India's issue with Balochistan

[IAJ]

When ever I read something about Kashmir here, some indians do bring in Balochistan's name do derail the threads.

What is the issue around Balochistan? I have often seen Balochis on TV saying they are the first ones who will give their lives for Pakistan.

Today I was also wathcing a show with Dr Danish where a balochi Dr Juma Khan Mari was talking about that he has established a union for overseas Balochis and he is also exposing some fake balochis who are getting funding from India and misusing some poor people of Balochistan. These fake Balochis are enjoying their lives in western countries.

This is what impression I get about Balochistan.

So what is this talk about an independent Balochistan, mainly coming from indian posters here?

 

[OoparCut]

Its all Indian fake news. Pakistan army did this to Baloch villages only to practice their skydiving skills.

Even this is fake news - author must be Indian, the newspaper Guardian must be Indian, or maybe they took Indian dirty rooppees.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/balochistan-pakistans-secret-dirty-war

In fact Al jazeera is also Indian fake news:

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/02/black-hole-media-balochistan-2014238128156825.html

 

[sshakir411]

Its all Indian fake news. Pakistan army did this to Baloch villages only to practice their skydiving skills.

Even this is fake news - author must be Indian, the newspaper Guardian must be Indian, or maybe they took Indian dirty rooppees.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/balochistan-pakistans-secret-dirty-war

In fact Al jazeera is also Indian fake news:

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/02/black-hole-media-balochistan-2014238128156825.html

I guess the almighty ISI forced the US Defense Secretary to make these comments about Milk and Honey washed India:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...criticised-for-India-Afghanistan-remarks.html

 

[www787]

View attachment 80646

View attachment 80647

Its all Indian fake news. Pakistan army did this to Baloch villages only to practice their skydiving skills.

Even this is fake news - author must be Indian, the newspaper Guardian must be Indian, or maybe they took Indian dirty rooppees.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/balochistan-pakistans-secret-dirty-war

In fact Al jazeera is also Indian fake news:

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/02/black-hole-media-balochistan-2014238128156825.html

Send Afridi to Balochistan and no balochi will yell out MS Dhoni’s name.

 

[PakLFC]

India does have a reply to all the atrocities in IoK so brings up Baluchistan. Let me remind them that unlike IoK the Baluchistan is a settled area that is not recognised by the UN as a dispute. There are no Indian flags in Baluchistan at all, relax. We can't say the same for IoK, can we?? The problem India has is CPEC and their total failure to destabilise our province through proxies. They hire a few Baluch's if that is what they are then pay them to make anti Pakistan comments.

 

[Pakistanian]

India doesn't care about the Baloch. They're building Chabahar port in Iranian Balochistan which Balich nationalists see as as exploitation of their land and resources but Indians don't even know that there's an Iranian Balochistan
They have no relation to Balochistan.

 

[English August]

India does have a reply to all the atrocities in IoK so brings up Baluchistan. Let me remind them that unlike IoK the Baluchistan is a settled area that is not recognised by the UN as a dispute. There are no Indian flags in Baluchistan at all, relax. We can't say the same for IoK, can we?? The problem India has is CPEC and their total failure to destabilise our province through proxies. They hire a few Baluch's if that is what they are then pay them to make anti Pakistan comments.

You Pakistanis need to make up your mind about UN. If you think UN is legit, then I'd suggest you take a look at the list of terrorists UN released recently. If you think UN is not legit, why do you care what it thinks of freedom movement in Balochistan?

Why would you see Indian flag in Balochistan? Balochis are demanding freedom, they're not saying they want to merge with India. I hope they'd fly their own flag.

 

[English August]

When ever I read something about Kashmir here, some indians do bring in Balochistan's name do derail the threads.

What is the issue around Balochistan? I have often seen Balochis on TV saying they are the first ones who will give their lives for Pakistan.

Today I was also wathcing a show with Dr Danish where a balochi Dr Juma Khan Mari was talking about that he has established a union for overseas Balochis and he is also exposing some fake balochis who are getting funding from India and misusing some poor people of Balochistan. These fake Balochis are enjoying their lives in western countries.

This is what impression I get about Balochistan.

So what is this talk about an independent Balochistan, mainly coming from indian posters here?

Since Pakistan makes a big song-and-dance about Kashmir everyday (but largely ignored by the rest of the world), what's the harm in having a little bit of drama for Balochistan too?

 

[PakLFC]

You Pakistanis need to make up your mind about UN. If you think UN is legit, then I'd suggest you take a look at the list of terrorists UN released recently. If you think UN is not legit, why do you care what it thinks of freedom movement in Balochistan?

Why would you see Indian flag in Balochistan? Balochis are demanding freedom, they're not saying they want to merge with India. I hope they'd fly their own flag.

No, the vast majority of Baluchis are demanding their rights not freedom. We don't need you to lecture us when you have not even visited the place instead depend on some anti India reports. The Pakistani flag is their own one. You worry about all those seeking independence from India.

The UN is a contradictory organisation operated by dark forces. We don't care what it thinks of Balochistan at all when it is not even a recognised dispute. This only worries those who are jealous and envious of CPEC, we know who they are. Just because the UN says someone is a "terrorist" does not make it a FACT, they are not some divine force. Being silent on American atrocities means most Muslim countries and people don't care what they think.

 

[Saeed]

They only reason they care about Baluchistan is because Pakistan brings up the Kashmir issue. Does anyone honestly thinks people who rape, torture and murder innocent Kashmiris care about the rights of Baluchis? People who humiliate their fellow countrymen at every turn and consider them to be Arab invaders/Pakistanis just because they are Muslim can’t care about rights of Baluchis. If the relationship between two countries improved they wouldn’t even know how to spell Baluchistan let alone create troll armies on social media to push their propaganda.

Anyways it shouldn’t matter what India’s issue is with Baluchistan. Forced disappearances and extra judicial killings need to stop. If Baluchis have some grievances then they should get justice from the state.

 

[English August]

No, the vast majority of Baluchis are demanding their rights not freedom. We don't need you to lecture us when you have not even visited the place instead depend on some anti India reports. The Pakistani flag is their own one. You worry about all those seeking independence from India.

The UN is a contradictory organisation operated by dark forces. We don't care what it thinks of Balochistan at all when it is not even a recognised dispute. This only worries those who are jealous and envious of CPEC, we know who they are. Just because the UN says someone is a "terrorist" does not make it a FACT, they are not some divine force. Being silent on American atrocities means most Muslim countries and people don't care what they think.

You appear to be even more confused than I though. If I can't lecture you on Balochistan, what right do you have to lecture anyone on Kashmir? Kashmir is India's internal problem. And before you tell me your gheesa-peeta UN story, let me just remind that you just now posted one full para on pooh-poohing UN.

Make up your mind! You can't have it both ways.

 

[English August]

Anyways it shouldn’t matter what India’s issue is with Baluchistan. Forced disappearances and extra judicial killings need to stop. If Baluchis have some grievances then they should get justice from the state.

Well said. Pakistan must address these genuine demands from Balochis.

 

[LastManstanding]

They only reason they care about Baluchistan is because Pakistan brings up the Kashmir issue. Does anyone honestly thinks people who rape, torture and murder innocent Kashmiris care about the rights of Baluchis? People who humiliate their fellow countrymen at every turn and consider them to be Arab invaders/Pakistanis just because they are Muslim can’t care about rights of Baluchis. If the relationship between two countries improved they wouldn’t even know how to spell Baluchistan let alone create troll armies on social media to push their propaganda.

Anyways it shouldn’t matter what India’s issue is with Baluchistan. Forced disappearances and extra judicial killings need to stop. If Baluchis have some grievances then they should get justice from the state.

And you want us to believe that people who raped, tortured and killed innocent Bengalis really care about the plight of Kashmiris?

 

[ManFan]

And you want us to believe that people who raped, tortured and killed innocent Bengalis really care about the plight of Kashmiris?

Indians say they were Pakistanis.
Pakistanis say they were Indians.

Whoever committed those heinous war crimes, should pay the price.

 

[Saeed]

And you want us to believe that people who raped, tortured and killed innocent Bengalis really care about the plight of Kashmiris?

No I couldn’t careless about what you believe in. Do you want me to believe that you care about innocent Bangladeshis? Do you honestly think India helped them because they cared about the rights of Bangladeshis? Only reason India got involved was because they wanted to break up Pakistan. Now same Bangladeshis are dispised by the BJP fanatics as they don’t want them to come to India. The people who raped, tortured, killed innocent Bengalis are long dead but they were wrong and should have been punished for their crimes. On the other hand my comment applies well to the Indians on this forum because you all defend Indian army’s activities in Kahsmir.

 

[PakLFC]

You appear to be even more confused than I though. If I can't lecture you on Balochistan, what right do you have to lecture anyone on Kashmir? Kashmir is India's internal problem. And before you tell me your gheesa-peeta UN story, let me just remind that you just now posted one full para on pooh-poohing UN.

Make up your mind! You can't have it both ways.

I want it the way of justice. Problem is that you see everything through the eyes of UN, that is where the problem is. I can lecture on Kashmir on the basis of much of it being in Pak. On the basis that the majority people of the valley are protesting and want nothing to do with India. On the basis that most people being Muslim's so should naturally be with us as Pak was established on the Islamic faith. It is not your internal problem, I am not having it for a minute when much of the valley is in Pak. You can say that Assam, Khalistan and other insurgencies in India are your internal problem. If two or more people claim one thing then it becomes a dispute by default even if one side disagree's that is natural, understood? It was Nehru who took the Kashmir issue to the UN, remember that.

 

[LastManstanding]

No I couldn’t careless about what you believe in. Do you want me to believe that you care about innocent Bangladeshis? Do you honestly think India helped them because they cared about the rights of Bangladeshis? Only reason India got involved was because they wanted to break up Pakistan. Now same Bangladeshis are dispised by the BJP fanatics as they don’t want them to come to India. The people who raped, tortured, killed innocent Bengalis are long dead but they were wrong and should have been punished for their crimes. On the other hand my comment applies well to the Indians on this forum because you all defend Indian army’s activities in Kahsmir.

Oh please spare me the sermons about morality. Pakistanis condemn atrocities in Bangladesh because they lost, and they think by condeming it they can take moral high ground. If Bangladesh was still East Pakistan, pakistanis would still be defending the killings and blaming it on India just like they are doing it in Balochistan.

If we really wanted bangladeshis in India, we would have annexed it in 71. We did not want then and we don't want them now.

 

[English August]

I want it the way of justice. Problem is that you see everything through the eyes of UN, that is where the problem is. I can lecture on Kashmir on the basis of much of it being in Pak. On the basis that the majority people of the valley are protesting and want nothing to do with India. On the basis that most people being Muslim's so should naturally be with us as Pak was established on the Islamic faith. It is not your internal problem, I am not having it for a minute when much of the valley is in Pak. You can say that Assam, Khalistan and other insurgencies in India are your internal problem. If two or more people claim one thing then it becomes a dispute by default even if one side disagree's that is natural, understood? It was Nehru who took the Kashmir issue to the UN, remember that.

You're really confused.

Kashmiris are Muslims and therefore it belongs to Pakistan is a theory that was discredited the day millions of Muslims happily chose to stay back in India (and are still there and are very happy -- way happier than Muslims in Pakistan). It was further discredited when you chose to rape your fellow Muslim women in East Pakistan, and India had to liberate them.

It doesn't matter what a keyboard warrior like you says, the reality is that your PM came to Simla in 1972 and signed an agreement that effectively took the matter away from UN and made it a 100% bilateral issue. If you don't agree with him, I'll let you take your fight with your former PM.

 

[Waseem]

India's concern about Balochistan can be compared to Pakistan's concern with Khalistan, in both cases there are few people who may have self interests in running anti state activities but heavy majority don't care about independence.

There is absolutely no comparison between Balochistan and Kashmir and is just a desperate attempt to divert attention.

 

[aniket1911]

Because baluchistan needs world's attention much like kashmir, no press freedom is also a big issue in baluchistan which has severely dented their desire to be free from Pakistan.

Anyways, let's be real, neither of the countries really want anything to do with each other's territory and even if they want to, nothing can be done about it. A simple ingratiating tactic to appease the masses and adding fuel to their Anti-state actions, in a wet dream of breaking that free from their respective country someday.

 

[Saeed]

Oh please spare me the sermons about morality. Pakistanis condemn atrocities in Bangladesh because they lost, and they think by condeming it they can take moral high ground. If Bangladesh was still East Pakistan, pakistanis would still be defending the killings and blaming it on India just like they are doing it in Balochistan.

If we really wanted bangladeshis in India, we would have annexed it in 71. We did not want then and we don't want them now.

Disgusting behaviour. Why did you quote me if you cannot debate like a mature person, were going to make assumptions and can’t admit the mistakes of Indian army on Kashmir? Same to you, spare me the faux outrage on the atrocities committed by the Pakistani army in Bangladesh and elsewhere.

Unfortunately Pakistan and its state institutions can’t take the moral high ground when they are murdering people in Baluchistan or torturing them in FATA but regardless Kashmir remains a disputed territory so they will keep bringing up the issue. Annexation of another territory can create many legal problems internationally, not as simple as its sounds in the post.

 

[Pakistanian]

Oh please spare me the sermons about morality. Pakistanis condemn atrocities in Bangladesh because they lost, and they think by condeming it they can take moral high ground. If Bangladesh was still East Pakistan, pakistanis would still be defending the killings and blaming it on India just like they are doing it in Balochistan.

If we really wanted bangladeshis in India, we would have annexed it in 71. We did not want then and we don't want them now.

Half of Bangladesh is still in India. Bengalis/Bangladeshis are a big part of India, in fact Bengali is the most spoken language in India after Hindi.

 

[aniket1911]

Half of Bangladesh is still in India. Bengalis/Bangladeshis are a big part of India, in fact Bengali is the most spoken language in India after Hindi.

Dude, what an illogical thing to say.

 

[PakLFC]

You're really confused.

Kashmiris are Muslims and therefore it belongs to Pakistan is a theory that was discredited the day millions of Muslims happily chose to stay back in India (and are still there and are very happy -- way happier than Muslims in Pakistan). It was further discredited when you chose to rape your fellow Muslim women in East Pakistan, and India had to liberate them.

It doesn't matter what a keyboard warrior like you says, the reality is that your PM came to Simla in 1972 and signed an agreement that effectively took the matter away from UN and made it a 100% bilateral issue. If you don't agree with him, I'll let you take your fight with your former PM.

To a confused individual everything seems confused. Your comments lack logic and are senseless. The Muslim's who are India did so by choice where as Kashmiris did not. The Indian army invaded the place, we all know that. Kashmiri Muslim's carry the Pakistani flag that is enough evidence, other Muslim's of your country by and large do not. We did not rape anything, that is the job of your army hence India being branded as the "rape capital of the world!". That is what your army does in all of Kashmir and India. Remember that banner saying" India army rapes us" by the tribal ladies? 1971 is not the debate here so stick to the subject at hand

Nehru took the matter to the UN first. Simla does not matter to me and can be decided afterwards. If I am a "keyboard warrior" then so are you pal and many more! Reality is that IoK is on fire, I don't need to do anything when they are doing a fantastic job themselves! You can't stop the fire and hatred towards India in IoK!

 

[troodon]

THere is no IOK. It is part of Jammu & Kashmir and it is one of India’s 29 states and an all ntegral part of India.

 

[Pakistanian]

Because baluchistan needs world's attention much like kashmir, no press freedom is also a big issue in baluchistan which has severely dented their desire to be free from Pakistan.

Anyways, let's be real, neither of the countries really want anything to do with each other's territory and even if they want to, nothing can be done about it. A simple ingratiating tactic to appease the masses and adding fuel to their Anti-state actions, in a wet dream of breaking that free from their respective country someday.

Does India care about the Baloch in Iran that are being persecuted? Balochistan is divided into three parts, I'll let y'all guess who has the third part lol.

 

[Saeed]

Does India care about the Baloch in Iran that are being persecuted? Balochistan is divided into three parts, I'll let y'all guess who has the third part lol.

Of course not, further instability in Sistan-Baluchistan will not be good for Chabahar.

 

[English August]

Nehru took the matter to the UN first. Simla does not matter to me and can be decided afterwards.

Since you yourselves are acknowledging the sequence, don't you realize that what happens later overrides what happened first?

Just a reminder: 1972 (Simla Agreement between India and Pakistan) came after 1948. So Simla Agreement overrides all previous transactions.

As I said, if you don't like the Simla Agreement, you'll have to sort it out with ZAB.

 

[troodon]

Does India care about the Baloch in Iran that are being persecuted? Balochistan is divided into three parts, I'll let y'all guess who has the third part lol.

I am a South Indian. Can you pls tell me what those 3 parts are and who controls them?

 

[JaDed]

What is India's issue? Are a couple of Indian posters representing India now? Our cricketers,celebs don't go on tweeting about Balochistan.

 

[Pakistanian]

I am a South Indian. Can you pls tell me what those 3 parts are and who controls them?

Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan.

 

[BlackShadow]

Pakistani army has butchered thousands there and Indians will bring it up every time Pakistanis play humanitarian angels. The scale of Baloch genocide and human rights violation makes Kashmir look like relative heaven.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Balochistan

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38454483

 

[Pakistanian]

Pakistani army has butchered thousands there and Indians will bring it up every time Pakistanis play humanitarian angels. The scale of Baloch genocide and human rights violation makes Kashmir look like relative heaven.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Balochistan

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38454483

Kashmir had a far high death toll and also has had far more women raped.

 

[BlackShadow]

Kashmir had a far high death toll and also has had far more women raped.

Share the links to your claims. Death toll in Balochistan has been far higher since 2000s and this has gone unnoticed by Pakistanis like you.

One Burhan Wani getting killed had your media and awaaam crying for years, but what about thousands of Burhans who were butchered by your army in Balochistan? Who cries for them?

 

[BlackShadow]

Like Pakistanis support their army's actions against Baloch freedom fighters, so do Indians against Kashmiri terrorists. Pakistanis crying about what Indian army does only exposes their double standards.

 

[troodon]

Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan.

Thank you.

 

[Itachi]

India does have a reply to all the atrocities in IoK so brings up Baluchistan. Let me remind them that unlike IoK the Baluchistan is a settled area that is not recognised by the UN as a dispute. There are no Indian flags in Baluchistan at all, relax. We can't say the same for IoK, can we?? The problem India has is CPEC and their total failure to destabilise our province through proxies. They hire a few Baluch's if that is what they are then pay them to make anti Pakistan comments.

UN removed kashmir wrt a disputed area from its list long ago.

 

[Madplayer]

UN removed kashmir wrt a disputed area from its list long ago.

Lets see some links showing that J&K isnt considered a dispute as per UN in 2018. Otherwise you should appologise here for lying and misleading people.

 

[Madplayer]

On topic, Pakistanis should clarify a few things to bury this matter :

1) Is Balochistan a dispute beween the Baloch and rest of Pakistanis? If yes, is it recognised by UN?

2) Does any other country claim the land of Balochistan and has it raised the issue in the UN?

3) Is Balochistan not already a part of the union or are there any predetermined conditions which need to be fulfiled in order to make them a concrete part of Pakistan?

4) What is the demographic make up of Balochistan? Who is in majority? Last i heard was that Pathans were more in number than the Balochs there.

5) Do the Balochis who protest demand freedom or just their rights and development?

 

[Poutine]

UN removed kashmir wrt a disputed area from its list long ago.

Source/Link? or are you just making stuff up?

 

[BlackShadow]

On topic, Pakistanis should clarify a few things to bury this matter :

1) Is Balochistan a dispute beween the Baloch and rest of Pakistanis? If yes, is it recognised by UN?

2) Does any other country claim the land of Balochistan and has it raised the issue in the UN?

3) Is Balochistan not already a part of the union or are there any predetermined conditions which need to be fulfiled in order to make them a concrete part of Pakistan?

4) What is the demographic make up of Balochistan? Who is in majority? Last i heard was that Pathans were more in number than the Balochs there.

5) Do the Balochis who protest demand freedom or just their rights and development?

UN the spineless body is irrelevant. The real issue being raised by Indians is humanitarian. Lives matter irrespective of whether the land happens to be disputed or not.

 

[Hermoine Green]

UN the spineless body is irrelevant. The real issue being raised by Indians is humanitarian. Lives matter irrespective of whether the land happens to be disputed or not.

Ok, so whenever is Kashmir issue, then you people change your standards


Then UN becomes a real deal, then no body is allowed to talk on HUMANITARIAN grounds )

What kind of double standards you people have? Should get an Oscar for this.

 

[Hermoine Green]

On topic, Pakistanis should clarify a few things to bury this matter :

1) Is Balochistan a dispute beween the Baloch and rest of Pakistanis? If yes, is it recognised by UN?

No

2) Does any other country claim the land of Balochistan and has it raised the issue in the UN?

NO

3) Is Balochistan not already a part of the union or are there any predetermined conditions which need to be fulfiled in order to make them a concrete part of Pakistan?

It is already a part of Pakistan (without any Dispute)

4) What is the demographic make up of Balochistan? Who is in majority? Last i heard was that Pathans were more in number than the Balochs there.

52% per pashtuns as far i know

5) Do the Balochis who protest demand freedom or just their rights and development?

On topic, Pakistanis should clarify a few things to bury this matter :

1) Is Balochistan a dispute beween the Baloch and rest of Pakistanis? If yes, is it recognised by UN?

No

2) Does any other country claim the land of Balochistan and has it raised the issue in the UN?

NO

3) Is Balochistan not already a part of the union or are there any predetermined conditions which need to be fulfiled in order to make them a concrete part of Pakistan?

It is already a part of Pakistan (without any Dispute)

4) What is the demographic make up of Balochistan? Who is in majority? Last i heard was that Pathans were more in number than the Balochs there.

52% per pashtuns as far i know

5) Do the Balochis who protest demand freedom or just their rights and development?

Don't know, who told you this. There are people everywhere in world who speaks like this, even in India. But it doesnt reflect that Whole Balochistan is asking for freedom. Not even a question.

And you are talking about rights??? Sadiq Sanjrani is from Balochistan who is chairman of Senate.

 

[BlackShadow]

Ok, so whenever is Kashmir issue, then you people change your standards


Then UN becomes a real deal, then no body is allowed to talk on HUMANITARIAN grounds )

What kind of double standards you people have? Should get an Oscar for this.

Lol, what? It is Pakistanis crying about Kashmir human rights situation when your army is butchering Baloch people in thousands. That's what qualifies as double standards.

 

[BlackShadow]

On topic, Pakistanis should clarify a few things to bury this matter :

1) Is Balochistan a dispute beween the Baloch and rest of Pakistanis? If yes, is it recognised by UN?

No

2) Does any other country claim the land of Balochistan and has it raised the issue in the UN?

NO

3) Is Balochistan not already a part of the union or are there any predetermined conditions which need to be fulfiled in order to make them a concrete part of Pakistan?

It is already a part of Pakistan (without any Dispute)

4) What is the demographic make up of Balochistan? Who is in majority? Last i heard was that Pathans were more in number than the Balochs there.

52% per pashtuns as far i know

5) Do the Balochis who protest demand freedom or just their rights and development?

Don't know, who told you this. There are people everywhere in world who speaks like this, even in India. But it doesnt reflect that Whole Balochistan is asking for freedom. Not even a question.

And you are talking about rights??? Sadiq Sanjrani is from Balochistan who is chairman of Senate.

So thousands of Balochs have been butchered because they demand their rights and development? Wow. At least Indian army has the self-defence excuse to open fire. What excuse does your army have?

 

[Hermoine Green]

Lol, what? It is Pakistanis crying about Kashmir human rights situation when your army is butchering Baloch people in thousands. That's what qualifies as double standards.

Then prove it with the word "is" .
At least "is" can be proved easily for Kashmir issue
Now dont run.

 

[Hermoine Green]

So thousands of Balochs have been butchered because they demand their rights and development? Wow. At least Indian army has the self-defence excuse to open fire. What excuse does your army have?

Prove it

At least world is seeing every day killing in Kashmir and am sure numbers are in Millions.

Oh yeah, how can you forget Gujrat?

 

[BlackShadow]

Prove it

At least world is seeing every day killing in Kashmir and am sure numbers are in Millions.

Oh yeah, how can you forget Gujrat?

Typical denial, and that's the reason Pakistani humanitarian concerns aren't taken seriously. Despite the massive cover up, thousands of dumped bodies of Baloch activists and separatists are recovered routinely.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38454483
https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/pakistan-...ed-bodies-activists-found-balochistan-1598493
http://www.dawn.com/news/1306343

More than 20,000 people have been reported to go missing, to never be seen again. Bodies were never recovered.

https://thediplomat.com/2014/01/balochistans-missing-persons/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Balochistan

Now bring me the source for your made up claims.

 

[BlackShadow]

Prove it

At least world is seeing every day killing in Kashmir and am sure numbers are in Millions.

Oh yeah, how can you forget Gujrat?

Gujarat reference shows you have nothing much to say. Those were Hindu-Muslim riots and Indian army didn't kill people or dump mutilated bodies like your army does quite routinely in Balochistan.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Typical denial, and that's the reason Pakistani humanitarian concerns aren't taken seriously. Despite the massive cover up, thousands of dumped bodies of Baloch activists and separatists are recovered routinely.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38454483
https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/pakistan-...ed-bodies-activists-found-balochistan-1598493
http://www.dawn.com/news/1306343

More than 20,000 people have been reported to go missing, to never be seen again. Bodies were never recovered.

https://thediplomat.com/2014/01/balochistans-missing-persons/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Balochistan

Now bring me the source for your made up claims.

Comprehension problems????

I said prove it " Pak army IS BUTCHERING " .....

And one last thing about Balochistan, there is a hug difference between missing, killing, report and FACTS.


I have made it bold for you so hope you can see it clearly now

And i havent made any claim, every one can see people being killed in Kashmir at the hands of Indian Army. So there is no need for any source of it.

Also i guess you dont know the difference between Missing, Killed, reported, accused and FACTS.

So please go and dig more about it kindly and yep on the other hand also try to do a little bit of research about killing in Kashmir (by your Army) and state the numbers.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Gujarat reference shows you have nothing much to say. Those were Hindu-Muslim riots and Indian army didn't kill people or dump mutilated bodies like your army does quite routinely in Balochistan.

Gujarat reference you couldnt get i guess Because you think reports = facts, so by going through your logic Modi is responsible for those murders ( Don't yell, i know he was proven innocent by court, am just stating your logic )

And the other bold, not proven yet.

While killing in kashmir by Indian Army is a proven fact.

Or they are not killed by Indian Army?

 

[BlackShadow]

Comprehension problems????

I said prove it " Pak army IS BUTCHERING " .....

And one last thing about Balochistan, there is a hug difference between missing, killing, report and FACTS.


I have made it bold for you so hope you can see it clearly now

And i havent made any claim, every one can see people being killed in Kashmir at the hands of Indian Army. So there is no need for any source of it.

Also i guess you dont know the difference between Missing, Killed, reported, accused and FACTS.

So please go and dig more about it kindly and yep on the other hand also try to do a little bit of research about killing in Kashmir (by your Army) and state the numbers.

Disgusting how you laugh off the Baloch genocide and then visit a Kashmir thread to shed tears about the use of pellet guns. Thousands of mutilated Baloch activist and separatists bodies being recovered since 2011 is a fact or not? All of them murdered for demanding development, huh?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38454483
https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/pakistan-...ed-bodies-activists-found-balochistan-1598493

Now prove that the situation has been any worse in Indian Kashmir. This time, bring FACTS like I did.

 

[dhonixi]

Just like you care about human lives in Kashmir, we care about baloch and ahmedis lives in Pakistan, which you guys are cleaning as a state policy by declaring them kafir.

 

[BlackShadow]

Gujarat reference you couldnt get i guess Because you think reports = facts, so by going through your logic Modi is responsible for those murders ( Don't yell, i know he was proven innocent by court, am just stating your logic )

And the other bold, not proven yet.

While killing in kashmir by Indian Army is a proven fact.

Or they are not killed by Indian Army?

Not proven? So all those Baloch activists and separatists decided to go missing and later be discovered dead just so that Pakistani army could be accused of a genocide? Pathetic.

At least Indians here stay truthful and consistent when it comes to acknowledging army actions, but the kind of double standards Pakistanis have is embarrassing to say the least.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indians say they were Pakistanis.
Pakistanis say they were Indians.

Whoever committed those heinous war crimes, should pay the price.

Yea right. OP Searchlight was launched by India. Even Pakistans own Hamidur Rehman committee blames Pak Army for genocide.

May be read what is the blood telegram.

Bengali speaking east pakistanis are a separate nation wonder why.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Isnt it true that PAF F16s were used in Balochistan? Why if it was such a peaceful place?

Pakistanis will flock to kashmir thread and show sympathy. But their own countrymen are being killed. No sympathy for Pakistani hindus who ate running away and coming to India.

Nothing for Hazaras or Ahmedis.

Then they wonder why their fake sympathies get no support worldwide.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Balochistan is switch bait from India.

At the moment India is experiencing an uprising from the Dalit community, and Dalits are being butchered/tortured/discriminated left right and centre. India is attempting to deviate the attention from the harsh realities in India, and course trying to defuse Afridi Tweet meltdown.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/dontletindiaburn

The above is just one feed out of many; it is truly shocking.

 

[akki]

Balochistan is switch bait from India.

At the moment India is experiencing an uprising from the Dalit community, and Dalits are being butchered/tortured/discriminated left right and centre. India is attempting to deviate the attention from the harsh realities in India, and course trying to defuse Afridi Tweet meltdown.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/dontletindiaburn

The above is just one feed out of many; it is truly shocking.

What you have to say about riots going on in pakistan between men and women and between men who wear black and men who dnt wear black. World is not blind to see that you know.

 

[ManFan]

Yea right. OP Searchlight was launched by India. Even Pakistans own Hamidur Rehman committee blames Pak Army for genocide.

May be read what is the blood telegram.

Bengali speaking east pakistanis are a separate nation wonder why.

I was speaking on behalf of experience in Pakistan.

Ultimately, the genocide will be attributed to Pakistanis.

But some of them claim that they were Indian soldiered dressed up as Pakistani soldiers committing war crimes.

 

[DW44]

No beef (I guess). Just exploiting a chin in our armor to strengthen their position relative to ours on the world stage. Our army is the **** of the earth but compared to what the Indian army does in Kashmir, they're saints. With Balochistan, India has a convenient glass houses argument to fall back on any time Pakistan raises the Kashmir issue. Off course the two aren't comparable but which side the world believes depends on more than which side is right on the facts and that's where India has us beat.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Our army is the **** of the earth but compared to what the Indian army does in Kashmir, they're saints.

What an odd comment to make. How do you know that when you have no idea what goes in Balochistan .. your media certainly doesn't cover it. Any pak media figure who attempts to investigate will put his life in jeopardy. Hamid Mir almost got fatally wounded , luckily he recovered, learnt his lesson and never spoke about Balochistan ever again.

The only reason folks on this forums know so much about Kashmir is because of a transparent media culture that covers everything that goes on there , warts and all ..

 

[www787]

What an odd comment to make. How do you know that when you have no idea what goes in Balochistan .. your media certainly doesn't cover it. Any pak media figure who attempts to investigate will put his life in jeopardy. Hamid Mir almost got fatally wounded , luckily he recovered, learnt his lesson and never spoke about Balochistan ever again.

The only reason folks on this forums know so much about Kashmir is because of a transparent media culture that covers everything that goes on there , warts and all ..

Do you really think Pakistani people are naive and stupid? some journalist getting shot or kidnapped, it isn't difficult to put 2 in 2 together to figure it out. And, most Pakistani understand what has army done.

It is other way, most Indian are oblivious either intentionally or unintentionally to the fact that their army have and is indiscriminately killing innocent with a disproportional force.

lets not get carried away and compare Pakistani media with Indian, One Afridi tweet just exposed Indian media. No comparison here.

 

[waqar goraya]

What an odd comment to make. How do you know that when you have no idea what goes in Balochistan .. your media certainly doesn't cover it. Any pak media figure who attempts to investigate will put his life in jeopardy. Hamid Mir almost got fatally wounded , luckily he recovered, learnt his lesson and never spoke about Balochistan ever again.

The only reason folks on this forums know so much about Kashmir is because of a transparent media culture that covers everything that goes on there , warts and all ..

The ignorance that some Indians show here !

The legal status and comparison of Baluchistan and Kashmir aside, there is no six hundred thousand troop strength in Baluchistan. There are no mass protests in Quetta against the state. People are not being blinded and maimed with pellets in great numbers.
If hundreds of thousands of people were coming out in protests across Baluchistan, time and again, despite great oppression ; you won't need a media to know it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No beef (I guess). Just exploiting a chin in our armor to strengthen their position relative to ours on the world stage. Our army is the **** of the earth but compared to what the Indian army does in Kashmir, they're saints. With Balochistan, India has a convenient glass houses argument to fall back on any time Pakistan raises the Kashmir issue. Off course the two aren't comparable but which side the world believes depends on more than which side is right on the facts and that's where India has us beat.

What did the saints do in Bangladesh?

 

[DW44]

What an odd comment to make. How do you know that when you have no idea what goes in Balochistan .. your media certainly doesn't cover it. Any pak media figure who attempts to investigate will put his life in jeopardy. Hamid Mir almost got fatally wounded , luckily he recovered, learnt his lesson and never spoke about Balochistan ever again.

The only reason folks on this forums know so much about Kashmir is because of a transparent media culture that covers everything that goes on there , warts and all ..

What makes you think people are completely unaware of what happens in Balochistan? Indians seem to have been fed some ridiculous narrative about Balochistan, creating a false equivalence with Kashmir. While coverage of the military's human rights violations in Balochistan in the mainstream media is rare, there is enough information going around, especially if you're involved with academia (most universities have at least a few leftist professors who discuss stuff like that), have friends/relatives in the military who're honest enough to talk about it, or have enough common sense to read human rights watch's report. Al Jazeera actually went into the province and produced a 30 minute report - albeit one I'm sure must have gone through the "official" approval process. Don't assume that we don't know what's going on in Balochistan. Whatever Pakistan's faults, the nonsense Indians believe about Pakistan boggles the mind.

 

[DW44]

What did the saints do in Bangladesh?

Didn't do that in Balochistan though. The comparison drawn here was a direct one between what they do in Balochistan and what IA does in Kashmir since Indian posters were suggesting that there was some sort of equivalency between the two.

 

[PakLFC]

Since you yourselves are acknowledging the sequence, don't you realize that what happens later overrides what happened first?

Just a reminder: 1972 (Simla Agreement between India and Pakistan) came after 1948. So Simla Agreement overrides all previous transactions.

As I said, if you don't like the Simla Agreement, you'll have to sort it out with ZAB.

No way! You want us to forget what Nehru said?? Never gonna happen. You have to contact Nehru first and ask him why he went to the UN then I will contact the one responsible for 1972. Now, the Kashmiris want no part of India as we know. I have no problem in the Muslim's of Delhi being part of India but Kashmiris never agreed to anything. Some letter written by a Sikh Maharaja that you have never shown does not matter.

 

[PakLFC]

UN removed kashmir wrt a disputed area from its list long ago.

I don't care what the UN says or thinks. I don't respect an organisation that has not solved one world problem and kept silent when the American's invaded Iraq. Pakistanis insist and Kashmiris do to that it is disputed.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

View attachment 80646

View attachment 80647

Its all Indian fake news. Pakistan army did this to Baloch villages only to practice their skydiving skills.

Even this is fake news - author must be Indian, the newspaper Guardian must be Indian, or maybe they took Indian dirty rooppees.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/balochistan-pakistans-secret-dirty-war

In fact Al jazeera is also Indian fake news:

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/02/black-hole-media-balochistan-2014238128156825.html

These pics are from Pak Army's operation in South Waziristan
Here's the link.
https://www.google.com.au/search?tb...q8aJljkYsGwBpmdr6rBQQ98yU9JawOTzcQHcN21-ljsvQ

The Guardian's report is from 2011 and Al Jazeera's report is from 2014.
Even if you skim through the reports, you'll still be able to find that both reports mention INDIAN FUNDED MILITANCY in Balochistan (which is acknowledged by Pak, British and US intelligence).

Kindly try harder than just a Google search next time whenever you wanna talk about Balochistan.

 

[Thomaskutty]

What makes you think people are completely unaware of what happens in Balochistan? Indians seem to have been fed some ridiculous narrative about Balochistan, creating a false equivalence with Kashmir. While coverage of the military's human rights violations in Balochistan in the mainstream media is rare, there is enough information going around, especially if you're involved with academia (most universities have at least a few leftist professors who discuss stuff like that), have friends/relatives in the military who're honest enough to talk about it, or have enough common sense to read human rights watch's report. Al Jazeera actually went into the province and produced a 30 minute report - albeit one I'm sure must have gone through the "official" approval process. Don't assume that we don't know what's going on in Balochistan. Whatever Pakistan's faults, the nonsense Indians believe about Pakistan boggles the mind.

Why do you call it false equivalence ? I'm amused that you make an absolute distinction between Kashmir and Balochistan without any reference point particularly when HRW describes what happens in Balochistan as large scale HR violations and abuse. Is there a 'saintly' version of large scale HR violations ?

There is a total media blockade on anything balochistan-related as you admit , so no independent way of assessing what goes on there .. but because you hear anecdotal good things from a professor here or a relative there , Kashmir is much worse ... sure.. very believable.

 

[English August]

No way! You want us to forget what Nehru said?? Never gonna happen. You have to contact Nehru first and ask him why he went to the UN then I will contact the one responsible for 1972. Now, the Kashmiris want no part of India as we know. I have no problem in the Muslim's of Delhi being part of India but Kashmiris never agreed to anything. Some letter written by a Sikh Maharaja that you have never shown does not matter.

Doesn't matter what you think of Nehru's letter. What matters is your PM went to Simla and signed a proper agreement that said that it's a bilateral matter. End of.

Everything you say is irrelevant.

Pak has unsuccessfully tried to internationalize Kashmir issue for decades. These days even the OIC ignores it.

Good luck with your rants though.

 

[PakLFC]

Doesn't matter what you think of Nehru's letter. What matters is your PM went to Simla and signed a proper agreement that said that it's a bilateral matter. End of.

Everything you say is irrelevant.

Pak has unsuccessfully tried to internationalize Kashmir issue for decades. These days even the OIC ignores it.

Good luck with your rants though.

Equally what you say is also irrelevant to us too. Ultimately, it will be decided on the battlefield like the forming of Pakistan was. Nehru's letter is a fact that still stands, you can't just wash it away and pretend it did not happen. LoC is on fire and your soldiers are dying every day. Enjoy....

 

[DW44]

Why do you call it false equivalence ? I'm amused that you make an absolute distinction between Kashmir and Balochistan without any reference point particularly when HRW describes what happens in Balochistan as large scale HR violations and abuse. Is there a 'saintly' version of large scale HR violations ?

Love how conveniently you ignore the use of mass rape as a weapon of war in Kashmir. That doesn't happen in Balochistan and that alone is enough to make a distinction between the two. The saintly version would be Kashmir without the mass rape.

There is a total media blockade on anything balochistan-related as you admit , so no independent way of assessing what goes on there .. but because you hear anecdotal good things from a professor here or a relative there , Kashmir is much worse ... sure.. very believable.

That's nonsense that the Indian media feeds you. Total media blockade does not equate to no information being available in the mainstream. There's enough going around even if to you, as an outsider, it is not obvious, never mind the fact that given your views, it would not be too much of a stretch for you to completely ignore that fact and rant on. Last thing I need is a lesson on what's going on in Balochistan from someone who couldn't point it out on a map and believes that media blockade equates to no information going around.

 

[Loralai]

[MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] is completely correct in his assessment here. I am of Baloch ancestry (though have not spend a great amount of time there) and I have to say that the circumstances, as far as I'm aware, are very different. The Baloch have genuine grievances with how they have been treated and are pushing for acknowledgement of these problems and their rights. There is no doubt the situation has been poorly handed by the armed forces. However, there is enough information about the situation inside Pakistan and there is slowly a growing awareness and, in certain circles, an acceptances of the problems this province faces.

To equate it to the situation in Kashmir, where people do not see themselves as Indians, is not accurate. I personally think this is a smokescreen put on by Indians to deflect criticism of Kashmir by Pakistanis.

I'm not a Pakistani nationalist or a fan of the Pak armed forces but one must be reasonable when assessing this situation. What is happening in Kashmir is unacceptable and I am very surprised to see the lack of condemnation from within certain Indian circles. As a Pakistani, I am willing to condemn the errors that Pakistani governments have made in Balochistan over the decades and realise that there is a need to open up this subject and bring it into the mainstream. Similarly, I hope too our Indian friends can accept the horrible handling of Kashmir situation by the Indian army and state and realise how necessary it is to change their outlook on this issue.

 

[OoparCut]

Love how conveniently you ignore the use of mass rape as a weapon of war in Kashmir. That doesn't happen in Balochistan and that alone is enough to make a distinction between the two. The saintly version would be Kashmir without the mass rape.



That's nonsense that the Indian media feeds you. Total media blockade does not equate to no information being available in the mainstream. There's enough going around even if to you, as an outsider, it is not obvious, never mind the fact that given your views, it would not be too much of a stretch for you to completely ignore that fact and rant on. Last thing I need is a lesson on what's going on in Balochistan from someone who couldn't point it out on a map and believes that media blockade equates to no information going around.

What is this "mass rape" propaganda that gets thrown around all the time? Its a standard talking point, but nothing to back it up.

And btw DW, I'v seen some bluntly honest posts from you. And you don't need any lectures about reality from me. But let's call a spade a spade - Balochistan's "accession" to Pakistan is much more questionable than Kashmir's to India. Jinnah gave questionable legal advice to the Baloch ruler in a very blatant conflict of interest, which stopped him from declaring independence. Given the ocean access that Balochistan has, and its gas reserves, it could easily have been another middle-eastern petro-dollar nation. Its not landlocked like Kashmir or Tibet. And the Balochis have rebelled against its "occupying state" for a longer period, and with more warfare than the Kashmiris, and that too independent of any Lashkars and Jaishs from outside. India has never had to resort to aerial bombardment of its Kashmiris, like the PakMil has done repeatedly since the 1970s.

So there is a ton of commanility between Balochistan and Kashmir. Especially if you are serious about the concerns of human rights, sovereignty and excessive force used by national military. The major difference is that until recently India hasn't really been fishing in those troubled waters. Unlike Pakistan's constant meddling in Kashmir.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Love how conveniently you ignore the use of mass rape as a weapon of war in Kashmir. That doesn't happen in Balochistan and that alone is enough to make a distinction between the two. The saintly version would be Kashmir without the mass rape.

Like I said , your anecdotes don't count for much .. there is no independent way of verifying the abuses that happen in Balochistan , rapes included. There are plenty of Baloch activists (atleast the ones that make it out alive) that have accused the Pak army of mass rape and abduction , but I doubt you'll believe them.

Btw how disingenuous is this .. shift goalposts by ignoring other HR violations and narrow down the crime to rape simply to make a point on the thread.. you can be as slippery as an eel

I can't stress enough the importance of media coverage on perception. When one region has 24/7 coverage like Kashmir and the other has a total blackout , pretty much anyone fair-minded will declare the latter as far more grave and suspicious a situation than the other. This is just common sense. The latter has something they are deeply ashamed of and want to hide from the world. As Oopartcut mentioned it is amusing to see you transform from an army skeptic to a bit of fauji bhakt here .. sad.

 

[Pakistanian]

Like I said , your anecdotes don't count for much .. there is no independent way of verifying the abuses that happen in Balochistan , rapes included. There are plenty of Baloch activists (atleast the ones that make it out alive) that have accused the Pak army of mass rape and abduction , but I doubt you'll believe them.

Btw how disingenuous is this .. shift goalposts by ignoring other HR violations and narrow down the crime to rape simply to make a point on the thread.. you can be as slippery as an eel

I can't stress enough the importance of media coverage on perception. When one region has 24/7 coverage like Kashmir and the other has a total blackout , pretty much anyone fair-minded will declare the latter as far more grave and suspicious a situation than the other. This is just common sense. The latter has something they are deeply ashamed of and want to hide from the world. As Oopartcut mentioned it is amusing to see you transform from an army skeptic to a bit of fauji bhakt here .. sad.

Tf you talkon about Indian occupied Kashmir has a whole media blackout.

 

[OoparCut]

Tf you talkon about Indian occupied Kashmir has a whole media blackout.

Yes, it cannot be denied that there is media censorship at work in J&K. But balochistan is whole another level. Journalists get thrown out of helicopters if they dare to cross 'the line'.

 

[IAJ]

[MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] is completely correct in his assessment here. I am of Baloch ancestry (though have not spend a great amount of time there) and I have to say that the circumstances, as far as I'm aware, are very different. The Baloch have genuine grievances with how they have been treated and are pushing for acknowledgement of these problems and their rights. There is no doubt the situation has been poorly handed by the armed forces. However, there is enough information about the situation inside Pakistan and there is slowly a growing awareness and, in certain circles, an acceptances of the problems this province faces.

To equate it to the situation in Kashmir, where people do not see themselves as Indians, is not accurate. I personally think this is a smokescreen put on by Indians to deflect criticism of Kashmir by Pakistanis.

I'm not a Pakistani nationalist or a fan of the Pak armed forces but one must be reasonable when assessing this situation. What is happening in Kashmir is unacceptable and I am very surprised to see the lack of condemnation from within certain Indian circles. As a Pakistani, I am willing to condemn the errors that Pakistani governments have made in Balochistan over the decades and realise that there is a need to open up this subject and bring it into the mainstream. Similarly, I hope too our Indian friends can accept the horrible handling of Kashmir situation by the Indian army and state and realise how necessary it is to change their outlook on this issue.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Balanced post. Not surprised some Indians are ignoring this post...