Is Pakistan the greatest cricket nation ever?

[Bhaijaan]

Bhaijaan thinks so and this is why :-

* Independent Pakistan had to build from scratch in 1947 and it didn't take them long to establish themselves as a respectable cricket playing nation.
* Pakistan is the only nation other than the founding 2 nations (Eng-Aus) to have never been a minnow. They were a quality team even before they became one of the best.
* Pakistan had the most spectacular rise of cricket action. Under Imran Khan Pakistan transformed from a good team to a superpower in cricket. They leapfrogged to dominate world cricket in the 1990s.
* They are the most resilient Cricket nation ever. Despite their financial issues, security concerns, political issues they still manage to not only stay competitive but smash any team that comes their way in big matches/big tournaments.
* During their so called worst phase they still managed to win 2 ICC trophies and reached semis and finals many times.
* Pakistani cricketers have revolutionized the game. Pakistanis aren't rich to look after their players from their young age like Aussies, English, South Africas would and yet they have produced players which have no equal in world cricket. Imran - There is no equal for Imran. Wasim - No one has ever been like Wasim. Waqar, Shoaib Akhtar, Afridi you name it. Mohd Yousuf set a record no one is ever goign to touch. Batting or bowling, Pakistani feats in cricket have been epic.




Yes you can say Australia won a lot of world cups, West Indies ruled the game like no one else back in the day but where is West Indies since last 20 years or so? Mediocre and they have no future. Australia, just take into account the investment they make into their players. The first world facilities to their kids right from birth.

Compare this to Pakistan whose very soil bleeds cricket. Even Afghanistanis like Rashid Khan who grew up in refugee camps in Pakistan
have gone on to become mega stars and are ruling the game.

They come up with PSL despite all ods outside their nation and it is already 2nd or 3rd best T20 league.

Pakistan is a special nation, even more so wrt Cricket.

They remain in India's shadow only in terms of population and money but despite all the hurdles put in their way they manage to come back strong and smash teams to pieces.

Everyone knows here i judge players and people not just based on statistics but based on what they achieve relative to their status.

In terms of the resources that Pakistan has access to, they punch well above their weight and more than anyone else.

I salute this great nation.

 

[Rahul1]

If they were not ranked 7th in tests and 6th in Odis I might have agreed.

 

[Syed1]

If they were not ranked 7th in tests and 6th in Odis I might have agreed.

We are ranked 5th in ODIs while India are ranked 2nd. I'd suggest you lose your arrogance.

 

[ManFan]

I would put them just behind Australia.

They have given the game more drama, innovation, and controversy than other teams.

Also, they have been competitive since time and memorial.

 

[troodon]

Pakistan is the greatest cricket nation ever.





(When nobody expects anything from them)

 

[BaankeJi]

The title is subjective but I agree that they are the most resilient.

 

[Rahul1]

We are ranked 5th in ODIs while India are ranked 2nd. I'd suggest you lose your arrogance.

We all saw the the result of arrogance just a few hours ago.

 

[Syed1]

We all saw the the result of arrogance just a few hours ago.

Yeah India has never lost a match in their history




Also incase you failed to notice the match was in T20 format funny you didn't mention Pakistan's T20 ranking

 

[Ab Fan]

Afridi you name it.....

This is where the plot changed and it looks like a troll thread.

 

[kuskash]

Why even start this kind of threads?

 

[Brodipet_baadshah]

So Afridi is the player who got no equal in world cricket?

 

[Sirris]

Entertainment wise yes but ability wise as a team, no way.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pound for pound , it's hard to disagree.

The special aspect of Pakistan cricket is, no matter how bad their circumstances are or how poor the team is they can beat anyone on any given day and can win a world trophy.

If Pakistan had the rescources and organisation of Ind,Aus or Eng, they would dominate the game.

 

[Mamoon]

Behind Australia, West Indies, India, South Africa and England due to multiple reasons and factors.

 

[Sidilicious]

My ranking of tests side over history is

1. Australia - Consistently been the top 3 sides in the modern era. Only been out of top 3 for short periods
2. South Africa - Same as Aus, but below them due to being absent during apartheid
3. WI - Great 70s - 90s, but slipping now. Will slip further if they dont improve soon
4. Pakistan - Best asian team. But also been slipping. The gap to India was much higher, but India is catching up. Would have been higher up had they been ranked 1 consistently over a good period of time.
5. England - Been average.
6. India - Good in the 70s, but have only picked up in the last 10 years. Get some additional points for being ranked 1 more than SA and Pak. Not too far from Pak and Eng.
7. NZ
8. SL

My ODI rankings are based significantly on WCs and bit on other ICC tourneys and then
1. Australia - 5 Wcs
2. India - 2 WCs. Been the second most consistent team in WCs and ICC tourneys
3. WI - Winning 2 WCs helps, but slipping because of not having made a WC semi since 1996. Pak or SL make it to another final, and they will be ahead of WI
4. Pakistan - Were one of the most consistent teams till 99 WC. But have slipped. Pakistan also edged out SL due to the recent Champions trophy
5. SL
6. SA
7. NZ
8. Eng

So my overall ranking are (I value tests slightly more than ODI)
1. Aus
2. WI
3. Pak
4. SA
5. India
6. Eng
7. SL
8. NZ

 

[BaankeJi]

My ranking of tests side over history is

1. Australia - Consistently been the top 3 sides in the modern era. Only been out of top 3 for short periods
2. South Africa - Same as Aus, but below them due to being absent during apartheid
3. WI - Great 70s - 90s, but slipping now. Will slip further if they dont improve soon
4. Pakistan - Best asian team. But also been slipping. The gap to India was much higher, but India is catching up. Would have been higher up had they been ranked 1 consistently over a good period of time.
5. England - Been average.
6. India - Good in the 70s, but have only picked up in the last 10 years. Get some additional points for being ranked 1 more than SA and Pak. Not too far from Pak and Eng.
7. NZ
8. SL

My ODI rankings are based significantly on WCs and bit on other ICC tourneys and then
1. Australia - 5 Wcs
2. India - 2 WCs. Been the second most consistent team in WCs and ICC tourneys
3. WI - Winning 2 WCs helps, but slipping because of not having made a WC semi since 1996. Pak or SL make it to another final, and they will be ahead of WI
4. Pakistan - Were one of the most consistent teams till 99 WC. But have slipped. Pakistan also edged out SL due to the recent Champions trophy
5. SL
6. SA
7. NZ
8. Eng

So my overall ranking are (I value tests slightly more than ODI)
1. Aus
2. WI
3. Pak
4. SA
5. India
6. Eng
7. SL
8. NZ

In Tests, India started improving since advent of 2000's. They won against mighty Aussies at home(2001) and equalized(2004) away. Won against Pakistan(2004) and England(2007) away.

 

[FreePalestine]

Although I am not a fan of all the changes, Pak team has been pioneering how to bowl in increasingly batting friendly cricket while many teams are losing themselves in slower ball variation, Pak still know how to use yorkers, and bowl more intelligent slower balls, and are still able to find reverse sometimes, despite two new balls! Always innovative, top bowling nation with some batting greats as well.

 

[enkidu_]

Countries have different history and dynamics and you can't give overall assessment, but the "early Pakistan" was indeed quite amazing : think of it, it was only about some middle class Lahoris/Karachiites (a very limited pool of human capital, in a newly founded country with all its disorders), and as you said, they had an amazing start, thanks to early pioneers like Fazal Mahmood in bowling/Hanif Mohammad in batting.

But over the years I don't think they have capitalized on the talent, which might have to do with the economic stagnation (no "middle class culture" = no sport). The "Imran Khan years" were a bit of an accidental extravagance, due to the personal magnetism and ingenuity of the man himself (the country's best ever fast bowler he spotted, Wasim Akram, was included into the squad without playing a first-class game) but after you mainly have a team which/players who could have achieved more.

India is now reaping the benefits of its "economic decentralization" - it has changed its tune when its team has stopped being monopolized by Brahmins (a trend which has been unleashed by one of them, , and favoring all types of middle class from tons of urban centers. It has also changed the nature of their game, best typified by Kohli nowadays, and its "middle class thrive to succeed against all odds".

In Pak the same movement was being set up with Waqar Younis (again under Imran Khan), but since then you feel it has become fossilized because of structural and systemic incompetency/corruption/overall condition of the country (no subsantial GDP/capita rise = no middle class and "middle class culture" = no sportsmen, might sound simplistic but that's how it is).

 

[moghul]

Not really.

 

[Sadevdesai]

Frogs in the well think, the well is entire Universe !!!!!!!

 

[blackanhyellow]

Well if you give it a lot of context as the OP did then yes.

Its true Pakistan cricket has had a lot more hurdles than other nations.

But in that context Afghanistan may be the greatest cricketing nation.

Think about all they have accomplished in so little time with so little resources. I am guessing most of their team were refugees in Pakistan not too long ago. Look at them now.

However, in the larger scope of things I dont think any nation has been greater than Australians. They have won 5 world cups, produced the second greatest playing XI (first being windies), produced ATG batsmen, fast bowlers, and a leg spin bowler matched by no other. The best part is, they remain competitive even today and have not been relegated to bottom tier like the windies.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

In tests
Aus
Sa
Wi
Eng
Pak
Ind
Nz
Sl
In odis
Aus
Ind
Wi
Pak
Sl
Sa
Nz
Eng

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pound for pound , it's hard to disagree.

The special aspect of Pakistan cricket is, no matter how bad their circumstances are or how poor the team is they can beat anyone on any given day and can win a world trophy.

If Pakistan had the rescources and organisation of Ind,Aus or Eng, they would dominate the game.

Exactly what was in my mind as I made this thread. Given the context and all hurdles Pakistan has faced as a nation and a cricket team their achievements are far greater than any other nation over a long period of time and given everything that’s Pakistan means to world cricket it’s not a big statement to call them the greatest cricket nation ever. No country brings the same passion to the game that Pakistan does.


A brother mentioned Afghanistan. They have done great but they still need to achieve things in the teal tournaments and in the real format of cricket.

Pakistan is already even as per numbers the 3rd greatest cricket nation ever.

Looking beyond numbers they aste clearly the greatest.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Behind Australia, West Indies, India, South Africa and England due to multiple reasons and factors.

How is India a greater cricket nation than Pakistan ?

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Behind Australia, West Indies, India, South Africa and England due to multiple reasons and factors.

Behind Zimbabwe, Kenya, Netherlands and some other nations as well

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Surpassing eng and aus?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

The only way by which a nation can become the greatest ever is by performance and producing atgs. Pak is no where near australia and windies in that measure and to say pakistan is better than aus is insane.

 

[Mamoon]

How is India a greater cricket nation than Pakistan ?

In the modern era, India has left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

They have more World Cups, they have produced the biggest superstar of the game who is arguably the greatest ever player in his position, holding more records than any player (Tendulkar), they have also produced the best Limited Overs captain of all time, and a player who is likely to end up as the greatest ODI cricketer ever.

They have also spent more time at the top of the Test rankings, and have enjoyed a fierce rivalry with Australia over the last 20 years.

Indian cricket has become a much bigger brand than Pakistan cricket, and they have transformed the landscape of cricket with the revolutionary IPL, which has firmly established India as the powerhouse of cricket with other teams trying to catch up by imitating them.

Up until the 1990s, Pakistan had the upper hand. However, in spite of their superiority both teams had the same number of World Cups to show for, although Pakistan were much better in Tests.

Nonetheless, India have produced far better cricketers in the last 25 years and have been the better team across formats. They have surpassed Pakistan as the Asian cricket superpower.

 

[Ab Fan]

The order IMO is:-

Aus
WI
Eng
SA
Ind
Pak

This is taking overall. SA and India is a close call but I pick SA because they were a very strong team in 70s as well but due to apartheid couldn't showcase their skills all over the world.

However, SA is the only team who is consistenly producing world-class batsmen as well as 150 Kph clocking great fast bowlers.

 

[dani2k]

Counter view..

Pakistan also had the advantage of being a minnow in another name - INDIA. They didn't have to suffer birth pangs as some other teams because their domestic set up had already been established and only had to be renamed and brought under a different administration.

The talent pool was also there albeit the primary skill set had to undergo a change (presumably) from being batting first to bowling first. But each international team has its unique strengths and that added up to the diversity of the world game..

However, Imran Khan's arrival could be looked up both ways - he was undoubtedly a champion leader who took his team to great heights spotting talent impromptu. But where he lacked is that he did not wield his power to put down systems in place (with the power he had, he could have put that in place ) that could have brought consistent results. Sadly that was not to be, and Pakistan remain mercurial as they were decades ago.

Whether you want that to remain so is something of an individual choice but as for me if I am a Pakistan fan I would think about what could have been instead of what is now. Feel free to disagree though..

 

[Bhaijaan]

In the modern era, India has left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

They have more World Cups, they have produced the biggest superstar of the game who is arguably the greatest ever player in his position, holding more records than any player (Tendulkar), they have also produced the best Limited Overs captain of all time, and a player who is likely to end up as the greatest ODI cricketer ever.

They have also spent more time at the top of the Test rankings, and have enjoyed a fierce rivalry with Australia over the last 20 years.

Indian cricket has become a much bigger brand than Pakistan cricket, and they have transformed the landscape of cricket with the revolutionary IPL, which has firmly established India as the powerhouse of cricket with other teams trying to catch up by imitating them.

Up until the 1990s, Pakistan had the upper hand. However, in spite of their superiority both teams had the same number of World Cups to show for, although Pakistan were much better in Tests.

Nonetheless, India have produced far better cricketers in the last 25 years and have been the better team across formats. They have surpassed Pakistan as the Asian cricket superpower.

Talking about feats :-

1. Fastest ball ever delivered
2. Fastest test and odi centuries at the time
3. Most runs in a calendar year
Greatest left arm pacer
Greatest all rounder ever
Greatest captain ever
Greatest legal off spinner ever

Highest ODI score for a decade - 194

Inventors of reverse swing

Inventors of doosra.

 

[kuskash]

Talking about feats :-

1. Fastest ball ever delivered
2. Fastest test and odi centuries at the time
3. Most runs in a calendar year
Greatest left arm pacer
Greatest all rounder ever
Greatest captain ever
Greatest legal off spinner ever

Highest ODI score for a decade - 194

Inventors of reverse swing

Inventors of doosra.

Other countries have not done anything.

 

[Buffet]

Most talented for sure.

 

[the Great Khan]

After what happened to us in the 2008, yes..we are now..no country would have survived the trauma of the last decade but Pakistan has. And in that time won to major ICC trophies and have been to nearly every semi final..They actually won four trophies if we include the asia cup and that other tournament in bangladesh..also no.1 test side mace and now the no.1 T20 side too..This from a nation that has been effectively boycotted and sanctioned..no other nation could have done it..

so yes pound for pound the greatest cricketing nation..ever.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Behind Australia, WI, and India

 

[Rahul1]

After what happened to us in the 2008, yes..we are now..no country would have survived the trauma of the last decade but Pakistan has. And in that time won to major ICC trophies and have been to nearly every semi final..They actually won four trophies if we include the asia cup and that other tournament in bangladesh..also no.1 test side mace and now the no.1 T20 side too..This from a nation that has been effectively boycotted and sanctioned..no other nation could have done it..

so yes pound for pound the greatest cricketing nation..ever.

Can you back up these statements?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Talking about feats :-

1. Fastest ball ever delivered
2. Fastest test and odi centuries at the time
3. Most runs in a calendar year
Greatest left arm pacer
Greatest all rounder ever
Greatest captain ever
Greatest legal off spinner ever

Highest ODI score for a decade - 194

Inventors of reverse swing

Inventors of doosra.

Greatest all rounder - gary sobers
Greatest captain-ricky ponting, allan border(it's debatable ).
Fastest odi and test centuries AT A TIME is no record. A broken record is no longer a record.
Each of the top 8 countries can boast about several records like these.

 

[Bhaijaan]

After what happened to us in the 2008, yes..we are now..no country would have survived the trauma of the last decade but Pakistan has. And in that time won to major ICC trophies and have been to nearly every semi final..They actually won four trophies if we include the asia cup and that other tournament in bangladesh..also no.1 test side mace and now the no.1 T20 side too..This from a nation that has been effectively boycotted and sanctioned..no other nation could have done it..

so yes pound for pound the greatest cricketing nation..ever.

Summed up my feelings perfectly TGK.

It is sad however if someone like me says it, people will say it’s either an attempt to please my Pakistani friends or they would question my patriotism. Some even hinted at it being a trolling attempt.

Sad when people don’t see things in context.

Pound for Pound Pakistan has been the best cricket nation by far and I don’t know why does this make India look bad. India’s been a great cricket nation too in its own ways. All major nations have something to celebrate at the end of the day but it’s not a big deal to acknowledge Pakistan here:

 

[Gilly]

After what happened to us in the 2008, yes..we are now..no country would have survived the trauma of the last decade but Pakistan has. And in that time won to major ICC trophies and have been to nearly every semi final..They actually won four trophies if we include the asia cup and that other tournament in bangladesh..also no.1 test side mace and now the no.1 T20 side too..This from a nation that has been effectively boycotted and sanctioned..no other nation could have done it..

so yes pound for pound the greatest cricketing nation..ever.

South Africa have survived with bigger setbacks than Pakistan, shunned by world cricket, Cronje being banned, Quotas and other setbacks but they still produce better teams than Pakistan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The hate and jealousy some people (overwhelmingly Indians) have for Pakistan is incredible.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

The hate and jealousy some people (overwhelmingly Indians) have for Pakistan is incredible.

Bhaijaan it's not hate even pakistanis won't agree on them being the greatest team ever.
If you'd have said that pakistani players possess more nature flair and talent than other teams then many would've agreed.

 

[Tyler Durden]

The hate and jealousy some people (overwhelmingly Indians) have for Pakistan is incredible.

Lol! Just because you created this thread and people are countering your views, doesn't mean Indians are jealous! You presented only your delusional views but the fact is India is a in fact a greater cricketing nation than Pak and it would take a gazillion years for you to digest this fact because you are still living in your imaginary world.

 

[Ab Fan]

South Africa have survived with bigger setbacks than Pakistan, shunned by world cricket, Cronje being banned, Quotas and other setbacks but they still produce better teams than Pakistan.

Nicely put up.

The best cricketing nation has to be Australia. Just look at the way how harsh punishment they gave to their two top players for tampering with the ball to ensure the pride and dignity of Australian cricket. <B>Would Pakistan or any team would have ever done that?</B>Heck, we have Amir playing international cricket who was involved in the match-fixing saga.

5 WCs and a generation of test dominance. They are by far the greatest cricketing nation the world has ever seen. There is literally not anyone an equivalent of it and no-one in recent times is gonna surpass them as well.

 

[Brodipet_baadshah]

Talking about feats :-

1. Fastest ball ever delivered
2. Fastest test and odi centuries at the time
3. Most runs in a calendar year
Greatest left arm pacer
Greatest all rounder ever
Greatest captain ever
Greatest legal off spinner ever

Highest ODI score for a decade - 194

Inventors of reverse swing

Inventors of doosra.

Who is that greatest alrounder produced by Pak?

 

[TM Riddle]

Entertaining for sure.

 

[MenInG]

The hate and jealousy some people (overwhelmingly Indians) have for Pakistan is incredible.

and inane love as well

 

[kuskash]

The hate and jealousy some people (overwhelmingly Indians) have for Pakistan is incredible.

You are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is, keep it up!!!

 

[the Great Khan]

South Africa have survived with bigger setbacks than Pakistan, shunned by world cricket, Cronje being banned, Quotas and other setbacks but they still produce better teams than Pakistan.

How many ICC trophies have South africa won? also south africa's economy was better than ours and weren't fighting a war that claimed the lives of thousands of pakistani's. The domestic structure was better than ours too. The problem as always is that your prejudice doesnt allow you to understand the impact your WOT has had on every man woman and child in Pakistan..

Ill see how your country would react if your getting bombed every day, losing hundreds of people in schools mosques and cafes, your cricket team cant play at home in front of your home crowds and your so called "friends" decide to boycott you..

Try playing an ashes test in Malaysia..and then travelling all over for your games..your pampered players wouldnt last a year..they couldnt even hack karachi in 1994 when warne had to bring his baked beans with him..

 

[ManFan]

How many ICC trophies have South africa won? also south africa's economy was better than ours and weren't fighting a war that claimed the lives of thousands of pakistani's. The domestic structure was better than ours too. The problem as always is that your prejudice doesnt allow you to understand the impact your WOT has had on every man woman and child in Pakistan..

Ill see how your country would react if your getting bombed every day, losing hundreds of people in schools mosques and cafes, your cricket team cant play at home in front of your home crowds and your so called "friends" decide to boycott you..

Try playing an ashes test in Malaysia..and then travelling all over for your games..your pampered players wouldnt last a year..they couldnt even hack karachi in 1994 when warne had to bring his baked beans with him..

Also, South Africa had the finances and influence to still be able to recruit world-class players like Croft and Gooch amongst others on the infamous "rebel tours". So, they were never really ostracized from world cricket.

Cronje was banned. Yeah, try having the captain and your two main fast bowlers along with premier spinners being banned also.

Also, quotas are not as extreme a setback as people are trying to make them out to be. Philander, Rabada, Ngidi, along with the batsman (Bevuma?) are all results of the quotas being pushed.

Pakistan has suffered more than any other cricket nation combined in the last decade.

 

[Sirris]

How can you guys rank WI before Pak if we are looking at the overall history especially keeping the modern era in mind?

 

[Adijazz1706]

It's clearly Australia, the rest are fighting for 2nd place

 

[Hasan123]

Got to be Australia.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Also, South Africa had the finances and influence to still be able to recruit world-class players like Croft and Gooch amongst others on the infamous "rebel tours". So, they were never really ostracized from world cricket.

Cronje was banned. Yeah, try having the captain and your two main fast bowlers along with premier spinners being banned also.

Also, quotas are not as extreme a setback as people are trying to make them out to be. Philander, Rabada, Ngidi, along with the batsman (Bevuma?) are all results of the quotas being pushed.

Pakistan has suffered more than any other cricket nation combined in the last decade.

South Africa had good infrastructure and a stable domestic set up to grow. Still just 1 trophy.

Pakistan despite all odds has a cabinet full of silverware.

 

[the Great Khan]

Also, South Africa had the finances and influence to still be able to recruit world-class players like Croft and Gooch amongst others on the infamous "rebel tours". So, they were never really ostracized from world cricket.

Cronje was banned. Yeah, try having the captain and your two main fast bowlers along with premier spinners being banned also.

Also, quotas are not as extreme a setback as people are trying to make them out to be. Philander, Rabada, Ngidi, along with the batsman (Bevuma?) are all results of the quotas being pushed.

Pakistan has suffered more than any other cricket nation combined in the last decade.

Exactly..lets look at a parallel universe. Lets take England. The IRA suddenly bomb Lords and some of the aussie team are injured during the ashes. People are also injured. There is a full on terrorist bombing campaign from inverness all the way to cornwall. A small town in cornwall suffers when a sunday chruch service is bombed by an IRA splinter group.

The football league suffers when the fa cup final and other games are attacked by masked gunmen who drive a truck into the gates, running over civilians and then shooting at anything that moves. The tory conference is bombed (this actually happened by the way) and labour mps are killed while campainging in the local elections.

The IRA then take over large swathes of Northern ireland and some parts of the Highlands.

The ICC call an emergency meeting becasue the aussies abandon their tour and vow not to play in england until the issues are sorted out. Pakistan and India cancel their tours and the world cup is shifted to another venue.

In the interest of helping England, the nedtherlands agrees to allow england to play its home series in amsterdam. overseas county players refuse to come and play..crowds dwindle..

The england cricket team travel the world in hotels..we get a massive expose in the telegraph where Michael atherton expalins how he misses his family and is suffering from cabin fever and travel fatigue..

How many trophies do you think england would win??

 

[Bhaijaan]

In the interest of helping England, the nedtherlands agrees to allow england to play its home series in amsterdam. overseas county players refuse to come and play..crowds dwindle..

The england cricket team travel the world in hotels..we get a massive expose in the telegraph where Michael atherton expalins how he misses his family and is suffering from cabin fever and travel fatigue..

How many trophies do you think england would win??

Ironically England doesnt win any trophies despite having it all.

It pains me to see many people giving respect where it's due. Not a big deal but i guess not all have a pure soul and a big heart.

 

[Rahul1]

Exactly..lets look at a parallel universe. Lets take England. The IRA suddenly bomb Lords and some of the aussie team are injured during the ashes. People are also injured. There is a full on terrorist bombing campaign from inverness all the way to cornwall. A small town in cornwall suffers when a sunday chruch service is bombed by an IRA splinter group.

The football league suffers when the fa cup final and other games are attacked by masked gunmen who drive a truck into the gates, running over civilians and then shooting at anything that moves. The tory conference is bombed (this actually happened by the way) and labour mps are killed while campainging in the local elections.

The IRA then take over large swathes of Northern ireland and some parts of the Highlands.

The ICC call an emergency meeting becasue the aussies abandon their tour and vow not to play in england until the issues are sorted out. Pakistan and India cancel their tours and the world cup is shifted to another venue.

In the interest of helping England, the nedtherlands agrees to allow england to play its home series in amsterdam. overseas county players refuse to come and play..crowds dwindle..

The england cricket team travel the world in hotels..we get a massive expose in the telegraph where Michael atherton expalins how he misses his family and is suffering from cabin fever and travel fatigue..

How many trophies do you think england would win??

Not sure about the last line but I'm sure that England fans won't be whining as much as you are in this thread.

 

[big_gamer007]

Exactly..lets look at a parallel universe. Lets take England. The IRA suddenly bomb Lords and some of the aussie team are injured during the ashes. People are also injured. There is a full on terrorist bombing campaign from inverness all the way to cornwall. A small town in cornwall suffers when a sunday chruch service is bombed by an IRA splinter group.

The football league suffers when the fa cup final and other games are attacked by masked gunmen who drive a truck into the gates, running over civilians and then shooting at anything that moves. The tory conference is bombed (this actually happened by the way) and labour mps are killed while campainging in the local elections.

The IRA then take over large swathes of Northern ireland and some parts of the Highlands.

The ICC call an emergency meeting becasue the aussies abandon their tour and vow not to play in england until the issues are sorted out. Pakistan and India cancel their tours and the world cup is shifted to another venue.

In the interest of helping England, the nedtherlands agrees to allow england to play its home series in amsterdam. overseas county players refuse to come and play..crowds dwindle..

The england cricket team travel the world in hotels..we get a massive expose in the telegraph where Michael atherton expalins how he misses his family and is suffering from cabin fever and travel fatigue..

How many trophies do you think england would win??

England do not need all this to happen to not win trophies.. They can’t win many trophies still in normal universe.

 

[the Great Khan]

England do not need all this to happen to not win trophies.. They can’t win many trophies still in normal universe.

Not exactly the point but winning a series is also a trophy in a sense. How many series and wins do you think they would be able to manage? A mere idiotic rant from our former stupid chairman had them flailing around like rabbits..what do you think they would do if they faced half of what Pakistan have to?

and for all the praise the aussies get, they have certain natural advantages that other countrys dont have..if you take those away, how do you think they would fare?

 

[big_gamer007]

Not exactly the point but winning a series is also a trophy in a sense. How many series and wins do you think they would be able to manage? A mere idiotic rant from our former stupid chairman had them flailing around like rabbits..what do you think they would do if they faced half of what Pakistan have to?

and for all the praise the aussies get, they have certain natural advantages that other countrys dont have..if you take those away, how do you think they would fare?

Every country has their pros and cons.. We are going on a hypothetical world but Check England’s population compared to pakistan and then see how many people actually play cricket in England where football isn’t easily the biggest sports and other sports are also popular..

Whereas in Pakistan only cricket is popular.

England do have better infra and they are a developed nation where sports are given importance from a young age unlike our part of the world.. Eventually it balances out like India have balanced it out..

Just need Pakistan to our act together sort out their country and invest in cricket and in 15 years from now you will see consistent results.

Btw what natural advantage do Australia have?

 

[KingKhanWC]

In the modern era, India has left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

They have more World Cups, they have produced the biggest superstar of the game who is arguably the greatest ever player in his position, holding more records than any player (Tendulkar), they have also produced the best Limited Overs captain of all time, and a player who is likely to end up as the greatest ODI cricketer ever.

They have also spent more time at the top of the Test rankings, and have enjoyed a fierce rivalry with Australia over the last 20 years.

Indian cricket has become a much bigger brand than Pakistan cricket, and they have transformed the landscape of cricket with the revolutionary IPL, which has firmly established India as the powerhouse of cricket with other teams trying to catch up by imitating them.

Up until the 1990s, Pakistan had the upper hand. However, in spite of their superiority both teams had the same number of World Cups to show for, although Pakistan were much better in Tests.

Nonetheless, India have produced far better cricketers in the last 25 years and have been the better team across formats. They have surpassed Pakistan as the Asian cricket superpower.

Yet they suffered the biggest loss ever in a major final 12 months ago?

For India's population, money in cricket, the obbession, Bollywood circus hype they should be dominating the game not being taken to the cleaners in a final and getting hammered away from home. India's no.1 test ranking is only due to them winning at home on rank turners, nothing more than a one trick pony.

You talk of a great player, I assume it's Kohli? Sure he's very good but there have been dozens of better test cricketers than him and he isn't even the best in the world, never has been in the most testing format.

Still yet to produce a genuine fast bowler.

Pound for pound India ranks very low, I would put Afghansitan's success with context higher than what India has achieved.

You will argue for India as you love the team and country more than Pakistan but please make some sensible arguments.

 

[moghul]

Australia , England and WI are ahead of Pakistan . SA, India and others come after.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I think West Indies because they have produced maximum ATGs and have a very small population, besides far from first world standards. Their all time XI will demolish the combined all time XI of other teams more often than not, that is domination.

From Asia I'll pick Sri Lanka, which not only has such a tiny population but was also consumed in civil war for many decades. Besides they picked up cricket late but still won a World Cup in 1996 in dominating fashion.

My overall ranking:

West Indies
Australia
Sri Lanka
Pakistan
New Zealand
South Africa
England
India
Bangladesh

I expect India to move up the rankings and Sri Lanka down if things progress the way they are currently. However Pakistan have done very well indeed.

 

[the Great Khan]

Every country has their pros and cons.. We are going on a hypothetical world but Check England’s population compared to pakistan and then see how many people actually play cricket in England where football isn’t easily the biggest sports and other sports are also popular..

Whereas in Pakistan only cricket is popular.

England do have better infra and they are a developed nation where sports are given importance from a young age unlike our part of the world.. Eventually it balances out like India have balanced it out..

Just need Pakistan to our act together sort out their country and invest in cricket and in 15 years from now you will see consistent results.

Btw what natural advantage do Australia have?

The Australians have a good summer every year, the population is concentrated around the coasts and is relatively small hence the economy is pretty good. Also The outdoor culture is a very important part of australian life and good weather helps them..

 

[the Great Khan]

Every country has their pros and cons.. We are going on a hypothetical world but Check England’s population compared to pakistan and then see how many people actually play cricket in England where football isn’t easily the biggest sports and other sports are also popular..

Whereas in Pakistan only cricket is popular.

England do have better infra and they are a developed nation where sports are given importance from a young age unlike our part of the world.. Eventually it balances out like India have balanced it out..

Just need Pakistan to our act together sort out their country and invest in cricket and in 15 years from now you will see consistent results.

Btw what natural advantage do Australia have?

The example is quite relevant because many of the things have actually happened. For example the IRA did launch a massive bombing campaign in the uk. They nearly killed the PM and her whole cabinet. They attacked the royal family and destroyed the centre of Manchester. But nothing stopped. Everyone kept calm and carried on. Messages of support were sent from all ver the world and fellow allied countrys vowed never to let the terrorists win by stopping sporting contacts citing safety..

But in pakistan we recieved no support, only boycotts and villification because thats what they wanted. The powers that be wanted to destroy the country but failed and were left bewildered. You can sometimes hear it in the voices of the commentators (im not saying they were the ones who were left bewildered lol), the shock and awe when such a resiliant bunch of cricketers keep winning trophies!!

The resilience and never say die attitude, and ultimately success in the face of disaster makes Pakistan the greatest cricketing nation on the planet..

 

[enkidu_]

The population argument has a limit, you should look at the middle class population more if anything : you can have 200 millions peoples, but if there are some odd 20 millions genuine middle class (I say genuine in terms of "economically secure/socially liberal", because for some Third World statisticians not being hungry is being middle class), then it will have a more moderate talent pool as compared to a 60 millions population but with, let's say, 30 millions middle class peoples (and a nation like the UK has actually more).

It's the middle class culture which gives you athletes (and artists/scientists), you can have a pop of 1 billion but if only 1% is middle class then it's perhaps even less potential athletes than a tiny Western country like Belgium (I'm caricaturing for the sake of the argument, but you get it). Add to that the whole infrastructure at grassroots level argument.

A better measure to compare would be to see how many cricketers there are in the FC system of these countries, I'm not sure there's such difference between India or Pak and Australia, England, etc at least not proportional to the overall pop difference.

 

[Ahsanax]

The example is quite relevant because many of the things have actually happened. For example the IRA did launch a massive bombing campaign in the uk. They nearly killed the PM and her whole cabinet. They attacked the royal family and destroyed the centre of Manchester. But nothing stopped. Everyone kept calm and carried on. Messages of support were sent from all ver the world and fellow allied countrys vowed never to let the terrorists win by stopping sporting contacts citing safety..

But in pakistan we recieved no support, only boycotts and villification because thats what they wanted. The powers that be wanted to destroy the country but failed and were left bewildered. You can sometimes hear it in the voices of the commentators (im not saying they were the ones who were left bewildered lol), the shock and awe when such a resiliant bunch of cricketers keep winning trophies!!

The resilience and never say die attitude, and ultimately success in the face of disaster makes Pakistan the greatest cricketing nation on the planet..

Hey guys it will be nice if we can stick to discussions of cricket only as we do have TIME PASS section in the forum and such type of discussion suits better there.

Thanks.

 

[the Great Khan]

Hey guys it will be nice if we can stick to discussions of cricket only as we do have TIME PASS section in the forum and such type of discussion suits better there.

Thanks.

Actually the post above is directly relevant to the topic. I was trying to show how resilient the team has been in the last few years thus elevating them to GOAT level..its not just about batting and bowling..its everything..

 

[Bhaijaan]

They did it again.

The best LOI team in the world.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Congrats [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] and all my proud nationalist Pakustani brothets out there.

It is a joy to watch bring their A game when it matters the most.

The greatest cricket nation ever.

 

[barah_admi]

Australia are the GOAT team across all formats and history but surely Pakistan are a close second?

They have the best test record of any Asian test side, one of the best ODI records overall and the best T20 record of all time. Add to that having produced more great cricketers than any nation, across formats bar possibly Australia and the argument only gets stronger.

i KNOW THIS WILL TRIGGER Indians but facts are facts.

 

[Sidilicious]

Australia are the GOAT team across all formats and history but surely Pakistan are a close second?

They have the best test record of any Asian test side, one of the best ODI records overall and the best T20 record of all time. Add to that having produced more great cricketers than any nation, across formats bar possibly Australia and the argument only gets stronger.

i KNOW THIS WILL TRIGGER Indians but facts are facts.

Pakistan are at 3. Other than 2 Australian teams, WI are the only side to have dominated the sport for a decade.

Won more WCs and T20 trophies than Pakistan and same number of CT. So better in ODI.

They also have such a strong record in tests, winning everywhere that you have to give the no.2 spot to WI. They are losing though, and they will slip in the next 5-10 years if they dont improve. Pakistan or SA, depending on the result of the next few years, will overtake them.

 

[barah_admi]

Pakistan are at 3. Other than 2 Australian teams, WI are the only side to have dominated the sport for a decade.

Won more WCs and T20 trophies than Pakistan and same number of CT. So better in ODI.

They also have such a strong record in tests, winning everywhere that you have to give the no.2 spot to WI. They are losing though, and they will slip in the next 5-10 years if they dont improve. Pakistan or SA, depending on the result of the next few years, will overtake them.

The Windies certainly had a golden period from the mid 70s till the early to mid 90s in tests, much shorter in ODIs and even shorter in T20s. Going back to test cricket, they were the 3rd best side roughly in the 50s and 60s but that success was a long, LONG time ago. They have not even approached being a top side in tests in 23 years. They have been a barely serviceable ODI side for 14 years and have not produced a single truly great cricketer in any of that time frame. No bowler, no batsman, no keeper.

Pakistan never had a golden period like the Windies in tests in the 80s but their consistency has stayed with them throughout most of their test history (used to be 3rd higher W/L ratio, SA may have overtaken them) and apart from 75, 79 and 83, Pakistan have had better international ODI tournaments (world cups and cts). Not to mention Pakistan have produced a great cricketer or 2 in almost every decade prior to this one (not complete yet and lots of great talent rising up now). The Windies have not produced a great since Lara/Gayle/Chanderpaul...even then there is only Lara has a true standout.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The Windies certainly had a golden period from the mid 70s till the early to mid 90s in tests, much shorter in ODIs and even shorter in T20s. Going back to test cricket, they were the 3rd best side roughly in the 50s and 60s but that success was a long, LONG time ago. They have not even approached being a top side in tests in 23 years. They have been a barely serviceable ODI side for 14 years and have not produced a single truly great cricketer in any of that time frame. No bowler, no batsman, no keeper.

Pakistan never had a golden period like the Windies in tests in the 80s but their consistency has stayed with them throughout most of their test history (used to be 3rd higher W/L ratio, SA may have overtaken them) and apart from 75, 79 and 83, Pakistan have had better international ODI tournaments (world cups and cts). Not to mention Pakistan have produced a great cricketer or 2 in almost every decade prior to this one (not complete yet and lots of great talent rising up now). The Windies have not produced a great since Lara/Gayle/Chanderpaul...even then there is only Lara has a true standout.

Pakistan's consistent run as among the top teams in the world has overtaken WI's 20 year run in ny opinion.

 

[AMSS]

Pakistan is indeed the greatest cricket playing nation ever.

Not dissimilar to how Mo Amir was the greatest left handed bowler during his years of banishment.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan has a cabinet full of silverware.

Oh ya, agree. If certain people are still jealous, this should shut them up.

 

[Sidilicious]

The Windies certainly had a golden period from the mid 70s till the early to mid 90s in tests, much shorter in ODIs and even shorter in T20s. Going back to test cricket, they were the 3rd best side roughly in the 50s and 60s but that success was a long, LONG time ago. They have not even approached being a top side in tests in 23 years. They have been a barely serviceable ODI side for 14 years and have not produced a single truly great cricketer in any of that time frame. No bowler, no batsman, no keeper.

Pakistan never had a golden period like the Windies in tests in the 80s but their consistency has stayed with them throughout most of their test history (used to be 3rd higher W/L ratio, SA may have overtaken them) and apart from 75, 79 and 83, Pakistan have had better international ODI tournaments (world cups and cts). Not to mention Pakistan have produced a great cricketer or 2 in almost every decade prior to this one (not complete yet and lots of great talent rising up now). The Windies have not produced a great since Lara/Gayle/Chanderpaul...even then there is only Lara has a true standout.

Pakistan has been more consistent, without a shadow of doubt. But they are yet to come close to the peaks that WI have done. When people talk about great teams, they talk about the 2 AUs teams and the WI teams. That legacy of WI is significant.

If you talk about consistency, then no team has been as consistent over theist 25 years as SA. But because they have not won the WC, they are significantly behind Pak in the LOIs. Winning a WC, is like hitting the pinnacle. Without that SA, can never be considered a great LOI team.

Compare Pakistan to WI, and its pretty similar. WI have an extra WC and an extra T20 cup. Despite the consistency from Pakistan, especially from 75-99, they are lagging behind WI. Same in tests. IIRC Pakistan is ahead in W/L ratio, ranked 4th, and WI ranked 5th. But because of what WI did in 70s 80s, they get the extra points.

Having said, if Pakistan wins another WC, and has some good series wins in SENA countries, they will overtake WI for me.

If SA manages to win a WC, they will overtake both Pak and WI for me.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan has been more consistent, without a shadow of doubt. But they are yet to come close to the peaks that WI have done. When people talk about great teams, they talk about the 2 AUs teams and the WI teams. That legacy of WI is significant.

If you talk about consistency, then no team has been as consistent over theist 25 years as SA. But because they have not won the WC, they are significantly behind Pak in the LOIs. Winning a WC, is like hitting the pinnacle. Without that SA, can never be considered a great LOI team.

Compare Pakistan to WI, and its pretty similar. WI have an extra WC and an extra T20 cup. Despite the consistency from Pakistan, especially from 75-99, they are lagging behind WI. Same in tests. IIRC Pakistan is ahead in W/L ratio, ranked 4th, and WI ranked 5th. But because of what WI did in 70s 80s, they get the extra points.

Having said, if Pakistan wins another WC, and has some good series wins in SENA countries, they will overtake WI for me.

If SA manages to win a WC, they will overtake both Pak and WI for me.

Cant compare RSA to Pakistan. South Africa has achieved notning compared to Pakistam despite all the resources they have.

 

[Slim]

I would say Australia, Windies and then comes Pakistan.

Australia is the GOAT cricketing nation.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Last few months have been tough for Pakistan. I am glad they pulled it back in T20s at least.

 

[Hawkeye]

Great great legacy.

Poor now.

A team that's loving and chest thumping over T20s. But getting horrible by the day in other formats.