Insanity Alert: Does the actions of the ancestors of a particular nation justify the retribution against their present generations?

[The Bald Eagle]

It sounds as dumb as it gets. Imagine the world calling for the annihilation of Germans because of what they did to Jews or World nations during World Wars. Or chanting slogans for dead to current American lot because their ancestors committed outrageous crimes against the red Indians or how they vaporized the Japanese.

If all this sounds so dumb then how some current modern generation woke people living in some countries could call for subjugating or oppressing a particular community just because they rule them over a millennium. So any such dogma in the year 2025 makes any sense to you guys?

 

[Champ_Pal]

No.
The present day humans have nothing to do with what the it ancestors did. In India’s case, what Mughals did has nothing to do with a Muslim who once upon a time was a Kumar and Prasad. Mughals were outsiders have left very little genetic footprint on local Indians. More than 90% of Indian Muslims are local converts. So can’t blame them.

At the same time Indian Muslims getting defensive against Mughal bashing is also silly. They have nothing to do with Mughals. Aurangzeb is not their great great grandpa.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No.
The present day humans have nothing to do with what the it ancestors did. In India’s case, what Mughals did has nothing to do with a Muslim who once upon a time was a Kumar and Prasad. Mughals were outsiders have left very little genetic footprint on local Indians. More than 90% of Indian Muslims are local converts. So can’t blame them.

At the same time Indian Muslims getting defensive against Mughal bashing is also silly. They have nothing to do with Mughals. Aurangzeb is not their great great grandpa.

Fine then why still Muslim bashing on Peak in India in 2025...Infact torture against them too

 

[topspin]

This is an Indian speciality. According to my sources this kind of misinformation is spread in call centres.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's even worse when it's fake history that these people spread to justify modern hate.

 

[sweep_shot]

This is an Indian speciality. According to my sources this kind of misinformation is spread in call centres.

Agree.

This type of stupidity is generally present in India. Not anywhere else. Not to this extent at least.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

That's a googly.

 

[Greenstorm]

The kind of hate and blind nationalism I see in India makes me believe that India is going nowhere for the foreseeable future. People in India can observe it more accurately but in civilizational sense, from the outside it seems like India is getting weaker unless they go through a major turnaround.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

May be for some of these guys, it is too hard to think past the fallacies that they learned from their school text books.

 

[Devadwal]

The kind of hate and blind nationalism I see in India makes me believe that India is going nowhere for the foreseeable future. People in India can observe it more accurately but in civilizational sense, from the outside it seems like India is getting weaker unless they go through a major turnaround.

And Pakistani people's always living in delusional world

 

[Champ_Pal]

Fine then why still Muslim bashing on Peak in India in 2025...Infact torture against them too

Politics. It’s not bashing. It’s called divide and conquer. Every political party does it. BJP is no different. In a pluralistic society which tries to take refuge in their religion, these things are bound to happen.
As long as the basing is not physical, it should be allowed from both sides.

But India is a 3rd world country with tribal mindset. So incidents of killings over faith happen a few times a year. Multiculturalism and pluralism works when people ca. think above their religion and beliefs. India is not that developed yet to rise above religion, caste, race and sex.

 

[Greenstorm]

Politics. It’s not bashing. It’s called divide and conquer. Every political party does it. BJP is no different. In a pluralistic society which tries to take refuge in their religion, these things are bound to happen.
As long as the basing is not physical, it should be allowed from both sides.

But India is a 3rd world country with tribal mindset. So incidents of killings over faith happen a few times a year. Multiculturalism and pluralism works when people ca. think above their religion and beliefs. India is not that developed yet to rise above religion, caste, race and sex.

Do you think Indians will be able to rise above this in this century ?

 

[Hitman]

Can you imagine current day Germany glorifying and fondly remembering the Nazis? Therein lies the difference. You want to glorify those subhuman invaders of the subcontinent in Pakistan and Bangladesh, fine. Don't expect us in India follow suit.​

 

[Rajdeep]

Can you imagine current day Germany glorifying and fondly remembering the Nazis? Therein lies the difference. You want to glorify those subhuman invaders of the subcontinent in Pakistan and Bangladesh, fine. Don't expect us in India follow suit.​

Correct. No one is holding present generation responsible for the actions of their predecessors. In the case of sub continent muslims, those invaders were not even their predecessors as much as they try to fit in..lol but that is another story. However glorifying them today in the year 2025, very well knowing they were barbaric is the issue. No one is asking to erase the history but glorifying those tyrants is the issue.

 

[Greenstorm]

Can you imagine current day Germany glorifying and fondly remembering the Nazis? Therein lies the difference. You want to glorify those subhuman invaders of the subcontinent in Pakistan and Bangladesh, fine. Don't expect us in India follow suit.​

'Invaders' are subhuman but Maratha empire was established by complete humans ?

 

[Rajdeep]

'Invaders' are subhuman but Maratha empire was established by complete humans ?

So many threads on Maratha empires opened by Indians here glorifying them right? Oh wait....

 

[Greenstorm]

They literally elected an illiterate and toxic chaiwala as their PM.



If they are so fussy about invaders, why do they play cricket (an invader sport)? They should quit cricket and play kabaddi or something.

Their issue is not with the invader but the religion of the invader. British empire sucked far more resources from this region than any invader but you won't see such vitriol for them.

 

[Greenstorm]

So many threads on Maratha empires opened by Indians here glorifying them right? Oh wait....

This is a Pakistani forum. What is your argument ? That Indians(Hindus) don't glorify Marathans ? Not even on Indian forums ?

Besides, there are actual threads here where Indians discussed the 'positive contributions' of Marathan empire. Oh wait indeed.

 

[sweep_shot]

Their issue is not with the invader but the religion of the invader. British empire sucked far more resources from this region than any invader but you won't see such vitriol for them.

Exactly. We don't see them complain about British Empire but they go nuts over Mughals and Sultanates.

Their real issue is Islamophobia. They use cow and Mughal as excuses to express their Islamophobia.

Anyway, they are digging a big hole for themselves. They are experiencing issues domestically and regionally and I expect it to get worse for them.

 

[sweep_shot]

This is a Pakistani forum. What is your argument ? That Indians(Hindus) don't glorify Marathans ? Not even on Indian forums ?

Besides, there are actual threads here where Indians discussed the 'positive contributions' of Marathan empire. Oh wait indeed.

I have never seen a more entitled group of people before.

They go to non-Indian platforms and try to dictate what can or can't be posted. Very strange behavior.

 

[Vikram1989]

Correct. No one is holding present generation responsible for the actions of their predecessors. In the case of sub continent muslims, those invaders were not even their predecessors as much as they try to fit in..lol but that is another story. However glorifying them today in the year 2025, very well knowing they were barbaric is the issue. No one is asking to erase the history but glorifying those tyrants is the issue.

This is the inscription found on tipu fort walls and any clown taking pride in those kind of lunatics should be condemned.

 

[Greenstorm]

Exactly. We don't see them complain about British Empire but they go nuts over Mughals and Sultanates.

Their real issue is Islamophobia. They use cow and Mughal as excuses to express their Islamophobia.

Anyway, they are digging a big hole for themselves. They are experiencing issues domestically and regionally and I expect it to get worse for them.

Islamophobia, blind nationalism and lack of integrity are symptoms of much deeper issues.

People of this region including Pakistanis (specially East of Indus) are in a civilizational decline for centuries. Pakistanis with youngerr generations are coming into terms with this realization but I don't think that is the case in super power India.

 

[sweep_shot]

Islamophobia, blind nationalism and lack of integrity are symptoms of much deeper issues.

People of this region including Pakistanis (specially East of Indus) are in a civilizational decline for centuries. Pakistanis with youngerr generations are coming into terms with this realization but I don't think that is the case in super power India.

What really astonishes me is their refusal to accept facts they don't like.

I have noticed on PP some of these bhakts simply give haha emojis even when you show them facts. It is why I feel it is pointless to discuss with them certain topics.

 

[Greenstorm]

This is the inscription found on tipu fort walls and any clown taking pride in those kind of lunatics should be condemned.

Another example of selective outrage.

Tipu Sultan-The tiger of Mysore was a product of his time and was in no way particularly vicious for his era. As was the norm, he was harsh with those who resisted and got defeated (including Muslims), whereas he was generally benevolent to those who accepted his rule. He even renovated certain Hindu temples. Its a shame that Indian nations could not stand together with him against British forces.

 

[Greenstorm]

What really astonishes me is their refusal to accept facts they don't like.

I have noticed on PP some of these bhakts simply give haha emojis even when you show them facts. It is why I feel it is pointless to discuss with them certain topics.

That has been my experience as well. Keep in mind that these are educated Indians mostly residing outside of India who we interact with here. Imagine million upon millions of hate filled hindutvadis backed by powerful ruling party and mainstream media. Those are the types we encounter in comment sections on youtube and other social media platforms.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Do you think Indians will be able to rise above this in this century ?

Most probably Yes. Religion is in decline. But nationalism is on the rise. Youth are not much into religion. There is a segment of the society that are getting a bit more radical among both Hindus and Muslims. But overall I feel they are still a minority of them though they are very noisy and vocal.

 

[sweep_shot]

Another example of selective outrage.

Tipu Sultan-The tiger of Mysore was a product of his time and was in no way particularly vicious for his era. As was the norm, he was harsh with those who resisted and got defeated (including Muslims), whereas he was generally benevolent to those who accepted his rule. He even renovated certain Hindu temples. Its a shame that Indian nations could not stand together with him against British forces.

They try to judge medieval empires through the lense of modern times. It doesn't work that way. Norms were different back then.

Then again, can we expect common sense from bhakts? They tend to be blind and unintelligent Islamophobes.

 

[Vikram1989]

Another example of selective outrage.

Tipu Sultan-The tiger of Mysore was a product of his time and was in no way particularly vicious for his era. As was the norm, he was harsh with those who resisted and got defeated (including Muslims), whereas he was generally benevolent to those who accepted his rule. He even renovated certain Hindu temples. Its a shame that Indian nations could not stand together with him against British forces.

What is selective outrage .he himself wrote his objective there . Here is one more master piece asking to convert the dead people from his memoirs.its easily available as a free copy.

 

[Greenstorm]

What is selective outrage .he himself wrote his objective there . Here is one more master piece asking to convert the dead people from his memoirs.its easily available as a free copy.

Selective outrage meaning you care about the memoirs of Tipu but won't address the devastation that Marathans brought upon Bengal (mostly Hindus) in 1740s. Read here for overview.

Scroll

As for Tipu, read these.

Deccanherald

Scroll

Tipu even employed Hindu administrators. History is complicated.

 

[Vikram1989]

Selective outrage meaning you care about the memoirs of Tipu but won't address the devastation that Marathans brought upon Bengal (mostly Hindus) in 1740s. Read here for overview.

Scroll

As for Tipu, read these.

Deccanherald

Scroll

Tipu even employed Hindu administrators. History is complicated.

Hindus and other non believers were thrown out after the 3rd Anglo mysore battle where he was thrown out.I can put more screenshots of that details if u want.marathas have issued apology on behalf of their pindari army(mostly forest tribe to plunder opposition valuables as per mediaval times)for ransacking the temple and sent the compensation immediately. Temple priest went to maratha capital in the next year .Ransacking opponents was common in the mediaval times but doing them in the name of religion is not appreciated ever.

My main point is it's not about marathas or tipu, people should not idolise them in the name of religion and have to respect the others as per modern time standards/rules.After another 20 or 30 years no one may not care who is who.Already people are in very much materialistic mode.

 

[BouncerGuy]

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC... NO PERSOAL STUFF AND TROLLING

 

[Greenstorm]

Hindus and other non believers were thrown out after the 3rd Anglo mysore battle where he was thrown out.I can put more screenshots of that details if u want.marathas have issued apology on behalf of their pindari army(mostly forest tribe to plunder opposition valuables as per mediaval times)for ransacking the temple and sent the compensation immediately. Temple priest went to maratha capital in the next year .Ransacking opponents was common in the mediaval times but doing them in the name of religion is not appreciated ever.

My main point is it's not about marathas or tipu, people should not idolise them in the name of religion and have to respect the others as per modern time standards/rules.After another 20 or 30 years no one may not care who is who.Already people are in very much materialistic mode.

What compensations are you talking about ? Maratha cavalry looted and plundered Bengal Hindus for years slaughtering many hundred thousand of them. How do they compensate for that ?

If your main point is about not idolizing historic figures irrespective of their religion then don't cherry pick only Muslim rulers like Tipu.

 

[Vikram1989]

What compensations are you talking about ? Maratha cavalry looted and plundered Bengal Hindus for years slaughtering many hundred thousand of them. How do they compensate for that ?

If your main point is about not idolizing historic figures irrespective of their religion then don't cherry pick only Muslim rulers like Tipu.

Maratha waged a war for their expansion which is quite normal in mediaval. Muslim kings waged a war to convert.dont change the topic. U r changing the goal posts forever. One more fun fact for u .orders to convert people after war from tipu .

 

[Greenstorm]

Maratha waged a war for their expansion which is quite normal in mediaval. Muslim kings waged a war to convert.dont change the topic. U r changing the goal posts forever. One more fun fact for u .orders to convert people after war from tipu .

So you will just ignore all the slaughter of your fellow Hindus like that. Why does killing hundreds of thousands is 'considered normal in medieval' times but forced conversions is a big issue for you ?

'Muslim Kings waged a war to convert' is such a simplistic narrative. Instances of forced conversions are rare and most Muslim rulers in this region including Aurangzeb and Tipu had Hindu governors, generals and soldiers. Most used religion for political purposes when it suited them just like we see 'ghar wapsi' movement in India.

 

[Vikram1989]

So you will just ignore all the slaughter of your fellow Hindus like that. Why does killing hundreds of thousands is 'considered normal in medieval' times but forced conversions is a big issue for you ?

'Muslim Kings waged a war to convert' is such a simplistic narrative. Instances of forced conversions are rare and most Muslim rulers in this region including Aurangzeb and Tipu had Hindu governors, generals and soldiers. Most used religion for political purposes when it suited them just like we see 'ghar wapsi' movement in India.

They are religious bigots at the end .thatsthe difference. Don't expect any more replies. One more fun fact finally .tipu bhakt saying 10 lakhs were converted

 

[Greenstorm]

They are religious bigots at the end .thatsthe difference. Don't expect any more replies. One more fun fact finally .tipu bhakt saying 10 lakhs were converted

10 lakhs . You can run, I won't chase.

 

[Josh]

It's down right bad and it's also bad of Muslims to idolize someone like Aurangzeb. This is the issue of subcontinent muslims, they are genetically local but their heroes are imported. Iran for one prides itself in its zorastrian past.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Can you imagine current day Germany glorifying and fondly remembering the Nazis? Therein lies the difference. You want to glorify those subhuman invaders of the subcontinent in Pakistan and Bangladesh, fine. Don't expect us in India follow suit.​

You guys are literally glorifying a living butcher and have problem with why some appreciate the good works of Muslim rulers. Obviously none here glorify the killings by Mughals etc...but your leaders deliberately use these rulers to take jibe at Indian Muslims lol...don't you guys claims they aren't even their predecessors but local converts?

 

[sweep_shot]

Every single day, these nutcase bhakts whine and moan about Mughals. Do they not have better things to do?

 

[Bhaijaan]

The kind of hate and blind nationalism I see in India makes me believe that India is going nowhere for the foreseeable future. People in India can observe it more accurately but in civilizational sense, from the outside it seems like India is getting weaker unless they go through a major turnaround.

And you made that conclusion on the basis of what exactly? Omission from Time Magazine's most influential people's list?

 

[Hitman]

You guys are literally glorifying a living butcher and have problem with why some appreciate the good works of Muslim rulers. Obviously none here glorify the killings by Mughals etc...but your leaders deliberately use these rulers to take jibe at Indian Muslims lol...don't you guys claims they aren't even their predecessors but local converts?

Who said so? Pakistanis? The courts have given their verdict. The man has excellent diplomatic relations with rulers of Muslim countries that really matter. Pakistanis can consider him anything they want. Matters zilch to anyone.​

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Who said so? Pakistanis? The courts have given their verdict. The man has excellent diplomatic relations with rulers of Muslim countries that really matter. Pakistanis can consider him anything they want. Matters zilch to anyone.​

Oh so Netanyahu is also a saint as NO COURT has yet declared him guilty of genocide and massacres...well all persons with conscious give a zilch to such arguments tbh

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Most probably Yes. Religion is in decline. But nationalism is on the rise. Youth are not much into religion. There is a segment of the society that are getting a bit more radical among both Hindus and Muslims. But overall I feel they are still a minority of them though they are very noisy and vocal.

If religion is in decline, then why is it that the most popular govt in decades is a party dedicated to the Hindu religion?

 

[Champ_Pal]

If religion is in decline, then why is it that the most popular govt in decades is a party dedicated to the Hindu religion?

BJP is about Hindutva ideology. Not Hinduism as a religion. Its all about putting India, its heroes and Dharmic culture first before anything. We can argue about the nitty gritty of the Hindutva vs Hinduism. Ram, Krishna are men who actually walked on the land of modern day India. Nothing wrong in saying they are great or Hail to them. Even a a Muslim, there is nothing wrong in honoring them as great men. They do not have to worship them. But saying Jai Shriram or Jai ShreeKrishana should be okay. It does not mean they worship them. Those who believe in Ram and Krishna as incarnations of God Vishnu can pray to them. Others can simply treat them as mere men.

If it was about modern Hinduism as a religion alone, then Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs will be excluded. But Hindutva is about respecting all these Indian schools of thoughts and paths set by great men and philosophers of their times. Most modern Hindus will not hesitate to bow down to Nanak Ji or Buddha or Mahavira. They are all great teachers addressing the evils of their times. Hindutva tries to unite all these folds into one front.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

BJP is about Hindutva ideology. Not Hinduism as a religion. Its all about putting India, its heroes and Dharmic culture first before anything. We can argue about the nitty gritty of the Hindutva vs Hinduism. Ram, Krishna are men who actually walked on the land of modern day India. Nothing wrong in saying they are great or Hail to them. Even a a Muslim, there is nothing wrong in honoring them as great men. They do not have to worship them. But saying Jai Shriram or Jai ShreeKrishana should be okay. It does not mean they worship them. Those who believe in Ram and Krishna as incarnations of God Vishnu can pray to them. Others can simply treat them as mere men.

If it was about modern Hinduism as a religion alone, then Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs will be excluded. But Hindutva is about respecting all these Indian schools of thoughts and paths set by great men and philosophers of their times. Most modern Hindus will not hesitate to bow down to Nanak Ji or Buddha or Mahavira. They are all great teachers addressing the evils of their times. Hindutva tries to unite all these folds into one front.

Why does Hindutva try to unite all these folds under one front? Hindutva suggests they are merely subsets of Hinduism rather than religions in their own right. Hindutva is an attempt to stamp only one religious identity as the ultimate, and that is Hinduism. You can claim it is nationalism, but then there would be no need for Hindutva, you could be perfectly patriotic as an Indian without any reference to Hinduism.

 

[HalBass9]

BJP is about Hindutva ideology. Not Hinduism as a religion. Its all about putting India, its heroes and Dharmic culture first before anything. We can argue about the nitty gritty of the Hindutva vs Hinduism. Ram, Krishna are men who actually walked on the land of modern day India. Nothing wrong in saying they are great or Hail to them. Even a a Muslim, there is nothing wrong in honoring them as great men. They do not have to worship them. But saying Jai Shriram or Jai ShreeKrishana should be okay. It does not mean they worship them. Those who believe in Ram and Krishna as incarnations of God Vishnu can pray to them. Others can simply treat them as mere men.

If it was about modern Hinduism as a religion alone, then Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs will be excluded. But Hindutva is about respecting all these Indian schools of thoughts and paths set by great men and philosophers of their times. Most modern Hindus will not hesitate to bow down to Nanak Ji or Buddha or Mahavira. They are all great teachers addressing the evils of their times. Hindutva tries to unite all these folds into one front.

LOL,

Which department of the WhatsApp University cooked up the gem that “BJP is about Hindutva, not Hinduism”?

And while we're at it, why is someone who claims to be an atheist parroting religious nationalism like gospel? Pick a lane. You can’t reject gods and still worship political ones.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

LOL,

Which department of the WhatsApp University cooked up the gem that “BJP is about Hindutva, not Hinduism”?

And while we're at it, why is someone who claims to be an atheist parroting religious nationalism like gospel? Pick a lane. You can’t reject gods and still worship political ones.

His alleged atheism is the worst kind. If it was genuine there would be no need to reinvent Hinduism as culture...which is itself obviously not good enough otherwise he would have stayed in Hindustan rather than pack his bags for the USA.

 

[JaDed]

No it doesn’t, and that’s why Politically religion should be given up as well, anything with historical faith doesn’t make logical sense politically. Keeping it private helps everyone.

China is showing the world what could be achiever by taking pride in good aspects of older culture and believing in science.

 

[JaDed]

Isn’t there a Mughal Appreciation thread ?
Why care about religion and history and take pride there, it should just be FYI and then move on saying all religious empires and Kings are bigots including current ones.(Included Zionists).