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Indian political analyst sparks debate, claiming Pakistani Punjabis have no iconic heroes or warriors in history

Bhaijaan

Bhaijaan

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Further went on to allege that Pakistani Punjabi Muslims only steal heroes of Afghan, Persian, Uzbek origins etc and claim them to be their own although the truth is no Pakistani Punjabi Muslim ever did anything of note historically.


https://twitter.com/x/status/2004601942727934123


Point to be noted here that, Sanatanis in Bharat on the other hand have iconic local heroes and warriors like Ashoka The Great, Chandeagupta Maurya, Mangal Pandey, Prithviraj Chauhan, Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, Chhaaava, Guru Gobind, Hari Singh Nalua, Banda Bahadur, Narendra Modi etc etc.

How true is this claim?
 
Depends how you look at this and how you look at the Pakistani identity.

Identities are formed through existence of a community over centuries.

Our identity was always Indian, but for some reason people take offense in this. Infact, alot of brit pakistanis on this forum get offended by this aswell.

So our heroes were those people that were born here and lived in these part of the lands. People like Ganga Ram, Har Gobind Khurana, Dilip Kumar, Amrish Puri etc, should be recognized as Pakistani heroes as they born in our part of the land.

But the issue always was that we were bothered and non accepting of our Indian identity. So, to counter this, we have been focused on making a Pakistani identity. The Pakistani identity is basically anyone who is a Muslim and only follows shia or sunni sect, is considered a part of the Pakistani identity.

To enhance this identity, you will notice all the soo called heroes of Pakistan are only the muslim conquerors before 16th century. So basically what we have done is deleted all the hindus and sikhs, and choose all the muslims warriors who landed in British India, not mattering where they landed in Mumbai, were from Afghanistan, Tajikistan or Arab, and we basically placed them in our history books and claimed him as our.

For example, some random guy from the 7th century called Muhammad Bin Qasim is the unofficial Abu of Pakistan, only because he as a muslim landed in Sindh. Even Bin Qasim wouldnt had figured that 1400 years later he would be recognized as the father of some random nation, only because that nation wanted to associate itself with muslims only. Our history lessons start from Muhammad Bin Qasim.

And than, when the Pakistan movement is discussed, again, only the muslims are seperated. Meanwhile someone like Jogendra Nath is a forgotten side note.

All this is not a mistake, it has been done on purpose, just to show that Pakistan is a Muslim state only and is made for Muslims. To further enhance this image, all our missiles have been named after past warriors and conquerors, like we have missile called Babur, have a tank called Khalid, only cause Khalid Bin waleed existed in Makkah back in the 6th century.

So, what the person in op said is true, and basically we ended up cornering ourselves into that position. Its not just Punjab Pakistan, but overall whole Pakistan has done this.

However, this is where i appreciate Maryam Nawaz, as Maryam is trying to enhance Punjabi Culture, and in her effort she has tried to enhance the language, aswell as recognize the non muslim heroes of Punjab aswell. However, it will take a massive effort, along with the eradication of groups like TLP and other religious terrorist groups that go crazy when a non muslim is recognized in Punjab.

Its quite interesting to see this change from Maryam Nawaz, considering how her party was formed through using religion and promoting groups like Wahabis and Deobandis who in past had a religious hold on the public. This is the beauty of democracy, as in democracy, even political parties start to transition and adapt to modern world.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Point to be noted here that, Sanatanis in Bharat on the other hand have iconic local heroes and warriors like Ashoka The Great, Chandeagupta Maurya, Mangal Pandey, Prithviraj Chauhan, Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, Chhaaava, Guru Gobind, Hari Singh Nalua, Banda Bahadur, Narendra Modi etc etc.

How true is this claim?
Click to expand...
I like how you just sneaked that in. Never really know which trolling mood you are in but today you seem to have chosen violence.
 
Major said:
Depends how you look at this and how you look at the Pakistani identity.

Identities are formed through existence of a community over centuries.

Our identity was always Indian, but for some reason people take offense in this. Infact, alot of brit pakistanis on this forum get offended by this aswell.

So our heroes were those people that were born here and lived in these part of the lands. People like Ganga Ram, Har Gobind Khurana, Dilip Kumar, Amrish Puri etc, should be recognized as Pakistani heroes as they born in our part of the land.

But the issue always was that we were bothered and non accepting of our Indian identity. So, to counter this, we have been focused on making a Pakistani identity. The Pakistani identity is basically anyone who is a Muslim and only follows shia or sunni sect, is considered a part of the Pakistani identity.

To enhance this identity, you will notice all the soo called heroes of Pakistan are only the muslim conquerors before 16th century. So basically what we have done is deleted all the hindus and sikhs, and choose all the muslims warriors who landed in British India, not mattering where they landed in Mumbai, were from Afghanistan, Tajikistan or Arab, and we basically placed them in our history books and claimed him as our.

For example, some random guy from the 7th century called Muhammad Bin Qasim is the unofficial Abu of Pakistan, only because he as a muslim landed in Sindh. Even Bin Qasim wouldnt had figured that 1400 years later he would be recognized as the father of some random nation, only because that nation wanted to associate itself with muslims only. Our history lessons start from Muhammad Bin Qasim.

And than, when the Pakistan movement is discussed, again, only the muslims are seperated. Meanwhile someone like Jogendra Nath is a forgotten side note.

All this is not a mistake, it has been done on purpose, just to show that Pakistan is a Muslim state only and is made for Muslims. To further enhance this image, all our missiles have been named after past warriors and conquerors, like we have missile called Babur, have a tank called Khalid, only cause Khalid Bin waleed existed in Makkah back in the 6th century.

So, what the person in op said is true, and basically we ended up cornering ourselves into that position. Its not just Punjab Pakistan, but overall whole Pakistan has done this.

However, this is where i appreciate Maryam Nawaz, as Maryam is trying to enhance Punjabi Culture, and in her effort she has tried to enhance the language, aswell as recognize the non muslim heroes of Punjab aswell. However, it will take a massive effort, along with the eradication of groups like TLP and other religious terrorist groups that go crazy when a non muslim is recognized in Punjab.

Its quite interesting to see this change from Maryam Nawaz, considering how her party was formed through using religion and promoting groups like Wahabis and Deobandis who in past had a religious hold on the public. This is the beauty of democracy, as in democracy, even political parties start to transition and adapt to modern world.
Click to expand...
Ngl, you had me in the first half..
 
G0rmintAunty said:
Ngl, you had me in the first half..
Click to expand...
Well if you dont like Maryam Nawaz, than alot of you dont have an idea how Maryam has made Punjab better.

No one was expecting her to do this, as she never came into politics with a tabdeeli slogan. Yet, she bought tabdeel in punjab that no other party has been able to do so.

The biggest tabdeeli she bought is she has made Punjab more safer for women and children than it was 4 years ago. No person can now dare to harass a women or a child, as a CDC force exists that makes sure a bullet is lodged in the pvt parts of the harrassar.

She is doing alot of work in Punjab and is even enhancing the Punjabi identity. Historically, speaking Punjabi has been considered batameezi in Pakistani society, but she is making the Punjabi culture be recognized and an accepted part of society
 
The us has become a hot topic of discussion among Afghan community who feel the Pakistanis conveniently use their ancestors who were nomadic warriors to further their political agenda. Afghans have in the past also mocked how the Pakistanis even named their missiles after historically Non Pakistani Muslims from Afghan, Persian, Uzbek, Turk regions etc

https://twitter.com/x/status/2004644481292009716

In recent years even some Pakistani analysts debated why the country continues to use foreign cultures iconic people name for its weapons and not of local Pakistani icons like Shahid Afridi or Parvez Musharraf
 
Major said:
Depends how you look at this and how you look at the Pakistani identity.

Identities are formed through existence of a community over centuries.

Our identity was always Indian, but for some reason people take offense in this. Infact, alot of brit pakistanis on this forum get offended by this aswell.

So our heroes were those people that were born here and lived in these part of the lands. People like Ganga Ram, Har Gobind Khurana, Dilip Kumar, Amrish Puri etc, should be recognized as Pakistani heroes as they born in our part of the land.

But the issue always was that we were bothered and non accepting of our Indian identity. So, to counter this, we have been focused on making a Pakistani identity. The Pakistani identity is basically anyone who is a Muslim and only follows shia or sunni sect, is considered a part of the Pakistani identity.

To enhance this identity, you will notice all the soo called heroes of Pakistan are only the muslim conquerors before 16th century. So basically what we have done is deleted all the hindus and sikhs, and choose all the muslims warriors who landed in British India, not mattering where they landed in Mumbai, were from Afghanistan, Tajikistan or Arab, and we basically placed them in our history books and claimed him as our.

For example, some random guy from the 7th century called Muhammad Bin Qasim is the unofficial Abu of Pakistan, only because he as a muslim landed in Sindh. Even Bin Qasim wouldnt had figured that 1400 years later he would be recognized as the father of some random nation, only because that nation wanted to associate itself with muslims only. Our history lessons start from Muhammad Bin Qasim.

And than, when the Pakistan movement is discussed, again, only the muslims are seperated. Meanwhile someone like Jogendra Nath is a forgotten side note.

All this is not a mistake, it has been done on purpose, just to show that Pakistan is a Muslim state only and is made for Muslims. To further enhance this image, all our missiles have been named after past warriors and conquerors, like we have missile called Babur, have a tank called Khalid, only cause Khalid Bin waleed existed in Makkah back in the 6th century.

So, what the person in op said is true, and basically we ended up cornering ourselves into that position. Its not just Punjab Pakistan, but overall whole Pakistan has done this.

However, this is where i appreciate Maryam Nawaz, as Maryam is trying to enhance Punjabi Culture, and in her effort she has tried to enhance the language, aswell as recognize the non muslim heroes of Punjab aswell. However, it will take a massive effort, along with the eradication of groups like TLP and other religious terrorist groups that go crazy when a non muslim is recognized in Punjab.

Its quite interesting to see this change from Maryam Nawaz, considering how her party was formed through using religion and promoting groups like Wahabis and Deobandis who in past had a religious hold on the public. This is the beauty of democracy, as in democracy, even political parties start to transition and adapt to modern world.
Click to expand...
This was very well put. Putting the religion aside, past renowned figures from a region have some good impact if their deeds / heroics are passed down. With Pakistan, I presume during 1947 there is a good chunk of population migration happened and this might be lost and most communities there.

For example, freedom fighters or ancient rulers of a particular region will hold significant impact in that region, be it Shivaji Maharaj in Maharshtra, Krishna Devaraya in Andhra region, Cholas in Tamilanadu etc.

I have to point out that these figures were not necessarily seen as some religious figures but known for their local traditions and heroics.

As religious identity takes over, this identity in Pakistan region might have been erased and it gets difficult to track as generations pass by. And Islamic hardliners like TLP doesn't make life easy for any political party.

I would say, guys like TLP (my understanding is that they are extremists) have done the biggest damage to Pakistan both economically and culturally as they force the hand of other political parties in a country that is formed based on religion.
 
Theanonymousone said:
This was very well put. Putting the religion aside, past renowned figures from a region have some good impact if their deeds / heroics are passed down. With Pakistan, I presume during 1947 there is a good chunk of population migration happened and this might be lost and most communities there.

For example, freedom fighters or ancient rulers of a particular region will hold significant impact in that region, be it Shivaji Maharaj in Maharshtra, Krishna Devaraya in Andhra region, Cholas in Tamilanadu etc.

I have to point out that these figures were not necessarily seen as some religious figures but known for their local traditions and heroics.

As religious identity takes over, this identity in Pakistan region might have been erased and it gets difficult to track as generations pass by. And Islamic hardliners like TLP doesn't make life easy for any political party.

I would say, guys like TLP (my understanding is that they are extremists) have done the biggest damage to Pakistan both economically and culturally as they force the hand of other political parties in a country that is formed based on religion.
Click to expand...
When someone like Har Gobind Khurana cannot be recognized in Pakistan, who just know the priority of that nation than.

Even alot of posters wont have an idea why this guy needs to be recognized or what importance his identity holds.

Tlp will do more damage, and the reason for that is the army gave this group importance to target pmln and make the govts of pmln weaker. All done to make sure pti would come into power.
 
Major said:
Depends how you look at this and how you look at the Pakistani identity.

Identities are formed through existence of a community over centuries.

Our identity was always Indian, but for some reason people take offense in this. Infact, alot of brit pakistanis on this forum get offended by this aswell.

So our heroes were those people that were born here and lived in these part of the lands. People like Ganga Ram, Har Gobind Khurana, Dilip Kumar, Amrish Puri etc, should be recognized as Pakistani heroes as they born in our part of the land.

But the issue always was that we were bothered and non accepting of our Indian identity. So, to counter this, we have been focused on making a Pakistani identity. The Pakistani identity is basically anyone who is a Muslim and only follows shia or sunni sect, is considered a part of the Pakistani identity.

To enhance this identity, you will notice all the soo called heroes of Pakistan are only the muslim conquerors before 16th century. So basically what we have done is deleted all the hindus and sikhs, and choose all the muslims warriors who landed in British India, not mattering where they landed in Mumbai, were from Afghanistan, Tajikistan or Arab, and we basically placed them in our history books and claimed him as our.

For example, some random guy from the 7th century called Muhammad Bin Qasim is the unofficial Abu of Pakistan, only because he as a muslim landed in Sindh. Even Bin Qasim wouldnt had figured that 1400 years later he would be recognized as the father of some random nation, only because that nation wanted to associate itself with muslims only. Our history lessons start from Muhammad Bin Qasim.

And than, when the Pakistan movement is discussed, again, only the muslims are seperated. Meanwhile someone like Jogendra Nath is a forgotten side note.

All this is not a mistake, it has been done on purpose, just to show that Pakistan is a Muslim state only and is made for Muslims. To further enhance this image, all our missiles have been named after past warriors and conquerors, like we have missile called Babur, have a tank called Khalid, only cause Khalid Bin waleed existed in Makkah back in the 6th century.

So, what the person in op said is true, and basically we ended up cornering ourselves into that position. Its not just Punjab Pakistan, but overall whole Pakistan has done this.

However, this is where i appreciate Maryam Nawaz, as Maryam is trying to enhance Punjabi Culture, and in her effort she has tried to enhance the language, aswell as recognize the non muslim heroes of Punjab aswell. However, it will take a massive effort, along with the eradication of groups like TLP and other religious terrorist groups that go crazy when a non muslim is recognized in Punjab.

Its quite interesting to see this change from Maryam Nawaz, considering how her party was formed through using religion and promoting groups like Wahabis and Deobandis who in past had a religious hold on the public. This is the beauty of democracy, as in democracy, even political parties start to transition and adapt to modern world.
Click to expand...
This is th type of post that appears on forum but is quite detached from ground level, which is surprising from you.

The very essence of Punjabi language culture, art, poetry has the works of our Punjabi Sufi saints flowing throw it.

And Nankana Sahib and Kartarpur Sahib are well respected and honoured.

TLP or any TTP can't change this
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This is th type of post that appears on forum but is quite detached from ground level, which is surprising from you.

The very essence of Punjabi language culture, art, poetry has the works of our Punjabi Sufi saints flowing throw it.

And Nankana Sahib and Kartarpur Sahib are well respected and honoured.

TLP or any TTP can't change this
Click to expand...
So we picked and choose sufi saints due to Islam.

Nankana sahib and kartarpur were political moves to appease the sikhs after bjp came into power. Especially kartarpur.

Pakistani heroes have been carved out of muslims only.

TLP can change that if it ever wins seats from Punjab or gains qouta seats
 
Major said:
Depends how you look at this and how you look at the Pakistani identity.

Identities are formed through existence of a community over centuries.

Our identity was always Indian, but for some reason people take offense in this. Infact, alot of brit pakistanis on this forum get offended by this aswell.

So our heroes were those people that were born here and lived in these part of the lands. People like Ganga Ram, Har Gobind Khurana, Dilip Kumar, Amrish Puri etc, should be recognized as Pakistani heroes as they born in our part of the land.

But the issue always was that we were bothered and non accepting of our Indian identity. So, to counter this, we have been focused on making a Pakistani identity. The Pakistani identity is basically anyone who is a Muslim and only follows shia or sunni sect, is considered a part of the Pakistani identity.

To enhance this identity, you will notice all the soo called heroes of Pakistan are only the muslim conquerors before 16th century. So basically what we have done is deleted all the hindus and sikhs, and choose all the muslims warriors who landed in British India, not mattering where they landed in Mumbai, were from Afghanistan, Tajikistan or Arab, and we basically placed them in our history books and claimed him as our.

For example, some random guy from the 7th century called Muhammad Bin Qasim is the unofficial Abu of Pakistan, only because he as a muslim landed in Sindh. Even Bin Qasim wouldnt had figured that 1400 years later he would be recognized as the father of some random nation, only because that nation wanted to associate itself with muslims only. Our history lessons start from Muhammad Bin Qasim.

And than, when the Pakistan movement is discussed, again, only the muslims are seperated. Meanwhile someone like Jogendra Nath is a forgotten side note.

All this is not a mistake, it has been done on purpose, just to show that Pakistan is a Muslim state only and is made for Muslims. To further enhance this image, all our missiles have been named after past warriors and conquerors, like we have missile called Babur, have a tank called Khalid, only cause Khalid Bin waleed existed in Makkah back in the 6th century.

So, what the person in op said is true, and basically we ended up cornering ourselves into that position. Its not just Punjab Pakistan, but overall whole Pakistan has done this.

However, this is where i appreciate Maryam Nawaz, as Maryam is trying to enhance Punjabi Culture, and in her effort she has tried to enhance the language, aswell as recognize the non muslim heroes of Punjab aswell. However, it will take a massive effort, along with the eradication of groups like TLP and other religious terrorist groups that go crazy when a non muslim is recognized in Punjab.

Its quite interesting to see this change from Maryam Nawaz, considering how her party was formed through using religion and promoting groups like Wahabis and Deobandis who in past had a religious hold on the public. This is the beauty of democracy, as in democracy, even political parties start to transition and adapt to modern world.
Click to expand...

About time Indian posters start giving respect to @Major bhai for his brutal honesty. Yes it’s not always cool when you’re at the receiving end. But you have got to respect brutal honesty. It’s a great quality and mark of a brace and secure man.

@Rajdeep @cricketjoshila @Varun @Romali_rotti @RexRex @MP2011 @deltexas
 
Pakistan still has no concept of self; 70 years on .. it is still constantly seeking validation from the wider muslim world. This identity crisis wil never go away.
 
RexRex said:
Pakistan still has no concept of self; 70 years on .. it is still constantly seeking validation from the wider muslim world. This identity crisis wil never go away.
Click to expand...

Pakistan has an identity.

Their identity is Anti-Hinduism, Anti-the-idea-of-coexistence

Every day they wake up, they have to say or do something from the above to justify the rationale behind their existence or hope India does something stupid so that they can thank Jinnah and prove him right.


India & Pakistan are pure antagonists.
Every time India seems to be doing great as a country, it mocks Pakistan’s very existence.
 
I have great respect for Shaheed Udham Singh Ji for avenging the Jallianwala Bagh massacre by killing the British official responsible. I understand this was not related to Pakistan, but it was a stand against British oppression from the punjabi side.

but modern day hero is definitely Asim Munir and Maryam Nawaz.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Pakistan has an identity.

Their identity is Anti-Hinduism, Anti-the-idea-of-coexistence

Every day they wake up, they have to say or do something from the above to justify the rationale behind their existence or hope India does something stupid so that they can thank Jinnah and prove him right.


India & Pakistan are pure antagonists.
Every time India seems to be doing great as a country, it mocks Pakistan’s very existence.
Click to expand...

Hope that India does something stupid?

Indian minorities are now living that prophecy.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Pakistan has an identity.

Their identity is Anti-Hinduism, Anti-the-idea-of-coexistence

Every day they wake up, they have to say or do something from the above to justify the rationale behind their existence or hope India does something stupid so that they can thank Jinnah and prove him right.


India & Pakistan are pure antagonists.
Every time India seems to be doing great as a country, it mocks Pakistan’s very existence.
Click to expand...

Bro you tagged me so I assume you want my input. All I asked for was some context so I could give you an informed response.

Where are these allegations coming from that Punjabis adopted Afghans as their heroes because they didn't have their own? Are they coming from Afghans? Indians? Could even be Pakistanis as there are notable dissenters in that country as well.

But once I have some context I can give you my view.

I know you have linked a video but I have no idea if that person is representative of Afghans or Indians. I am assuming he isn't representative of Pakistanis.
 
certain members on this forum worship him even western women fell head over heels over him .
 
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