

[Traveller55]

So how do you feel about the BJP and their role in ridding religion from governance in India? Are you supportive or a critic?

I don't think BJP is ridding religion from the government, if anything they are introducing more religious shenanigans in the government by sponsoring Hinduism.

 

[Hitman]

What baffles me is how can an MP get away after spewing such nonsensical hate statements in public.

 

[Poutine]

What baffles me is how can an MP get away after spewing such nonsensical hate statements in public.

Could it be because the ruling party and PM have no issues with such comments?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't think BJP is ridding religion from the government, if anything they are introducing more religious shenanigans in the government by sponsoring Hinduism.

So would you agree that the BJP led by Modi is disastrous for India?

 

[Traveller55]

So would you agree that the BJP led by Modi is disastrous for India?

long way between not being ideal and being disastrous. So far the indications are that they are doing a better job than the Congress has.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

long way between not being ideal and being disastrous. So far the indications are that they are doing a better job than the Congress has.

I see. So you think it's possible for a government with roots deep in religious chauvinism is capable of good government. Very interesting.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What baffles me is how can an MP get away after spewing such nonsensical hate statements in public.

Just like the PM MMS can get away by saying Muslims have the first right to Indias resources.

Its a two way street.

 

[Traveller55]

I see. So you think it's possible for a government with roots deep in religious chauvinism is capable of good government. Very interesting.

Yep. Because good government is a matter of doing, not a matter of reputation. I don't care if the PM of my country is Hitler's sole-begotten son or Mandela's rescuer. A good government or a bad government is about performance of the government.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yep. Because good government is a matter of doing, not a matter of reputation. I don't care if the PM of my country is Hitler's sole-begotten son or Mandela's rescuer. A good government or a bad government is about performance of the government.

Thank you for acknowledging your appreciation of India's Hindutva govt my Bangladeshi/Kashmiri friend.

 

[Traveller55]

Thank you for acknowledging your appreciation of India's Hindutva govt my Bangladeshi/Kashmiri friend.

Um...ok.
Personally, I am not concerned about Hinduvta. From my experience, their right wing (Hinduvta/BJP/RSS) is barely right of the centrists in Bangladesh and way more left-wing than the right-wing in Bangladesh.
Given that religious politics is even more fervent in Pakistan than Bangladesh, Hinduvta compared to Pakistan political parties are probably left of their left-wing.

 

[Hitman]

Just like the PM MMS can get away by saying Muslims have the first right to Indias resources.

Its a two way street.

He said that? Wow, didn't know it.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Thank you for acknowledging your appreciation of India's Hindutva govt my Bangladeshi/Kashmiri friend.

Remarkable. Traveller55 claims he is an Atheist yet appreciates the Hindutva BJP government, on the other hand his position on religion and state is very simple - complete separation of it.

I completely understand what you mean now.

 

[Traveller55]

Remarkable. Traveller55 claims he is an Atheist yet appreciates the Hindutva BJP government, on the other hand his position on religion and state is very simple - complete separation of it.

I completely understand what you mean now.

You people need to either grow a more nuanced understanding or learn better English.
Saying 'not concerned' does not equate to appreciation. Saying a government is about doing, not reputation, is not equal to appreciating it.

Learn better English, please.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Remarkable. Traveller55 claims he is an Atheist yet appreciates the Hindutva BJP government, on the other hand his position on religion and state is very simple - complete separation of it.

I completely understand what you mean now.

This chap is hilarious. Spends most of his days criticising anything to do with religion, wants separation of state and religion at all costs but thinks a right religious extremist government is a great for a country.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Saying 'not concerned' does not equate to appreciation.

You mean like "insinuating" something does not equate to someone "stating" it? Gotch ya!

I am surprised (well then again I am not really), for all your views against religion you have a soft spot for Hindutva. To the extent you believe there should be a complete separation religion and state - except in BJP's case.

The more you post the more you expose your position

Oh and save the English lines, I know speaking English is a big achievement in India, but no here pal.